LawTube - Lawyers sperging at each other on YouTube

[datura_binge]

Was a settlement possible? I mean "I want $20k and $200k in legal fees" sounds a bit excessive. I haven't seen what settlement was offered, if any, or if it was less than what was awarded.

Yeah he could have just paid a 1000 dollar fine and some lawyer fees like any sane person would have done. Instead of went on a denial campaign that was doomed from the start

 

[DumDum Did Nothing Wrong]

don't worry joe kurt will save your doomed petition at SCOTUS.

 

[Himedall All-seeing Waifu]

Yeah he could have just paid a 1000 dollar fine and some lawyer fees like any sane person would have done. Instead of went on a denial campaign that was doomed from the start

It is more than 1k, according to this site I found by magic of Google:

The FDCPA gives consumers a private right of action to pursue civil litigation for the violations listed above (among others). In private right of action cases under the FDCPA, consumers can seek either actual damages or statutory damages of up to $1,000 per violation, plus recovery of their attorneys’ fees and costs.

(Emphaiss added)
Link

It seems to be 1k plus barrister costs OR actual damages plus costs.

 

[datura_binge]

It is more than 1k, according to this site I found by magic of Google:


(Emphaiss added)
Link

It seems to be 1k plus barrister costs OR actual damages plus costs.

I said 1k plus lawyer fees. But the actual damages are...none. not when he first got hit with it anyway. It's all the shit AFTEE that that has landed him with the bill he has now.

 

[Canard]

So could he just have dropped the debt and paid something that attorneys with 3k contingency fee filed? Or was that bill already higher?

 

[Balldo's Gate]

And he's not merely making lame defenses, because he knows he has no defenses, because the court REJECTED his defenses resoundingly and even helpfully pointed out that the plaintiff in the FDCPA case he got raped in could have gone after him for even MORE shit, but calling the people who came to the same conclusion as a federal judge did that they're somehow "fools," "ignorant," and "insane."

You know, for reading what a federal judge wrote and agreeing with it because it's obviously correct.

Joe could have just admitted he broke the FDCPA, settled the case, and moved on.

He instead advanced "defenses" by which I mean he said things like that he allowed an office manager who was not a lawyer to stamp letters he had not personally reviewed with his signature, which obviously gave the appearance they were from an attorney, which as the judge pointed out in his ruling, was a potential violation of the FDCPA in and of itself.

Joe admitted this was their usual practice and last night admitted that these potential FDCPA violations happened to the tune of HUNDREDS OF TIMES A DAY.

He just said they wanted 13k to start.

That's down from the $20k he said was their settlement offer earlier on Locals. Though I guess it went up with time (which it would, obviously, as more time gets spent on the suit)

I have a feeling if he retained counsel, a lawyer would have told him to take the $13k and run. Joe was ordered to pay $8,000 in actual damages plus $500 in statutory damages in the end anyway.

That's $8.5k to begin with, and then they would have racked up hours in starting the lawsuit anyway which would bring them up closer to $13k. It doesn't seem that outrageous based on the damages he was eventually ordered to pay after fighting it.

 

[Catgirl Tyranid]

Joe admitted this was their usual practice and last night admitted that these potential FDCPA violations happened to the tune of HUNDREDS OF TIMES A DAY.

I would ask a fellow farmer who also happens to be a Jewish Debt Collector if this is a common practice in the Debt Collection industry, but this is one of those rare instances where I don't think that intersection actually exists.

 

[Watching Rekieta]

Yeah he could have just paid a 1000 dollar fine and some lawyer fees like any sane person would have done. Instead of went on a denial campaign that was doomed from the start

Where was that offered? A settlement wouldn't include a fine.

 

[TherapyMan]

I would ask a fellow farmer who also happens to be a Jewish Debt Collector if this is a common practice in the Debt Collection industry, but this is one of those rare instances where I don't think that intersection actually exists.

I am not, but I do have some professional experience as an attorney in an adjacent field and general awareness of how the legal industry operates.

First let me say from the onset that the bar for debt collection attorneys on the whole is a lot lower than the average attorney. These attorneys typically work on a flat fee basis, meaning instead of billing per hour, they are paid a flat sum. As a result, these attorneys are incentivized to process as much as possible as fast as possible and the field rewards those who prioritize quantity over quality. Debt collection for attorneys generally involves reusing and duplicating the same materials over and over again with the specific names and amounts substituted, so the need for actual legal experience is far less than other types of work. Because of this, a paralegal theoretically could handle most of the "grunt" work related to collection of debt provided the form letter adheres to applicable law, even though they're technically not supposed to practice law. Because the system rewards quantity above all else, less scrupulous lawyers will be cutting corners to maximize income per hour and going beyond cutting corners like Joe here by pawning off the assignment to office staff.

In an ideal world, one would hope that an attorney reviews everything that his or her name appears on. In practice, it unfortunately can be very common that the attorney performs basically zero oversight and trusts the paralegal or other office staff to process routine work under his or her letterhead. For these attorneys, having a solid form letter serves to cover your ass, but it can only save you if you're using the form letter correctly.

Here, Joe fucked up on several levels according to Plaintiff. First, Joe's staff used a form subpoena to serve an out-of-state debtor, which is not permitted under New York law. Second, it was sent by regular mail, instead of in the same manner as a summons. Third, the date it proposed to schedule to deposition was December 26, a federal holiday. Fourth, it was not timely because it did not provide 10 days' notice before the scheduled deposition date. Finally, it did not have the statutorily required language. Joe admits he fucked up at least to date of the deposition and the service of process.

