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Well he asked why they were there, I would just chalk it up to art direction.
Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off
- Thread starter CowReserach Inc.
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Ralph the Movie Maker, a very odd outsider cowesque guy (his Channel Awesome videos were really good) comes out with SW good stuff.
TheMysteriousAHole
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Because I am so old and pedantic, I need to correct myself: "That's also why they had Palpatine look far older in AOTC in comparison to TPM and ROTS."
Take a look at the make-up on Ian in AOTC. They went wild with making him look far older than what he actually was.
That's just 90's-00's era Lucas for you.
All of this is just reminding of the infamous change in AOTC's story due to a fucking typo. I have no idea if you're aware of what I'm talking about, some of you likely do, but just in case: I'm speaking of the Sido-Dyas/Sifo-Dyas situation. The original scenario, before reshoots, was this: Sidious was absolutely behind the creation of the Grand Army within the context of the film. There was no confusion about this. It wasn't Dooku using the name of an old Jedi friend. It was Sidious. Now, whether or not Dooku was still behind the hiring of Jango Fett to serve as the donor in this incarnation of the story, no idea. Someone clearly did and I don't think it'd be hard-pressed to come to the conclusion that Sidious was also behind that as well. Ignore the fucking EU's contributions to this. This was what they originally shot. Obi-Wan never heard of Master 'Sido-Dyas' and nor had Yoda and Mace Windu. It was Palpatine doing cosplay to set-up the Jedi.
Then on some random page, George noticed a single typo. He typed Sifo instead of Sido. And this single fucking typo set off Lucas' autism that during reshoots he changed it from Palpatine doing his best weekend Jedi Cosplay to a brand-new fucking character that wasn't required.
This fucking typo left an unresolved story plot point that Lucas originally promised to resolve in ROTS. But he didn't. Instead, he left it to the EU to once again patchwork his stories. James Luceno tried his hand at address it in his Labyrinth of Evil novel. Sifo-Dyas' dead body showed up in that one short comic story featuring Grievous in Star Wars Visionaries. Then fucking furfuck Filoni decided that he had to do his own take on the hanging plot point.
A typo, ladies and gentlemen. A single fucking typo created all of this unnecessary bullshit that could have been avoided if a saner, less autistic indivudual would have just seen the typo, shrug, and gone about his day.
This is the level of autism we're dealing with when it comes to George Lucas.
This is why that previous story I shared here at least sounds plausible to me.
That's less of a theory and more reality. Elite Squadron is all that was left over from the aborted Battlefront 3. I knew that years before all of those leaked incomplete cinematics from BF3 was leaked out.
The more time passes and more detached I get from Star Was as a whole, I'm able to take a step back and be more critical of the franchise in a way I previous wasn't. This also allows me to be more appreciative of what we had and be less judgemental of things I previous was, too.
An example of the latter was the Bantam era of the Expanded Universe. Time passes and I have become fonder of that time period. We had great games, a fantastic RPG, good comics, and a collection of novels that was hit-and-miss.
Now the former? I've really become more critical of the efforts of people like Jason Fry, Daniel Wallace, and Abel Pena. I have nothing against continuity and the respect of it. I wish more creatives would be appreciative of it. Continuity is a beautiful thing. It matters. Then there's those who, quite frankly, get so caught up in making little references and trying to play connect-the-dot and tying up so-called 'loose ends' and etc. that... honestly... it comes across as them having their heads crammed up their asses and huffing their own farts. In their attempts to be clever with continuity, at times they make the universe smaller and that's never a good thing.
We don't need to have an explanation for every little fucking thing in the universe nor is it their job to reference a tiny little fucking book that was published 15 years ago and now you got to tie it into something else because the fucking asylum has been overrun by the goddamn lunatics.
That rant is also sorta funny because I really did love it when West End Games explained things. But at that time, they didn't go batshit crazy like the above three did.
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GlupShitto
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If George Lucas has been born just a little bit later, we could've had a great lolcow
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I disagree. Again, it makes perfect sense how they explained it. Nobody would've voted for Palpatine if he looked like THAT, and yes, he did look way too deformed in Episode 6.
Not to mention that one of the main influences for Star Wars was Lord of the Rings, as if the Ewoks being Vietcong Hobbits were any indication. Palpatine being a more presentable face when he was running for office made sense as to why he got voted, then later on, his face was disfigured and made to look uglier to reflect the evil within him, kind of like what happened to Sauron, when he was a lot more beautiful and elegant when he was deceiving the world, but then that beauty was taken from him, making him so ugly that he couldn't show his face to the world from then on in.
