Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It is just a convenient comparison. Star Trek doesn't have comparable powerscaling, no mages etc.

Yes it does. What do you call Q and the Borg? They literally pull magic or technobabble out of their ass to be able to warp reality or fuck with time.

I said I had a problem with Palpatine getting OP powers, because it fucks with the films.

That has got to be the biggest piece of shit excuse I've ever heard. So what, just because he was at a set power level in the films, no film character can get stronger down the line? Oh, I suppose Goku has to stay at below SSJ range, because a good number of his films take place before he achieves his Super Saiyan form on Namek.

They openly explain in the films that the Force is more powerful than the Death Star, and that Palpatine in Dark Empire got a power boost from the spirits of the ancient Sith who helped him get back to the real world. That, and Palpatine on Endor wasn't taking things seriously because he believed everything was under control. He thought his forces were winning, he thought Luke was either going to join him or die, he didn't lose control until Vader betrayed him, LITERALLY AT THE LAST MINUTE. If he thought he was losing, he'd have broken out the Force Storms and vaporized the Rebel Fleet.

And yes, 40k's Emperor could do the same,

No he could not. If Emps from 40K could do what Dark Empire Palpatine could do, he'd have decimated Horus' fleet with a Force Storm, teleported Horus into a prison where he could exorcise him later, then when he and Horus have their little slap-fight that ends with both of them taken out of commission, Emps would come back a day later in a new clone body and keep running the Imperium post-Heresy, as if Horus' little riot never happened.

Vitiate in his form as Valkorion is very much like him. Just less roids and more success with women.

Valkorion is way more powerful and way more of a threat. Last time I checked, the Emperor of Mankind couldn't destroy planets, nor did he threaten to destroy galaxies.

Valkorion broke the minds of the Sith Lords on Nathema and forced them to join in on his ritual which destroyed the planet. If the Emperor of Mankind was that strong, he'd have broken the minds of Lorgar and the Word Bearers and forced them to accept his godless will instead of just making them kneel.

To make it 40k, it would be like making Creed have primarch powers, or to Star Trek it, making Kirk half Q. Which was done with Sisko and it was pretty silly.

Again, the same SW crowd that loved the main trilogy accepted Dark Empire and the Tales of the Jedi comics which had those OP powers, especially since Darth Vader, who was the main villain for 2/3rds of the series, said that the Force makes the Death Star look like a pile of shit.

And no, it wasn't in the metaphorical "the Force can affect minds ergo it's better than a planet-killing superlaser" way, since Lucas himself green-lit both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, and he later green-lit Force Unleashed, the three works which made OP Jedi and Sith had his personal blessing. Especially Dark Empire, which was originally going to be a more subtle series about a Darth Vader impostor using superweapons, and Force Unleashed, which was originally just going to be a Wookiee game where he goes "HULK SMASH!" Lucas came in and made the former be a story about OP Palpatine, and the latter into a story about Vader's OP apprentice.

So even if we go by Word of God status, the actual creator of Star Wars approves of the literal interpretation of Vader's words on the Force.

The problem is not the power, but adding in power to a completed character that the character could have used but did not use, because it was written later.

Again, Palpatine thought Endor was all fine and dandy. Notice how he acted like he was in control the entire time-because he was under the delusion that all was well. Gee, it's almost as if his overconfidence is his weakness or something........if only someone had the balls to say that to his face. Oh wait, Luke DID say that to his face, last I checked.

Also, even the Thrawn Trilogy is guilty of this, since they invented Battle Meditation, quite possibly the most broken power in the series save for the Sith blowing up planets and star systems, since it allows one side to win against the other just by having a Jedi influence their minds to a collossal degree. Instead of just affecting one mind, it's affecting the entire battlefield, sapping the power and strength of the enemy while empowering the user's allies. They used it to explain why Palpatine's men were doing well in the first half of the Battle of Endor, but why they sucked in the second half when he got distracted by Luke and later killed.

So even from the start, the SWEU was coming up with broken-ass powers that makes 40K look like a joke. One dude meditating can help a tired, battered, and defeated mess crush a powerful, organized army.

So like making Obiwan be immune to decapitation. Why he didn't use it against Vader? Insert Critical drinker fart noises.

You mean, like when he disappeared when Vader struck him? Or when appeared as an all-seeing ghost form that was immortal and far more powerful than his human form? At that point, a neck made of beskar is piss compared to what Kenobi actually did in the films.

Capeshit is just retarded so I don't know about that.

And yet you people tolerate 40K, which does things that are just as stupid. I mean, if we're talking retarded, then 40K makes most capeshit series look down-to-earth and rational by comparison.

