The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

If you want to persuade me to see your side, you need to connect the dots. You will have a hard time doing so, though. There is a reason, after all, that questions about the holocaust are not tolerated. The event doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Listen all I think Kola's studies show is that mass body destruction and burial took place at these places, on a scale far greater than even a few thousand bodies. It seems like you disagree with this, so that's why we're still stuck on the report.

The Canadian studies you referenced were different. They were completely non-invasive, using GPR. Kola extracted thousands of soil samples so I don't think you can compare them. They aren't anomalies but different materials precisely identified by Kola

(pictures below of the Sobibor dig, where massive amounts of ash were also found)

Kola identified eg "body ashes", "carbonised wood, fragments of burnt human bones, pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human fat, and fragments of unburned human bones. The bottom layer consisted of putrid wax-fat transformation. " There's nothing mysterious about this, and since he was able to do multiple drills per grave, he found the presence of layers, meaning the same materials were distributed across the entire grave per layer.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

There's nothing mysterious about this, and since he was able to do multiple drills per grave, he found the presence of layers, meaning the same materials were distributed across the entire grave per layer.

You say they aren't mysterious, but who are the people who were cremated? How long ago were they cremated? How did they die before cremation? How many were cremated? Those are all perfectly reasonable questions.

Thus far, you've only been able to answer them by speaking of coincidences, which is not the same as fact. *This is a death camp. How do we know? Because of the human remains we found. How do we know the remains belong to jews? Because this is a death camp*

Circular reasoning will not convince anyone who isn't already convinced. You should think about why it is unacceptable, and even illegal in some places, to ask the questions I've asked, perfectly reasonable questions at that. Why is it the holocaust can't be scrutinized?

 

[Chugger]

You say they aren't mysterious, but who are the people who were cremated? How long ago were they cremated? How did they die before cremation? How many were cremated? Those are all perfectly reasonable questions.

We can get into all of this, but it seems like you're still hung up on the question of whether there was mass body destruction and burial at the site. If you agree with me that the study strongly indicates that there was we can move on to these other questions, which are all good and important.

I'll answer your first question about who was cremated. It was the people sent there. German documents specify this was Jews not capable of work. Employable Jews were not sent there, but filtered out beforehand.

"
1) It would be expedient to divide the Jews in the transports coming into the district of Lublin already at the departure station into those capable and those not capable of work. If this separation is not possible at the departure station, one must then switch over to dividing the transport in Lublin according to the above-mentioned viewpoint.

2) Jews not capable of work must all go to Belzec, the furthest border station in Kreis Zamosc."

 

[Dawdler]

When you go to jail for "research", the only valid move is not to regurgitate the government propaganda.

Pro or against still fail for the same trap - holocaust is living for free inside their heads. The task of goverment lackeys is done - to create an eternal struggle between political wings and occupy their minds with mindless bullshit while they are taking money (your life) out of your pocket.

The only sane reasoning can be: Why should we even care ? It is just peer pressure from dead people, dead politicians and dead governments. It is completely irrelevant to modern life to bother about things that happened a century ago.

 

[Bonesjones]

(pictures below of the Sobibor dig, where massive amounts of ash were also found)

Post your sources you stupid fucking nigger. Reverse image search shows zero results for either.

Kola identified eg "body ashes",

Not in the picture

carbonised wood

That looks like charcoal

fragments of burnt human bones

Not in the pictures

pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached

Not in the pictures

lumps of greyish human fat

Guess what? Also not in the pictures

and fragments of unburned human bones

Surprise also nowhere to be found

The bottom layer consisted of putrid wax-fat transformation

You won't believe it, but it's also not there

There's nothing mysterious about this, and since he was able to do multiple drills per grave, he found the presence of layers, meaning the same materials were distributed across the entire grave per layer.

Yeah there's no mystery, he made it up. Wow holocaust denial is hard.

https://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/photo-gallery-the-excavation-of-sobibor-fotostrecke-119382.html

Also why is every "artifact" from this dig gingerly placed ontop of the sand and not in situ

The bone is held in such a way it can't easily be identified. The dentures may be period correct but it's hard finding anything on Google to compare to.

 

[Neodanthril]

Why should we even care ?

The Holocaust myth was created to justify the creation of the modern state of israel. The us government is ran as if it was a Israeli colonial government. Questioning this state of affairs inevitably goes back to the Holocaust. The entire post war international order is founded upon the Holocaust myth, and denying it is vital to challenging the status quo

 

[Imperial Citizen]

The only sane reasoning can be: Why should we even care ? It is just peer pressure from dead people, dead politicians and dead governments. It is completely irrelevant to modern life to bother about things that happened a century ago.

