DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Overly Serious]

Birds of Prey were always C-list to B-list tier. They were probably at their most popular during the 2000s when Simone was writing and you had Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress and Lady Blackhawk forming the core team. Post-Flashpoint said peak of popularity quickly faded and they are probably more accurately described as D-list at this point.

Sorry but I have to correct you here. The true peak of the Bird of Prey was in Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

The true peak of 84% of the DC Universe was in Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

fixed that for you

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

Sorry but I have to correct you here. The true peak of the Bird of Prey was in Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

Great show, probably the last hurrah of consistently good DC animated series.

 

[Overly Serious]

Great show, probably the last hurrah of consistently good DC animated series.

Young Justice was consistently good for two entire seasons. And then went off a cliff.

So, consistent for a while.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Young Justice was consistently good for two entire seasons. And then went off a cliff.

So, consistent for a while.

Great show, probably the last hurrah of consistently good DC animated series.

Justice League Action was the last consistently good one, yet gets heavily overlooked as CN sent it out to die. Always felt like a good return to Brave & The Bold.

 

[msd]

So I'm on episode 7 of the new batman, so far I like it.

Yeah, some of these race swaps are retarded, and for a series called the caped crusader, it seems to focus more on barb in alot of these episodes.

But it's good, the gordon swap is obviously a reference to the batman film, and it fits, he acts like his movie counterpart.

So while I got a few nitpicks, mainly the race swapping and unnecessary changes to gender, it's good.

I hope we see more onomatopoeia, harley, and clayface

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

saw a minute of New Batman with "Oswalda"
a) that's a really half-assed name, even if that's really the actual female form of Oswald that nobody uses
b) she's not voiced by Doris Grau. obviously Doris dying some thirty years ago puts a hamper on that but so far literally every line comes out better with me doing Doris Grau voice

 

[jspit2.0]

@Alexander Thaut

My problem is that we really need a halfway competent editor to just pick the runs and go with them.

Oh definitely. And Editors are far too often making political decisions rather than commercial ones.

I mean, even the Gail Simone Birds of Prey wouldn't be the worst idea. . .

Start with Dixon and you could have forty volumes.

I think DC's best Silver Age stuff's probably worthwhile. Otherwise the rest can be notable introductions and events compiled thematically. Like, the Zatanna Quest could be a fun single volume.

Some of it in other formats. But that's more like Marvel's epic line, which I'm a big fan of. Not that I don't have my gripes about how that line is managed.

Yeah I feel like if they really want to do that then they may as well make a Shonen Jump style magazine where they just have a mainline guaranteed draw headline the book and try out different ongoings to see what sticks. The issue is that the DEI crybabies won't like finding out that their shit does not sell.

Speaking of which, I'd bet that the Birds of Prey brand's probably a little damaged at this point. Maybe a Simone Birds of Prey run could be put into tankobon volumes. The BoP were a B-tier IP that got seriously screwed by the movie's mediocrity. At least Green Lantern's kind of an evergreen IP for DC that's usually A-list now. And yet somehow we wind up almost always reverted to Hal, John, Guy, Kyle, and Alan. Out of all the nu-lanterns, the only intriguing one is Jessica.

Well, they did actually. Those Wal-Mart magazines. There was a BoP 'Giant' with a brand new BoP story by Gail and....no one even remembered it. Because Gail didn't create or popularize BoP and the damage in large sense was the result of DC editorials misunderstanding.

You talk to the guys in the shop, what material sells? The 90s. The 80s. The 70s and the 60s do to, but those are more comic guys. Nobody is nostalgic for DCyou and very few for the Nu52. Gail is the problem. Start with the 90s, take Dixon's five years of material that could fill ten or more volumes and start there. Once you do Chuck, Terry Moore, and Gil Hernandez; Gail can do what she did originally coasting on other actual talents.

post-crisis Flash is interesting. I'd probably also throw in Perez Wonder Woman if we have to pick a run.

TBH I'd also put down Young Justice as the original run was pretty coherent.

I feel like Perez's Wondy really trails off after he stops drawing it? Don't remember.

Yes to YJ, double yes to Karl Kessel Superboy, Impulse, and Robin.

What do you think about making long tankbon series about some events and tie-ins? Like the Imperiex Worlds at War one was pretty big and it's just a big messy heroic story that wouldn't be halfway bad. It's got big ups and downs for all the iconic heroes. It's all a big disaster event and the atmosphere is ultimately a big rally for everyone to come together.