You have a society suffering from technological stagnation, a populace getting worked to the bone in manufactorums, getting drafted to get shot or devoured by demons or aliens, most of the people living in squalor and fear, the Imperium is at its breaking point, yet they have more plot armor than fucking Superman. It gets pretty boring reading about the fall of Cadia or the Blood Angels facing a Tyranid horde knowing that once the dust settles, the Imperium will be fine, nothing will have changed, because Space Marines sell well and they can't possibly afford to have their faction fall apart. That's more unbelievable than any capeshit story I've read that didn't involve Superboy Prime punching reality.

At the very least, we saw the Republic fall in the Prequels, we saw the Empire fall in the OT and the SWEU, and we saw the New Republic fall in the SWEU. The Mandalorians went from a galaxy-spanning invasion force to a bunch of mercenaries huddling around in a single planet. The Sith went from a galactic empire to two dudes plotting in the sidewalk. Things actually change. There's real stakes involved.

 

[Male Idiot]

Q and the borg are more plot devices than actual antagonists. They do just what the script needs them to.

40k Emperor could do a lot, but didn't because well, he is a plot device and has to mysteriously stand there and cryptically do... something. Just because you have a very basic understanding of the lore behind it, and he doesn't just one-shoot every planet, that is not an indicative of character power. Yoda didn't need to always jump around to be strong either.

Palpatine on the other hand is an active character with a well defined arc and themes. Yes, SWEU just did shit because they wanted to do... something, so it was always Palpatine and new superweapon but even deadlier and spookier.

That is just bad writing. Disney took its worst hints and ran with it with the sequels because they were afraid of doing anything new after prequel hate.

There is no reason for this super Palpatine to just let Vader chuck him down a shaft. It makes no sense. It also devalues Vader and Luke's victory.

40k is meant to be a setting that is there and not a character drama. It is perfectly balanced, as it should be.

Sorry if I don't take men in halloween costumes seriously. They are just silly. It has nothing to do with how powerful a character is. They are one dimensional children stories.

But you just childishly flail at my critique as a "nooo my guy is stronger" like the usual Vader vs Kirk spacebattles autism.

You fail to understand that the problem is that added material just isn't compatible with the films, and makes characters act nonsensical.

This isn't a problem with other, better SWEU stories that were set in older ages.

Naga Sadow could make stars explode with his meditation sphere.
Nihilus destroyed at least one world.
Valkorion at least one too, and he had other powers as well.
Yet I never had a problem with them.

In fact 40k only has the Emperor who destroyed an ork planet like that, and later killed Horus with a blast more focused than a laser, more destructive than an exploding star. Maybe he even destroyed an entire sector with a Warp storm later on.

Out of people with magic, SW wins 3 to 1. Even if we put Magnus there, it is still 3 to 2.

In fact, I think they make a good case for a story element of the Force fading and technological prowess improving.

The power of Sith and Jedi fades, to be replaced by technology, a tale similar to the modern world and its loss of virtue and spirituality.

Anime wins in the end. Look at my pretty pfp. She is Roon, with the strength and durability of a Kriegsmarine vessel.
She could theoretically beat Vader and perhaps even a Space Marine.
Plus she likes pudding. But she is just a side character.

Or look at reddit's favourite and only book. Harry Potter could turn Vader or Titus or even Superman or Goku into a frog. Game over.

Lets go autism to the extreme. Sonichu could run around at super speed to gather Vader, Calgar, Harry and Superman into a cluster, go out into a depot and grab a Vortex grenade, and set it off under them. Sonichu wins.

A character's magic or combat power level doesn't make them a better character.
Take Palpatine and the Emperor. The Emperor is stronger, but Palpatine is much more fleshed out.
Take the Old Republic. Vitiate is the same as the Emperor, a strong plot device that sometines talks. Then he becomes Valkorion and you get to know him, making him more like Palpatine.

Weaker characters aren't worse. There is Ciaphas Cain and Han Solo and Frodo and professor Heimedinger from Arcane. He is just a tiny ball of hair professor.

They are great, and they don't need the power to swap you for a frog or blow up your planet with a giant curseyehameha.

Empty character and raw power just gets you Rey Skywalker. She is strong, and that is all you can say about her.

What you need is a good story and a good character, and just adding in extra power doesn't substitute for it. It just makes the writers need cop outs like Battle Meditation or Clonetrooper mind control chips.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

What you need is a good story and a good character, and just adding in extra power doesn't substitute for it. It just makes the writers need cop outs like Battle Meditation or Clonetrooper mind control chips.

