Welfare, discipline, and individualism - to all others living in poverty despite being hard workers... and then the others.

[conodont]

I'd like to preface this by stating that I live in a country (Ethiopia) with a welfare system. I'm not on this welfare system (and only around 7% of people are, despite most Ethiopians living in poverty), but it pretty much just creates a safety net and allows people to get jobs. Admittedly, it doesn't work very well, but it's better than nothing.

However, the welfare system in countries like the United States is... much worse, to say the least. I've heard that people who do nothing but just have some sort of supposed disability make $800 / ETB 90,000 per month. In comparison, the average worker in Dire Dawa makes ETB 6,000 / $55 per month. These are people who are working their asses off on a legitimate job, and they make less per year than a (disabled) loser who sits at home all day in 1 month. In comparison, my monthly salary is ETB 15,000 / $140. I'm a doctor. I went to medical school for 8 years. I see people dying. It's a miracle I don't have severe PTSD. I make 1/6th of what a loser in America makes doing nothing. While it is true that most things are cheaper here (I've never had a problem buying food or paying taxes), foreign goods, such as electronics, are not. I bought this laptop for around ETB 60,000 / $550. This is 1/3 of my yearly income. For a fucking laptop that will probably break before 2030. Even for the men at the top, ETB 30,000 / $275 per month is roughly the limit. This is 1/3 of what someone living off of welfare in the US gets.

There are some people in the US who do deserve welfare payments. People with extremely severe disabilities where they require a caretaker not to hurt themselves. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, this is probably less than 10% of people who are receiving welfare payments for disabilities. I decided to go to my favourite website, Reddit, and then to my favourite subreddits, such as r/disability and r/antiwork (for the autists reading, that last sentence was sarcasm!!!!!). I almost immediately found a post from someone who claims to have "moderate autism" and "PTSD", as well as "physical health issues". I'd say that there was a 90% chance that they faked those for a diagnosis. Even the beyond shitty US welfare service realized something was up, and fortunately rejected them. As a result, this... remarkable individual decided to whine about it on Reddit, and revealed that they were working a job. Disability welfare is intended for people who can't work a job.

While the system might have worked for that guy, I unfortunately found a post from this other douchebag who claimed to be receiving $900 / ETB 100,000 per month from welfare payments. They complained that this wasn't enough to pay for rent and taxes, and that they were living with their sister. Unsurprisingly, this person's disability was FUCKING BACK PAIN, which I always assumed was just a regular part of the human condition, but I guess it isn't. They had a net worth of $15,000 / ETB 1,600,000, which is more money than I and most Ethiopians will ever see together in their whole lives.

There's also Section 8 housing, which I don't feel like getting into. Needless to say, it offers some pretty decent suburban homes to my knowledge, while a significant portion of Ethiopia's population is living in dirt huts. Guess which one is inhabited by NEETs.


But... why does this all happen? Why do these people exist? It's too low discipline and too high individualism. Americans go to church for 1 hour on Sunday, compared to the 4 hours of church in Ethiopia. Unlike Ethiopians, Americans don't have to worry about nuns beating the shit out of them. Americans don't fast for 180 days of a year, but Ethiopians do. This lack of discipline and excess of individualism creates the idea that any difference is good, including things such as not following the rules or being lazy, which creates deviants. These deviants are pampered through middle and high school, and think they can just be NEETs forever. It's even worse when the system supports them and proves them right. These American people cannot handle their very small church responsibilities, and become atheists. This gives them a feeling of superiority but also oppression. Then they troon out. They don't get a job since they don't need a job. And that is what creates the large portion of lazy, self-absorbed, transsexual Americans incapable of guilt or self-reflection. The number is only going to go up in the future.

 

[NerdShamer]

But... why does this all happen?

Basically, an lot of shit is going on. Housing is overpriced, people aren't making enough, boomer politicians insists on raising the minimum wage when it's been proven that it barely solves anything, immigrants stealing our jobs/money/housing. The list goes on, but if you want an actual example of where we'll be in a.few.decades, just look at how the UK is slowly falling apart.

