Why do people with abusive childhoods or extreme childhood trauma often never recover?

I'll try not to simply repeat things that have already said but the barebones of my view I'll need to include.

The brain is a learning machine and whilst it's able and inclined to try new things, especially in the teen years, it is also inclined to repeat previous behaviours in the absence of negative outcomes. And whilst one might correctly think seeking out an abusive partner (for example) is a negative outcome, the point of childhood trauma is that it wasn't at the time the pattern formed. Being struck felt safer than waiting for the blow to fall - it meant it was over and your abuser was calm for a while. People seek out the familiar, even if the familiar is horrible because the brain has learned this is a pattern that works and is therefore safer than an untested pattern.

If you're familiar with the concept of local maxima and minima, this has some relevance. A local maxima is not the highest point, it's the highest point you can get to without first going down. Like a hill next to a slightly higher hill. A robot, or a human brain, programmed to go to the highest point by just always going upwards, will get stuck on the smaller hill if it's the first hill it encounters. That's not a wholly bad analogy for childhood trauma - you learn a solution but because of your early circumstances, it's not the best solution, and not the one others around you have learned who were placed at the foot of the better hill. Someone earlier used the analogy of a high rise building where you might be able to reinforce the upper floors and make them nice, but you're having to do a lot of work due to the fact the ground floor is unsound. A lot of abuse victims manage to build those upper floors, make a facade if you will, that lets them function and seems normal, but behind that facade is damage. For example, some of the more gifted abuse survivors can seem very socially capable and yet if you take the time to look at their life in detail you realise how very lonely they are. It's not uncommon at all, in fact. The facade is very well made, but there's still damage behind it. The hill they have climbed gives them a good view and works for many circumstances, but it's a dead end and they'll never be able to reach the actual height they want to - healthy relationships, self-respect, whatever it is they're missing.

Well, they'll never be able to reach those heights until they first recognize the hill they've climbed is a bad one and are willing to come down and start on the right one. To ditch the metaphors about local maxima, that means unpicking the patterns they've developed and building new ones.

And this can be done. One thing I did disagree when reading many good posts in this thread, is the notion that once you pass 25 they're locked in. That's not only something I know for a fact not to be true, I really don't want someone reading it and believing they're doomed. It's true that maybe your trauma will always be with you to an extent, but the brain is always a little plastic and strategies can always be learned - and unlearned.

But it is hard. At any age. To really unpick childhood trauma and re-learn healthier patterns takes active work. Body exercises, mental discipline, spotting triggers for certain thought loops and actively rejecting them when they happen. It's possible - the key is to do it every day.

You also need to accept responsibility. Trauma can give you an excuse, it can become a crutch. For all that the poster talking about Libya earlier misses a lot of the point imo (which is that someone traumatised by a war zone is learning adaptive habits appropriate for a war zone and then will struggle to function normally outside of one), you can't let your trauma be a reason for negative behaviour. At one point in my early twenties I decided "everything is my responsibility". I rejected the idea that my behaviour was the result of previous experiences in life and decided that everything was my choice. Now of course there's an element of fiction in that. I could and do look back at my life sometimes and say "if this had been different" and can recognise how things have shaped my behaviour. But what I can also say is that functionally, my life only started getting better when I decided that. No excuses. Not because they might not be valid, but because they do not help.

It is possible to get past your childhood trauma. Partly through unpicking it and it no longer being as strong a force. Partly through learning coping strategies. The most important thing to realise is that the past isn't a physical place, it exists as patterns in our minds. With active work, mental and physical and a combination of both, it can be undone and become a memory not a part of you. The degree of success may vary but it can always be improved. And contrary to the comments about the brain being done at 25 I've personally found much progress over 30 and onwards. We are our own authors and we don't have to put the pen down until we think we're done or we're dead. As long as you live, you can still rewrite who we are.
 