What you fail to understand is where the Force comes from. What was the inspiration for the Force? Was it just plain old Eastern mystic bullshit? No. It's a stand-in for the power of God. And not just the kind of God who heals the sick or makes people feel better or helps them get rid of their anger, it's the kind of God who kills the firstborn and splits the Red Sea in half. The kind of God who yells at a storm, and the storm falls silent. The kind of God who makes reality His plaything. The Force is a stand-in for the kind of cosmic power that, as Palpatine stated, would be considered by many to be unnatural.

It's not me who wants the Force to be that strong; it's the dude who made Star Wars who wants it to be that strong. The OT had technical limitations that prevented Lucas from pulling off that kind of shit, but in the later movies, the Jedi fight like superior beings with grace and skill; then in the parts of the SWEU THAT LUCAS PERSONALLY GOT INVOLVED WITH, you see Vader's master and his apprentice doing shit you'd see Superman or the Saiyans would do.

On the contrary, you're the one screaming that the Jedi should be weaker-despite the fact that Lucas made it abundantly clear that they are not. Sure, the chump-level Jedi are probably something your local Space Marine or Clone Commando can kill, God knows I've killed enough Jedi as a Stormtrooper in Battlefront 2 that said Stormtrooper is probably selling lightsabers to the highest bidder. But the higher tier Jedi and Sith would make them look like a joke. And we saw this behavior consistently; first Lucas has Vader say that the Force is greater than what is, at the time, the greatest sci-fi weapon in the universe. Then he takes a comic series that was supposed to be about a Vader impostor hiding behind the technological might of the Empire, and makes it about Palpatine respawning with clones and devouring whole fleets with Force Storms, ALONG with him using superweapons. Then he green-lights a Tales of the Jedi series where the Sith blow up star systems and could ensnare entire Battlegrounds with illusions and Battle Meditation. Then he has the Prequel Jedi fight faster and stronger than the OT Jedi. Then he takes a game that was originally supposed to be about a Wookiee version of the Hulk, and he then made it be about the Sith version of Kratos.

So it was clear as day that when Lucas had Vader say that the Force was greater than the Death Star, he wasn't being metaphorical.

If the Force was as weak as you'd want it to be, then Palpatine wouldn't bother with the Clone Wars or Order 66. The Jedi would be too weak to resist the Empire anyways; all they have are little laser swords and mind-tricks that even common criminals and junk dealers can shake off. Palpatine would just create a large Imperial state with the approval of the Senate, and the Jedi would be too weak to resist it, and they would naturally fade away and be a vestigial order until the last one dies a natural death.

40K isn't about that sort of thing. It's a decaying world where all you have are legends that could be true or false. Was the Emperor a god who denied his divinity? Or was he just a quack? You don't know. The fact that GW made a clear line in the sand and said that there is no 40K canon means everything is questionable. We don't even know if the Emperor could survive fighting Darth Sidious, let alone Valkorion or Nihilus. Maybe the EoM can kill them by just farting in their general direction. Or maybe they can kill him easily. Maybe the Emperor of Mankind sent that Warp storm that devoured a heretic fleet. Maybe he didn't, and the daemon-worshipers just got unlucky. Nothing is set in stone outside of the Imperium surviving so they can sell more Space Marines. The only thing constant in 40K is that they live in a superstitious, self-destructive world, and that the Imperium is in a hell of it's own making, because at least GW has made it abundantly clear through their own statements that the Imperium and its way of life is irrational, idiotic, and that it's destroying them. That at least is confirmed by the authors to be true.

The fact that you just whine about the higher powers of the Force being nothing more but shallow attempts to show power goes to show you didn't even read those stories or understand their meaning. Whenever Palpatine throws a Force Storm or used Battle Meditation against the good guys, it's a show of how they're not just fighting against another army, but the cosmic forces of evil, and they have to rely on the Light Side and redemption to defeat said evil. Luke and Leia used the Light Side to turn Palpatine's Force Storm against him and kill him with it. Luke's compassion redeemed Vader and got him to kill Palpatine, which ended his Battle Meditation spell for good and allowed the Rebels to win at Endor. It's a story of overcoming overwhelming evil through the power of faith, hope, and love. And the fact that it slipped your mind goes to show you don't understand Star Wars, much less 40K.

Especially considering the fact that 40K is very much guilty of what you accuse the SWEU of doing. Sure, the Emperor can kill Void Dragons or conjure warp storms with his mind, if you believe the rumors. But even if they're true, they have no real point in the story outside of being a myth used to prop up a dead man. And even if it isn't there, the story won't skip a beat, because the point of 40K is that everything is shit. Either the Imperium wins, and the people go on living in a theocratic, hellish existence that makes the Galactic Empire seem like heaven in comparison, or the Imperium loses, and the people are put out of their misery by aliens or demons. There's no point to the struggle. It all ends in failure, all because the authors wanted to scream "RELIGION BAD" and hammer that message into the fans' skulls.

