Warhammer 40k

[Humble Architect]

Le Modern Audience Villain: "I'll literally boil an entire planet down to make a soup out of the terror chemicals from a billion tortured civilians' death throes, but I'd NEVER EVER be Sexist, Racist, or Transphobic!"

I hate it, I hate it and I hate that it’s my legion’s character who it was done to. Thankfully Lucius is still based.

I love this guy and the fact he that generates seethe makes me happy.

I'm mainly playing devils advocate, as in pointing out what could be a non-gender-restricted faction ala GSC if GW was in a hurry to try and introduce new DEI stuff that could also be interesting. I did like the New Men stuff in the books though, Igori was a pretty interesting character and had a cool arc. Fabius' abomination that beat Alpha Primus was pretty fuckin gay though.

The “New Men” were the worst parts, defanging the monster. I’ve talked about it but holy fuck, Fabius is such a pussy in his books, whereas in anything else he’s great. HH, War of the Spider, the Lucius novel, the BA stuff.

“I forcibly devolve my cousins into kill-beasts but the Emperor was a sexist faggot.”
-the guy from the legion of frat bros, whose champion is the only space marine I’ve ever seen utter the word “whore”

 

[Edward "Caesar" Sallow]

Mmmmhmmmm schexxy View attachment 6675560

As much as the scizos are sperging about this without looking at old art, such as this, you know damn well they might try to use EC to force female marines.

It's bad enough that monogod CSM armies are barebones as hell, with DG having a full fledge army they're the only exception. TS have a couple of Fantasy models to pad them out to barely an army, but WE got stuck with the majority of the CSM catalogue (and of the 5 exclusive units, only 2 of them are universally liked). The picture below shows the sort of ideas they had in the 90's that would give at least WE some ranged options.


Kill team gives me some hope, as the Legionnaires and the Nemesis Claws were wonderful refreshes of the 8th edition kit, the Traitor Guard giving hope to to Vraksfags, and the Beastmen giving variety, but realistically should of been left in Fantasy. I really hope that they do some KTs for the monogods armies.

Personally, I really don't know what they'll do for the EC army. Noise Marines are a given, and it may be their excuse to update old kits, such as Raptors, Bikes, and Mutilators. Fulgrim is a definite as well, but it's not going to be as good as the Forgeworld model. Going back to purple and gold is nice, and maybe they keep Lucius in the Pink and Black to use for a separate detatchment. Maybe they'll make a Chaos Lord on a bike to double as Doomrider, like they did with the Juggernaut kit.

I'm mainly playing devils advocate, as in pointing out what could be a non-gender-restricted faction ala GSC if GW was in a hurry to try and introduce new DEI stuff that could also be interesting. I did like the New Men stuff in the books though, Igori was a pretty interesting character and had a cool arc. Fabius' abomination that beat Alpha Primus was pretty fuckin gay though.

GW has this really uncanny ability to drop the hardest sets possible in between literal nothingburgers and retarded marketing that get everyone to swear off them. I thought I'd be free until EC was launched.

The reason why they should never, and hopefully will never make female Space Marines, is it will push away a good majority of their fanbase. According to a 2022 survey from Goonhammer shows that at least to those that answered, 45.4% use Space Marines of any flavor as their main army, with ~50-65% of people who answered owning some flavor of Marines. (For clarification I am talking about Imperial and Chaos Space Marines as a whole.)


Games Workshop can't risk pissing off their main consumerbase, which is why 10th has seen such a large ammount of models that are faithful to what the fanbase actually wanted (Terminators, Scouts, even Primaris Sternguard are fairly faithful.) This is accross the board for the most part, as while 10th edition's rules are abyssmal, shitty models as well could of hurt them terribly.

Geedubs is at a point right now where they're doing a pretty decent job keeping their actual consumer base happy, as most people that want female marines are massive grifters who own no actual models, and the ones they do are just stolen pictures.

(Just a small note to end this, making female Space Marines would kill their Sisters of Battle product line. They spent a lot of time and effort making them a full army a few editions ago, and at some point most people would question the point of buying SoB when they can do an all female Black Templar army.)

 

[p1138]

On the one hand, it's about time GW leaned into the sexual aspects of Slaanesh in general. On the other, I question why now.

Because they can have boobs, and get an axe wound between their legs, and be heckin valid.