I'd say collapse into a series called Superman 2K, with Volume 1 being Jeph and Joe picking up Superman and Action (as well as any necessary issues from the other two.). Fold Imperiex, Lex 2000, and Emperor Joker all into that.

It's probably a better pick than some DEI horsewash.

Bat books are usually a safe bet tbh. Not so sure about Wonder Woman.

If DC really wants to push some heroines to be more prominent, why not Zatanna or Black Canary? Zee is just right there and has a great backstory. She's got a lot of potential and is treated as a major power within the DCU's heroes.

Different people have tried. Scott Snyder REALLY pushed Harper Row for years getting more pathetic with every attempt. Punchline, same story. Then there are others. DC pushed Batlesbian like nothing else. JH Williams? Why the fuck would you put someone like him on that character for a decade? Notice once he wasn't drawing her shit, the books didn't sell?

They've tried with Black Canary but they insist she has to be written by a woman/DEI now, so that was DOA because there isn't a woman in comics today who has the talent to pull that off except maybe Amanda Conner and she sure as fuck isn't gonna draw a monthly for three or four years while her and her husband are tard wrangled.

Paul Dini has been pushing Zatanna for years. He put out a Vertigo one shot with unnecessary buggery in it. It's good except for that. He shoe horned Z into his 'Tec run which is pretty damn good. Then he managed to get an awesome ongoing that kindof got murdered by Dan Didio. Finally, he wrote a hard book teaming her with BC. IT's all solid material and....none of it seems to have drawn any attention?

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Different people have tried. Scott Snyder REALLY pushed Harper Row for years getting more pathetic with every attempt. Punchline, same story. Then there are others. DC pushed Batlesbian like nothing else. JH Williams? Why the fuck would you put someone like him on that character for a decade? Notice once he wasn't drawing her shit, the books didn't sell?

I don't even remember Harper Row. I vaguely remember Kathy Kane Batwoman in 52 and Final Crisis. She's best as a team book character tbh.

They've tried with Black Canary but they insist she has to be written by a woman/DEI now, so that was DOA because there isn't a woman in comics today who has the talent to pull that off except maybe Amanda Conner and she sure as fuck isn't gonna draw a monthly for three or four years while her and her husband are tard wrangled.

At this point I just say we get competent writers to ghostwrite under female/DEI names.

Paul Dini has been pushing Zatanna for years. He put out a Vertigo one shot with unnecessary buggery in it. It's good except for that. He shoe horned Z into his 'Tec run which is pretty damn good. Then he managed to get an awesome ongoing that kindof got murdered by Dan Didio. Finally, he wrote a hard book teaming her with BC. IT's all solid material and....none of it seems to have drawn any attention?

I feel like we might have gotten away with pushing her to the A-list back during the height of the DCAU but it ain't gonna work now.

Hawkgirl also had a shot with the DCAU but rip.

Aside from that, they tried Vixen too. That didn't work. I like the character, but the issue is just that these retards don't know how to market niche characters. Flash and Green Arrow were recognizable names. Supergirl? Recognizable. Batwoman? Recognizable.

The CW kept trying to force spinoffs with C and D listers but never got the right focus outside of Legends of Tomorrow.

Well, they did actually. Those Wal-Mart magazines. There was a BoP 'Giant' with a brand new BoP story by Gail and....no one even remembered it. Because Gail didn't create or popularize BoP and the damage in large sense was the result of DC editorials misunderstanding.

You talk to the guys in the shop, what material sells? The 90s. The 80s. The 70s and the 60s do to, but those are more comic guys. Nobody is nostalgic for DCyou and very few for the Nu52. Gail is the problem. Start with the 90s, take Dixon's five years of material that could fill ten or more volumes and start there. Once you do Chuck, Terry Moore, and Gil Hernandez; Gail can do what she did originally coasting on other actual talents.

I keep thinking Simone created the BoP. Weird.


You know who could probably sell if handled properly? Fire and Ice. Just give them a fun semi-serious '80s style adventure with bantering and fun comedic scenarios. Throw in Rocket Red, Booster and Beetle, Gnort, Guy, and others for different issues.

Fuck, give us classic Maxwell Lord. Imagine how fun you could play him up now.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Vixen had the added problem of DC stealing "borrowing" her entire skill set from Filmation's Brave Starr.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Vixen had the added problem of DC stealing "borrowing" her entire skill set from Filmation's Brave Starr.

she debuted in the early 80s, Brave Starr came out in the late 80s. She was actively used in the JLA comics through the 80s. Dunno where you're getting this from.