Not to mention the fact that the only two movie-era space battles where Palpatine could've used Force Storm is on Endor and Coruscant, and there's good reason why he didn't use such power in those films. In the former, he was overconfident and felt that everything was under control, so he didn't feel the need to use Force Storms when he already thinks his men are winning. He's more mad that Luke defied him, so he focused all his anger and attention on tormenting the brat, which made him vulnerable to Vader's betrayal. A betrayal that lasted a few seconds; he barely had time to react and zap Vader a bit before he died. On Coruscant, both Republic and Separatist fleets are just actors in a play that he was staging, so he felt no need to show off. Not when both sides were playing things out Exactly as he wished, and he was still pretending to be a weak, muggle politician.

 

[Male Idiot]

I don't think jewish desert autism is a good source for Star Wars.

I liked the Force as the eastern yin yang bullshit, not as Jesus in Spaaace.

In fact I said I liked the theme of old historical Force users being stronger. Dark age of Forcenology, hah.

Gw is retarded, they say that, but they have been demistifying everything like its Midiclorian shop black friday.

The Emperor is pretty much now a reddit autist who can kill everything by farting at their general direction but doesn't because wooo, mystery, and everything is now "akshually, it is true but plot twist like we are Roundhead Rian!"

Like Disney, their authors are now doing le woke dance.

Both SW and 40k are going down the shitter thanks to wokery.

 

[Ghostse]

I won't go into too much PLing, but I know for a fact that a WH40K movie was at least being considered back in 2016 because a director I worked with at that time was a possible directing candidate. They scrapped that idea before it even came to pre-production. Many such cases. Normally, you don't hear about movies until they at least reach the pre-production stage.

Mind you, I have literally nothing to back that up since it was basically hearsay, so take it as the ramblings of an internet schizo.

And that's the thing, these movies aren't even in pre-production. They are just big news because they are Star Wars. There is also a better than zero chance that Disney is using their paid shills to put the news out so they can judge public reception.
i.e. Roundhead got greenlit for a trilogy as cope-play "Noooo the Last Jedi was hecking awesome and based and Disney wants more" and that shit vanished like a fart in the wind when outside of the paid shills literally no one was excited, even the people who went out of their way to make a show of prostate massaging to the "mature themes" of the film cinematic abortion. So instead of making three star wars movies Roundhead quietly went and focused his work on freebasing his own farts and makinf Bond a Gay Detective.

 

[Gorton Colu]

The issue of Palpatine having extreme power or not is not really the issue. It's an execution problem.

Shadow Hand Palpatine is inhabiting rapidly deteriorating clone bodies. Burning out over using force storms is not really a concern when you're already constantly dying.

It explains why Palps refrained from such demonstrations of power earlier. Him for awhile and Dooku till death did not have dark side eyes as they refrained from using dark side abilities constantly.

ROS Palpatine is just retarded, however.

 

[Male Idiot]

It kind of is a problem when its not done well.

Yoda having super agility burst was ok in the Prequels, and fans hated it. Palpatine throwing senate hover chairs was also fine.

It wouldn't have been ok if Return of the Sith had shown Yoda totally frail and only being wise by pitting him and Luke against a rancor, and requiring Porkins ghost to fly Luke's X wing to blast it.

I just dislike lazy writing by having Palpatine vs Luke all over again, but even more powerups, I find that it cheapens EP6.

I like consistency, and whenever its Disney, Lucasfilm, GW or Amazon doing a Lawdy of dem Rangz over it I get annoyed.

People flipped out over Starkiller's ISD tossing and Gabriel Angelos's terminator backflips.

Disney is just throwing out ideas, and hoping fans will latch onto one, so that KK can make bank and sure show that dirty white male Lucas who is better.

 

[Mob Boss Barbie]

Its not because she is a woman, its because she is a freakin palid stringbean with an accent that sounds like she just finished giving her Cambridge philosophy lecturer a blumpkin for extra credit so that daddy doesnt take away her seventeenth pony.

To comment on your paragraph before this too, I agree with you, they didn't do the costuming or makeup right for it. Skinny I'll give a pass, could have been wiry but bulkier muscles would take too much energy to build and maintain when she's supposed to be living meal to meal. But the accent? On Jakku? Why does the scrap heap girl sound like a Coruscanti politician? I'm only interested in the lore behind this decision, KK, I don't care about your horse girl fantasy.