Because it rewires the maturing brain in a specific way that correlates with future poor behaviour and inability to cope with challenge. Then you grow up in that environment and that cements it further.
It IS possible to sort yourself out and get through it and become more functional, but you’re starting from a different point to a child who had a safe stable upbringing and you’re far less likely to make it. If you grow up in a chaotic or violent environment, how are you going to access those resources? If you’re damaged by booze or drugs or malnutrition some of that damage is permanent.
One the biggest returns on money put in bs saved long term IMO are things that help or prevent this stuff. Early years programs, sure start centres, decent child clinics, early intervention, parenting classes etc.
I grew up poor and the first time I had enough money to stop worrying excessively was my thirties. I still, to this day, cannot shake the habits ground into me by that. Your childhood shapes you, and it is extremely difficult to escape it. I’d actually say you can’t escape it - if you’re lucky and able to you can learn to move past it and deal with it and grow, but you never truly get to the point you’re unaffected by it.
Kids in war zones who have loving family won’t be as affected as a kid with an abusive family in a safe zone. It’s not always the poverty or war around you that fucks you up, it’s lack of an attached and stable caregiver, and the immediate family environment bring a mess. kids can normalise and thrive through all sorts as long as they have those primary caregivers who love them and who are stable and competent.

I'll bite. I definitely couldn't handle challenge, or obligation, or uncertainty, for a long time. I just avoided and appeased.

Then something snapped, and now I revel in fights and conflict of any kind. What exactly is that?
 
Because it rewires the maturing brain in a specific way that correlates with future poor behaviour and inability to cope with challenge. Then you grow up in that environment and that cements it further.
It IS possible to sort yourself out and get through it and become more functional, but you’re starting from a different point to a child who had a safe stable upbringing and you’re far less likely to make it. If you grow up in a chaotic or violent environment, how are you going to access those resources? If you’re damaged by booze or drugs or malnutrition some of that damage is permanent.
One the biggest returns on money put in bs saved long term IMO are things that help or prevent this stuff. Early years programs, sure start centres, decent child clinics, early intervention, parenting classes etc.
I grew up poor and the first time I had enough money to stop worrying excessively was my thirties. I still, to this day, cannot shake the habits ground into me by that. Your childhood shapes you, and it is extremely difficult to escape it. I’d actually say you can’t escape it - if you’re lucky and able to you can learn to move past it and deal with it and grow, but you never truly get to the point you’re unaffected by it.
Kids in war zones who have loving family won’t be as affected as a kid with an abusive family in a safe zone. It’s not always the poverty or war around you that fucks you up, it’s lack of an attached and stable caregiver, and the immediate family environment bring a mess. kids can normalise and thrive through all sorts as long as they have those primary caregivers who love them and who are stable and competent.

I don't believe in the rewired theory. That's a bit too pessimistic. It's more like a learned victim complex which can be undone. It's more emotional.
 
I think I disagree with your premise.

Children are often incredibly resilient psychologically.

Not all, but many children manage to do just fine despite abuse or extreme trauma.

Kids who survived the Holocaust or WW2 in general for that matter, went on to live fulfilling lives and have a family of their own, despite hunger, fear and extreme emotional trauma.

If you were a woman age 12 and up in Germany in 1945, for example, you got raped. Sometimes several or many times.

And those girls went on to live perfectly normal lives themselves.
 
I'll bite. I definitely couldn't handle challenge, or obligation, or uncertainty, for a long time. I just avoided and appeased.

Then something snapped, and now I revel in fights and conflict of any kind. What exactly is that?
Perhaps a stage along the way of processing it? You start as a frightened child, and the way to survive is appease. Now you’re an adult (male?) and there is a way of coping that’s attack, before defence. That makes a degree of sense, by picking the fight you control when it starts. You’re fighting on your terms. If yoi think more deeply about it - the fights and conflict are they all ones deep down you know you’ll win? Or are you testing the boundary of when you get knocked back again? Are you on attack mode to protect yourself or are you actively wanting someone to beat you? I would humbly suggest that fighting could get you hurt, and that conflict mode on all the time is bad for your health. Perhaps the next stage is to move beyond to knowing that if/when conflict arises you can cope with it and win, but you don’t need to be on the offensive all the time. Apologies if too direct, just a thought.
I don't believe in the rewired theory. That's a bit too pessimistic. It's more like a learned victim complex which can be undone. It's more emotional.
By required I dont mean it’s necessarily permanent. @Overly Serious outlines it better above - the brain is plastic and I think adverse childhood experiences rewire you, but you can with enough work rewire again.
I am sure I’ve read for example that a lot of adrenaline during later childhood raises the threshold you need for a hit. So a kid who is doing extreme sports might be unfazed by rollercoasters while I would have been really scared by them. Experience changes the brain but that works both ways, you can use it to your advantage
 