 

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

But... why does this all happen? Why do these people exist? It's too low discipline and too high individualism. Americans go to church for 1 hour on Sunday, compared to the 4 hours of church in Ethiopia. Unlike Ethiopians, Americans don't have to worry about nuns beating the shit out of them. Americans don't fast for 180 days of a year, but Ethiopians do.

If this was true, Ethiopia wouldn't be a shithole country. It would be a global superpower. As it stands, Ethiopia's GDP is $128 billion, or roughly equal to the GDP of New Mexico. You also seem to have confused "fasting" with "starving."

 

[Trump's Chosen]

But... why does this all happen? Why do these people exist?

Because once you subsidize substistance, you eliminate darwin.

 

[Colloid]

But... why does this all happen? Why do these people exist?

Because the US has been rich enough for so long that they can afford to sustain a demographic of neets who don't pull their own weight. The US is better off than Ethiopia even on a basic geographical level because it has more of every resource that Ethiopia could ever hope to have. Welfare is actually a relatively new thing in the US that didn't start until the 1930's with the social security and housing acts. The evil thing about welfare though is that when it's too effective it just teaches a demographic of people to be dependent on the feds and to want for nothing like you mentioned where,

This gives them a feeling of superiority but also oppression.

They think they can be neets forever because they can, in theory, so long as the welfare system holds.

 

[Otterly]

Well, this is why you can’t have welfare and open borders.
Don’t think everything’s better here though. We have had our society fractured and frankly an army of nuns whipping us into shape sister assumpta style might be helpful. If you live somewhere with cohesive community, you have a form of wealth we don’t.

 

[Butterschmalz]

This gives them a feeling of superiority but also oppression.

I m all for bashing Americans, but this is a funny way to do it. So are they oppressors or the ones being oppressed? Why exactly are they "trooning" out? Because they want to or because they have to?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

But... why does this all happen?

I'd start with the 50% literacy rate. But your post really encapsulates the mental issues that prevents third world countries from becoming modern.

You live under the Marxist notion that the amount of labour deserves its reward. This is retarded, a professional chef and amateur cook using the same ingredients will not have the same result and the result of how much people will pay for each is not the same.

You can argue discipline all you want. Unless the country goes all in on education you will never advance.

You also do the marxist act of acting as if welfare money comes out of the ether rather than through the money of other people.

Finally, the post itself is just bitching how you want to be the NEET living off welfare, that is also a common sin of third worlders - wanting the easy way to a comfy life.

Tl;dr: You need to actually work for the future rather than just hope for a quick fix.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

What point are you trying to make, that Americans are degenerate?

The atheism isn't so much about church responsibilities, it's about the fact everyone in the US lives among a bunch of strangers with no community involvement, more so the more urban an area is. You guys probably go to church with all your little mud hut buddies, it's not like any of you can afford to move or would have jobs to move for and nobody else wants to live in your country so multiculturalism isn't an issue.

That exacerbates the problem with deviants too. Not only are there fewer rewards for discipline and self control, but there are fewer social consequences as well. In a saner time if you were taking off the public dole unnecessarily your neighbors would all look down on you, but nobody actually interacts with their neighbors anymore so even if they knew it would barely matter.

To be fair though, I really don't like disability either. It's overly cushy and usually once someone gets in the system they wind up becoming a career welfare leech (especially since if they try to work it will reduce their disability payments), often using their free time to be menaces to society.
There's a reason that for the longest time DDOS attacks on Kiwi Farms would happen at the beginning of the month when government checks come in.

Anyways sorry about you living in Ethiopia and being black and angry or w/e. That has to be challenging.

 

[conodont]

Basically, an lot of shit is going on. Housing is overpriced, people aren't making enough, boomer politicians insists on raising the minimum wage when it's been proven that it barely solves anything, immigrants stealing our jobs/money/housing. The list goes on, but if you want an actual example of where we'll be in a.few.decades, just look at how the UK is slowly falling apart.