It’s 12 million people died. Even if you don’t believe it was intentional killings, and believe it was due to disease outbreaks and the killing of partisans, then it’s still a massive loss of life. People treated differently because of their ethnic backgrounds, rounded up and put into camps. No group of people should be forced to go through that experience. The Holocaust is therefore a warning of what not to do.

The Holocaust myth was created to justify the creation of the modern state of israel.

Not true. Israel was justified by the pogroms and rising antisemitism in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Jews were setting up their homeland decades before the Holocaust. They had enough of a population and were already trying to violently kick out the British when WW2 began. Not to mention that most of the world superpowers were not supportive of Israel until the late 60s, which had to do with Israeli victory in the 6-day war.

 

[Dawdler]

Covid killed 7 million allegedly and won't hear about it in 10 years

 

[Kovachs]

The Holocaust myth was created to justify the creation of the modern state of israel

Isn't it revisionists who claim the real "final solution" was a proposed plan for the relocation of Jews to Israel or some other Jewish state?

According to the principles of ethnopluralism, which Neo-Nazis claim to believe in, every ethnic group has a right to their own homeland. Except for Jews, apparently.

 

[Bonesjones]

It’s 12 million people died.

Communists killed over a million in a German civil war. Why don't you care about the crimes of communism? It's over 100 million in the last century alone.

Even if you don’t believe it was intentional killings, and believe it was due to disease outbreaks and the killing of partisans, then it’s still a massive loss of life.

So?

People treated differently because of their ethnic backgrounds, rounded up and put into camps.

Yeah like the Holomdor which jews worldwide covered up. More real than the holocaust btw.

No group of people should be forced to go through that experience.

Well the jews were free to leave Germany, they just didn't. I guess you left that part out. Wonder why?

The Holocaust is therefore a warning of what not to do.

Don't leave jews alive? It's becoming more readily apparent.

Not true. Israel was justified by the pogroms and rising antisemitism in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Why were people antisemitic exactly? You never tell people that for some reason. Is it because it's justice?

Jews were setting up their homeland decades before the Holocaust.

They were given many locations all over earth by many different countries, yet they picked the most belligerent place. Why is that?

They had enough of a population and were already trying to violently kick out the British when WW2 began.

Hmm. So why should we pity them at all? They can't not cause trouble anywhere they go.

Not to mention that most of the world superpowers were not supportive of Israel until the late 60s, which had to do with Israeli victory in the 6-day war.

Or because they had nuclear weapons stolen from other countries and threatened to destroy the world with the Samson option.

Isn't it revisionists who claim the real "final solution" was a proposed plan for the relocation of Jews to Israel or some other Jewish state?

You mean the stated goals and aspirations of the Nazis was revisionists history? You aren't smart.

According to the principles of ethnopluralism, which Neo-Nazis claim to believe in, every ethnic group has a right to their own homeland. Except for Jews, apparently.

What like Madagascar? Or the Jewish Autonomous Oblast? Or some island in the Atlantic offered them space, either Haiti or Cuba.


Oh look what I found

In 1492, the first Jew in Haiti was Luis de Torres

jews are real bad about hiding their work.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Covid killed 7 million allegedly and won't hear about it in 10 years

Well then that gets into more specifics. Covid is a disease. It wasn’t directed operation to wipe out specific groups of people. You don’t see memorials to remember those who died of the Spanish flu, because disease is just a fact of life. Government ordered mass murder isn’t.

Well the jews were free to leave Germany, they just didn't. I guess you left that part out. Wonder why?

Can’t fathom why a bunch of German citizens wouldn’t want to leave the country of their birth. Especially from a political party led by an Austrian foreigner told them to get the fuck out because he believed they were parasites.

 

[Kovachs]

You mean the stated goals and aspirations of the Nazis was revisionists history? You aren't smart.

Dude, you need to reformat your replies a bit. My comment was short enough that you don't need to have multiquotes, you absolute retard. Go back to reply-guying @Chugger.

My point wasn't about whether or not Nazi Germany really did have those aspirations, but that the revisionist narrative accepts those as factual as an integral part of explaining away their hypothesis for the Holocaust, and so believing that the "Holocaust Myth" exists for the purpose of the creation of the state of Israel is bizarre. The revisionist narrative also supports the creation of the state of Israel, particularly when it is being espoused by Neo-Nazis who justify their ideology on the explicit grounds that every ethnic group has a right to their own homeland.

And I can't help but notice the rest of your responses to @Imperial Citizen are rife with whataboutism. As if the only alternative to Nazism is to endorse the actions of the Soviets, including the Holodomer, Katyn Massacre, and so on. Those are largely unrelated. Nobody is denying the Holodomer here.. This is nothing more than whataboutism, a tactic which is ironically the mainstay of Soviet propaganda.

