Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Judge Dredd]

Opening the 5e variant can of worms might have been a mistake. One guy came to me with a 5e variant called Spheres of Power and ...I'm not going anywhere near it.

Classes, spells, feats, it's all thrown out in favour of a long list of boons and flaws called spheres. The basic idea is you combine these to create an effect, like an incredibly autistic super hero game. So a fireball might be (to make shit up) a fire element boon, a ranged attack boon, an aoe boon, and a flaw of requiring mana to cast. Every ability works this way, even martials. Even weapon proficiencies are part of this.

The thing is, there's dozens of spheres each with dozens of boons and flaws, each of which can be combined in many ways almost infinitely. As a DM, there's no way I can keep this straight. Or maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. Here's a level 1 character.

It reminds me of my PF1 days where the DM said "just choose a feat from this list" and dropped a link to a web page with over 600 feats on it.

 

[The Ugly One]

Someone busted out a 3/3.5 era fumble table the other day and it was awesome. Highly recommend bringing it back if you want to spice up those nasty combat 1s.

Yeah, the fighter needs do be more fucked than he already is at high levels by having a 14% chance of fumbling every round.

 

[AnOminous]

That's because fumbles punish players disproportionately. A NPC is likely to only meet a single fumble before they're either killed or otherwise leave the story, while players have to withstand the effects of likely multiple fumbles per adventure. It goes double when the fumbles have lasting effects like sprains, lost/destroyed gear and whatnot.

After I moved away from strict hack and slash dungeon crawling in my early teens to serious play, part of the purpose of having things like this were to discourage just instantly attacking everything, because even a fight with "common" enemies could end up disastrously. Meanwhile, with the vanilla hit point system, you were generally operating at full potency even at 1 hp, so long as you topped it off after the fight, there were no real consequences.

With fumbles, crits, potentially ghastly and permanent results, just wading into combat becomes a much less viable strategy.

This is sort of similar to the issue with consumables, where the NPCs can just fire as many arrows or whatever at you as they have, they're either dead or you're not encountering them again, so it isn't a big deal. Meanwhile if your archer dude has blown all his arrows, that could be real trouble (usually I'd have a fletcher skill available and you'd be dumb not to have it if you depended on having arrows).

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

I kicked out three of my players for insulting Gary gygax and getting an appointment argument calling miss sexist I stand by that decision screw those people.
What's the one guy left after giving me like a 20 minute lecture about how he did not like the way I was dming it's like I'm going to critique you but I also told him at the end but you're leaving So what does it matter.

Other than that my other game went pretty well they successfully knocked out all of the dogs they were supposed to rescue for the kennel master

 

[Ghostse]

Opening the 5e variant can of worms might have been a mistake. One guy came to me with a 5e variant called Spheres of Power and ...I'm not going anywhere near it.

Classes, spells, feats, it's all thrown out in favour of a long list of boons and flaws called spheres. The basic idea is you combine these to create an effect, like an incredibly autistic super hero game. So a fireball might be (to make shit up) a fire element boon, a ranged attack boon, an aoe boon, and a flaw of requiring mana to cast. Every ability works this way, even martials. Even weapon proficiencies are part of this.

The thing is, there's dozens of spheres each with dozens of boons and flaws, each of which can be combined in many ways almost infinitely. As a DM, there's no way I can keep this straight. Or maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. Here's a level 1 character.

It reminds me of my PF1 days where the DM said "just choose a feat from this list" and dropped a link to a web page with over 600 feats on it.

I kinda dig it from a gurps perspective of "built what you want"
but also wouldn't go near it also for gurps reasons of "fuck this I want a hobby not a job"

 

[AnOminous]

I kicked out three of my players for insulting Gary gygax and getting an appointment argument calling miss sexist I stand by that decision screw those people.

Fuck anyone insulting Gary Gygax. Behead all those who insult Gary Gygax. You did the right thing.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

One guy came to me with a 5e variant called Spheres of Power and ...I'm not going anywhere near it.