All of this reeks of inexperience and lack of oversight. Some people have stated that Joe did this intentionally, which I myself find hard to believe, especially since he was not carrying malpractice insurance (an absolutely insane prospect, by the way) and the risk-to-benefit analysis is horribly skewed (why open yourself to multiple potentially six-figure lawsuits merely to collect four-figures of pocket change debt?). Further, people speculate that there may be many unknown potential FDCPA claims against Joe lingering out there, but I would bet that most of Joe's collection business would have been intra-state and therefore not have the same issues as this matter. Not to say that there aren't other potential claims against him out there, just that I would not suspect there to be that many all things considered.

 

[AnOminous]

There is no "good guy" in this story.

No but there's a worse guy and it's Joe.

First let me say from the onset that the bar for debt collection attorneys on the whole is a lot lower than the average attorney. These attorneys typically work on a flat fee basis, meaning instead of billing per hour, they are paid a flat sum.

They also very often work, whether as direct employees or on some kind of associate basis, for companies that specialize in buying up "bad debt" for pennies on the dollar and then spamming lawsuits about it, hoping (and usually succeeding) to turn a profit out of what they actually get. Much of what they do is cookie cutter filings just pasting in the actual names, specific facts of the case, and other things.

While this is legal scutwork, whatever format they file in has usually been perfected over years or even decades of practice not to fall afoul of the FDCPA, because actually getting nailed under it is incredibly painful, as JewLawgic has found out to his chagrin.

I have known both lawyers (Jewish and otherwise) and laypeople who work in things like nonjudicial foreclosures, and the successful ones are not the ones who pull jackoff bullshit like this. One friend does foreclosures and usually tries to avoid foreclosure, preferring actually getting the person back on some kind of plan if at all possible.

None of them do things like making completely unfounded threats, and even though the cookie-cutter nature of this kind of practice favors focusing on volume, the lawyer not even looking at shit is far from best practice and itself a violation of the law. The review may be kind of cursory, but the nonsense Joe engaged in here is well beyond what the FDCPA allows. His claims otherwise are abjectly silly nonsense and just make him look like a fool to anyone who knows anything about this field.

He's obviously catering to a low-IQ audience if he thinks his attempts to portray this fuckup as anything other than his own damn fault. A real man would have sucked it up, paid it off, and fixed whatever the fuck is wrong with his business that led to it.

 

[TherapyMan]

While this is legal scutwork, whatever format they file in has usually been perfected over years or even decades of practice not to fall afoul of the FDCPA, because actually getting nailed under it is incredibly painful, as JewLawgic has found out to his chagrin.

Would it not be the case if Joe was representing a client here instead of his own entity that the theoretical client could recover for malpractice and still stick Joe with the 117K judgment since they’re jointly and severally liable? Or does the statute foreclose on that possibility?

Imagine getting double fucked like that. Joe’s lucky he doesn’t have a client going after him for malpractice on top of the judgment.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

EDIT: Can someone archive the stream? I can't archive it right now.


Himedall, after your clip, Joe has been seething in the comments of his video and particularly at Meme Copium. Archives aren't working for me properly so please check if this archive is good. His replies are below and they're all bangers imho

Spoiler: rest of this chain

Other shit:

"I hid a life ruining 117k judgement from my wife, it'll work out fine! Is it because she'll hire orthodox jews to beat you until you agree to a get?

If anyone wonders, Truicd/Lemon Party is a frequent commenter on Elissa's clips and Nick streams laughing at him on youtube when Nick started his nosedive into coke.

I'm sure a lot of you are thinking the same thing about Joe as I am right now...

While Joe is interesting, Gosney has re-doubled himself on hawking his book wares:

Gosney is not long for the descent into lolyerdom. I believe we shall all watch his actions with great interest.

 

[Balldo's Gate]

Himedall, after your clip, Joe has been seething in the comments of his video and particularly at Meme Copium. Archives aren't working for me properly so please check if this archive is good. His replies are below and they're all bangers imho

Well Meme Copium now has 3 streams to milk this for at least. All of Joe's response, plus the two depositions of the plaintiff and defendant are probably a stream onto themselves each.

If anyone wonders, Truicd/Lemon Party is a frequent commenter on Elissa's clips and Nick streams laughing at him on youtube when Nick started his nosedive into coke.

He split the profits 50/50 but retained 100% of the liability in case one of the debtors who were on the other side of their stamped signature letter spam decided to sue.

Some questionable business decisions.

 

[Irish Turtle]

what do you guys think of legal eagle

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Well Meme Copium now has 3 streams to milk this for at least. All of Joe's response, plus the two depositions of the plaintiff and defendant are probably a stream onto themselves each.

There's two great phrases that can be applied to Joe's mindless work of creating more work for himself:
"Jedem das Seine" (Each to what he shall deserve) and "Arbeit macht frei" (Work sets you free).

 

[AnOminous]

Would it not be the case if Joe was representing a client here instead of his own entity that the theoretical client could recover for malpractice and still stick Joe with the 117K judgment since they’re jointly and severally liable? Or does the statute foreclose on that possibility?

Well, they often "represent" corporations that are basically their own alter egos.

That's not always the case. Many of the big ones you'll find tens of thousands of cases from hire supposedly independent lawyers to do this.

In this case, though, the papers kind of speak for themselves. You can just read them and know what happened, and what happened was pretty dumb.

 

[Catgirl Tyranid]

what do you guys think of legal eagle

I don't think about him.

 

[Irish Turtle]

I don't think about him.

he is basically a lawtuber that makes 10 videos a day on why trump is evil and going to prison

 

[Catgirl Tyranid]

he is basically a lawtuber that makes 10 videos a day on why trump is evil and going to prison

No, I know who he is. I just don't think about him.

 

[Irish Turtle]

No, I know who he is. I just don't think about him.

thats smart, that way retards like him dont get money.