Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

No wonder, the imdb guidelines about user reviews include the following under what not to include:
Expressions of hatred or intolerance or negative sentiment towards people on the basis of race, ethnicity, nationality, gender or gender identity, religion, sexual orientation, age, or disability, including story or characters (real or fictional) and actions/institutions/beliefs associated with them (e.g. sexual acts, religious practices etc.). Reviews criticizing the existence of characters that fall into the category of a protected group are not allowed.

Not acceptable:

  • This is another shameless attempt to push the homosexual agenda on viewers (Expression of intolerance towards a protected group)
  • The film would have been better if it weren't for its predominantly Asian cast (Negative sentiment towards a protected group)
  • This documentary was endorsed by BLM leaders, which tells you all you need to know about its quality and honesty (Negative expression about a protected group)
  • And, at the risk of being branded as 'transphobic' - the worst of all is [named actor]. Good grief but this person cannot act, but why bother when the writers have made the character of Ian just be the 'actor'? Chewing the scenery in every scene and delivering lines like it's the first time they've ever seen them. (Inflammatory)

Acceptable:
  • This is a beautiful and heart warming film about a teenage girl in a deaf family. I am very happy that someone made a film about the challenges of a marginalized and forgotten group (reference to protected group is positive, not derogatory)
  • This show raises important questions on the treatment of people of color in modern society (reference to protected group is positive, not derogatory)
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The fourth bullet point basically makes any criticism of Olly verboten on imdb.com.
 
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modernsage said:
I felt Dracula's Ex-Girlfriend did have its virtues as a script. I know it sounds stupid, but I don't consider that I would have the right to continue criticizing Olly for other things, if I didn't make the effort to expand on this.
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The script was definitely better on the page. The biggest issue is bad pacing; the arguments and revelations do not build, really, and once Bella gets mad, the character stays up at an 11 the whole time, even when the energy should ebb or find new directions. I get that getting rid of the therapy idea makes for more drama, but the lack of subtlety made both characters feel uninteresting, and if there were flashes where they DID seem interesting, Ollie shifts and keeps them stuck in the one awful gear. Should have just made the therapist a little manipulative, with their own agenda that isn't spelled out so obviously.
 
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pangolins said:
Religion for Breakfast has specifically focused on Dracula's Ex-Girlfriend for his Nebula sponsorship segment in his latest video, not only that, he claims that Philosophy Tube has been a long term influence on his channel from the very beggining

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AltShiftX did a similar plug in a few of his videos when Ollie appeared in HotD

Come to think of it, do creators associated with Nebula often promote specific works and creators like these two have done with PhilosophyTube? Or is this all the work of Dave Wiskus and his inexplicable choob lust

Also while I have my tinfoil hat on, does anyone else think it’s a little strange that posts in the r/PhilosophyTube subreddit often reach north of 2000 upvotes but only ever have about a dozen comments usually all from the same few users every time?
 
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Trianon said:
The script was definitely better on the page. The biggest issue is bad pacing; the arguments and revelations do not build, really, and once Bella gets mad, the character stays up at an 11 the whole time, even when the energy should ebb or find new directions. I get that getting rid of the therapy idea makes for more drama, but the lack of subtlety made both characters feel uninteresting, and if there were flashes where they DID seem interesting, Ollie shifts and keeps them stuck in the one awful gear. Should have just made the therapist a little manipulative, with their own agenda that isn't spelled out so obviously.
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I remember thinking the pacing of the opening was managed well. First you get Fay texting someone something passive aggressive about Belladonna. Then Belladonna arrives and is effusive and acting like they're close friends, so that intrigues you about the dynamic between them. Then Belladonna tells the story about the hookup, and it's this big setpiece where you're shocked by the bloody violence. But that's good, because it distracts from the passive-aggressiveness—so then when Belladonna tries to order drinks for Fay and Fay says no, you're even more intrigued. This is the sequence that sold me that Olly does have potential as a writer. It's very engaging material because the writer is clearly thinking about the best way to hook the viewer's attention. Also, it's not just bickering from beginning to end, there's an emotional palette with more than one color.

The script is by no means perfect, and you're right that relatively early on, it fully devolves into bickering and becomes melodramatic and unconvincing. I think he's able to sustain it until about a third of the way through—with Belladonna's monologue where she describes her fight with Dracula and the music changes and you're supposed to be like "Ohh she's in an abusive relationship and is self deluded..." That was too unsubtle to work as foreshadowing and should just have been cut, since you later see the text conversation where Dracula is being controlling, anyway. (My theory is the reason it wasn't cut, was that Olly saw it as his searing Oscar-worthy monologue.) From that point on, it became one note bickering, I suppose because Olly got puffed up and decided that he was doing so so well that he didn't have to bother anymore to try to interest his viewer. Still, that's ten minutes of decent, engaging material. That's more than some would-be scriptwriters are ever able to achieve.

