Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

It's a peace offer/deal Putin will not accept as he does not want Ukraine being a part of NATO. While also showing Zelensky is willing to do peace negotiations even with a less than ideal negotiating position on his and Ukraine's end.

It would be a good way to call out Putin and expose his real ambitions to make it obvious even for the most retarded among us.
If Ukraine is willing to give up territory for peace in exchange for meaningful security guarantees (NATO membership), Putin refusing it would just confirm that he has his sights set on the rest of it, so there's no reason to trust his word on anything regarding the matter.

It doesn't help that Putin's stated goals and reasons for the invasion are all over the fucking place. To curb NATO's expansion, to save ethnic Russians from imaginary genocide, to restore Russia's rightful borders etc etc. Because all these things have different implications when it comes to negotiating a peace deal.
For anyone who isn't a kremlin-pilled zigger, it's easy to infer his actual reasons based on his demands.

 

[Vince McMahon]

to save ethnic Russians from imaginary genocide

It's real now, it's just perpetrated by the Russian government. The most casualties are in the areas that are ostensible pro-Russia.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz on X: "Deutschland wird der stärkste Unterstützer der Ukraine in Europa bleiben. Beim Treffen mit @ZelenskyyUa werde ich weitere Rüstungsgüter im Wert von 650 Millionen Euro ankündigen, die noch im Dezember geliefert werden sollen." / X

Germany will remain Ukraine’s strongest supporter in Europe.

At the meeting with
@ZelenskyyUa
I will announce further military equipment worth 650 million euros, which are to be delivered in December.

 

[-Jack-]

Personally I don’t think NATO membership is even solid proof. We are already aware of two nations who were vocal about letting Ukraine into NATO, Hungry and Slovakia and I suspect Serbia too (not confirmed).

I think NATO membership is a good start, but I think there needs to be troops on the ground in the unoccupied parts of Ukraine helping train, stabilise and rearm Ukraine and obviously help with rebuilding infrastructure and “westernising” it-They should also have air protection also.

Guarantees of NATO membership is pointless when you have two very pro-Russian/influenced countries unwilling to ever ratify Ukraines membership.

It’s very clear they are will never get their land back whether we like it or not that’s just how it is. But I will be MATI if Trump just forced Ukraine into a ceasefire on current lines without solid-proof security guarantees because that just gives Russia time to rebuild and regroup and attack again.

I also personally don’t believe a North Korean-South Korean Demilitarised zone would work either. The boarder is insanely huge and it would involve European troops being competent and I can imagine months, if not years of them deciding what nations forces to even send. That’s even if Russia would agree to having NATO forces right on their boarder (doubtful).

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Personally I don’t think NATO membership is even solid proof. We are already aware of two nations who were vocal about letting Ukraine into NATO, Hungry and Slovakia and I suspect Serbia too (not confirmed).

I think NATO membership is a good start, but I think there needs to be troops on the ground in the unoccupied parts of Ukraine helping train, stabilise and rearm Ukraine and obviously help with rebuilding infrastructure and “westernising” it-They should also have air protection also.

Guarantees of NATO membership is pointless when you have two very pro-Russian/influenced countries unwilling to ever ratify Ukraines membership.

It’s very clear they are will never get their land back whether we like it or not that’s just how it is. But I will be MATI if Trump just forced Ukraine into a ceasefire on current lines without solid-proof security guarantees because that just gives Russia time to rebuild and regroup and attack again.

I also personally don’t believe a North Korean-South Korean Demilitarised zone would work either. The boarder is insanely huge and it would involve European troops being competent and I can imagine months, if not years of them deciding what nations forces to even send. That’s even if Russia would agree to having NATO forces right on their boarder (doubtful).

Point being, NATO membership is the bare minimum required to avoid repeating this sometime in the future. There's no point to settle for anything less.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

We are already aware of two nations who were vocal about letting Ukraine into NATO, Hungry and Slovakia and I suspect Serbia too (not confirmed).

Serbia isn't in NATO. It has its own problems to deal with.

 

[N Space]

Keith Kellogg was appointed as the Special Envoy to Ukraine, he published this report (local archive annexed) on the topic and so far, I think it's the closest thing to a policy we have now.

 

[Least Concern]

Keith Kellogg was appointed as the Special Envoy to Ukraine, he published this report (local archive annexed) on the topic and so far, I think it's the closest thing to a policy we have now.