Pretty certain it was a Pathfinder supplement, think I saw a review of another one they did called Spheres of Might. In principle the ideas seem good and I cannot lie, that options included a way to tame animals through successful Ride checks was amusing. However it's like everything else in the d20 space, more options open up more room to break things.

 

[2LtMashengo]

That's because fumbles punish players disproportionately. A NPC is likely to only meet a single fumble before they're either killed or otherwise leave the story, while players have to withstand the effects of likely multiple fumbles per adventure. It goes double when the fumbles have lasting effects like sprains, lost/destroyed gear and whatnot.

My table uses them for PF, we mitigate this by confirming them like crits. That is to say that if you roll a 1 on an attack roll, you then roll a second time and if you miss it's a fumble. Keeps them from happening too often, and has led to some very fun moments.
We are deeply autistic chanting of "FUMBLE CHART" starts whenever a 1 is rolled though, so that may bias this.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Yeah, the fighter needs do be more fucked than he already is at high levels by having a 14% chance of fumbling every round.

This is the clownshoes monk I mentioned, where when you're spamming lots of attacks a round, suddenly you monk is falling over and breaking things every other turn.

The solution is easy imo. Fumbles only on the first roll. Confirm a fumble. Or make it an option for "inspiration" or some other similar meta token.

Pretty certain it was a Pathfinder supplement, think I saw a review of another one they did called Spheres of Might. In principle the ideas seem good and I cannot lie, that options included a way to tame animals through successful Ride checks was amusing. However it's like everything else in the d20 space, more options open up more room to break things.

Yes. It started as two PF1 supplements. Spheres of Power for magic, and Spheres of Might for martials, but they were combined for a 5e port. The video I posted was for the PF version, but the 5e version is basically the same. It's all in a wiki which is nice, but fuck reading all this.

http://spheres5e.wikidot.com/

PF2 has way to many feats, but at least it has the decency to limit your choices or 1 from a pool of 4 per pick.

I don't think his goal was to min max, but to create a specific kind of character. As a DM I'd have to put all the work on the players and take their word for it. I can barely keep up with PathFinder 2 characters and their abilities. I even stated at the start of the campaign that I can't keep track of every characters abilities and rules, so if you forget something I can't help.


Speaking of which. I found out why the mage in Nimble 5e was playing like shit. He was stuck in the mindset that it worked like 5e and Pathfinder.

 

[Ghostse]

My table uses them for PF, we mitigate this by confirming them like crits. That is to say that if you roll a 1 on an attack roll, you then roll a second time and if you miss it's a fumble. Keeps them from happening too often, and has led to some very fun moments.
We are deeply autistic chanting of "FUMBLE CHART" starts whenever a 1 is rolled though, so that may bias this.

I usually have player roll again on a natural 1 to see how bad it is. 11+ its just a miss, 6-10 you have a minor fuckywucky like you might grant combat advantage for a turn or be at -1 or 2 for attacks, 2 or 3 to 5 you get either a worse penalty or a longer one (depends on battle), and 1 (and sometimes two depending on situation) the dice clearly want your dead and as the GM I am but a conduit for their will. Expect to need to go retrieve your weapon at a minimum.

I also ruled during my most recent 4e campaign that Enounters/Dailies were immune from negative effects of fumbles as just having the attack miss was penalty enough.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

Pulling out a fumble table every time someone rolls a 1 has the same energy as some millenial faggot arguing that his level 3 artificer should be able to build a nuclear reactor because he rolled a 20 on a crafting check.

 

[The Ugly One]

With fumbles, crits, potentially ghastly and permanent results, just wading into combat becomes a much less viable strategy.

The problem is your chance of fumbling in a round goes up as you get more attacks, so your high-level fighter fumbles more often than a low-level fighter. Your chance of fumbling when multiattacking:

1 attack: 5%
2 attacks: 10%
3 attacks: 14%
4 attacks: 19%

So at high levels, your 3.5 fighter is dropping his weapon or accidentally stabbing his friends 1 out 5 rounds. Might as well expel him from the party and hire another cleric.

