General Wrestling Discussion

I am pretty sure that Taker was not the one who came up with the idea. But he certainly could've refused to do it. He had tons of sway and could've easily done that.
He could have. Why would he? All he knows is this mid-carder is doing a comedy routine, and the Undertaker character at this exact moment was supposed to be more aggressive and angry. The mid-carder eats some smacks with a chair and Undertaker continues to look like the monstrous heel that the audience wants to see.
 
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He could have. Why would he? All he knows is this mid-carder is doing a comedy routine, and the Undertaker character at this exact moment was supposed to be more aggressive and angry. The mid-carder eats some smacks with a chair and Undertaker continues to look like the monstrous heel that the audience wants to see.
People knew that Kanyon was gay, even back then. Why else would they have a random Boy George spot like that? It had nothing to do with the storyline. Yes, Heyman and Taker were feuding but why not have Kanyon attack Taker with a chair instead?
 
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People knew that Kanyon was gay, even back then. Why else would they have a random Boy George spot like that? It had nothing to do with the storyline. Yes, Heyman and Taker were feuding but why not have Kanyon attack Taker with a chair instead?
This video on it pretty good. Hear it from Kanyon directly and you see him singing Boy George. Made me laugh when Artie Lange just tells him to “sing like a faggot.”
So is Cena at the end just covering for the company saying Kanyon wasn’t up to snuff? I really don’t remember him in WCW.
 
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It didn't help that WWE was pushing the narrative that guys like Jericho and the Radicalz were "misused" which helped give some legitimacy to those gripes.
The whole "Radicalz coming to the WWE was the deathblow to WCW cause they were the backbone of WCW!" is one of the most overstated/overrated narratives that's been pushed in wrestling the last 20+ years.
 
The whole "Radicalz coming to the WWE was the deathblow to WCW cause they were the backbone of WCW!" is one of the most overstated/overrated narratives that's been pushed in wrestling the last 20+ years.
It was big, but not because they were the backbone of WCW. It was big because of how they debuted and because Benoit was champion and just left. If I remember right, Saturn and Malenko were midcard at best, Eddie was not being pushed and Benoit was finally being pushed but before that was a midcarder. Eddie was a cruiserweight, along with Malenko, and for the most part they were midcard by default. Saturn was pushed about as hard as he was in WWE/F. Benoit was midcard until they made him champ, but it was too late then. Good for WWF for making Benoit and Eddie stand out like they did, though (obviously not counting Benoit's murders).

So is Cena at the end just covering for the company saying Kanyon wasn’t up to snuff? I really don’t remember him in WCW.
Kanyon was way ahead of his time. He was a phenom in the ring and very innovative. Had a good look (he was like 6'4). His promos were pretty solid, too. "Who betta than Kanyon?" "Everybody!" and then him faking being mad was pretty hilarious. The invasion MVP thing was cool, too.

Cena was full of shit there. To be honest, the WWE did have a legit reason to release him but it wasn't because he wasn't good or because he was gay, but because he did get injured a lot towards the end. If I remember right, at the end of his tenure he had a severe injury, came back, then got injured again right away, came back, then got injured yet again right away. He had basically a 1.5-2 year run where he was just injured, and anyone outside of Austin/etc that won't fly for. He would've made an amazing trainer at OVW or whatever developmental they were using at the time.
 
People knew that Kanyon was gay, even back then. Why else would they have a random Boy George spot like that? It had nothing to do with the storyline. Yes, Heyman and Taker were feuding but why not have Kanyon attack Taker with a chair instead?
Probably because the Undertaker's character during this run was a building heel that was destined to get knocked down a peg. Kanyon attacked Undertaker with his back turned during this spot, so Taker retaliating was meant to be "justified", then (in keeping with his behavior during this specific year) he took things too far by getting brutal with a chair. If Kanyon initially used a chair, it wouldn't have allowed Undertaker to escalate and do overly-aggressive heel stuff. Also keep in mind this is the same year Taker lost to Vince, the biker Taker was canonically killed and he returned later with the zombie gimmick.

There are better examples but this is how Undertaker behaved through most of 2003:
 
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Probably because the Undertaker's character during this run was a building heel that was destined to get knocked down a peg. Kanyon attacked Undertaker with his back turned during this spot, so Taker retaliating was meant to be "justified", then (in keeping with his behavior during this specific year) he took things too far by getting brutal with a chair. If Kanyon initially used a chair, it wouldn't have allowed Undertaker to escalate and do overly-aggressive heel stuff. Also keep in mind this is the same year Taker lost to Vince, the biker Taker was canonically killed and he returned later with the zombie gimmick.

There are better examples but this is how Undertaker behaved through most of 2003:
But why would Kanyon be singing a Boy George song with a heavy lisp? It made no sense with regards to the storyline.

Kanyon could've attacked with a chair and Taker overpowered him instead.
 
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But why would Kanyon be singing a Boy George song with a heavy lisp? It made no sense with regards to the storyline.

Kanyon could've attacked with a chair and Taker overpowered him instead.
Because if you believe the stories, Vince does most things based on what he learns of people, what he's heard recently, and then flies by the seat of his pants. Heyman needs wrestlers to put between himself and Undertaker, who despite being a heel is still over with the crowd. This would logically start with Heyman trying this tactic mid-carders (like Kanyon), who get wrecked by Taker, and then it builds from there. Kanyon decided to mention to the company that he was planning on coming out. Vince is Vince, so his brain puts it together that Kanyon is a faggot now, Kanyon needs to pull his weight to justify his paycheck, and other angles need mid-carder bodies to move forward. If you study "Vince logic" without strictly trying to justify it morally (because a lot of his decisions aren't moral or in good taste), it makes sense.
 