Worse, the characterisation of "badass and hardened desert nomad survivor/scavenger" was utterly flubbed, and she is written like a bored teenage girl waiting for her parents to pick her up after sportsball practice

Here's my hot take that's really ice cold, the first mistake they made was not having her start out as numb and somewhat hopeless from growing up as a starving orphan on a sand ball unable to leave without help she would never get. But she's making pew pew noises in her blowup hut, how am I supposed to believe this character is having a hard time?

if Kathleen wanted her to be some super duper better-than-anakin prodigy

Wait, was that what they were attempting? Genuinely? Holy shit lmao that was not communicated to the audience at all. Leading characters doing and being things because of plot demands and not internal motivations or inherent nature is weak writing that will never result in a compelling character or narrative. She's inoffensive cardboard with no free will and no learned skills. This comparison to my boy is slanderous.

In competent hands your Mad Maxine idea is cool. I would have much rather watched that. But I think Kylo's janky lightsaber fits him better. It's a complete fuckup, just like he is.

 

[Judge Holden]

To comment on your paragraph before this too, I agree with you, they didn't do the costuming or makeup right for it. Skinny I'll give a pass, could have been wiry but bulkier muscles would take too much energy to build and maintain when she's supposed to be living meal to meal. But the accent? On Jakku? Why does the scrap heap girl sound like a Coruscanti politician? I'm only interested in the lore behind this decision, KK, I don't care about your horse girl fantasy.

Fun as a full on muscle mommy protagonist would be....and I apologise for use of the term "muscle mommy" but it is the international standard term for the kind of women we are referring to....when I called her a stringbean it was less that she was skinny and more that she was limp. If she was scrawny, wiry, or just plain rough and mean looking it would not be an issue. She just had to look convincingly like a chick who would have spent her life fighting for survival on a desert hell world.

the first mistake they made was not having her start out as numb and somewhat hopeless from growing up as a starving orphan on a sand ball unable to leave without help she would never get

Woulda been a nice contrast to "innocent farm boy who wants to see the galaxy" and "even more innocent slave boy who wants to become a jedi". Having someone actively anti-hero flavoured develop into an unironic good guy hero is central to why Han Solo became so popular and would have been a neat twist to see with the main protagonist.

Leading characters doing and being things because of plot demands and not internal motivations or inherent nature is weak writing that will never result in a compelling character or narrative

Of all the failures of TFA I see rarely discussed, the downright criminal wasting of Max Von Sydow as forgettable prologue extra is shit that could have so easily been flipped into a memorable asset.

Have him be Rey's adoptive parent or mentor or fuckin spice stick dealer if you want to go real edgy, and have her joining Finn and mexican guy (whose random disappearence on not-tattoine after crashing there with Finn and then reappearing halfway through the movie is so utterly baffling in hindsight) heading out into the galaxy being motivated purely by personal revenge at first before she realises how much bigger the stakes are.

Actually now I mention it, they shoulda just straight up swapped hers and Finn's characterisations. Have her be the uncertain and self doubting coward who sees how bad shit is and just wants to run the fuck back to the desert, while Finn is actively taking in and enjoying his new freedom from being a stormtrooper and acting like the naive hero guy.

Again though as so many have said, any of my hypothetical improvement ideas and indeed just about all the hypothetical improvement ideas previously mooted requires Rey to not already be the bestest and most perfect character in the universe with absolutely zero flaws or weaknesses from the getgo, which was the hard line Kathleen Kennedy would not allow crossed.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I don't think jewish desert autism is a good source for Star Wars.

That is the source for Star Wars. Like it or not. Hell, the guy who made Star Wars also made Indiana Jones, which was more Jewish Desert Autism since it involved the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant.

I liked the Force as the eastern yin yang bullshit, not as Jesus in Spaaace.

And yet the same thing happened with Eastern Yin Yang bullshit-they made it OP. The East turned their most famous fictional story into monkeys firing energy beams that can blow up moons and planets. So even if you turn to the East, you get the same shit. Hell, Dark Empire Palpatine felt like a DBZ character at times. He has the OP threat level of Freeza and the revival thing is something you'd see from the characters getting constantly revived by dragons. Except instead of dragons, Palpatine is body-surfing between clones.

In fact I said I liked the theme of old historical Force users being stronger. Dark age of Forcenology, hah.

And the fact that said Dark Side used by historical Force users anointed Palpatine as their avatar when Plagueis died never passed your thoughts?

Gw is retarded, they say that, but they have been demistifying everything like its Midiclorian shop black friday.

Yep. That's what the Black Library series did for the Primarchs. All that mystery, gone. But still, it was always their meaning from the start that the Imperium is in a hell of its own making.

The Emperor is pretty much now a reddit autist who can kill everything by farting at their general direction but doesn't because wooo, mystery, and everything is now "akshually, it is true but plot twist like we are Roundhead Rian!"

