2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

[Surfin Terf]

expect gaza is basically the size of a city and israel doesnt have the issues of logistics and the war in gaza unlike the war in vietnam is very popular.

Why not be thorough? This is an enemy with hundreds of miles of underground tunnels, how would it possibly be better for anyone other than Hamas if Israel just rushed through the invasion?

 

[EyeGuy]

The IDF issued evacuation warnings for several towns in southern Lebanon:

Lebanese media report that the Israeli army dropped flyers in the southern Lebanon border village of Wazzani, calling on civilians in the area to evacuate.

The flyers call on people in the highlighted areas on the border, close to Ghajar, to evacuate before 4 p.m. because of Hezbollah activity in the area.

There is no immediate comment from the IDF on the flyers.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

whats taken israel so long to beat hamas. Hamas is a rag tag milita completly encircled by israel, their only benefactor is iran which is super corrupt and in a bad place. Israel on the other hand is getting paid billions by america and is still not able to take out hamas after a year.

1) Most of the Palestinian population supports Hamas/Hamas' allies so they aren't having much help from the locals
-Remember in Vietnam we were supporting the South Vietnamese government AND there where other nations besides us directly in Vietnam

2) Hamas is literally entrenched under the strip.
-The strip has more underground tunnels than the entire London metro system. These tunnels are for the most part hidden, under civilian areas and likely contain hostages, so the IDF has to be slow and methodical about it.

3) Urban warfare generally by its nature is slow.
-It doesn't help the that the retards of the world keep looking up Israelis ass about everything it does so they can't just go "balls out" and get the job done.

4) They have to split their army.
-Gaza is important yes, but the war against Hezbollah is a much larger operation and the IDF is small. So the IDF cannot devote their entire army to just one area.

5) They are winning.
-The IDF and the Israeli army seeks to not just destroy but prove to the Palestinians why they should never try this terrorist shit ever again. Just like how the allies treated the Germans, the goal is to break their will and ensure they never have to deal with this nonsense in the future. This goal takes time but have you noticed the lack of rockets from the Gaza strip?

 

[EyeGuy]

New before/after of Rafah:

 

[Irish Turtle]

1) Most of the Palestinian population supports Hamas/Hamas' allies so they aren't having much help from the locals
-Remember in Vietnam we were supporting the South Vietnamese government AND there where other nations besides us directly in Vietnam

2) Hamas is literally entrenched under the strip.
-The strip has more underground tunnels than the entire London metro system. These tunnels are for the most part hidden, under civilian areas and likely contain hostages, so the IDF has to be slow and methodical about it.

3) Urban warfare generally by its nature is slow.
-It doesn't help the that the retards of the world keep looking up Israelis ass about everything it does so they can't just go "balls out" and get the job done.

4) They have to split their army.
-Gaza is important yes, but the war against Hezbollah is a much larger operation and the IDF is small. So the IDF cannot devote their entire army to just one area.

5) They are winning.
-The IDF and the Israeli army seeks to not just destroy but prove to the Palestinians why they should never try this terrorist shit ever again. Just like how the allies treated the Germans, the goal is to break their will and ensure they never have to deal with this nonsense in the future. This goal takes time but have you noticed the lack of rockets from the Gaza strip?

whats the long term endgame going to be for israel in this region. From what I have seen the arabs inside israel that have citizenship have managed to get somewhat integrated into israeli society and arent actively revolting against israel. What is israel going to do after the war is over to deal with the palestianian population. I imagine the kahnists in government like ben gvir will push for the ethnic cleansing of all arabs from israel. But if they do that the arab israelis inside israel will get super angry and I doubt israel will be able to deport millions of people easily.

 

[jje100010001]

whats the long term endgame going to be for israel in this region. From what I have seen the arabs inside israel that have citizenship have managed to get somewhat integrated into israeli society and arent actively revolting against israel. What is israel going to do after the war is over to deal with the palestianian population. I imagine the kahnists in government like ben gvir will push for the ethnic cleansing of all arabs from israel. But if they do that the arab israelis inside israel will get super angry and I doubt israel will be able to deport millions of people easily.

There is no endgame for Israel, there will be much gnashing of teeth and kvetching as the region continues to destabilize, the security blanket (keeping those high-tech investments intact) dissipates, and Israel slides towards stagnation, political extremism, and emigration.

The end result is either Algeria 2.0 or Nakba 2.0.

 

[Irish Turtle]

There is no endgame for Israel, there will be much gnashing of teeth and kvetching as the region continues to destabilize, the security blanket (keeping those high-tech investments intact) dissipates, and Israel slides towards stagnation, political extremism, and emigration.

The end result is either Algeria 2.0 or Nakba 2.0.