This is true, but I'm moreso focusing on the cultural issues that the United States has.

If this was true, Ethiopia wouldn't be a shithole country. It would be a global superpower. As it stands, Ethiopia's GDP is $128 billion, or roughly equal to the GDP of New Mexico. You also seem to have confused "fasting" with "starving."

You seem to have forgotten about ethnic conflicts and the Derg. There's more aspects to it than discipline and individualism.

I m all for bashing Americans, but this is a funny way to do it. So are they oppressors or the ones being oppressed? Why exactly are they "trooning" out? Because they want to or because they have to?

They're not being oppressed but neither are they oppressors. They troon out because they can, and American culture encourages it.

I'd start with the 50% literacy rate. But your post really encapsulates the mental issues that prevents third world countries from becoming modern.

You live under the Marxist notion that the amount of labour deserves its reward. This is retarded, a professional chef and amateur cook using the same ingredients will not have the same result and the result of how much people will pay for each is not the same.

You can argue discipline all you want. Unless the country goes all in on education you will never advance.

You also do the marxist act of acting as if welfare money comes out of the ether rather than through the money of other people.

Finally, the post itself is just bitching how you want to be the NEET living off welfare, that is also a common sin of third worlders - wanting the easy way to a comfy life.

Tl;dr: You need to actually work for the future rather than just hope for a quick fix.

50% literacy rate has nothing to do with cultural problems. At the same time, my post quite clearly stated that useful jobs such as doctors should be paid more than dumbasses doing bare minimum work. And where did I say that welfare money just comes out of thin air? At the same time, I like working a job. I don't want to be the NEET living off of welfare, but maybe you are the NEET living off of welfare considering that when I posted this it was midday in the United States. I work for a better future, but I can't do too much because I'm fucking broke and there's no way out of this hell. If you were in my position, you would probably kill yourself in a week.

What point are you trying to make, that Americans are degenerate?

The atheism isn't so much about church responsibilities, it's about the fact everyone in the US lives among a bunch of strangers with no community involvement, more so the more urban an area is. You guys probably go to church with all your little mud hut buddies, it's not like any of you can afford to move or would have jobs to move for and nobody else wants to live in your country so multiculturalism isn't an issue.

That exacerbates the problem with deviants too. Not only are there fewer rewards for discipline and self control, but there are fewer social consequences as well. In a saner time if you were taking off the public dole unnecessarily your neighbors would all look down on you, but nobody actually interacts with their neighbors anymore so even if they knew it would barely matter.

To be fair though, I really don't like disability either. It's overly cushy and usually once someone gets in the system they wind up becoming a career welfare leech (especially since if they try to work it will reduce their disability payments), often using their free time to be menaces to society.
There's a reason that for the longest time DDOS attacks on Kiwi Farms would happen at the beginning of the month when government checks come in.

Anyways sorry about you living in Ethiopia and being black and angry or w/e. That has to be challenging.

The average American is not a degenerate, but I'm saying that American society cultivates degenerates. At the same time, multiculturalism is a gigantic problem in Ethiopia, the country is being torn apart by ethnic conflicts. I do agree with your other points, however.

 

[NerdShamer]

This is true, but I'm moreso focusing on the cultural issues that the United States has.

Culturally, it's our take on the concept of charity and doing the American thing of throwing money at it until they stops complaining about it. But this isn't really exclusive to the states, since an lot of other places hands out money like candy for being an single mom with kids from multiple dads or just being out of work for an certain period of time.

But the main problem keeps coming back to politics and economics, unfortunately: People are blindly believing that's enough room for the third-worlders when there's actually isn't. Just being an wagie stopped being sustainable, several decades ago; and thanks to the socialist awakening that we're going through, we also hate those who are essentially self-made

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

I'm all for ironically shitting on Anglos and especially the USA, but are you actually informed enough about their culture to judge it so harshly and seemingly seriously? You're a third worlder whose knowledge of the US probably comes solely from the Internet.