 

[Neodanthril]

According to the principles of ethnopluralism, which Neo-Nazis claim to believe in, every ethnic group has a right to their own homeland. Except for Jews, apparently.

Jews don't respect my right to an ethnostate, I have no reason to respect their claim to the idea of them having their own state.

plan for the relocation of Jews

Relocating ethnic minorities was a routine occurrence before the second world war, go look up Freddy Mercury's life story if you don't believe me. Other examples include the austro Hungarian empire moving Czechs into German areas and vice versa.

 

[Bonesjones]

2Can’t fathom why a bunch of German citizens wouldn’t want to leave the country of their birth. Especially from a political party led by an Austrian foreigner told them to get the fuck out because he believed they were parasites.

Jews and communists are one in the same and communism is for parasites, just look at Marx a Jewish parasite of the worst kind.

Dude, you need to reformat your replies a bit. My comment was short enough that you don't need to have multiquotes, you absolute retard. Go back to reply-guying @Chugger.

I'll post how I want, retard. I've been posting in this thread for years and what have you done?

My point wasn't about whether or not Nazi Germany really did have those aspirations, but that the revisionist narrative accepts those as factual as an integral part of explaining away their hypothesis for the Holocaust, and so believing that the "Holocaust Myth" exists for the purpose of the creation of the state of Israel is bizarre.

You should really read some history books, since you are clearly ignorant of it.

The revisionist narrative also supports the creation of the state of Israel, particularly when it is being espoused by Neo-Nazis who justify their ideology on the explicit grounds that every ethnic group has a right to their own homeland.

I don't give a shit about narrative nor do I push one, I engage in science.

And I can't help but notice the rest of your responses to @Imperial Citizen are rife with whataboutism.

You don't know what that means nor how to apply it.

As if the only alternative to Nazism is to endorse the actions of the Soviets, including the Holodomer, Katyn Massacre, and so on. Those are largely unrelated. Nobody is denying the Holodomer here.. This is nothing more than whataboutism, a tactic which is ironically the mainstay of Soviet propaganda.

So when communist jews engage in genocide it's largely unrelated? When communist jews do the exact thing that they blame the Nazis for, it doesn't matter? The fact is the Soviets killed more jews than the Nazis could conceive of. You know who did deny the holomdor? The New York Times, they and Durante won a Pulitzer for it. They refuse to give the award back even after caught being Soviet mouthpiece. So why would a group of communists jews use their power and influence to push the holocaust while denying real genocide? I guess it's a total mystery.

 

[Neodanthril]

the "Holocaust Myth" exists for the purpose of the creation of the state of Israel

The Israel declaration of Independence explicitly mentions the Holocaust as a reason for it's founding

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/truman-israel/

The Nazi holocaust, which engulfed millions of Jews in Europe, proved anew the urgency of the re-establishment of the Jewish state, which would solve the problem of Jewish homelessness by opening the gates to all Jews and lifting the Jewish people to equality in the family of nations.

 

[Bonesjones]

The Israel declaration of Independence explicitly mentions the Holocaust as a reason for it's founding

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/truman-israel/

Don't forget their genocidal killings of Palestinians they openly admit to. The holocaust is real in their minds because that's exactly what they do when given the chance.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

The Israel declaration of Independence explicitly mentions the Holocaust as a reason for it's founding

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/truman-israel/

“Proved anew the urgency” A component for why the country should be established. The main justification was in the first main paragraph.

The land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and national identity was formed. Here they achieved independence and created a culture of national and universal significance. Here they wrote and gave the Bible to the world.

The fact is the Soviets killed more jews than the Nazis could conceive of.

Why did the Soviets, led by communist Jews, engage in the mass-murder of communist Jews? Doesn’t that hurt their communist agenda to kill more of their kind?

 

[Bonesjones]

Why did the Soviets, led by communist Jews, engage in the mass-murder of communist Jews? Doesn’t that hurt their communist agenda to kill more of their kind?

Even Stalin knew his life would be short surrounded by jews, so he killed them first. Never forget Communists are too stupid to boil water, just look at Chernobyl.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

German documents specify this was Jews not capable of work. Employable Jews were not sent there, but filtered out beforehand.

If you can present evidence that the ashes were jews, and they were killed by gassing in the 1940s, I will agree with you. Please keep in mind what we discussed about evidence and burden of proof.

 

[Neodanthril]

A component for why the country should be established.

I'm glad we agree. And that the Zionist movement proceeds the Holocaust only proves that Jews had motivation to fabricate the Holocaust to achieve their ends and had the opportunity to take advantage of their internment during the war towards that end.