By required I dont mean it’s necessarily permanent. @Overly Serious outlines it better above - the brain is plastic and I think adverse childhood experiences rewire you, but you can with enough work rewire again.
Usually trauma permanently rewires brain. Women in military are rendered infertile by sufficient trauma and that's bodily related.
Brain can only take so much stress before it breaks and once it does it's over. No amount of chemical cocktail will fix it.
It is like a crashed car, you can always fix it but it will never drive the same.

 
Usually trauma permanently rewires brain. Women in military are rendered infertile by sufficient trauma and that's bodily related.
Brain can only take so much stress before it breaks and once it does it's over. No amount of chemical cocktail will fix it.
It is like a crashed car, you can always fix it but it will never drive the same.

I think there’s a lot of variation, some people take the most horrific things and seem to manage far better than others. That’s not to disparage anyone who experiences such things of course - combat trauma must be pretty grim and ptsd is not a sign of weakness. Shell shock is very real.
I also think there’s a level of stress that will damage you permanently as an adult. That level seems very different for different people. people who have experienced severe burnout tend to report they can’t manage the same levels of stress again.
We don’t manage well as a society with letting people heal IMO. Many cultures have rituals around healing from normal but stressful events like birth or bereavement. Stuff like a new mum gets to chill for a month and female relatives cook and certain rituals go on. Or after bereavement the idea of a period of mourning. We see these as not needed in modern society and I think that’s a mistake - a ritual time period is an acknowledgment that healing is needed amd a process. It’s the same with illness - you’re expected to just get on and keep going, when a day or two in bed would be far better.
We should all be much kinder to ourselves (kind in the real sense, not the SJW meaning…)
 
You never truly "recover" from childhood abuse. You just try and move on.
Adding onto this, a lot of attempts to move on are maladaptive.
Either you move on by "running away", or you stay in a rut and repeat whatever it was ad nauseum. The latter is almost always a disaster, but the former can be a disaster too.
 
I think there’s a lot of variation, some people take the most horrific things and seem to manage far better than others. That’s not to disparage anyone who experiences such things of course - combat trauma must be pretty grim and ptsd is not a sign of weakness. Shell shock is very real.
There was a study of ww2 veterans that people with stable families and good childhoods had greater resistance to trauma than others. Make of that what you wish.
I also think there’s a level of stress that will damage you permanently as an adult. That level seems very different for different people. people who have experienced severe burnout tend to report they can’t manage the same levels of stress again.
Correct
We don’t manage well as a society with letting people heal IMO.
Society is designed in such a way to only allow "official" methods - health monopoly as well as being completely hostile now days so broken people are unable to heal.
It’s the same with illness - you’re expected to just get on and keep going, when a day or two in bed would be far better.
We should all be much kinder to ourselves
Unfortunately, we live for economy and numbers: people are expendable as you've seen in ww1, 2 and now 3.
 
It seems to depend on the person and event. Some people just bottled it/got over it and managed to proceed with their life, some couldn't, some managed to go through hard events but something else pushed them over the edge.

With lolcows it's important to remember that accusations of childhood abuse are an easy get out of jail cards that usually can't be verified.
 
I'll bite. I definitely couldn't handle challenge, or obligation, or uncertainty, for a long time. I just avoided and appeased.

Then something snapped, and now I revel in fights and conflict of any kind. What exactly is that?
I would respectfully suggest it might be over-compensating. Something in your life put you into the mindset of expecting conflict. This made you prone to appeasing, shying away from the expected confrontation. You may have identified your problem as weakness or fear and view it as improvement to now aggressively face the conflict and see victory in it. And sometimes it might be. But the actual resolution would more likely be to resolve whatever is making you expect conflict. Your aggression may be a better (or worse) maladaptive behaviour then your avoidance, but both are maladaptive responses in most normal societies. Both can lead you to isolation or trouble forming friendships.