The shilling for Trench Crusade is getting ...weird. "Omg! The devs for Helldivers tweeted about it! Omg! Napoleon Dynamite made a video about it! Omg! It's Dark Souls Hammer! GW is cooked!". I don't know, something doesn't feel right. I don't know if it's astro turf or something else.

There absolutely is astroturfing going on, they went way over what they needed, and can easily use some money for a marketing campaign. Hell, most people would shill it for a week just because they were promised a set of free models.

Watching one of these videos, one thing surprised me. Supposedly the rules are free and out now, and third parties are free to make models. Which raises the question of why hasn't it curb stomped GW yet?

They run a shop in canada, and explain why they think it'll be a giant waste of time. 3.3 million dollars is nothing compared to GW, Asmodee, CGL, Corvus Belli, etc. That's the equivalent of a fucking line item to these companies. Then consider that 20,000 players globally, assuming they all actually do end up playing is actually next to nothing.

Let's assume 10k of those people are from NA, so half. I've seen estimates of around 800 FLGS across North America. If we assume that's correct(there's a lot in the more populated areas), that's 12.5 players per store. Lets round it up to 13. How many stores only have 13 people playing tabletop wargames in them? You'd be lucky to find 13 people interested in TC at a game store to actually get a regular play group going

Also, and this has been mentioned before with regard to kickstarters, and these guys mention it in the video. There is ZERO incentive for a retailer to give a crap about trench crusade beyond maybe selling paints and basing materials. It's the same reason One Page Rules never took off even though it seems to have popularity purely on youtube in waves(usually when GW has done something to actually piss people off). Out of the 20,000 people who bought into TC, what can a store sell those guys? Nothing. So they're not going to spend much time advertising events for it beyond an initial wave of current customers asking them to(this also happened with OPR). If people show up at the store, and no one is playing it, other than maybe in Europe where they have some private clubs, they aren't going to find opponents.

It really is just another OPR with a more grimdark coat of paint on it, and people have latched onto that as some great hope while failing to note how small the scale of the thing actually is when it comes to a new playerbase,.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

It may be astroturfing, but I feel like this happens a lot with supposed GW/40k killers. One page rules got a fair amount of shilling as well, as did KoW/9th age.
Hell I remember a short period when some fags desperately shelled infinity as a 40k killer. And while I quite enjoy infinity, it’s got very little overlap with 40k either rules or models wise. Only a few of the PanO models really, almost entirely from military orders.

Point being that there are some people who are always trying to see GW fall for some reason or another.

OPR got attention because people realized that 10th edition was trying to copy their army format. Their constant reference to armies only being one full page made it hard not to compare them. Though OnePageRules will never be a 40k killer I think it does prove that if GW wanted to they could make a good game. They still suffer from problems that other games have already figured out, but wont do anything to correct.

People are still rightfully upset by how much the company hates them. They tried the overt approach with Warhammer is for everyone except for straight white men. They still try to force it in where they can. Unsurprising that people would want to see a company that hates them fail.

It comes down to two camps who both want to see GW fail for different reasons. One wants to see them fail, because they know that GW will not willingly improve until they are forced to financially. Maybe when left with the choice to adapt or die they will finally get their head out of their ass. The other just wants revenge. They hate the game. They hate the company. Maybe they're just so sick and tired of seeing Space Marines everywhere they just want it to die already. They think 40k is suffocating the wargaming space, and no other game can even have a hope of gaining traction so long as 40k is around to beat them back down.

The only thing that's going to kill 40k is GW. The moment you try to compare yourself to 40k you've already lost. It doesn't matter how good it is, 40k is a heavily established franchise with decades of history and a giant playerbase. As soon as you make that connection people will always say "I already have a warhammer army, and I know I can get games, there is no reason to switch." You have to market yourself as a game that can be played alongside Warhammer. Don't try to be a replacement but a supplement. You need a game that's familiar enough but does its own thing. I really don't think any game scratches that same sci-fi itch that 40k does.

 

[augment]

Traction you say. For a brief period of time, Warmachine nearly pulled that off.
Then privateer press did the impossible by self-sabotaging in spectacular fashion.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

The shilling for Trench Crusade is getting ...weird. "Omg! The devs for Helldivers tweeted about it! Omg! Napoleon Dynamite made a video about it! Omg! It's Dark Souls Hammer! GW is cooked!". I don't know, something doesn't feel right. I don't know if it's astro turf or something else.