Not to mention that it fits with the poetic side of Star Wars that the Dark Side makes you fuck-ugly. You sacrifice many things by going down that path, beauty just being one of them. Saying that "it's not necessary, ergo it should not exist" is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If that's the case, then half the shit that makes Star Wars its own thing wouldn't be necessary. Killing off Ben wouldn't be necessary since his ghost tags along anyways, as if the fucker never died. Vader being Luke's father isn't necessary, just have him get killed by Luke before he moves on to the Emperor.
And your source for this is what, again? From the start, the Kaminoans were adamant that a Jedi ordered the creation of the Clone Army. It helped sell the credibility of the Clone Army, instead of it being ordered by the Chancellor, which would just make it sus that a politician who's not supposed to have a lot of power went behind the back of the traditional protectors of the galaxy. The Jedi would never trust them, especially since they never trusted politicians in the first place. But if one of said protectors ordered the army? Someone from the Jedi Council, no less, Now it explains why the Jedi bought into them, and why never saw Order 66 coming.
Not to mention that I'd rather have Lucas being an autist rather than JJ and Rian not giving a shit about details. A healthy amount of autism is necessary to keep track of shit like this, and yes, the EU pretty much has been patching up the plot holes even before the Prequels. Look at the Battle of Endor for the proof. Even with the Death Star gone, the Imperial Fleet had the numbers to crush the Rebels. The EU had to make up some shite about how the Imperials there got too used to the Battle Meditation from the Emperor supporting them that when it turned off, they started acting like rookies.
So the EU patching up plot holes isn't anything new. They were doing it during the OT era, it's only natural they'd do it in the PT era. And it's far more preferable than the broad strokes the ST went with.
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TheMysteriousAHole
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The Sido-Dyas/Sifo-Dyas, thing? Ladies and gentlemen allow me to present you the Attack of the Clones shooting script. Also, apologies if this gets annoying:
That's the first mention of Sido-Dyas in the script and also the typo. Now I'm not going to post the entire script here so let's just skip to later on:
Hey, because I always try to be honest and correct myself when I'm wrong, I will say this: it was pretty clear in the shooting script that Darth Tyranus was behind the hiring of Fett. Again, getting old and memory isn't perfect. I remembered in the final cut that Dooku was behind the hiring but couldn't remember the original shooting script.
Obi-Want meets Jango:
Last but not least:
Now, with that out of the way... I'm going to be honest here, I wasn't sure how I was going to respond to you, sir, because frankly you got yourself a bit of a reputation in this thread. I might not post a lot but I do lurk a shitload. I've seen the arguments in this thread that you've been a part of. There are times when you're annoying and times when you're not. With that said, you do have a bad tendency to white knight for Lucas. Pointlessly, if I may add. I'm not going to deny there's people out there that tear the man down but goddamn he's a grown man and it's OK to criticize him. This is something to be criticized. Do I need to point out K.I.S.S.?
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
He has a simple explanation in place. Sidious pretended to be a Jedi to order the army. That's not complicated. The Kaminoans were adamant? Who fucking cares. You're saying they can't be fooled by someone? Let's talk reality for a moment. How many people get tricked by cunts pretending to be police? And those cunts don't have the resources like someone like Sidious would. You really think Sidious couldn't pull off pretending to be a Jedi with his level of access and power? The resources at his disposal? C'mon, man. Don't be silly.
There are other things I could say about AOTC's story regarding the clone army. The logic behind it. Not to mention shoehorning in pointless fan service by having a bounty hunter with Mandalorian armor who just happened to be the father of Boba. But that's another story for another time.
As for the rest of the message, I have nothing to add. I don't fucking care about J.J. and Rian. Two wrongs don't make a right, man.
Also, all of this is funny because I don't even hate the Prequels. Hell, I'm not even sure how I feel about them nowadays. I've gone back on forth on these films since the midnight screening of TPM back in 1999. Parts I like and parts I don't and there are times that I wish George had stuck with certain parts of the first drafts of these movies because it would've been better.
P.S. Now unless you were referring to the other thing that I was originally discussing then that's up to you what to believe or not. As I said prior, take everything with a grain of salt. Believe, don't believe. I'm good either way. Hell, I am talking about something that happen nearly two decades ago, too, regarding a place and resource that's no longer around so you get no problem from me if you disbelieve.
