David Steel / LazerPig / Ricewynd / Malquistion - Pathological Liar, Reddit Historian, Femboy Thirster, and Vore Connoisseur

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Because the teeny tiny amount of explosive filler you'd get in most rifle cartridges, even for a full sized rifle cartridge, wouldn't be enough to actually do anything. Plus body armor plates whether they be ceramic or steel are covered in spall liner that prevents HESH from working effectively anyways. Plus the lower density of the projectiles would (in all likelihood) adversely affect accuracy. Plus you'd get a lot more mileage out of just using a hard, dense material such as tungsten or cobalt as a penetrator. Plus the easiest way to get around body armor is to simply teach your guys to shoot for a belt buckle hold anyways.
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This. A 7.62 HESH round, or in new army caliber, 6.8/7mm, would do nothing to armor but leave a scorch mark. Probably scare the fuck out of whoever got hit, but not be lethal.
 
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WelperHelper99 said:
This. A 7.62 HESH round, or in new army caliber, 6.8/7mm, would do nothing to armor but leave a scorch mark. Probably scare the fuck out of whoever got hit, but not be lethal.
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Now you could do something like put the old Russian or German exploding bullets back in production as spotting rounds for machine gunners, and they would work great for anti-infantry use, but they would make no difference in armor penetration and would also probably work worse.
B-Patrone2_zps237d1363-3889958991.jpg

Actually, InRange did a video or two on these way back in the day.
 
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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Now you could do something like put the old Russian or German exploding bullets back in production as spotting rounds for machine gunners, and they would work great for anti-infantry use, but they would make no difference in armor penetration and would also probably work worse.
View attachment 6678047

Actually, InRange did a video or two on these way back in the day.
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Well exploding bullets sure. Just not a hesh round. And yeah, you'd have to ask if you'd really want to trade armor pen for a tiny bit of HE. Really armor piercing incendiary is the answer to this problem.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
Well exploding bullets sure. Just not a hesh round. And yeah, you'd have to ask if you'd really want to trade armor pen for a tiny bit of HE. Really armor piercing incendiary is the answer to this problem.
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The answer to this problem is belt buckle hold. Most modern body armor systems do not cover much of anything below the navel unless you're using one of those hanger plates that no one ever uses because they suck. The groin and lower abdomen have one of the densest collections of major blood carrying vessels in the entire body plus multiple important internal organs and most of the digestive tract. The pelvis is also there and even with the wonders of modern medical science a shattered pelvis is an absolutely nasty wound that you will likely never fully recover from.
 
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donksmanSupreme42 said:
feel free to correct me sir, as that is far from my expertise
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Very, very many reasons. The most important that kills the project straight away is in what you quoted. Cost. I cannot imagine the costs required to replace our M855 stock with fuzed HESH, much less develop it. But for fun and because I was an antiarmor/demo guy, I can expand. So what HESH was intended to do was negate sloped armor at the cost of straight on penetrative power and post penetration effects (In tank on tank which most analogous to a gun fight). But it's design is focused on tank armor, steel that surrounds an empty space full of ammo, fuel, machinery and some Meat that makes it all run. Many different considerations when your post pen target is just meat pressed against the armor. You can't rely on spall to fly through the air and hit something vital when it detonates directly in front of a rib cage behind SAPI/Steel armor and what spall is produced instantly his resistance. You also have to consider body armor isn't designed to do the same thing as tank armor. A tank can shrug off a non pen with maybe ringing the crew's ears and keep on going. A vest can absorb 7.62x39 but it's still going to break the guys sternum, so personal armor is designed to spread the force of the impact out, both over time and distance to keep the wearer not only alive but able to move and fight if nessicary after a hit. These considerations in construction further negate any spall a HESH 5.56er might manage to get into the vital bits.