Do you think israel will still be able to pull the holocaust card on people if they do a nakba 2.0 in the modern age of social media

 

[EscapeVorkuta]

The best-case scenario is this goes on for a long time and there are significant casualties on both sides. The worst-case scenario is Israel wins and subsequently relocates the population of Gaza into the naive Western nations.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You could have said the same about the US and the Viet Cong, except Isreal is winning this one.

As much as I'd like to say it, the big issue is that the Israeli media has preemptively decided that Israel lost for the fact it was attacked first. Last week they spent its entirety saying that Bibi purposely let the hostages die because shortly after 7/10 there was a possible ceasefire agreement where Israel would let go every Arab prisoner and get the 100 still alive hostages. Because that wouldn't have resulted in them seeing it as 100% reason to do this shit again as soon as they get an opportunity.

Just goes to show that Journalists will forever be the enemies of the people in every country.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

As much as I'd like to say it, the big issue is that the Israeli media has preemptively decided that Israel lost for the fact it was attacked first. Last week they spent its entirety saying that Bibi purposely let the hostages die because shortly after 7/10 there was a possible ceasefire agreement where Israel would let go every Arab prisoner and get the 100 still alive hostages. Because that wouldn't have resulted in them seeing it as 100% reason to do this shit again as soon as they get an opportunity.

Just goes to show that Journalists will forever be the enemies of the people in every country.

Yep

The Israeli left is fucking INSANE and they control the media and the supreme Court

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

As much as I'd like to say it, the big issue is that the Israeli media has preemptively decided that Israel lost for the fact it was attacked first. Last week they spent its entirety saying that Bibi purposely let the hostages die because shortly after 7/10 there was a possible ceasefire agreement where Israel would let go every Arab prisoner and get the 100 still alive hostages. Because that wouldn't have resulted in them seeing it as 100% reason to do this shit again as soon as they get an opportunity.

Just goes to show that Journalists will forever be the enemies of the people in every country.

It wouldn't even be a slap on the wrist. It's basically "We'll stop killing terrorists and destroying their ability to make terror, give all the ones we captured and arrested back, including the perpetrators and masterminds of this attack. All they have to do is give back the innocent unarmed civilian hostages they didn't murder! Don't you see.. we could have avoided all this bloodshed and gotten forever peace!!"

Yeah, that shit is utterly retarded.. The left OC will never let things like that go.. almost as hard as they refuse to let the details get in the way of their new narrative/weapon.

1) Most of the Palestinian population supports Hamas/Hamas' allies so they aren't having much help from the locals
-Remember in Vietnam we were supporting the South Vietnamese government AND there where other nations besides us directly in Vietnam

2) Hamas is literally entrenched under the strip.
-The strip has more underground tunnels than the entire London metro system. These tunnels are for the most part hidden, under civilian areas and likely contain hostages, so the IDF has to be slow and methodical about it.

3) Urban warfare generally by its nature is slow.
-It doesn't help the that the retards of the world keep looking up Israelis ass about everything it does so they can't just go "balls out" and get the job done.

4) They have to split their army.
-Gaza is important yes, but the war against Hezbollah is a much larger operation and the IDF is small. So the IDF cannot devote their entire army to just one area.

5) They are winning.
-The IDF and the Israeli army seeks to not just destroy but prove to the Palestinians why they should never try this terrorist shit ever again. Just like how the allies treated the Germans, the goal is to break their will and ensure they never have to deal with this nonsense in the future. This goal takes time but have you noticed the lack of rockets from the Gaza strip?

Number 5 is the important one and why the west has never successfully nation built since soon after WW2. There are just too many aspects to it to talk about here now.. But needless to say, the fact that the media, "peace" and political worlds pressuring an end to hostilities even before the major fighting is over, even in a popular military action, is only part of the reason. The internet and personal camera eras are another element. They make the job of bleeding hearts and selective (traitors etc) peace activists jobs so much easier. Especially when combined with a press and media always looking for the next big controversy. Again though, there are a lot of elements here.. those are some of the big ones.

It all ends up in a situation where the people and even enemies never are made to feel totally beaten. The rush to stop fighting, to unsecure and bring back 100% total self rule. Combine that with cultural relativism and a PC mandate to never ever blame any problems on other culture, let alone impose your own, even with the defeated... And you get victories that are more like mutual peace treaties instead. Hell, we don't even require the destruction of the enemy's ability to fight anymore.

 

[Eleventyish]

I heard that some guy set himself on fire in front of the 4 Seasons hotel in Boston, which IIRC is across the street from the Israeli consulate for Boston. All the news stories I've seen about it say nothing about the consulate, and the obvious reason why someone would do this (again).

Pretty odd.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

whats the long term endgame going to be for israel in this region. From what I have seen the arabs inside israel that have citizenship have managed to get somewhat integrated into israeli society and arent actively revolting against israel.