 

[el bandito loco]

Marvel did the manga tankobon thing in the early 2000s. somewhere either at my parents' house (or my sister's because I probably gave them to her when she was a teenager) I had most of if not all of Tom DeFalco's Spider-Girl from MC2 in manga sized volumes. and even in 2005 or whatever I was like wow this is a smart way to collect these, but to my knowledge they didn't release any other series like that. it just makes sense for highly serialized comics. cheap volumes, high page count. if DC and Marvel weren't retarded they would have released volumes like this of their heavy hitters for the last 20 years. releasing mini series like this is kind of retarded, I wouldn't want to read a tiny version of watchmen or kingdom come. I wouldn't be able to read the text worth a fuck on the former, and the art would look like shit on the latter. this should be their budget option for long popular runs or collecting forgotten runs on big characters.

the compendium volumes are the best thing they got going on right now and I can't believe it took these retards until like 2 years ago to think, what if we collect all this shit people have been asking for for years in giant paperbacks for $50 for 50 issues? I think I have bought literally every one they have put out besides Y the Last Man because I have the omnibus. I'm hoping Robin, Nightwing, Batman Beyond, Kyle Rayner & JSA sell well so they keep putting shit like that out there. if they won't do the Superman triangle titles like that I'd take Steel, Superboy, 90s Matrix Supergirl, Birds of Prey, Azrael, Catwoman, Batgirl, all those ancillary Supes and Bat books. they should go back and redo those Batman Caped Crusader and Dark Knight Detective volumes like that too, get all the post crisis bat shit up to knightfall out there in those big cheap books. the build quality isn't the best but they're like 1400 pages you know what you're getting and not to fuck around with it when you read it.

 

[jspit2.0]

Birds of Prey were always C-list to B-list tier.

DC comics management in the 90s didn't think an all girl team book would sell. The editor (Jordan Gorfinkel Male Jew), came up with a general concept using Babs and Dinah. He got Dixon, who was the exemplar of work for hire writer and marketable to do a giant one shot with Gary Frank I wanna say in 96. It was perfect, developed a cult following, and sold solidly.

Then they spent two years putting out these one shots and minis, all doing well despite Frank not drawing the series. Finally in '99, they had done enough that the characters were given a monthly

They were probably at their most popular during the 2000s when Simone was writing and you had Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress and Lady Blackhawk forming the core team. Post-Flashpoint said peak of popularity quickly faded and they are probably more accurately described as D-list at this point.

No. Gail does this all the time. Her fans were LOUD, online. it's the twenty people with a bullhorn versus thousands of people who buy the book and never say a word. BoP was successful and Gail came in after Chuck and company made it happen. Also having Ed Benes didn't hurt. But try having that series with Ed Benes and a male writer and Gail would have accused the book of sexism. Which is how she got the gig in the first place...

As for today? BoP doesn't WORK because the characters don't exist in current day DC and yes, Gail et al damaged the brand. Babs isn't crippled. She's Batgirl. BoP was her as oracle running a team of women as field operatives.

Young Justice was consistently good for two entire seasons. And then went off a cliff.

So, consistent for a while.

Don't remind me. Loved those first two, then they brought it back. What they did to my Outsiders man.

 

[Commander X]

There were a few interesting ideas in Caped Crusader, the anachronistic diversity was the least of it's problems, (though it leads to some unintentionally interesting bits, like how Detective Flass, who in the Batman: Year One series was a corrupt, racist officer partnered with rookie Jim Gordon, is now a black guy) and there were bits like Catwoman being portrayed as a spoiled brat socialite stealing to keep herself in luxury - interesting in that Ed Brubaker is co-credited with that story seeing as how his Catwoman cemented the take that she's a gal from the bad part of town with a dark and tragic past.

The direction for Caped Crusader needed to be better, it lacks any sort of urgency, zip, energy, anything. It wasn't the flaming disaster I thought it would be, but it has plenty of issues.

Missed opportunity though, was including Floyd Lawton for a bit and but not having him wear a tuxedo, domino mask and top hat. Let's see something like this Deadshot in Season 2, maybe, come on, people. I do so enjoy that time when you could just put on a domino mask and bam, there's your costume. It's almost as great as that time in comics when you'd have supervillains show up sometimes where their costume was just a bespoke business suit and a big cape.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Bat books are usually a safe bet tbh. Not so sure about Wonder Woman.

