Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Lookie-lou]

Does the hoholmars has to be a gps system?

If they just want it to shoot into russian territory with.... some accuracy, gps may not be needed.

Unless I am retarded the Himars was about precision strikes, but what if Azov-kun just wants to hit the general area katyusha style, but from longer range?

Do they need gps for hitting lets say an oil facility or city?

So far not seen any evidence of the USA/EU providing anything but GPS guided GMLRS rounds for HIMARs/ATACMs sent to Ukraine, which makes sense when you think about the imbalances Ukraine has to deal with: Next to zero loiter with no dialing in at the launch site or these trucks will be spotted and destroyed very fast, and sure enough every time Ukraine wasnt speedy gonzoles they have been rapidly hit. These HIMARs launchers are very expensive and the USA wants only maximum ROI optics wise.

Not to say NATO hasnt tried to shore up the lack of dumb MLRS systems, old soviet GRAD launchers and spinoffs GRADs like the Czech Vampyr have been sent in pretty big numbers. It's no skin off the USA's MIC if more euro stuff gets rapidly destroyed.

 

[Ashkenazi Porn Actress]

and Germany's heading for a snap election, so their so-called leaders may actually care for a few months what the plebs are thinking.

A few notes on this:
First, they're currently attempting to stall the initiation of election procedures as much as possible. This is due to the fact that Merz, who is the leader of the CDU ("Conservatives") doesn't not want to get voted into office to replace Scholz with the votes of either the AfD or Die Linke/BSW.
Second, despite Scholz having no domestic agenda remaining has hinted at being in talks with the other parties to "bring important bills to parliament", meaning they most likely want to initiate proceedings to ban the AfD.
Third, Merz who'll the CDU candidate for chancellor is is not only a hawkish WEF/Davos stooge who worked for Blackrock who wanted to deliver Taurus long range missles to UA (which would have to be operated by Bundeswehr soldiers) but has also publically vowed to double on green energy and enviromental policies.

 

[demicolon]

The best Trump could handle this is to offer Ukraine some token financial support and "good luck, you're on your own" as in shit yourself and do nothing. Boots on the ground means nukes fly, withdrawing fully means bad PR at home, NATO itself is useless and can't officially join the conflict anyway, making any concedings to Russia would look very bad for a self-proclaimed master negotiator.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

The best Trump could handle this is to offer Ukraine some token financial support and "good luck, you're on your own" as in shit yourself and do nothing. Boots on the ground means nukes fly, withdrawing fully means bad PR at home, NATO itself is useless and can't officially join the conflict anyway, making any concedings to Russia would look very bad for a self-proclaimed master negotiator.

I'll agree that it's possible Trump will effectively do nothing, but I think he will negotiate an end to the war, but Russia will get most of what it wants: a demilitarized Ukraine, legal recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk by the UN if not full annexation, and a return of assets seized by sanctions. Neocons will squeal, but regular people with empathy will be glad the war is over. Trump might able to keep Odessa Ukrainian while also delegating NATO defense to Western Europe to compensate, so Anglo warhawks will still have enough power to cause trouble.

Negotiating from weakness is not good, but failing to do anything is worse for him.

 

[demicolon]

Ending the war on conditions of returning seized assets, lifting sanctions, giving up territories under Russian control and legal recognition of them is agreeing to Russia's demands for nothing. You'd have to be insane to agree to that. Right now Trump's in position to demand Russians retreat from territories outside Lucas, Dumbass and Crimea in exchange for lifting sanctions and returning assets, but it won't happen because he can't commit the army to back it up. The best you could do is keeping Ukraine on life support until Russia tires itself out on the meatgrinder and Ukraine can't resist anymore, then say you're vewy vewy sowwy it had to end like this, blame both for senseless warmongery and mediate some stalemate between the two.

Also, Russia wants Ukraine to stop being the monumental pain in the ass it was for the last decade and for NATO to stop meddling there, NATO obviously won't agree to that or honor whatever paper agreement it would sign so Russia's not gonna be happy with anything less than bleeding Ukraine out for good.

 

[Procopius]

Does the hoholmars has to be a gps system?

If they just want it to shoot into russian territory with.... some accuracy, gps may not be needed.

Unless I am retarded the Himars was about precision strikes, but what if Azov-kun just wants to hit the general area katyusha style, but from longer range?

Do they need gps for hitting lets say an oil facility or city?
Not saying that will do much beside making Igor mad, but if goatherders in a getto can oy vey the Shekel Dome of Invinciblity with enough bottle rockets...

That's what they did yesterday, with little to no effect (I've not seen any reports of drones hitting anything even vaguely important).