I saw in a response to a Tumblr ask that he was pleased to talk about some of his writing choices:

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Which is narcy and self congratulatory of him, obviously (with shades of exaggerating a likely false closeness with Brandon Rogers). But in the content of what he's saying, he's entirely correct. In fact this is the first Tumblr post I've read from him where I didn't feel like he was being fake or talking out of his ass, instead he seems to have a real instinct and passion for what he's talking about. When Olly writes his next movie, if he would bring that same consciousness to all the parts of his script, not just the first act—then it might end up being even better.
 
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I would have never assumed an “oak smoked California hickory burger” would be the cheapest thing on the menu lol - that all reads to me as expensive af - so I do remember being mildly puzzled by how this scene played out and how annoyed the waiter was acting (like, what am I supposed to even take from this? Fay… doesn’t drink alcohol, but does have a good appetite, I guess?)

Surely if it was at least vaguely important to convey that the character is ordering the cheapest thing on the menu, they should have had… soup, or salad, or some kind of vegetarian option, a pasta pomodoro etc - or even just insert a shot of them scanning though the list of prices and picking whatever was next to the cheapest one. I assume PT’s logic was “burgers = cheap (at, like, McDonalds), therefore at a fancy restaurant, the fancy burger would obviously be the cheapest thing”

This is obviously a minor point but I feel like it ties into the broader impression of PT that this is a person who doesn’t seem to be hugely… aware, or to draw more typical, expected conclusions from things?

I mean it’s good that PT is thinking through these aspects ofc, I just think that the problem is that PT… doesn’t really think like a normal person.
 
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Distraught Knuckles said:
AltShiftX did a similar plug in a few of his videos when Ollie appeared in HotD

Come to think of it, do creators associated with Nebula often promote specific works and creators like these two have done with PhilosophyTube? Or is this all the work of Dave Wiskus and his inexplicable choob lust

Also while I have my tinfoil hat on, does anyone else think it’s a little strange that posts in the r/PhilosophyTube subreddit often reach north of 2000 upvotes but only ever have about a dozen comments usually all from the same few users every time?
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Never expected Alt+Shift+X to become a troon sucker. LoL.
 
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splinybynpligot said:
I would have never assumed an “oak smoked California hickory burger” would be the cheapest thing on the menu lol - that all reads to me as expensive af - so I do remember being mildly puzzled by how this scene played out and how annoyed the waiter was acting (like, what am I supposed to even take from this? Fay… doesn’t drink alcohol, but does have a good appetite, I guess?)

Surely if it was at least vaguely important to convey that the character is ordering the cheapest thing on the menu, they should have had… soup, or salad, or some kind of vegetarian option, a pasta pomodoro etc - or even just insert a shot of them scanning though the list of prices and picking whatever was next to the cheapest one. I assume PT’s logic was “burgers = cheap (at, like, McDonalds), therefore at a fancy restaurant, the fancy burger would obviously be the cheapest thing”

This is obviously a minor point but I feel like it ties into the broader impression of PT that this is a person who doesn’t seem to be hugely… aware, or to draw more typical, expected conclusions from things?

I mean it’s good that PT is thinking through these aspects ofc, I just think that the problem is that PT… doesn’t really think like a normal person.
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Yeah it’s weird. I though the point of the burger was that she is down to earth, and doesnt care how others see her ( because a burger may be a bit messy, and isn’t stereotypically feminine but is satisfying) and it also shows she is becoming human. It was also weird that asking for ketchup is showing she is too low class. It’s a burger and fries. Everyone will want ketchup or some type of sauce. Eating fries with ketchup is not some signal of being low class in America it’s extremely normal. It’s just a bizarre take, unless this is some weird cultural British thing he has assumed is the same in America? But Im assuming y’all eat ketchup with your “chips” as well (?)
 
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ghjoigcbn said:
Yeah it’s weird. I though the point of the burger was that she is down to earth, and doesnt care how others see her ( because a burger may be a bit messy, and isn’t stereotypically feminine but is satisfying) and it also shows she is becoming human. It was also weird that asking for ketchup is showing she is too low class. It’s a burger and fries. Everyone will want ketchup or some type of sauce. Eating fries with ketchup is not some signal of being low class in America it’s extremely normal. It’s just a bizarre take, unless this is some weird cultural British thing he has assumed is the same in America? But Im assuming y’all eat ketchup with your “chips” as well (?)
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Yeah, ketchup's the go to with chips. Maybe burger sauce (or if you're European, mayonnaise). He's probably referencing the habit some people have of drowning everything in ketchup. The gag could maybe work if the "chipped potatoes" were sort of like parmentier potatoes or sautéed potatoes, where there's less of an expectation of ketchup but they're basically chips in a different shape... but they were clearly fast food fries (probably because it was easier to source for filming).