If DC really wants to push some heroines to be more prominent, why not Zatanna or Black Canary? Zee is just right there and has a great backstory. She's got a lot of potential and is treated as a major power within the DCU's heroes.

DC could easily push more heroines, hell, I would claim they have a significantly better shot than Marvel at doing so. The problem is DC not getting itself together, alongside the mass dick riding of Batman.

Speaking of the female heroes individually:

1. Zatanna barely gets screen time in outside media, and whenever she does, she is nothing more than a side piece. Pretty much every adaptation needs to connect her to Batman, who then usurps her within her own narrative. If it isn't Batchad, then you can bet John Constantine will be right there to be the main lead. The main exception, and most popular adaptation of Zee, would be Young Justice. YJ did a lot to make both her and Zatarra relevant and whenever normie fans talk about Zatanna, especially women, it is almost always this version. People hate YJ for aging her down, but I think, making her a teen and having her dad play such a big role really gave Zee a lot of emotional moments and growth. Would be cool with this change sticking TBH.
2. Black Canary has the same deal as Zee. Batchad always takes priority, otherwise it is Green Arrow or Harley Quinn. Her biggest chance to shine would have been Arrow, but usual CW teen drama kept her and Ollie's relationship from being good. Injustice 2 is pretty much the only good modern take, sadly.
3. Wonder Woman has been a horribly mismanaged brand since the death of her creator and most adaptations have not helped in really building any identity for her. The DCAU struggled to make her worth anything due to leaning too hard into generic warrior girl, while adaptations like Flashpoint go even further to make her a turbo-bitch. A lot of her potential is crushed by the constant need to make her some no-fun warrior, alongside adaptations not utilizing her cast well, specifically Steve and the Wonder Girls. Personally, if they made WW more like B&B, JLA, Multiversus, or even DCSHG, I think more people would like her.

I feel like we might have gotten away with pushing her to the A-list back during the height of the DCAU but it ain't gonna work now.

Hawkgirl also had a shot with the DCAU but rip.

Aside from that, they tried Vixen too. That didn't work. I like the character, but the issue is just that these retards don't know how to market niche characters. Flash and Green Arrow were recognizable names. Supergirl? Recognizable. Batwoman? Recognizable.

The CW kept trying to force spinoffs with C and D listers but never got the right focus outside of Legends of Tomorrow.

Continuing the list, Hawkgirl seemed to be the most liked JL female member, but DC never did anything with her post-DCAU, at least, not in any multi-media. Vixen was one they really tried to push throughout the 00s and CW era, but she was always relegated to niche projects.

Different people have tried. Scott Snyder REALLY pushed Harper Row for years getting more pathetic with every attempt. Punchline, same story. Then there are others. DC pushed Batlesbian like nothing else. JH Williams? Why the fuck would you put someone like him on that character for a decade? Notice once he wasn't drawing her shit, the books didn't sell?

They've tried with Black Canary but they insist she has to be written by a woman/DEI now, so that was DOA because there isn't a woman in comics today who has the talent to pull that off except maybe Amanda Conner and she sure as fuck isn't gonna draw a monthly for three or four years while her and her husband are tard wrangled.

Paul Dini has been pushing Zatanna for years. He put out a Vertigo one shot with unnecessary buggery in it. It's good except for that. He shoe horned Z into his 'Tec run which is pretty damn good. Then he managed to get an awesome ongoing that kindof got murdered by Dan Didio. Finally, he wrote a hard book teaming her with BC. IT's all solid material and....none of it seems to have drawn any attention?

The sad part about DC is that many of their animated series popularized their female characters, yet they cannot for the life of them mimic it in comics.

Teen Titans and Young Justice should really be seen as case studies in terms of popularizing female heroes. Starfire and Raven became massively popular after the animated series to the point of becoming the ultimate icons for millennial/zoomer women. Artemis from YJ seemed to follow pretty closely, alongside Zatanna.

Making the female character young (pretty, but not explicitly sexy - see OG Starfire), full of personality and with fun relationship prospects seems to net DC a lot of fans. Most of the heroines listed above really miss out on these aspects. If I ask my sister why she likes the characters listed, it is mostly because of ship appeal. She likes Artemis and Wally, Dick and Zatanna, Dick and Starfire, Dick and Barbara, and Raven and Damian. By contrast, she hates WW for being boring and doesn't care for Black Canary as the CW and post-YJ animations she watches don't have them do anything other than be strong women.

 

[Still Exceptional]

I'm still mad that we'll probably never get a decent series about The Question.