You mean Reddit Atheist. But that really isn't anything new. Even before the woke onslaught, he was the kind of fedora-tipping loser that you'd find in Reddit.

Like Disney, their authors are now doing le woke dance.

Both SW and 40k are going down the shitter thanks to wokery.

But 40K was woke to begin with. Its original authors were your standard British intellectual atheists who wanted to slap religion in the face, as opposed to Lucas who wanted to support religion with both Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

The issue of Palpatine having extreme power or not is not really the issue. It's an execution problem.

Shadow Hand Palpatine is inhabiting rapidly deteriorating clone bodies. Burning out over using force storms is not really a concern when you're already constantly dying.

It explains why Palps refrained from such demonstrations of power earlier. Him for awhile and Dooku till death did not have dark side eyes as they refrained from using dark side abilities constantly.

Which again, they didn't need to use such powerful displays when Palpatine pretty much believed that everything was under control.

There were only three times when Palpatine lost control of the situation: First in Revenge of the Sith, when Windu defeated him with Vapaad, but Anakin bailed his ass out, so he didn't need to go full Kamehameha on the black, bald Jedi. Then second was Return of the Jedi, when Luke told him to get fucked and Vader betrayed him. Again, the latter's betrayal was so quick that he barely had enough time to redirect some lighting to Vader's suit before he died. Third was when Luke and Leia turned his Force Storm against him, and it destroyed him. After that, he was set to lose, especially when his clone bodies got poisoned and the Ancient Sith refused to help him. He tried to steal a body from the Skywalkers and got killed.

ROS Palpatine is just retarded, however.

Because they were rushing a script and hurriedly adapting ideas from a story that they disavowed.

 

[Male Idiot]

The original Tatcher libtardism didn't last long, the reddit satire is their copout. It was just shit trown at the wall to make it stick.

But Lucas didn't really need Palpatine to be super sayan. His evil was mainly political, he was basically Adolf Nixon with prequels adding in Bush. Not Satan.

Luke's strength wasn't that he was uber powerful Forcefully or uber muscled like Rambo.
His strength was his character and spirit, refusing Vader's place as the Republican's right hand man.

He was a plucky everyman hero, just a regular dude who found out he was special because of his parents, despite being an average farmhand boy.

The theme of a spiritualist commoner vs a tyrannical, mechanised Empire was a core theme in the six films.

And the fact that said Dark Side used by historical Force users anointed Palpatine as their avatar when Plagueis died never passed your thoughts?

Not every idea is a good idea, JJ loved that idea so much, it became canon in EP9. I am all the Sith! And I am all the Jedi!

Lucas changed his mind on things, and not always for the better. Originally he wanted to make fun action movies. Flash Gordon's evil emperor was why Palpatine had magic, not because he is le Satan lol. Old people sometimes loose their touch, you don't need South Park to replace guns with walkie talkies for that.

Rey's problem isn't that she is not overly muscle bound, but that she is bland. She has power, but no personality and little struggles. Neither Luke nor Anakin was this weightlifting Conanchud.

Cade Skywalker was this antihero smuggler chud with a pink biker chick on the other hand...

 

[Judge Holden]

Rey's problem isn't that she is not overly muscle bound, but that she is bland. She has power, but no personality and little struggles. Neither Luke nor Anakin was this weightlifting Conanchud

Ok the whole "Uwu muscle dommy mommy Rey" thing I inadvertently introduced to the conversation is getting out of hand. I simply meant she looked absurdly fucking soft and limp and clean for someone surviving on a desert junk world, and she carried herself without any edge or hardness and acted more like a rich kid on vacation, which is why I think her casting was the first in a longass chain of unforced errors.

....also imma google image something real quiNOPE FUCK IT MOVING ON

Spoiler: NSFW

 

[Male Idiot]

Ok the whole "Uwu muscle dommy mommy Rey" thing I inadvertently introduced to the conversation is getting out of hand. I simply meant she looked absurdly fucking soft and limp and clean for someone surviving on a desert junk world, and she carried herself without any edge or hardness and acted more like a rich kid on vacation, which is why I think her casting was the first in a longass chain of unforced errors.

....also imma google image something real quiNOPE FUCK IT MOVING ON

Spoiler: NSFW

View attachment 6647901View attachment 6647902

That is absolutely horrifying, thank you I am le gay now.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The original Tatcher libtardism didn't last long, the reddit satire is their copout. It was just shit trown at the wall to make it stick.