Because if you believe the stories, Vince does most things based on what he learns of people, what he's heard recently, and then flies by the seat of his pants. Heyman needs wrestlers to put between himself and Undertaker, who despite being a heel is still over with the crowd. This would logically start with Heyman trying this tactic mid-carders (like Kanyon), who get wrecked by Taker, and then it builds from there. Kanyon decided to mention to the company that he was planning on coming out. Vince is Vince, so his brain puts it together that Kanyon is a faggot now, Kanyon needs to pull his weight to justify his paycheck, and other angles need mid-carder bodies to move forward. If you study "Vince logic" without strictly trying to justify it morally (because a lot of his decisions aren't moral or in good taste), it makes sense.
Right, I am saying that having him come out as Boy George made zero sense from a wrestling angle perspective. Storyline wise, it made no sense.

Kanyon getting wrecked by taker made sense. Him doing it as Boy George, when Kanyon's character had nothing to do with anything like that before or after, made no sense.
 
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But why would Kanyon be singing a Boy George song with a heavy lisp? It made no sense with regards to the storyline.
Oh we know the answer to that. The people who watch Wrasslin are majority homophobic and it makes watching oily roided men playfight feel less gay if homos are played for a joke. That’s why modern WWE has this Ambiguously Gay Duo.
And for the record “Pretty Deadly” are both in relationships with women.
 
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Right, I am saying that having him come out as Boy George made zero sense from a wrestling angle perspective. Storyline wise, it made no sense.

Kanyon getting wrecked by taker made sense. Him doing it as Boy George, when Kanyon's character had nothing to do with anything like that before or after, made no sense.
I think we agree that Vince was morally in the wrong to do this, where we disagree(?) is that Mark had any real involvement beyond being told he was going to go hit Kanyon with a chair, the same way he hit everyone else. This "makes sense" if you take prior stories of Vince McMahon and imagine him going "Hmm... Kanyon's a faggot, eh? Well we will have to keep his gimmick true to life and dress him as Boy George. Homosexuals only behave like flamboyant fruits to my knowledge. Let's see if the audience likes it. I don't think they will, but it's important a wrestler's gimmick be tied to their true self, and Kanyon's true self is being a faggot."
 
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I think we agree that Vince was morally in the wrong to do this, where we disagree(?) is that Mark had any real involvement beyond being told he was going to go hit Kanyon with a chair, the same way he hit everyone else. This "makes sense" if you take prior stories of Vince McMahon and imagine him going "Hmm... Kanyon's a faggot, eh? Well we will have to keep his gimmick true to life and dress him as Boy George. Homosexuals only behave like flamboyant fruits to my knowledge. Let's see if the audience likes it. I don't think they will, but it's important a wrestler's gimmick be tied to their true self, and Kanyon's true self is being a faggot."
Taker likely knew Kanyon was gay. Every other wrestler did. Taker could've still refused to do it since he had the say to do it. I don't think he particularly hated Kanyon for being gay, but he was happy to bury him like he did.

Oh we know the answer to that. The people who watch Wrasslin are majority homophobic and it makes watching oily roided men playfight feel less gay if homos are played for a joke. That’s why modern WWE has this Ambiguously Gay Duo.
And for the record “Pretty Deadly” are both in relationships with women.
I am referring to it from a storyline perspective. For the viewers at home, why would Kanyon be acting as Boy George? It had nothing to do with the angle. If he had just come out of the box with a chair to attack Taker, sure, that makes sense.
 
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Taker likely knew Kanyon was gay. Every other wrestler did. Taker could've still refused to do it since he had the say to do it. I don't think he particularly hated Kanyon for being gay, but he was happy to bury him like he did.


I am referring to it from a storyline perspective. For the viewers at home, why would Kanyon be acting as Boy George? It had nothing to do with the angle. If he had just come out of the box with a chair to attack Taker, sure, that makes sense.
Look at the audience boo at Kanyon and rejoice seeing Taker beat him up. It’s a celebration of literal “Smear The Queer.”

I remember watching WWF as a kid and Shawn Michaels came out in a flamboyant shiny outfit. My uncle called him a faggot and everyone laughed. For the longest time I thought Shawn was actually gay. Especially with that faggy “boy toy” theme.
 
Look at the audience boo at Kanyon and rejoice seeing Taker beat him up. It’s a celebration of literal “Smear The Queer.”

I remember watching WWF as a kid and Shawn Michaels came out in a flamboyant shiny outfit. My uncle called him a faggot and everyone laughed. For the longest time I thought Shawn was actually gay. Especially with that faggy “boy toy” theme.
That still doesn't make sense storyline wise, though.

Kanyon, up to that point, had been a serious wrestler. Why would he, this one time only, be appearing as boy george to the Taker? Him attacking Taker makes sense, but why the Boy George? If instead of Kanyon, they had someone like Perry Saturn doing it, it'd make just as little sense to the viewers at home
 
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Look at the audience boo at Kanyon and rejoice seeing Taker beat him up. It’s a celebration of literal “Smear The Queer.”

I remember watching WWF as a kid and Shawn Michaels came out in a flamboyant shiny outfit. My uncle called him a faggot and everyone laughed. For the longest time I thought Shawn was actually gay. Especially with that faggy “boy toy” theme.
You know, I am starting to think that it wasn't a girly magazine. Maybe it was, in fact, a gay magazine.
Bret the shitman fart.jpg
 
You know, I am starting to think that it wasn't a girly magazine. Maybe it was, in fact, a gay magazine.
View attachment 6706093
Seriously no one made jokes about Bret dressing in Pink when Shawn was dressing up like he was part of the Village People.
IMG_1246.jpeg
Hated Shawn when he wiped his nose on Canadian flag, and I’m not even Canadian!
 
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