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Creamy Sheev could easily pretend to be a Jedi. He pretended to be a harmless politician in EP1.
Remember that Sith and Jedi are distinguished by 2 things: fashion sense and Force Aura.
Kaminoans wouldn't sense the second, and the first he could just use makeup, they are aliens. I doubt Kamino had advanced humanology lessons 101: Is this old human just old or a Sith? They don't even see in the same spectrum so maybe even the Sith eyes wouldn't be noticed.
It would have been a funny scene to show him cosplay.
Remember that Sith and Jedi are distinguished by 2 things: fashion sense and Force Aura.
Kaminoans wouldn't sense the second, and the first he could just use makeup, they are aliens. I doubt Kamino had advanced humanology lessons 101: Is this old human just old or a Sith? They don't even see in the same spectrum so maybe even the Sith eyes wouldn't be noticed.
It would have been a funny scene to show him cosplay.
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Is it really cosplay when he already has a laser sword and robe?
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Realistically, if it was Sidious who ordered the army, then the Kaminoans would start saying something along the lines of "hey, the Jedi who ordered the army looks a lot like the Chancellor" and the Jedi would not trust the Clone Army, since the Chancellor ordered the army behind their back while pretending to be a Jedi, which would signal to the Jedi that A) they cannot trust the Clone Army, and B) they cannot trust the Chancellor. Ergo, they stop using the clones and start raising armies of their own, drafting local soldiers from Republic worlds and the like. Which makes Order 66 and the rise of the Empire impossible, since from day 1, the Jedi would never trust the clones, and they would be even more suspicious of the Chancellor, who not only went behind their back to order the Clone Army, but he deceived people into thinking he was a Jedi, too. They would build up their own military and power structure, hampering any plans by the Chancellor to turn the Republic into an Empire.
Meanwhile, if it was a Jedi who ordered the Clone Army, a Jedi who actually sat on the Council, then it's easier for the Jedi to swallow the idea that the Clone Army is trustworthy; it was ordered by one of their own, a Council master no less, so even though he went behind their backs to order the Clone Army, he was one of them, he was a Jedi, so the rest of the Jedi go along with it and it's easier to fool them into trusting the Clone Army, which makes Order 66 possible, which makes the Rise of the Empire possible.
If anything, AGAIN, this was a good retcon on Lucas' part, paying attention to detail. It certainly is preferable to Disney and the Sequel Trilogy going for the "keep it simple, stupid" approach and not giving a good explanation as to why things happen in the Sequels. How did the Empire return in TFA even though the New Republic ruled the galaxy? Keep it simple, stupid, just don't give a shit, enjoy the lasers and the explosions, and eat your goddamn popcorn. How are the Resistance in TLJ suddenly become so short-handed even though they had the support of the New Republic? Keep it simple, stupid, just accept the fact that they're the scrappy underdog and the hidden Empire now has even bigger Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers than they did when they controlled the galaxy. How did Palpatine return? Keep it simple, stupid, just accept that he's an evil wizard with magic powers, and that revival is one of them.
Literally, the "keep it simple, stupid" approach is why the Sequel Trilogy is a forgettable wreck, especially TFA, which is just a carbon copy of ANH with not a single original bone in its body. They kept it simple, kept the worldbuilding and the politics to a minimum, and at most RLM and the normies liked it, but RLM aren't Star Wars fans, they're Trek fans who have always hated Star Wars, and the normies aren't fans either; they're called normies because they're only there for simple entertainment. Which explains why now, even the Disney Star Wars faithful no longer care about the Sequels and instead care more about things like Andor or the Filoniverse, since simple films don't do anything that remarkable and are forgettable slop. They left the "simple" movies to rot in the desert while they moved on.
Hell, if you applied the "keep it simple, stupid" idea to things like the Original Trilogy Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, nobody would remember them. They would just be standard fairy tales of the good guy killing the shit out of the bad guy and moving on. No complex lore about the One Ring, no "I am your father", just simple-ass good vs. evil that has been seen and played out over a thousand times. Those two stories would just be forgettable fairy tales rather than iconic franchises people keep ripping off or emulating.
Meanwhile, for all its flaws, people keep meme-ing the shit out of AOTC and the other Prequel films, people keep coming back to them, people consumed media that revolved around it in droves, even as they castigated them. Meaning that these films were still iconic enough and they left enough of an impact that people remember them even after they came out over a decade ago. Can you say the same thing about the Sequels?