That was their intention, now and even back then. It's just that they hired a few authors who loved Space Marines to make Space Marine books because Space Marines sold well. But that didn't erase their original intentions; they hated the fact that the Space Nazis they made to be despicable wound up being people's heroes. It's just that they were savvy enough to mooch money off those fans through books and media that portrayed the Space Marines and the Imperium as heroes, while constantly raising prices on the models so they can mooch every last red cent from those Space Marine-loving fuckers.

But Lucas didn't really need Palpatine to be super sayan. His evil was mainly political, he was basically Adolf Nixon with prequels adding in Bush. Not Satan.

Uh, dude, Lucas literally called Palpatine his version of the Devil. What rock have you been hiding under? He literally is the Star Wars version of Lucifer; an angel of light who drags people down into darkness, and look at what he did to Anakin.

Luke's strength wasn't that he was uber powerful Forcefully or uber muscled like Rambo.

I can't stop laughing at this sentence. Luke literally was their only hope because he was stronger in the Force than Vader and Sidious put together. Hell, Sidious feared the idea of Luke becoming a full-scale Jedi Knight because he could destroy them.

His strength was his character and spirit, refusing Vader's place as the Republican's right hand man.

That's only partially correct. But both Sith even noted that Luke is supremely powerful in the Force. Vader tells Luke that if he was fully trained, he could destroy the Emperor, and the latter even told Vader "he could destroy us!" Remember, this was after Vader choked a guy to death through the television, so Vader's cosmic power level was established to be very great.

He was a plucky everyman hero, just a regular dude who found out he was special because of his parents, despite being an average farmhand boy.

Luke was special because of his parents, not because he was the plucky everyman hero. That would be Han Solo, the actual everyman who works an actual job, his boss treats him like he's dogshit covered in vomit, he risks his normal ass fighting against the forces of evil, and he has no real powers from special parents whatsoever. He is the very definition of a badass normal on the team.

Luke started off as a member of the landed gentry; his family owns their land and a farm of their own. He was about to attend a prestigious flight school before Kenobi told him that he had the blood of nobility flowing through his veins. If Luke lived in 1700s America, he'd probably own slaves and a plantation. Hell, he was practically buying robot slaves when he met with the Jawas in ANH.

In a deleted scene, Biggs Darklighter tells Luke that the Empire might seize his family's estate and reduce them to tenants. That's something the everyman doesn't worry about, because the everyman IS a tenant. The average Joe doesn't own their own farm or own robot slaves. The average Joe doesn't have a fast track to a fancy flight school. Luke has all that, and that was before Kenobi told him that his dad was a knight, which makes him a member of the lower aristocracy.

The theme of a spiritualist commoner vs a tyrannical, mechanised Empire was a core theme in the six films.

Commoner? Nope. You have Leia, the spoiled princess. You have Luke, the son of a powerful Jedi Knight. That is not common at all. The only commoners would be Han, Chewie, and the droids.

Not every idea is a good idea, JJ loved that idea so much, it became canon in EP9. I am all the Sith! And I am all the Jedi!

Yet the idea of an OP character was an idea better executed in the SWEU than in 40K. At least Palpatine being an overly powerful bad guy made him a narrative challenge in Dark Empire; it was like Freeza in DBZ. You were amazed at his power, but you hated the fucker and wanted to see him dead. It created narrative investment into the story. The good guys needed to defeat this man, because if this dude who tossed a Force Storm and casually annihilated a fleet wins, his boot will forever be on the good guys' throats until they die. The idea of an OP character actually had a purpose; as a foil to the heroes who will have to rely on things like Faith, Hope, and Love to defeat this monster.

It's the opposite of 40K, where the Emperor of Mankind is an OP son of a bitch, but it doesn't matter, since he's long been comatose, and if the Emperor's OP feats all turned out to be bullshit lies the Imperium made up, nothing will have changed. The Emperor being OP adds nothing to the universe; the point of the 40K story is that life is shit, it will always be shit, and no matter who wins, they will still live in shit. Either the Imperium wins and the people continue to slowly die under a system that treats them worse than the Empire treated the Wookiees, or the Imperium loses, and the demons, heretics, and aliens put the humans out of their misery. The Emperor being OP adds nothing to that at all, and if it turns out that him being OP was all a lie, it won't change a damn thing.

The Emperor of Mankind being OP is the textbook definition of what you accuse Dark Empire Palpatine of being. Power without purpose. It's all there only for the sake of flexing. Or, for the sake of saying "religion bad" because the religious right was hated by those fart-huffing Britbong intellectuals, so they had the Catholic Space Nazis make up lies about their leader. Either way, it serves no purpose, and if it was taken out of the story, it wouldn't be missed.