The Arabs in Israel are a mixed bag, Israeli never trust them, however if they all decide to become patriots for the state then people will feel better. It is getting better for them, especially after 10/7 when the Palestinians in Gaza proved that if there is no Israel, the Arab Israelis will be killed. The long game is for Israel to not have to worry about external conflicts. Jihadism is fucking stupid and intelligent Arabs know this. They also realize that Israel has all the smarts of Europe/the USA/the West with non of the bullshit. Israel also has the most professional army in the region, something which is really important, especially when you realize that Arabs/Muslims hate each other more than they hate the Jews.

What is israel going to do after the war is over to deal with the palestianian population. I imagine the kahnists in government like ben gvir will push for the ethnic cleansing of all arabs from israel.

They might want to talk a big game about it but remember Israel is a democracy with a working legal system, a legal system which hates ben gavir. Don't be surprised if Ben Gavier gets sued out of office or realistically when the war ends the Bibi government will collapse and they will lose influence

But if they do that the arab israelis inside israel will get super angry and I doubt israel will be able to deport millions of people easily.

The only people who want to deport people are Arabs and the Irish. If you're an Arab and not a retard you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Tonty]

New before/after of Rafah:
View attachment 6418098

All that empty space would be perfect for a new DisneyLand.

DisneyLand Harris

 

[Surfin Terf]

New before/after of Rafah:
View attachment 6418098

This is what gets to me about people who defend October 7th... even if you think that Palestinian Arabs were justified in wanting to brutally murder Israeli civilians in their homes, how can they not see that October 7th didn't accomplish anything good for the Palestinian Arabs and there never was any way that it possibly could have?

Literally the only way that you can justify October 7th is to just admit that you think that murdering Israelis is a good thing, even if it causes twentyfold as much suffering. And Palestinian Arabs do seem to think that, but I just wish that the westerners who side with them would just realize that.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

Literally the only way that you can justify October 7th is to just admit that you think that murdering Israelis is a good thing, even if it causes twentyfold as much suffering. And Palestinian Arabs do seem to think that, but I just wish that the westerners who side with them would just realize that.

It's an Arab/Muslim way of thinking, "I'll get my revenge even if it kills me and my family". Suicide bombers are perfect examples of it. Every other sane group in the world agree that you only strap a bomb to yourself if you 100% know you're not walking out alive. However for Muslims they treat suicide bombing like its an everyday thing. Because the only thing that matters is the immediate result (my enemies are hurt and my pride/ego has been restored) not the long term actions (my enemies are stronger and more motivated than me and will hit back harder).

Supporting the Palestinians is supporting your ego not logic.

 

[Irish Turtle]

The Arabs in Israel are a mixed bag, Israeli never trust them, however if they all decide to become patriots for the state then people will feel better. It is getting better for them, especially after 10/7 when the Palestinians in Gaza proved that if there is no Israel, the Arab Israelis will be killed. The long game is for Israel to not have to worry about external conflicts. Jihadism is fucking stupid and intelligent Arabs know this. They also realize that Israel has all the smarts of Europe/the USA/the West with non of the bullshit. Israel also has the most professional army in the region, something which is really important, especially when you realize that Arabs/Muslims hate each other more than they hate the Jews.





They might want to talk a big game about it but remember Israel is a democracy with a working legal system, a legal system which hates ben gavir. Don't be surprised if Ben Gavier gets sued out of office or realistically when the war ends the Bibi government will collapse and they will lose influence



The only people who want to deport people are Arabs and the Irish. If you're an Arab and not a retard you have nothing to worry about.

Reading the ideology of the israeli right a common theme is that the arabs that are given israeli citzenship are a fifth column trying to subvert the state. Also israeli is not like other countries that are becoming more secular with a low birth rate. Israel has an actively increasing birthrate. Most of the births are not from secular jewish families but more radical groups like haredim. I just dont see the demographic trends of israel being conducive to a democracy long term, israel right now kinda reminds of me of iran in the 1960s, the government may be more moderate but there is a powerful hidden religious and right wing streak in most people. All the smarts of the west is from secular jews living in tel aviv which as I said before are becoming a smaller and smaller portion of the total population over time. Thinking pretty long term israel will be a society dominated by the religious nationalists as shown by birthrates. Wasnt bibi trying to subvert democracy in israel prior to october 7. The kahanists in government litterally said they have plans for the explusion of palestianians and those not loyal to israel.

Im curious what do you think personally will happen to the arabs living in israel/palestine in the long term. I dont really see the israeli government right now wanting to give them a state after october 7. If the government stays where its at I predict a status quo of palestinian autonomy zones without statehood in west bank. However if the trends in birthrate take place then I personally predict a full on ethnic cleansing or nakba 2.0.

It's an Arab/Muslim way of thinking, "I'll get my revenge even if it kills me and my family". Suicide bombers are perfect examples of it. Every other sane group in the world agree that you only strap a bomb to yourself if you 100% know you're not walking out alive. However for Muslims they treat suicide bombing like its an everyday thing.