Defense Ministry reports destruction of 96 UAVs over Russian regions​

The department emphasized that most of the drones were eliminated over the Moscow Region

MOSCOW, November 11. /TASS/. The Russian Defense Ministry reported the repulsion of a massive strike on the country's civilian infrastructure on Sunday, with 96 Ukrainian drones destroyed and intercepted over the country's subjects.
The department emphasized that most of the drones were eliminated over the Moscow Region.
The agency reported that 23 Ukrainian UAVs were intercepted and destroyed throughout last night, including 17 over the Bryansk Region, three over the Rostov Region, two over the Belgorod Region, and one over the Kursk Region. In addition, from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. Moscow time (4:00-7:00 a.m. GMT), air defenses intercepted and destroyed 70 drones, including 34 over the Moscow Region, 14 over the Bryansk Region, seven each over the Oryol and Kaluga regions, six over the Kursk Region, and two over the Tula Region.
In addition, at around 9:25-11:00 p.m. (6:25-8:00 p.m. GMT), two Ukrainian drones were shot down over the Belgorod Region and one over the Kursk Region.

According to this Ukrainian source they just pointed them in the right direction and hoped for the best.


The deadline for keeping Kursk is now pushed back to February.

Although the Russians are slaughtering them there. Larry Johnson's blog today includes a particularly horrific film of shallow trenches in the open fields of Kursk piled high with corpses. I'm not reposting it, but here's part of the daily report from Army Group North.

The Azovites are now concentrated in the UAV battalions, threatening their own people.

And remember the Russian helicopter pilot who defected and was later found dead in Spain? Apparently the Ukrainians ran a PR campaign to pretend he was still alive. Can't say I ever noticed it.

They tried to lure another one. I Wonder why the plot failed.

 

[Echo_Doge]

So they're intentionally flying drones over Moscow residential areas, knowing the Russians will shoot them down and cause civillian casualties, without even giving them a real military or logistical target?

They're actively resorting to terrorism. Oh boy, can't see that backfiring on them...

Do they need gps for hitting lets say an oil facility or city?
Not saying that will do much beside making Igor mad, but if goatherders in a getto can oy vey the Shekel Dome of Invinciblity with enough bottle rockets...

They can and apparently have been. But the accuracy is so poor without GPS or Spotters that they're more likely to hit an unimportant part of a target (Parking lot, empty land, a maintenance shed, ect) or miss it completely (And possibly hit a civillian target nearby).

The middle-easterners that have success doing this have a few differences from the Ukies, though:

• They're firing rockets over densely-packed Israeli cities that are doing normal operations. The Ukies are firing at cities that are less dense, largely evacuated, and operating under extreme war-time caution.
• They're using unguided rockets that are extremely cheap to make and deploy, not multi-million dollar HIMARS systems.
• They usually had an hour or so before Israeli forces hit back with an airstrike, vs an immediate response from Russian artillery and drones

The Hamas-style Rocket Harass only works if your opponent is holding back. once they stop doing that, you get the current Israel vs Hamas curb stomp.

And Russia isn't holding back.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1855943182065783057

 

[Useful_Mistake]

 

[Gaëtan Dugas]

There are reports from the pro Ukraine star that there are 50k Russia troops massing to launch a massive counter offense in kursk.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

And remember the Russian helicopter pilot who defected and was later found dead in Spain? Apparently the Ukrainians ran a PR campaign to pretend he was still alive. Can't say I ever noticed it

60 Minutes actually ran this story yesterday and did a whole segment on it. I was watching something more interesting so I only caught part of it flipping away from commercials, but apparently it was some guy in a super realistic mask. Lots of gnashing of teeth from the deep-staters being interviewed.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

There are reports from the pro Ukraine star that there are 50k Russia troops massing to launch a massive counter offense in kursk.

That's way more than needed to clear out the last settlement Ukraine holds. That force is going to take Sumy.

 

[Gog & Magog]

Trump talked to Putin, told Russian leader not to escalate in Ukraine | Archive

President-elect Donald Trump spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, the first phone conversation between the two men since Trump won the election, said several people familiar with the matter.

During the call, which Trump took from his resort in Florida, he advised the Russian president not to escalate the war in Ukraine and reminded him of Washington’s sizable military presence in Europe, said a person familiar with the call, who, like others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.

The two men discussed the goal of peace on the European continent and Trump expressed an interest in follow-up conversations to discuss “the resolution of Ukraine’s war soon,” one of the people said.

Russia denies Trump call with Putin urging restraint in Ukraine | Archive

The Kremlin has denied media reports that US President-elect Donald Trump held a call with Vladimir Putin, in which he is said to have warned the Russian president against escalating the war in Ukraine.

...Trump's communications director Steven Cheung told the BBC: "We do not comment on private calls between President Trump and other world leaders."

But he said leaders had begun the process of contacting the president-elect. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov denied a conversation had taken place.

"This is completely untrue, it is pure fiction. That is, this is simply false information. There was no conversation," Peskov said.

 

[Yak-130 Mitten]

Why are any of you retards believing in fucking wapo of all sources after YEARS of them lying through their teeth?