Lucas changed his mind on things, and not always for the better. Originally he wanted to make fun action movies. Flash Gordon's evil emperor was why Palpatine had magic, not because he is le Satan lol. Old people sometimes loose their touch, you don't need South Park to replace guns with walkie talkies for that.

Lucas was always adamant that Palpatine was his version of Satan. Again, you didn't do your homework.

Hell, the actor for Palpatine, Ian McDairmid, even calls Palpatine WORSE than Satan. And that's the dude who plays the guy!

Rey's problem isn't that she is not overly muscle bound, but that she is bland. She has power, but no personality and little struggles.

But that's the difference. Palpatine has a personality, has history, and has a motivation. So him being OP makes total sense, since it adds to his character. Even the films would change drastically if Palpatine wasn't OP. The whole "Battle of Endor" thing would be null and void. You wouldn't need him to step into a space station for you to blow up, you wouldn't need his right-hand man to betray him at the last minute. You can just hire a sniper with an itchy trigger finger and blow the man's head clean off his shoulders when he goes to vacation in the Space Bahamas.

All those Rebels who died fighting on Endor? Darth Vader's sacrifice? That would've all been a waste of time and life. Just hire fucking Din Djarin or some other bounty hunter and disintegrate the old man when he's staying at some beach resort or something. Or have some guy plant a bomb in his shuttle, the way Jango tried to do with Padme.

Neither Luke nor Anakin was this weightlifting Conanchud.

Anakin was. In ROTS, he casually defeated a Dark Jedi Master that even the mighty Yoda could not defeat. And Palaptine even says that if Anakin fully trained in the Sith arts with all his power, he'd be able to raise the dead or create life like Plagueis did. He's basically so powerful that Palpatine believed he can do the impossible.

Cade Skywalker was this antihero smuggler chud with a pink biker chick on the other hand...

He was also very powerful; hence why Darth Krayt sought him out to solve his own issues.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

@Male Idiot

And yes, 40k's Emperor could do the same, Vitiate in his form as Valkorion is very much like him. Just less roids and more success with women.

Old 40k lore from Rogue Trader up to around 3.5 or 4th edition, the God Emperor had been extremely successful with women and had a lot of children before 30K when he decided to be the God Emperor. His direct descendents were known as the Sensei and were the closest thing to honest to God unironic good guys in the WH40K. The Inquisition had it in the head that if they hunt and render down every single last Sensei, underwear gnome blank, the God Emperor will be reborn as the Star Child.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@Male Idiot Old 40k lore from Rogue Trader up to around 3.5 or 4th edition, the God Emperor had been extremely successful with women and had a lot of children before 30K when he decided to be the God Emperor. His direct descendents were known as the Sensei and were the closest thing to honest to God unironic good guys in the WH40K. The Inquisition had it in the head that if they hunt and render down every single last Sensei, underwear gnome blank, the God Emperor will be reborn as the Star Child.

He existed long before the 30K era and obviously had a lot of contact with the fairer sex before deciding to put on a crown.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Another similarity between the Master of Orion series, and "Legends" Star Wars: both have GNN (Galactic News Network).

 

[Judge Holden]

Oh dear...

 

[Male Idiot]

Hm, both Palpatine and Emperor had sensei in their earliest retconned forms.

It was retconned to Autism for the Emperor, and into clone sons for Palpatine to somehow make Rey his grand and actual daughter.

It is interesting how they were both made into "too busy plotting to woman chase".

Chad Vitiate on the other hand had a proper wife. His sons did the Horus so... but he at least got laid!

As for the Emperor being overpowered, it was fine because he wasn't really used for anything. He was like Jesus in a game about the crusades. Mentioned but not showing up. He had no movie scenes where he didn't use powers he should have etc, his only scene was his epic duel with Horus.

Obviously they fucked that up too.

But back to the topic, who will the next Bob be? Will they finally make KK the head of Disney?

 

[Overpriced Gaming Chair]

The issue of Palpatine having extreme power or not is not really the issue. It's an execution problem.

Shadow Hand Palpatine is inhabiting rapidly deteriorating clone bodies. Burning out over using force storms is not really a concern when you're already constantly dying.

It explains why Palps refrained from such demonstrations of power earlier. Him for awhile and Dooku till death did not have dark side eyes as they refrained from using dark side abilities constantly.

ROS Palpatine is just retarded, however.

To add to the long list of "stuff in prequel films that is only properly explained in external materials/sources":

Apparently, what Palpatine looks like after the Mace Windu fight is his real face. He had used a Sith technique simply called "Mask" to hide it. The force lightning reflected back to him not only shed the disguise, but due to some unspecified complexity of the technique, it also prevents him from ever reapplying it again. So he plays it off with the famous/infamous "The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed" -line.