I loved the DCAU version of him because they somehow managed to blend the original version of him as written by his creator Steve Ditko of being an objectivist with the version of him being a paranoid conspiracy schizo so well. And being voiced by Jeffrey Combs was just chef's fucking kiss.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

DC could easily push more heroines, hell, I would claim they have a significantly better shot than Marvel at doing so. The problem is DC not getting itself together, alongside the mass dick riding of Batman.

Speaking of the female heroes individually:

1. Zatanna barely gets screen time in outside media, and whenever she does, she is nothing more than a side piece. Pretty much every adaptation needs to connect her to Batman, who then usurps her within her own narrative. If it isn't Batchad, then you can bet John Constantine will be right there to be the main lead. The main exception, and most popular adaptation of Zee, would be Young Justice. YJ did a lot to make both her and Zatarra relevant and whenever normie fans talk about Zatanna, especially women, it is almost always this version. People hate YJ for aging her down, but I think, making her a teen and having her dad play such a big role really gave Zee a lot of emotional moments and growth. Would be cool with this change sticking TBH.
2. Black Canary has the same deal as Zee. Batchad always takes priority, otherwise it is Green Arrow or Harley Quinn. Her biggest chance to shine would have been Arrow, but usual CW teen drama kept her and Ollie's relationship from being good. Injustice 2 is pretty much the only good modern take, sadly.
3. Wonder Woman has been a horribly mismanaged brand since the death of her creator and most adaptations have not helped in really building any identity for her. The DCAU struggled to make her worth anything due to leaning too hard into generic warrior girl, while adaptations like Flashpoint go even further to make her a turbo-bitch. A lot of her potential is crushed by the constant need to make her some no-fun warrior, alongside adaptations not utilizing her cast well, specifically Steve and the Wonder Girls. Personally, if they made WW more like B&B, JLA, Multiversus, or even DCSHG, I think more people would like her.

This is a really simple fix.

Turn Wondy into a sword and sorcery type hero. Don't have to make her generic warrior girl. Mix in some humor.

Black Canary should really be written as Oliver Queen's Foil in personality. It works.

I agree that Zee gets screwed by the need to anchor her to Batman/Constantine and it leads to people just thinking she's a sidekick or something and not capable of being a mainline hero. I agree that she could 100% work as a young hero that grows up. It works.

Continuing the list, Hawkgirl seemed to be the most liked JL female member, but DC never did anything with her post-DCAU, at least, not in any multi-media. Vixen was one they really tried to push throughout the 00s and CW era, but she was always relegated to niche projects.

Hawkgirl and Wondy were really kinda both women warriors in the DCAU but I wish they played off that dynamic better.

The sad part about DC is that many of their animated series popularized their female characters, yet they cannot for the life of them mimic it in comics.

Teen Titans and Young Justice should really be seen as case studies in terms of popularizing female heroes. Starfire and Raven became massively popular after the animated series to the point of becoming the ultimate icons for millennial/zoomer women. Artemis from YJ seemed to follow pretty closely, alongside Zatanna.

Making the female character young (pretty, but not explicitly sexy - see OG Starfire), full of personality and with fun relationship prospects seems to net DC a lot of fans. Most of the heroines listed above really miss out on these aspects. If I ask my sister why she likes the characters listed, it is mostly because of ship appeal. She likes Artemis and Wally, Dick and Zatanna, Dick and Starfire, Dick and Barbara, and Raven and Damian. By contrast, she hates WW for being boring and doesn't care for Black Canary as the CW and post-YJ animations she watches don't have them do anything other than be strong women.

Starfire/Raven were always full of major potential since their debut. That Titans team was iconic. Dunno about Artemis per se. Ms. Martian seemed to get more elevated due to the show and her tie to J'onn.

I think Dinah and Ollie's relationship in the CW show was idiotically handled because they could have milked it. Hell, return to form and some good focus would work. JLI Dinah/Ollie only had like 3 episodes of focus. It was good.


Diana should be running around in sword and sorcery adventures in the DCU. It works. Have her constantly fight big monsters and evil sorcerers and whatnot. Have her love interest, when it's not Steve, be different "worthy" DC heroes. It could be interesting seeing how they stack up to her values. You also get the whole relationship aspect via feedback from fans. Did they like Diana's little romance with Ted Grant or whatever other classic single hero it is? Etc. Have her be larger than life and full of personality. Like a brawny and lively woman full of grace and old fashioned honor at her core.