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
The answer to this problem is belt buckle hold. Most modern body armor systems do not cover much of anything below the navel unless you're using one of those hanger plates that no one ever uses because they suck. The groin and lower abdomen have one of the densest collections of major blood carrying vessels in the entire body plus multiple important internal organs and most of the digestive tract. The pelvis is also there and even with the wonders of modern medical science a shattered pelvis is an absolutely nasty wound that you will likely never fully recover from.
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Gonna double post because this is something that is important and I was taught years ago. So someone's coming at you and you have to decide how to take them down. You do what's called a Failure to Stop Drill, which is variation of the Mozambique (Two to the chest, one to the head). The first step is to fire two shots on one sight picture into his chest, upper center mass. If he's not wearing armor, because of an effect known as hydrostatic shock, congrats, his heart is now pulled pork and he's dead. Unfortantly for you, even with his arota severed he doesn't know he's dead and has several seconds to act still and up to 30 seconds before he actually dies. And that's a lot of time for a man with a gun. And here I should note your goal isn't to kill the guy, it's to stop him from killing you or your buddies. His death is just the natural outcome of this. So you could put the round in his head, but the whole head doesn't work. You want the T-box, an aera drawn between the eyes and nose. This gives you the best chance of hitting the brain stem, and shutting the lights off instantly. But that's a really hard target to hit when shit gets real. So you instead fire that one shot into the pelvic girdle. Aside from the addional blood loss (Which won't really matter), it drops the guy and interrupts his attempts to kill you. So now he's doubly dead, but his body still doesn't know it yet. But he's on the ground and not running. So now you can be sure of your aim when you shoot him in the fucking head. And then you do it again to be sure. And if he did have a vest that stopped the first two shots? Well, they staggered him enough to get that pelvic shot and you can again be sure of shooting him in the fucking head while he writhes.
 
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Amerikaner Teddybär said:
"Muh diverse food source"
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pretty sure it's mostly to feed livestock
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Two things:

1) The M1 Carbine loads from a detachable magazine, no thumb involved
2) The only time the Garand bites your thumb is if you haven't maintained it properly and you load it wrong. If the rifle is maintained properly the bolt hold open will hold the bolt back after the enbloc is inserted, and then will release the bolt forward after you cycle the charging handle. Even if the rifle isn't maintained properly it still won't bite you if you hold your hand on it properly. The proper way to hold your hand on the rifle is to put your right thumb on top of the enbloc while keeping your palm against the right side of the receiver so that the meat of your palm is against the charging handle, this way if the bolt does jump forward on its own it still won't bite you because your palm is in the way.

Because the teeny tiny amount of explosive filler you'd get in most rifle cartridges, even for a full sized rifle cartridge, wouldn't be enough to actually do anything. Plus body armor plates whether they be ceramic or steel are covered in spall liner that prevents HESH from working effectively anyways. Plus the lower density of the projectiles would (in all likelihood) adversely affect accuracy. Plus you'd get a lot more mileage out of just using a hard, dense material such as tungsten or cobalt as a penetrator. Plus the easiest way to get around body armor is to simply teach your guys to shoot for a belt buckle hold anyways.
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thanks for correcting me, sir, u learn smth new every day
 
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Sooty Soot said:
can we have a rimmy thread?
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Has he done anything new or exceptional? I've not followed him too closely lately but just being a howler monkey (albeit one willing to give new RTSs some exposure) with terminal NAFO-brain wouldn't warrant it by itself. There's of course the old ARMA drama and allegations around him but that would require collating a bunch of stuff that's years old and might have just been hearsay to begin with.
 
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WelperHelper99 said:
Ive seen that. Drones cant drop 2000 bombs. Or nukes. A F-35A can at a breezy Mach 1.6
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An author I like is in those comments and wrote something excellent.

"I know war isn't really your thing, but here's a truth about it, anyway. War is the place where nothing fails like success, where defeat is contained as a seed within victory, where opposed wills make a mockery of normal, linear logic, and where effectiveness always invites a reponse.

Drones are vulnerable in several ways, by physically attacking the operators, by breaking the link between operator and drone, and by directly attacking the drones, themselves. Yes, they had a brief moment in the sun with an army that wasn't prepared for them. And even that, especially the grenades down tank hatches gambits of Ukrainian propaganda, were mostly staged or one-offs. Before that they were a useful adjunct. In the future they will be a useful adjunct. And, until they can think as well as a man, that is all they will be."
 
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Falcos_Commisar said:
make a mockery of normal, linear logic,
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Very true. It sounds very stupid written out simply:
"The drones will be stopped"
"How"
"Because the other guy wants to"
"How, technically?"
"I don't know yet"
"Will he exploit a weakness?"
"Almost certainty."
"Which weakness?"
"One we can't see. We need to plan for this."

But yet, this is how you have to think.
 
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Ooooooh boy, given how hard David glazes the Challenger 2, he's probably going to drink himself even further into a coma when he sees this than usual. That, or pull a page from the Russian playbook and deny that it ever happened + maybe it did happen but not as catastrophically as when Russian tanks do it + this Chally 2 singlehandedly killed more Russian equipment than the Russians ever had in inventory before it did happen.
Just another example of British post-Thatcher equipment being the worst NATO has. Still think I'd rather be in a Chally 2 than anything the Russians have, though, but damned if that isn't only by the slimmest of margins.
 
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