In my experience, even the worst excesses of tranny degeneracy pale in comparison to the alcoholism, pathology and drug addiction found in third world villages which is then exported worldwide through migration. I'd like to remind you that it's often the third world migrants who have the worst life outcomes in the "degenerate" first world despite your supposed discipline and religiosity.

Edit: Also, 50% literacy is absolutely a cultural problem. Even the Democratic Republic of Kongo has an 80% literacy rate for God's sake. Read nigga.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

50% literacy rate has nothing to do with cultural problems.

Absolute lol, "why are my countrymen idiots who just live in the moment?" Can't possibly be connected to them bot being able to acquire new ideas". With such low literacy rate you basically completely lock down social mobility and entirely dependent on elites.

I don't want to be the NEET living off of welfare, but maybe you are the NEET living off of welfare considering that when I posted this it was midday in the United States. I work for a better future, but I can't do too much because I'm fucking broke and there's no way out of this hell. If you were in my position, you would probably kill yourself in a week.

I've been in the army and currently work in hitech after studying for it for years, you know, with books.

 

[RandomTwitterGuy]

Freedom is living in a place where you have options.

Are there people who don't pull their fair share? Yeah. However, as a society, it is important to create the ability for the lowest of the low to build themselves up.
I know people who are lazy fucks who are rotting away taking advantage of the system, and I know more who, after falling on hard times, built themself up again because there was a safety net. Ultimately, one needs a system where someone from the poorest of the poor can get the best education possible with his work, and someone older can reeducate themself.

 

[Farsided]

Did you specialize in the glutes ? You sounds butthurt.

At the same time, multiculturalism is a gigantic problem in Ethiopia

You're a bigot as well. Multiculturalism™ a strength

@Biden's Chosen put it best. It subsidizes failure.
If anyone is to be mad about the situation, it's western tax payers that fund the gravy train that allows both foreign aid and welfare to continue.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

It's too low discipline and too high individualism. Americans go to church for 1 hour on Sunday, compared to the 4 hours of church in Ethiopia. Unlike Ethiopians, Americans don't have to worry about nuns beating the shit out of them. Americans don't fast for 180 days of a year, but Ethiopians do. This lack of discipline and excess of individualism creates the idea that any difference is good, including things such as not following the rules or being lazy, which creates deviants.

You know, I've never had a chance to ask this question of an educated ethiopian before. When I was there I saw villagers throw rocks at a dog and its puppies. They seemed to think this was a lot of fun, and surprised the group of westerners I was in did not find this funny and enjoyable. Do you have any insight about this cultural difference?

 

[republicanchink]