It could be done.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Dunno about Artemis per se. Ms. Martian seemed to get more elevated due to the show and her tie to J'onn.

From what I recall, Artemis was the most popular character in the YJ cartoon besides maybe Dick. Definitely considered the best female character in the series overall. The series completely reinvented her from some D-list Arrow/Hawk villain into a major cast member with a load of character depth/progression. The main issue with her is the comics didn't use her afterwards, only placing her in the comics to die within one issue.

Ms. Martian is usually labeled as the least popular of the main group, even if she is clearly the writer's pet. The constant horrible deeds, then series acting as if she is innocent, really ticks fans off..

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

Spoiler: Ramblings on what should be Wonder Woman's personality and related aspects.

Whatever kind of adventures Wondy's written in - I have my own ideas but she can do a lot of different ones to her credit - I think the key is to figure out her baseline personality. This is especially important in the context of fellow JL founding members to contrast against.

And IMO, she should, as a demigoddess? Be the serene, nigh-unflappable one.

Like, Batman's "stoic" and you can stretch that from '66 humor to TDKR grit as need be, but they both share that baseline stoicism! Hal Jordan's consistently portrayed as a klutzy jock, Aquaman since Brave and the Bold is a boisterous bruiser (and is fantastic at it), Barry Allen is nowadays portrayed as an amicable nerd (and to contrast against the "classic" speedster persona Wally West has and created). And thankfully, people are slowly realizing Superman SHOULD have a personality and more and more, it feels like they're deciding he should be the ultimate cocksure but friendly bro-tier dude. I hate to reference All-Might in this case but that sheer unflappable confidence and friendliness he has, that turns into "pissed off at evil's shit" when the gauntlet is thrown down, is exactly what Superman should be. Supes started the Age of Heroes both in DC AND real life, and did so with that very personality.

Thus to reflect her seeming perfection against mere mortals and contrast against fellow Leaguers... Diana should seemingly be ever-calm and soothing. Of course she won't be that 24/7, that's boring! But she should have a sort-of "seen it all" or "unimpressed/unintimidated" viewpoint at regular supervillain or cosmic threat alike. She's supposed to be all-loving, and a serene persona lets that shine through - indeed, I can see her being rather more witty in lighter moments, saying something subtle or funny and only giving a small smile and eyebrow cock once the recipient gets it. Conversely, even her more hotblooded moments should see her still seemingly in total control of her emotions. "Serene" doesn't quite make sense if you know how Greek gods really were, but as she's a modern American creation? Fuck, she not only gets a pass she can explicitly contrast against them if you wanna bring them in for a story arc.

This plays into her fighting style. Ditch the goddamn sword and shield forever and return the Lasso of Truth as her main weapon. Diana should be whipping that thing around like crazy and being acrobatic with it in a larger than life manner. Visually and action-wise, it would make her genuinely distinctive like Cap is with his shield or Spidey with his web-slinging acrobatics, a much-needed "wholly her own" aspect. It would also buttress that she's a warrior, perhaps indeed THE skilled fighter of the League if everyone was 1:1 in strength - since Batman is the smart one and Supes the strong one, let Wondy be THE warrior. Yet like Cap, she's using a weapon that isn't explicitly meant to kill but meant to restrain and force a cool-down the way Cap's shield is technically meant to defend.

Basic Blond Boy is right that WW's been mismanaged since... well, her creator's death as he said. IMO a large part of it is a lack of definitive personality for her as much as iconic story arcs. Superman suffered a ton of the same when he lost not just a lot of his continuity Post-Crisis but also became too much SuperDad in personality, and thus, boring. Meanwhile, Batman kept his baseline persona even during the Post-Crisis upheaval and such a strong identifiable persona helped him claw his way to the top of comics sales outside endless Bat-media adaptions.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

This plays into her fighting style. Ditch the goddamn sword and shield forever and return the Lasso of Truth as her main weapon. Diana should be whipping that thing around like crazy and being acrobatic with it in a larger than life manner. Visually and action-wise, it would make her genuinely distinctive like Cap is with his shield or Spidey with his web-slinging acrobatics, a much-needed "wholly her own" aspect. It would also buttress that she's a warrior, perhaps indeed THE skilled fighter of the League if everyone was 1:1 in strength - since Batman is the smart one and Supes the strong one, let Wondy be THE warrior. Yet like Cap, she's using a weapon that isn't explicitly meant to kill but meant to restrain and force a cool-down the way Cap's shield is technically meant to defend.

tactical kung fu rope hand mode