I personally dislike islam and im an exmuslim but this is untrue. If you walk around somewhere like morocco or oman you dont see people putting themselves in suicidal situations on the daily in order to get revenge on others. I see the palestian suicide bombings in israel as mostly being out of desperation on their part since they know israeli is slowly pushing them out so they have no chance expect to go all out now.

I dont really have much love for palestians either since they helped khomeini take over iran, and helped kill assasinate many shahist officals in exile almost including my grandfather.
I just am being realistic with long term trends in israel, I just dont think israelis would want arabs to live in their country.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

I dont really have much love for palestians either since they helped khomeini take over iran, and helped kill assasinate many shahist officals in exile almost including my grandfather.
I just am being realistic with long term trends in israel, I just dont think israelis would want arabs to live in their country.

I won't disagree that there is a road where Israel ends up a shitty theocracy (like Iran) but I doubt the majority want that. Haredi Jews, come hell or high water will be forced into the IDF/to integrate with the larger Israeli society. It's just the nature of people. Do I think they'll marry outside of the faith, no. But I can easily see them marrying outside of Hardi Jews. Because Jews are Jews. Also it is important to remember that Ben Gavir isn't ashkinzi, his family is from Iraq. Most Israelis are not ashkinzi Jews, and those people have zero love for the Arabs. But long story short, I can see some "shedding" occuring.

 

[Irish Turtle]

I won't disagree that there is a road where Israel ends up a shitty theocracy (like Iran) but I doubt the majority want that. Haredi Jews, come hell or high water will be forced into the IDF/to integrate with the larger Israeli society. It's just the nature of people. Do I think they'll marry outside of the faith, no. But I can easily see them marrying outside of Hardi Jews. Because Jews are Jews. Also it is important to remember that Ben Gavir isn't ashkinzi, his family is from Iraq. Most Israelis are not ashkinzi Jews, and those people have zero love for the Arabs. But long story short, I can see some "shedding" occuring.

alright man its great to hear a perspective of israeli people on this issue. When I left iran as a kid I had no idea what israelis were like but the ones I met in person and online seem chill enough. I just hope for the israeli peoples sake that they wake up to the danger of mixing politics and religion I dont want israel to have a supreme rabbi khomeinstein lead their people.

Thats something I also noticed with mizrahi jews, I am iranian and I mostly have good interactions with older generation jewish exiles from iran. My fathers buisness partner himself is a persian jew. And on my moms side my grandfather(who was a factory owner) had a jewish friend who was also his buisness partner in iran(jews did a lot of buisness in iranian bazaars before 1979). However with the younger generation in american they mostly seem distant towards iran and have a very limited understanding of its culture, same thing with second generation iranians from muslim families expect more pronounced.

I think the region as a whole would be better if ishamel and isaac's descandents reconciled and focused on benefitting each other. In europe they had a period of time where all europeans were fighting each other for power in the contient but eventually worked out their issues. I believe maybe unrealistically that in the long run peace is possible between jews arabs, persians and turks.

 

[Surfin Terf]

I think the region as a whole would be better if ishamel and isaac's descandents reconciled and focused on benefitting each other.

Realistically, the thing that is most likely to lead to that is them creating a united anti-Persian front. Hopefully they'll become friendly for simple economic reasons though. That was the idea behind the Abraham Accords and Mohammed bin Salman seems to be a fan of this way of thinking.

I heard that some guy set himself on fire in front of the 4 Seasons hotel in Boston, which IIRC is across the street from the Israeli consulate for Boston. All the news stories I've seen about it say nothing about the consulate, and the obvious reason why someone would do this (again).

Pretty odd.

They really shouldn't give any fuel to this fire and avoid giving these people the attention they desire.

Number 5 is the important one and why the west has never successfully nation built since soon after WW2. There are just too many aspects to it to talk about here now.. But needless to say, the fact that the media, "peace" and political worlds pressuring an end to hostilities even before the major fighting is over, even in a popular military action, is only part of the reason. The internet and personal camera eras are another element. They make the job of bleeding hearts and selective (traitors etc) peace activists jobs so much easier. Especially when combined with a press and media always looking for the next big controversy. Again though, there are a lot of elements here.. those are some of the big ones.

A lot of post-war reconstruction efforts have been ineffective, but denazification might have been the most successful, and even that had a lot of massive failures.

Now imagine if instead of the USSR just not really putting much effort into denazification in East Germany, a significant number of American and British officials and celebrities were claiming that the Nazis were the real victims of WWII and that they bare no blame for the Holocaust, but the Allies bear all the guilt for their strategic bombings (like Darryl Cooper, but in 1946). That's the situation that Israel finds itself with regards to the Palestinian Arabs.