I am not going to restate the obviously arguments against the welfare state in economic literature; which is not just theory, but very obviously has played out in the real world. We need disability for people that actually need it. The people that are born with a bad genetic inheritance. I have seen my whole family get destroyed by American Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare so I do have some bias in this respect, and will not use my personal horrible experiences with these programs in my argument. I have done much research into countries that consider themselves to be "democratic socialist". Namely Germany, due to a paper I wrote in college awhile back while getting my economics degree. They are the biggest socialist welfare state in terms of population, and one of the biggest economies in europe and the world so I find that to be a good example. In Germany, the average worker makes around 41,000 EUR per year, and 33% of that goes towards taxes. If you remove income tax and just account for health insurance taxes and pension taxes in germany, you will quickly find that the tax cost for the average German for healthcare is higher than just paying monthly health insurance in the US(Non-Marketplace Private Policy, Dental and Vision Incl, assuming aged 40 with no smoking and no prior conditions). Several media outlets have posted statistics stating that these democratic socialist countries pay less for healthcare than america, and if you look at the raw numbers of healthcare spending it is that way, I will not go into all the logic behind my theories as to why this is so, as it is would be too long, I strongly recommend looking into the topics I discuss in this sentence and throughout my post to draw your own conclusion instead of blindly believing me. It is my belief that the healthcare spending in America is severely bloated due to the extreme regulations on the healthcare industry by the glowies in the FDA that are unelected and throughout the bills congress has passed that they have sold to the american people as "holding corporations accountable" when these same corporations lobbied for many of these bills in the first place, the reason as to why they would lobby for more regulation is rather simple, it makes a very strong barrier of entry to the market not just to make drugs, but to build hospitals and run a legal insurance company, for every big pharma giant that survives there are 10s of companies every year that go bankrupt in the biopharmaceutical industry, commonly they raise hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in a IPO then cash burn and pray to god their drug works and gets FDA approval, most of them don't and die. The shareholders take the losses. Or if they do succeed in developing one drug, they will sell out to a bigger company. In order to build a hospital, even if I had 500 million dollars to do so, much of it is wasted on the inefficient process, if I could do whatever I wanted just to make profit and keep prices down on the hospital, I should just be able to buy a couple acres by a highway, construct my hospital to serve the most common illnesses and injuries, and instantly be able to get access to 911. The problem with this is in order to get the permits to even build the hospital in the first place, I first have to spend millions of dollars lobbying local state and federal government, then I have to construct my hospital to the government's standards, I cannot just build a hospital with the sole purpose of treating the most common illnesses, instead I have to waste hundreds of millions building a lot of excess to treat the rarer illnesses, then I have to convince insurance companies to let my hospital use their customers, then I have to pay all the staff hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, partly because doctors are valuable in the labor market and there is a shortage but also partly because the government fucked up the student loan market. That is a different story for a different post. Another reason why we might be spending more on healthcare is simply the prevalence of chronic illness that has been rising for decades, much of which is type 2 diabetes, and obesity related illness. Which is another reason why I think socialized healthcare is morally abhorrent, you're seriously telling me 2/3rds of medicare/medicaid/ACA spending is going towards people I do not know who voluntarily decided to fatten themselves to the point of cutting their lifespan and requiring Eli Lily injections every week to artificially keep them alive, and I am expected to pay for these people that gave themselves these easily preventable illnesses with no choice? Let's pause on healthcare and move to Pension / Social Security. The pension taxes in Germany, you do get some of that money back, but I've found that when you do the math in a simple excel compound interest formula at 6%, then adjust it for inflation, by the time you'd need the money you would have much more than whatever measly amount the government pays you. Granted, if we didn't have mandatory FICA in America, or the rest of the west, I'm sure plenty of these people would degen more of their money on dumb shit instead of saving it for retirement, and we shouldn't just let these people be on the street. It is a hard issue.

 

[gobbles]

First, prices are relative.

Second, the United States lets people do basically whatever they want provided said people can afford it. Everyone is hugely incentivized to work, a lot, so that he or she can get some version of independence. (This independence can be as minimal as Uncle Ted's cabin to as grandiose as Spelling Manor. It's the desire for independence that matters, not the manifestation.)

The people who don't work are basically being paid to get out of the way of the American dream. (Let's set aside the legitimate folks on disability who have, like, paranoid schizophrenia.)

The US government can pay a (relatively) miniscule amount of money per able-bodied-but-lazy individual, and those people will never riot or complain or get above their station because they are petrified of losing $15,000 per year. A single primary care doc making $200,000 a year pays for 4 SSDI NEETs in his taxes ($70k), and yet he turns around and employs basically a village with the rest: owning two cars, sending kids to private school, a gym membership, grocery stores, etc.

The United States says, "It's okay to pay for worthless people provided there aren't very many of them and they stay at home where they belong."

 

[Trump's Chosen]