Watching one of these videos, one thing surprised me. Supposedly the rules are free and out now, and third parties are free to make models. Which raises the question of why hasn't it curb stomped GW yet?

Yeah, that sounds like astroturfing to me. I'd put money on the 28mag crowd trying to gin up excitement for the game through whatever channels they have access to because they think it'll own GW and all the 40K chuds they banned from their Discord if they can bootstrap TC into being the next big thing.

The rules are indeed free and available, but until recently they were missing a lot of key stuff like campaign rules and warband variants, and even now they're still incomplete. The available third-party models are all STLs, so if you don't have access to a 3D printer and don't feel like kitbashing, you're SOL until the official release (and maybe even after that, given Only-Games's reputation).

 

[Judge Dredd]

Games Workshop can't risk pissing off their main consumerbase, which is why 10th has seen such a large ammount of models that are faithful to what the fanbase actually wanted (Terminators, Scouts, even Primaris Sternguard are fairly faithful.)

Since when? I got into the hobby late 2e and people have always pissed at GW for one reason or another. Their response has always been to ignore them, or if they get really loud say "fuck off" and then ignore them.

Geedubs is at a point right now where they're doing a pretty decent job keeping their actual consumer base happy, as most people that want female marines are massive grifters who own no actual models, and the ones they do are just stolen pictures.

This didn't stop novels, AAA gaming, movies, and TV burning themselves to the ground. GWs advantage, oddly enough, is the previously mentioned "fuck off we're doing what we want" attitude.

Also, and this has been mentioned before with regard to kickstarters, and these guys mention it in the video. There is ZERO incentive for a retailer to give a crap about trench crusade beyond maybe selling paints and basing materials. It's the same reason One Page Rules never took off even though it seems to have popularity purely on youtube in waves(usually when GW has done something to actually piss people off). Out of the 20,000 people who bought into TC, what can a store sell those guys? Nothing. So they're not going to spend much time advertising events for it beyond an initial wave of current customers asking them to(this also happened with OPR). If people show up at the store, and no one is playing it, other than maybe in Europe where they have some private clubs, they aren't going to find opponents.

An interesting take.

I don't know if I mentioned this here, but this is part of why I support OPR making original factions and making starter kits. Ideally they should start making plastic kits. Theory crafting online and making 3D prints is all well and good, but at some point you have to get into meatspace and play the thing. But shops having to sell things and thus give a reason to promote them makes sense.

They still suffer from problems that other games have already figured out, but wont do anything to correct.

It's not just rules, but product too. Again, sorry if I'm repeating myself. Over the last 15-20 years there's been advances in sprue layout, coloured plastic, and all the benefits that have come out Gunpla or more niche model ranges, while GW seemingly going backwards with models that are more limited. Books are pointless, being rendered obsolete in three months.

I'm reminded of how in TTRPGs OSR have made huge strides in layout, editing, and adventure design, while WotC and Paizo are still doing things like it's 2008.

 

[p1138]

Books are pointless, being rendered obsolete in three months.

At launch. They keep printing points lists in them that are always obsolete day 1 with a faction specific MFM update. The reality is it's because the books are drafted months in advance to get to the printer for the initial run, and by then points and balance changes will have occurred. Unless you really want them for the shitty recycled images and the little lore tidbits, people are only buying them for the code in the back to redeem in the app.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

Trench Crusade definetly is pretty astroturfed, although a somewhat funny thing is that some of the more entrenched culture war redditors that their little autism spergout brought in are huffing and puffing against the Normies who are interested in it as a side game to their 40k interests.

There is a chance more normie consumers butt heads against culture war retards who want to pwn the chuds and it would be funny

OPR is an interesting thing, ill give them credit because they're trying their best to slowly branch out into their own niche slightly more detatched from 40k, its a solid enough ruleset for beginners although you can come up with some bullshit if you look into it due to its simplistic nature. Out of all the games to shill i dont think its too bad of a thing to pick up and play, their models are ok but pretty varied.


GW will definetly will never ever be dented by anything at this point though, like D&D it picked up an obscene amount of mainstream traction in the last couple years, it still has enough mindless consoomers and the ones who wont buy the plastic will wikiwhore the lore and play the vidya games.

 

[Mr Clark]

2k Krieg army when?

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

2k Krieg army when?

So is the Krieg book a full codex or a supplement?

 

[HTTP Error 404]

Outside of the knights, and the 3 that originally sold out (Dark Angels, Ironjawz and Maggotkin), those battleforces STILL aren't moving. Amazing.