 

[Henri Barbusse]

All those fumbles are baby shit compared to Pendragon where if you fumble a passion roll, you go mad and are out of the game until the GM decides you can come back. And you can't avoid rolling passions because if your passion is high enough, rolling it is mandatory when it applies. 1 in 20 chance of losing a character for indeterminate amount of time is pretty rough.

 

[Brain Problems]

Had no idea that fumble tables were so controversial. Maybe if I was born in the darkness, raised in it I'd have a different opinion. No one has ever used it before so it felt novel to everyone at the table. It was being applied to enemies equally and resulted in some amusing situations. Reading the comment I can get where the hate is coming from.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Chris Pramas is a self described member of ANTIFA Link (see his bio on twitter), has a vitriolic hatred for white people, and his products reflect this. Publishes "Blue Rose", the gay RPG. Proto SJWs, they were making political statements in their games before anyone else was."

Seeing what's happening with Twitch and big tech protecting leftists backfiring and costing them millions. Gamers could wipe out half the Woke faggots, trannies and SJWs by documenting all those creators posting antisemitism online in the name of leftism and Palestine. Overnight, the ADL started freaking out over Antifa and BLM after both groups displayed open support for Hamas.

Its just too bad I guess that the DCC guys turned full cuck.

Math is racist will be the name of my new indie rpg, it caters to furries especially.

Remember how Hasbro did layouts at WOTC for 6E's disappointing sales and WOTC supposedly broke records at the same time? Hasbro is being sued by investors for being caught lying about poor product sales and throwing away magic cards to manipulate the market. I have a feeling there is going to be a TTRPG market crash. Now that fake geek culture, Hollywood is artificially propped up dying with capeshit movies. Hell even the popular with critical role declining. I still stand behind the 5E market boom that was caused by Funko pop collectors and most fake geeks never played 5E Dungeons and Dragons. Why do you think Matt Mercer's awful D&D killer RPG is just a glorified storytelling game? He knows most of his fans have never played D&D.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Had no idea that fumble tables were so controversial. Maybe if I was born in the darkness, raised in it I'd have a different opinion. No one has ever used it before so it felt novel to everyone at the table. It was being applied to enemies equally and resulted in some amusing situations. Reading the comment I can get where the hate is coming from.

As @The Ugly One mentioned, the hate comes from a flaw that come with multi-attacks. It's easily house ruled around but for whatever reason, people don't want to. Oddly enough, Pathfinder 2's measure of a crit fail might work better here. Or worse, I'm not sure.

I agree though. Failure and randomness can be fun. I remember one of the first games I ran was a Silent Hill inspired one shot where the zombie nurses and player characters were rolling fumble after fumble, resulting a cartoon of everybody tripping over each other and dropping rusty scalpels everywhere. Good times. I like wild magic for the same reason. Again, a memorable encounter where wild magic turned a mundane encounter is complete bedlam, and it was great. My one issue with wild magic is that, even with a d100 table, after a surprising small number of sessions the same things pop up again and again.

It's like the claim that getting 30 people in a room, there's a 50% chance two will share a birthday. It doesn't make sense on it's face, but when you sprout butterfly wings three sessions in a row, it starts to lose it's appeal.

I have a feeling there is going to be a TTRPG market crash.

You're in one. The video you linked mentions how MTG cards are being dumped into landfills and star wars toys are filling discount resellers. DnD 24 (or whatever they're calling it) is the best selling, fastest selling RPG of all time. Of the RPG people I know, only one bought it. And I'm not even sure of that as I didn't see the book, just that he talked about it so I'm giving WotC the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Adamska]

Had no idea that fumble tables were so controversial. Maybe if I was born in the darkness, raised in it I'd have a different opinion. No one has ever used it before so it felt novel to everyone at the table. It was being applied to enemies equally and resulted in some amusing situations. Reading the comment I can get where the hate is coming from.

In my experience with them, they far more often fuck over the player than the enemies, since the GM can just bullshit more stuff when it hits them. Like a monster breaks its weapon? Neat. The player, with their limited resources by comparison, breaks their weapon? Fuck off.