That's sort of my issue with the "bit". It's obviously supposed to establish this is a pretentious fancy restaurant that insists on referring to every meal as something needlessly fancy instead of what they are. But it doesn't really work. I could maybe see it if it was trying to be a French restaurant and the waiter insisted on calling it a "steak haché en brioche with pommes parmentier", but insisting fries are "chipped potatoes"? Not so much. I'll admit the chipped potatoes turning out to be amazing enough to warrant the waiter's fussiness was amusing, though.
 
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To add to the dinner debate.

  • Being that this takes place in California you would expect the cheapest dish to be tacos, since there are Michelin restaurants selling three tacos for five bucks. While there are restaurants that try to elevate burgers into high art, tacos are even messier and harder to turn into high cuisine because the whole point of them is being cheap and accessible.
  • Given Choob is not above making references to other movies, he could go The Menu route and make Fay order a cheeseburger which even at its finest would probably feel insulting to make if you were a trained chef. Alexander says they don't really do that anymore to save face and Fay bickers about how they can simply take the ground beef they have, some cheese and bread and make her one. If you have her only ordering tap water before this it could make it specially insulting to the restaurant.
  • High end restaurants make their own sauces so asking for fucking ketchup is probably going to feel like you spat on the chef's face. Is too sweet for most dishes you expect at a fine establishment, too salty to try to pass it off as experimental jelly, too one note to incorporate into anything but burgers and fries (which you can get anywhere else) and the bottle makes fart noises. I loathe ketchup, specially after working at a Chinese restaurant.
  • You want to portray them as decadently classless? Have them order rare steak and hold it between free bread while they sip red wine. Have them eat like they are V.M Varga transported to Festen. Choob would look more demented with red juice all over his mug.
 
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Distraught Knuckles said:
AltShiftX did a similar plug in a few of his videos when Ollie appeared in HotD

Come to think of it, do creators associated with Nebula often promote specific works and creators like these two have done with PhilosophyTube? Or is this all the work of Dave Wiskus and his inexplicable choob lust

Also while I have my tinfoil hat on, does anyone else think it’s a little strange that posts in the r/PhilosophyTube subreddit often reach north of 2000 upvotes but only ever have about a dozen comments usually all from the same few users every time?
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According to the article I posted a few pages back, creators for Nebula have "shadow equity" in the company. Basically shareholders without any actual ownership or say. But if the company gets sold they'll get paid the financial equivalent of actual shares. So, it's in their interests to not only boost their own Nebula content, but to drive up the numbers of other creators as it boosts the hypothetocal value of their phantom shares

EDIT: In regards to restaurant fare, burgers are always cheaper than anything on the entree menu (steak, pasta, seafood, etc). They're often the same price as a fancy salad. This is true for diners and fancy restaurants, and the high-end ones usually include burgers and chicken fingers to appease kids and picky eaters

But yeah if you wanted to convey thrm being a cheapskate you'd have them order water and an appetizer. A low-class person isn't going to recite the entire item name either or specify the "hickory smoked" California burger

Ketchup is only a faux pas when you slather it on a high end meal, like steak, salmon, etc.
 
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Gosh I even read faye ordering tap water and declining the margaritas as a hint that she was sober and in recovery.

And the waiter being annoyed doesn’t make a ton of sense as she was waiting for her friend and some would consider it rude to order before their friend. If anything he should be annoyed at belle for being late.

And why would faye be someone who was uncomfortable in a fancy setting? She’s the ex of dracula who is shown as someone who is balling out, a big spender. She should be at home there. And most Americans have no qualms going to fine dining ( it looked like a dive honestly). Maybe if it was more OTT, like they had someone pulling out your chairs for you and a string quartet or something and was very stuffy, it would make more sense that 2 vampires would be uncomfortable. Not because they are low class but because they are dreadful creatures of the night that wish to keep a low profile.


Also -
classless- have her order a filet mignon well done with ketchup and comment about filet mignon is the best or something.

Cheap- as others have said, have her order tap water and bread or something. Or just not eat? After all, belle doesnt order a meal only drinks. It’s a faux pas to do that at a restaurant when you are seated for dinner rather than in the bar. But because choob is so hot the waiter doesnt mind I guess.

Im not sure I understand the intent behind choobs characterization of faye as cheap and classless.
 
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