 

[ZMOT]

It really is just another OPR with a more grimdark coat of paint on it, and people have latched onto that as some great hope while failing to note how small the scale of the thing actually is when it comes to a new playerbase,.

OPR is more of an outlier how it operates. TC is using the basic kickstarter format with all it's pros/cons.
basically OPR has the same "issue" as linux, as in "how can we profit off of that". since OPR doesn't create models in a limited supply, that's nothing you can sell in a FLGS - otoh they could by a printer and sell the models themselves, but that's more involved than simply ordering boxes from the distributor...

 

[Edward "Caesar" Sallow]

So is the Krieg book a full codex or a supplement?

Krieg are a detatchment, the codex is for all Imperial Guard, they're just putting Kriegers on the cover.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

OPR is more of an outlier how it operates. TC is using the basic kickstarter format with all it's pros/cons.
basically OPR has the same "issue" as linux, as in "how can we profit off of that". since OPR doesn't create models in a limited supply, that's nothing you can sell in a FLGS - otoh they could by a printer and sell the models themselves, but that's more involved than simply ordering boxes from the distributor...

I think one of their more long term goals is setting up a way to distribute models to FLGS so they can sell them, but i think they probably need to export some of their shit to plastic like the Marcher guys are doing. So who knows if its viable for them at all

 

[AncientPhosphur]

Yeah, that sounds like astroturfing to me. I'd put money on the 28mag crowd trying to gin up excitement for the game through whatever channels they have access to because they think it'll own GW and all the 40K chuds they banned from their Discord if they can bootstrap TC into being the next big thing.

I just think it’s funny they would even need advertising after it became this huge thing and then decided to strangling all that interest in it because the wrong people took notice of it.

Also it mostly being a 3D printed models kind of game and nonsensical half baked setting (like there’s still pagans up north with no mention if they converted or not) really just kills the setting for me.

 

[p1138]

otoh they could by a printer and sell the models themselves, but that's more involved than simply ordering boxes from the distributor...

Sure, but most LGS would need to build a room for that, Have a slightly negative air pressure ventilation system in the room, now suddenly deal with OSHA or whatever the local equivalent is for a store where employees are normally just selling MTG cards, PPE gear for anyone that goes in that room, because they're a business proper storage and treatment of things as hazmat, etc.
These guys with their clickbait thumbnail actually do show the crap they need to deal with in Canada at their fairly large game store(they were renting rooms at one point a few years ago for people to bunk in and shit... really weird) and you can bet most states in the US would be requiring similar.

The average LGS is not going to want to deal with all of that, especially because now it means they're running a print farm as a side business and would need to be selling things online like the guys in the video do, to get the volume of customers needed to justify the print farm(MWG also works with some tabletop kickstarters to do physical distribution of printed KS rewards in NA).

edit: And that's also assuming you don't get fucked by the city/county with zoning issues

 

[Judge Dredd]

GW will definetly will never ever be dented by anything at this point though, like D&D it picked up an obscene amount of mainstream traction in the last couple years, it still has enough mindless consoomers and the ones who wont buy the plastic will wikiwhore the lore and play the vidya games.

DnD is currently dying due to mismanagement. Star Wars is in the shitter, and Marvel might be going the same way unless Disney can get a clue. GW, like other IPs, needs to rekindle the fire every now and then. These IPs aren't magic or "too big to fail" like their corporate holders think. It's entirely possible for GW to become an "old man" franchise like Buck Rogers or Captain Scarlet.

Frostgrave, OPR, Trench Crusade, none of this will hurt GW and are likely barely a blip on their radar. If they're smart, they'll get into possition to swoop in if GW fucks up too much. To keep with the DnD analogy, they should aim to be the next Paizo or Kobold Press.

 

[The tired cat]

To keep with the DnD analogy, they should aim to be the next Paizo or Kobold Press.

Only Paizo also kinda dicked themselves hard, so maybe Kobold press? Frankly, I'd say seems people are looking a tad more into other types of TTRPG's that aren't D&D or Pathfinder.

 

[augment]

I agree with Dredd; I see GW's properties going along the same path as Harley Davidson, where it's eventually going to appeal to lifestyle type owners. Unless a miracle happens and some production and design genius figures out a way to boost engagement for younger demographics.
It wasn't too long ago that star wars fans were declaring their cult "unbreakable, too big to fail". Look how well that turned out.