However, you have demonstrated the ability to modify your learned behaviour which is impressive and a positive. So if you agree with my take on it (you may not which is fine), you have the potential to move on to a third stage again, where you are comfortable with confrontation but don't expect it in a self-fulfilling way.

By required I dont mean it’s necessarily permanent. @Overly Serious outlines it better above - the brain is plastic and I think adverse childhood experiences rewire you, but you can with enough work rewire again.
You're a little too kind but thanks. There are physical routines that can help. The mind and the body are connected and that might sound like some hoary new age thing but it's nonetheless true. Our facial expressions, our posture, our breathing all change according to our mood. But what many don't realise is that by conforming expression, posture, breathing to a desired state it's entirely natural for it to influence your mood - the channel flows both ways. Or perhaps better to think of it as not a channel at all - it's really the same thing you're looking at with a bit of lag. The brain is the nexus of our nervous system but our nervous system doesn't stop at the base of the skull, our sense of self runs through our entire body. If you look to some of the traditional meditative exercises like pranayama, some of the mental exercises old Russian monks performed, or whatever culture you want to dive into, you can find many of these work very well to get you into an altered state where some of that plasticity is restored and you can work specifically on breaking down old patterns.

That's why I mentioned physical techniques as well as things like keeping a journal to monitor yourself day to day, identifying and breaking negative thought loops, CBT techniques. Combine the two and it's surprising how much you can really change - if you want to.
We don’t manage well as a society with letting people heal IMO. Many cultures have rituals around healing from normal but stressful events like birth or bereavement. Stuff like a new mum gets to chill for a month and female relatives cook and certain rituals go on. Or after bereavement the idea of a period of mourning. We see these as not needed in modern society and I think that’s a mistake - a ritual time period is an acknowledgment that healing is needed amd a process. It’s the same with illness - you’re expected to just get on and keep going, when a day or two in bed would be far better.
We should all be much kinder to ourselves (kind in the real sense, not the SJW meaning…)
Everything you just said x2. And if I may add, some of the modern replacement rituals are downright harmful. A study on bereaved people who'd suffered an unexpected loss of someone close to them found that those doing grief counselling recovered to normal life much slower than those not provided it. Therapy can actually be bad. Though I don't want to knock it for those who do benefit. I tend to favour practical techniques for dealing with trauma over talking about it lots and lots. That might be a more stereotypically male perspective, though.

EDIT: Slightly ninja'd on that last point by @Dawdler with whom I fully agree about allowed methods of healing.
 
You're a little too kind but thanks. There are physical routines that can help. The mind and the body are connected and that might sound like some hoary new age thing but it's nonetheless true. Our facial expressions, our posture, our breathing all change according to our mood. But what many don't realise is that by conforming expression, posture, breathing to a desired state it's entirely natural for it to influence your mood - the channel flows both ways.
That's a good portion of studies only coming out lately: One for example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27626675/
and also the other that physical activity gives better mood improvements than any pills.
A lot of psychology is heavy pharma and profit orientated. There was one study that therapy actually doesn't work and doesn't improve condition of patients, which shat on the whole field of pseudo-science.

I didn't learn until later, that how you fall asleep influences your dreams as well. Having straight legs prevents those dreams of walking in molasses.
We are of one mind and body really. That's also why fit people have less mental issues. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/health/adolescents-exercise-mental-health.html https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih...cal-activity-helps-reduce-depression-symptoms
 
I don't believe in the rewired theory. That's a bit too pessimistic. It's more like a learned victim complex which can be undone. It's more emotional.

Example: two women are raped as toddlers. One is born with Bipolar Disorder and is a sensitive autist. The other doesn’t have a mental illness exacerbating the issue.

Basically, skill issue. Everyone has some sort of horrific trauma if you get down to it; some are just more equipped to handle it than others. Survival of the fittest. Being alive is awful except when it isn’t.
 
Another important thing is that modern culture heavily discourages accepting trauma and instead incentivise wallowing in self pity for what amounts as civil status as a victim.

Basically everyone is now Livia from the Sopranos
 
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