It's why I prefer the super criticals charts that Fantasy Flight made for Dark Heresy and what Warhammer Fantasy RPG's one did. Feels much more fair. Like sure, the Skaven managed to melt my charging rat catcher into a pile of greasy flesh and burnt bones, but in fairness the same happened earlier, when the Rat Catcher managed to saw the head off of the Rat Ogre.

 

[Corn Flakes]

In my experience with them, they far more often fuck over the player than the enemies, since the GM can just bullshit more stuff when it hits them. Like a monster breaks its weapon? Neat. The player, with their limited resources by comparison, breaks their weapon? Fuck off.

It's why I prefer the super criticals charts that Fantasy Flight made for Dark Heresy and what Warhammer Fantasy RPG's one did. Feels much more fair. Like sure, the Skaven managed to melt my charging rat catcher into a pile of greasy flesh and burnt bones, but in fairness the same happened earlier, when the Rat Catcher managed to saw the head off of the Rat Ogre.

Exactly. As I said before, it's generally better to reward critical success than to further punish failure. It already sucks that you rolled an automatic failure, you don't have to go further into it unless you're playing a game where the entire premise is everybody getting fucked over.

As for trying to "encourage players to be careful" so they don't consider every encounter a combat encounter... well, we've been playing BFRPG for a few months now and let me tell ya... encounters don't have to be fair, and if you don't want players to be rushing in with swords drawn into every pack of monsters they find, encounters shouldn't be fair. Every encounter having the potential of involving instakill (or insta-incapacitation) poisons, crowd control spells, petrification effects, traps, etc, etc, does a great job of keeping players cautious. It also rewards scouting and preparation so you know which enemy to take out first, or how to avoid an upcoming threat.

Same with making healing less prevalent. The 5e idea of being able to (long or short) rest anywhere and regain large amounts of HP has completely fucked any kind of tension. There's no "crawling out of the dungeon victorious but on 3HP", there's just "well, that's the final room explored, let's take a short rest, recover most of our health, and go outside".

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

Matt Mercer's awful D&D killer RPG is just a glorified storytelling game? He knows most of his fans have never played D&D.

Matt Mercer is the most obvious industry plant and if you watch critical roll you are no longer allowed at my table if you even bring up that you like Matt most so I will immediately kick you out of my group

It's why I prefer the super criticals charts that Fantasy Flight made for Dark Heresy and what Warhammer Fantasy RPG's one did. Feels much more fair. Like sure, the Skaven managed to melt my charging rat catcher into a pile of greasy flesh and burnt bones, but in fairness the same happened earlier, when the Rat Catcher managed to saw the head off of the Rat Ogre.

My players before half of them got kicked out for insulting Gary gygax and the other half left because one of them just wasn't feeling the game and the other one was a judgmental prick who's like I'm gonna insult you and say you're a bad DM OK but you're still leaving.
All of them blew up Lehman Ross tank 'cause they waitress fury did like three times in a row it was fun I generally had fun I think everyone else had fun too but I do not play TTRPGS or DM TTRPGS for leftists anymore I learned that lesson the hard way got burned way too many times by freaks.
I designed the system with the instant death critical hit and eventually had to get it back a bit because I kept having players be blown apart so now the critical death has to trigger three times .
Before it works and statistically that's highly unlikely to happen

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Fuck anyone insulting Gary Gygax. Behead all those who insult Gary Gygax. You did the right thing.

Matt Mercer is the most obvious industry plant and if you watch critical roll you are no longer allowed at my table if you even bring up that you like Matt most so I will immediately kick you out of my group


My players before half of them got kicked out for insulting Gary gygax and the other half left because one of them just wasn't feeling the game and the other one was a judgmental prick who's like I'm gonna insult you and say you're a bad DM OK but you're still leaving.
All of them blew up Lehman Ross tank 'cause they waitress fury did like three times in a row it was fun I generally had fun I think everyone else had fun too but I do not play TTRPGS or DM TTRPGS for leftists anymore I learned that lesson the hard way got burned way too many times by freaks.
I designed the system with the instant death critical hit and eventually had to get it back a bit because I kept having players be blown apart so now the critical death has to trigger three times .
Before it works and statistically that's highly unlikely to happen

I fired up Flux AI and Made you guys a thing (affectionate).