 

[Gog & Magog]

Why are any of you retards believing in fucking wapo of all sources after YEARS of them lying through their teeth?

I don't. I'm waiting until Trump enters office before passing judgement.

 

[Gaëtan Dugas]

That's way more than needed to clear out the last settlement Ukraine holds. That force is going to take Sumy.

Lets hope.

 

[Echo_Doge]

The deadline for keeping Kursk is now pushed back to February.

Kursk is a fucking disaster for the Ukies.

From a political point, I can see why they're dead-set on keeping it. They can point to it as "Striking Back" to boost morale and attract foreign aid.

And they NEED to securely hold it to have literally anything to offer when negotiating with Russia.

But from a strategic and tactical standpoint, it's the absolute worst thing they could be doing.

They've taken over an area that is completely unimportant to the Russians and fortified it. They somehow expected that this would goad Russia into attacking their now-fortified positions and take huge losses.

Except Russia isn't that stupid. They just surrounded the area, fortified THEIR positions so the Ukies couldn't take any more territory, and started raining artillery on the Ukies.

So now the Ukies are trapped, taking huge casualties from bombardments. They can't hold these positions. After all the buildings have been leveled, they're literally down to trenches in open fields. And the Ttenches aren't helping them much against modern firepower.

The Russians have been shelling trenches until there are no more heat signatures picked up by their drones, then literally walking over the trenches full of dead Ukie troops. They practically dug their own graves.

The only options the troops there have are to retreat (The Russians have even left them a massive opening to do so) or push forward through the Russian lines.

Z-Man and his generals won't let them retreat and are instead using the opening Russia left for retreat to reinforce the doomed positions. And apparently are sending most of their best troops there.

So they're forced to push forward across open ground and into Russian killzones. Needless to say, any attempts to break through the Russian lines are repulsed with huge casualties.


This is the main reason the frontlines in Ukraine are collapsing so fast: Ukraine is literally pulling forces off of already-weak fronline positions to go into the Kursk bloodbath.

 

[Procopius]

That's way more than needed to clear out the last settlement Ukraine holds.

They've got more than they need of everything. The Russians are usually cagey about releasing numbers, but there was a report in TASS today that they've built 700 helicopter engines this year. Seven fucking hundred. And I can barely remember the last time the Ukies shot down a heli.

Russian engine maker produces 700 VK-2500 helicopter engines in 2024​

The Klimov VK-2500 engine is a Russian turbofan engine

NOVOSIBIRSK, November 11. /TASS/. The United Engine Corporation (UEC) has pumped out 700 VK-2500 engines for Ka-50 and Mi-8 helicopters this year, Deputy CEO Yury Shmotin said.
"In 2024, 700 VK-2500 engines (for the Ka-50 and Mi-8 helicopters and their variations) were manufactured. Production volumes grew exponentially," the senior executive said.
The Klimov VK-2500 engine is a Russian turbofan engine. It has several variations.

I don't do telegram proper, so can't get the video, but here's a reassuring video about a Ukrainian tard forcibly conscripted who was taken prisoner. I wonder if the downie we saw a couple of months back got away too.

 

[Betonhaus]

I'll agree that it's possible Trump will effectively do nothing, but I think he will negotiate an end to the war, but Russia will get most of what it wants: a demilitarized Ukraine, legal recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk by the UN if not full annexation, and a return of assets seized by sanctions. Neocons will squeal, but regular people with empathy will be glad the war is over. Trump might able to keep Odessa Ukrainian while also delegating NATO defense to Western Europe to compensate, so Anglo warhawks will still have enough power to cause trouble.

Negotiating from weakness is not good, but failing to do anything is worse for him.

Except I don't really think Russia would benefit at all from negotiating a peace treaty. The international assets stings a little bit but they can do without. Russia has no reason to believe they won't get kicked off Swift or have their assets frozen again in the future, and they have no reason to believe Ukraine will honor a peace treaty. Ukraine literally can't stop Russia from taking anything they want, and support for the war is high.

NATO has proven itself to be a faithless negotiator, and has broken the Minsk agreement twice. To Russia any Minsk 3 agreement will just be an excuse for Ukraine to quietly build up millitary power for yet another strike on Russian territory.

Accounting for the fact that the agreement is a lie is no better then just continuing to keep Ukraine a warfront, even if it steps down to entrenching and watching.

 

[Caddo Cobgang]

The best Trump could handle this is to offer Ukraine some token financial support and "good luck, you're on your own" as in shit yourself and do nothing. Boots on the ground means nukes fly, withdrawing fully means bad PR at home, NATO itself is useless and can't officially join the conflict anyway, making any concedings to Russia would look very bad for a self-proclaimed master negotiator.

any peace deal on the part of Russia is going to demand recognition of his annexations, im not sure if Trump would go for that, but I think he should, also ideally Ukraine is to be barred from joining any military alliance.