erican Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare so I do have some bias in this respect, and will not use my personal horrible experiences with these programs in my argument. I have done much research into countries that consider themselves to be "democratic socialist". Namely Germany, due to a paper I wrote in college awhile back while getting my economics degree. They are the biggest socialist welfare state in terms of population, and one of the biggest economies in europe and the world so I find that to be a good example. In Germany, the average worker makes around 41,000 EUR per year, and 33% of that goes towards taxes. If you remove income tax and just account for health insurance taxes and pension taxes in germany, you will quickly find that the tax cost for the average German for healthcare is higher than just paying monthly health insurance in the US(Non-Marketplace Private Policy, Dental and Vision Incl, assuming aged 40 with no smoking and no prior conditions). Several media outlets have posted statistics stating that these democratic socialist countries pay less for healthcare than america, and if you look at the raw numbers of healthcare spending it is that way, I will not go into all the logic behind my theories as to why this is so, as it is would be too long, I strongly recommend looking into the topics I discuss in this sentence and throughout my post to draw your own conclusion instead of blindly believing me. It is my belief that the healthcare spending in America is severely bloated due to the extreme regulations on the healthcare industry by the glowies in the FDA that are unelected and throughout the bills congress has passed that they have sold to the american people as "holding corporations accountable" when these same corporations lobbied for many of these bills in the first place, the reason as to why they would lobby for more regulation is rather simple, it makes a very strong barrier of entry to the market not just to make drugs, but to build hospitals and run a legal insurance company, for every big pharma giant that survives there are 10s of companies every year that go bankrupt in the biopharmaceutical industry, commonly they raise hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in a IPO then cash burn and pray to god their drug works and gets FDA approval, most of them don't and die. The shareholders take the losses. Or if they do succeed in developing one drug, they will sell out to a bigger company. In order to build a hospital, even if I had 500 million dollars to do so, much of it is wasted on the inefficient process, if I could do whatever I wanted just to make profit and keep prices down on the hospital, I should just be able to buy a couple acres by a highway, construct my hospital to serve the most common illnesses and injuries, and instantly be able to get access to 911. The problem with this is in order to get the permits to even build the hospital in the first place, I first have to spend millions of dollars lobbying local state and federal government, then I have to construct my hospital to the government's standards, I cannot just build a hospital with the sole purpose of treating the most common illnesses, instead I have to waste hundreds of millions building a lot of excess to treat the rarer illnesses, then I have to convince insurance companies to let my hospital use their customers, then I have to pay all the staff hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, partly because doctors are valuable in the labor market and there is a shortage but also partly because the government fucked up the student loan market. That is a different story for a different post. Another reason why we might be spending more on healthcare is simply the prevalence of chronic illness that has been rising for decades, much of which is type 2 diabetes, and obesity related illness. Which is another reason why I think socialized healthcare is morally abhorrent, you're seriously telling me 2/3rds of medicare/medicaid/ACA spending is going towards people I do not know who voluntarily decided to fatten themselves to the point of cutting their lifespan and requiring Eli Lily injections every week to artificially keep them alive, and I am expected to pay for these people that gave themselves these easily preventable illnesses with no choice? Let's pause on healthcare and move to Pension / Social Security. The pension taxes in Germany, you do get some of that money back, but I've found that when you do the math in a simple excel compound interest formula at 6%, then adjust it for inflation, by the time you'd nee

Hey guys look, the great textwall of china

 

[Audit]

First, prices are relative.

Second, the United States lets people do basically whatever they want provided said people can afford it. Everyone is hugely incentivized to work, a lot, so that he or she can get some version of independence. (This independence can be as minimal as Uncle Ted's cabin to as grandiose as Spelling Manor. It's the desire for independence that matters, not the manifestation.)

The people who don't work are basically being paid to get out of the way of the American dream. (Let's set aside the legitimate folks on disability who have, like, paranoid schizophrenia.)

The US government can pay a (relatively) miniscule amount of money per able-bodied-but-lazy individual, and those people will never riot or complain or get above their station because they are petrified of losing $15,000 per year. A single primary care doc making $200,000 a year pays for 4 SSDI NEETs in his taxes ($70k), and yet he turns around and employs basically a village with the rest: owning two cars, sending kids to private school, a gym membership, grocery stores, etc.

The United States says, "It's okay to pay for worthless people provided there aren't very many of them and they stay at home where they belong."

This system stops working immediately upon importing useless people intentionally, actively working to make demographics more useless, shipping away jobs that potentially useful people would have done, and deciding that the elderly deserve ultra expensive healthcare and a retirement at the taxpayers' expense. More simply put, a welfare state is inherently incompatible with neoliberalism.