I read a summary of it on a Telegram channel. If accurate then it's "freeze the line, no NATO for UA" garbage that Zelensky and broader Europe should reject on sight. It pledges American security guarantees but obviously those are worth very little, and of course any agreements from the Russian side are worth even less. It would let Putin save face and rebuild his forces while being rewarded for his aggression so far with territory and the ability to set international policy for foreign and supposedly independent countries. If this is really going to be the Trump admin's policy, then it's really time for Europe to step up to the plate like never before, because us Americunts are about to shit the bed on this.

 

[Pedophobe]

At this point it's up to Putin to decide if he really wants Ukrainian land or Ukraine out of NATO. He can't have both.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Keith Kellogg was appointed as the Special Envoy to Ukraine, he published this report (local archive annexed) on the topic and so far, I think it's the closest thing to a policy we have now.

It's from April 2024, so it reads very "election season".

tl;dr:
- Giving Ukraine weapons is wrong and bad, and Biden should have given them far more early on, but not actually like a lot, but also "flood Ukraine" with them, but only under Biden, not now or later.
- Russia has legitimate security interests and the US should accommodate them. The war is ultimately the fault of the US for not letting Russia take over the Ukrainian government.
- Biden respects Ukrainian wishes and coordinates with Europeans, who are russophobic, which is wrong and causes issues in the excellent relationship the US could have with Russia.
- Biden is mean to Putin, which is bad. He also associated Putin with Hamas, which is a bad thing to do too (even though Putin hosted Hamas leaders after October 7th).
- The US should stop supplying weapons to Ukraine, because a stalemate is undesirable.

Then out of nowhere:

By enabling Ukraine to negotiate from a position of strength while also communicating to Russia the consequences if it fails to abide by future peace talk conditions, the United States could implement a negotiated end-state with terms aligned with U.S. and Ukrainian interests. Part of this negotiated end-state should include provisions in which we establish a long-term security architecture for Ukraine’s defense that focuses on bilateral security defense. Including this in a Russia-Ukraine peace deal offers a path toward long-term peace in the region and a means of preventing future hostilities between the two nations.

Yeah, a bunch of MAGA retardation and incoherent nonsense mixed with falsehoods, ending in a couple paragraphs that basically contradict the entire thrust of the article lol. I assume the final ones are what he actually thinks, the rest is "pick me."

Edit: I skimmed most of it, because it was mostly about Joe Biden and parroting the usual talking points.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

None of this applies to Israel btw.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Uparmored MT-LB​

Spoiler: different angles

link
"Codename: Destiny"

---

Burnt, dead and dying - all mixed up in the group of Russian paratroopers, who are now occupying "more advantageous positions" under the destroyed armored personnel carrier. An absolutely hellish picture: while one of the survivors is trying to hit the Ukrainian drone with a burst of machine gun fire, his neighbor turns into a bright firework after being dropped by the same drone.

Spoiler

link (original post, is old footage)
Their last thoughts: "I hope NATO sends more equipment for us to demilitarize." Probably.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Trumps High IQ Peace will Reign a Million Years Plan is to freeze the conflict for a decade or so.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Aside from Reagan, it have been the American policy to kick that particular nuclear armed Soviet/Russia can down the road so it will someone's else problem.

 

[Oxyjen]

Ah, the “Putin gets what he requested” plan, how surprising.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Bike-chain shrapnel:

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Production of Ukrainian Ratel-S drones:

 

[mindlessobserver]

It's a peace offer/deal Putin will not accept as he does not want Ukraine being a part of NATO. While also showing Zelensky is willing to do peace negotiations even with a less than ideal negotiating position on his and Ukraine's end.

Its also important to note that what Ukraine may be willing to barter with is essentially the parts of the country Russia has thoroughly depopulated and bombed to rubble. Thus in the ensuing peace Russia would have to pay to rebuild the area. Or not as the case may be.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Its also important to note that what Ukraine may be willing to barter with is essentially the parts of the country Russia has thoroughly depopulated and bombed to rubble. Thus in the ensuing peace Russia would have to pay to rebuild the area. Or not as the case may be.

Being very optimistic that Russia would keep any of its word, promises or guarantees.

 

[Abowaffen]

Ah, the “Putin gets what he requested” plan, how surprising.

Don't worry, I've been repeatedly assured by the MAGA people in this very thread that Putin will be afraid of America under Trump and that Trump will flood Ukraine with weapons like never before and scare Putin into giving up.