Again, I'd rather have an autistic idiot like Lucas running Star Wars than the "keep it simple, stupid" people at Disney who didn't give a shit about details. The former made Star Wars iconic and memorable, the latter made Star Wars into forgettable slop, to the point where even now, barely anyone gives a shit about the Skeleton Crew show coming out. Back then, when we had an autist running Star Wars who said "nuts to that" to the "keep it simple, stupid" approach, even the fucking tie-in novels, comics, and video games were selling like hotcakes. Never mind the actual films which still made the fans happy. The attention to detail that the Star Wars universe had under Lucas made it a lived-in world that had its own culture, its own feel, which made it more unforgettable, as games, comics, and novels set in that universe had that unique appeal that you could rarely find anywhere else.
If you keep it simple, nobody gives a fuck after the adrenaline dies down. Who here remembers Arnold Schwarzenegger's Commando? Good film, but at the end of the day, it's just a simple "muscle man guns down 1000 brown people with a machine gun" movie, and you'd struggle to find someone on the street or the net who even remembers the fucking thing without them having seen the Nostalgia Critic review of the film which came out over a decade ago. Even the GOOD works that go with the "keep it simple, stupid" approach have been lost and forgotten to time.
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Shouldn't the Kaminoans be on it somehow?
In the films, Cody called Palpatine My Lord like a proper Sith.
Did Sheev brainwash them after they left Kamino?
Unless he did, the Kaminoans would have to have been on to it to some degree, especially after Disney made the control chips with kill jedi command.
In the films, Cody called Palpatine My Lord like a proper Sith.
Did Sheev brainwash them after they left Kamino?
Unless he did, the Kaminoans would have to have been on to it to some degree, especially after Disney made the control chips with kill jedi command.
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The control chips were a retcon by TCW, which stepped on a lot of lore from the Lucas era to simplify things for dummies. That, and the Kaminoans were not in on it, because if they were, they'd be acting suspicious in front of Kenobi, and unlike Sidious who can shield his mind since he's a powerful Sith Lord, the Kaminoans are not Jedi or Sith, and Kenobi would be easily able to read their thoughts and figure out that something is wrong. He was easily able to sus out Jango Fett, imagine him reading a Kaminoan's thoughts.
They literally established in the OT that a powerful Jedi or Sith can reach into the mind of someone else. Like how Vader discovered he had a daughter by reading Luke's thoughts. If Vader could read the thoughts of another Jedi, then reading the thoughts of muggles like the Kaminoans would be child's play for someone like Kenobi. Kenobi would discover the whole Order 66 thing three years early and warn the Jedi not to trust or use the Clone Army.
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No, they were paid for a large contract. They aren't the type to ask who's buying from them. My lord is also a generic address too.
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The Chancellor even called the Jedi "your graces" in AOTC. "Your Grace" is how you address the high nobility or the king.
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I was okay with the Palpy's lightning getting turned back on him and melting his face in TROS if we're being honest. He was the consummate opportunist and even managed to use that to his advantage. He was able to cloak his new face in the dark robes, stand in front of the Senate as a martyr, and get what he wanted all along: the death of the Jedi and the destruction of the Republic. He even mentions in the novelization that he would miss the face he had, but this new one would be a great tool for him to use.
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My point exactly. That ugly mug was something Palpatine wore with pride, and he blamed his disfigurement on the Jedi, casting them as the villains while putting up a face of confidence and resolve. Palpatine never missed an opportunity to score good PR.
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The leaders of the CIS never noticed that the guy who was calling the shots to them via hologram looked a lot like the Senator from Naboo and then-Chancellor of the Republic wearing a hood 3 sizes too big
So why would the Kaminoans notice?
Or is it too mean to George to point out that he was never really big on consistent realism on the small points of his ebic space opera because no one is because it's not worth it and supremely autistic to obsess over like you do
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Your/his Grace is the honourific for a Duke, a King would be referred to as "your/his Majesty".
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I'm pretty sure those fuckers, unlike the Kaminoans, were in on the joke. They lost damn near every battle, and they lost both Dooku and Grievous, yet before Vader comes in to kill them all, Sidious pats them on the back for a job well done. And they didn't think that was suspicious. They knew the war was a sham. Hence why they were surprised that Vader killed them, when they thought they played their acts in the fake war perfectly.
"Lord Sidious promised us peace!"
The man wouldn't be in a position to promise peace if he wasn't leading the other side.
I remember an EU plotline where Sidious wanted to recover Nute Gunray's chair because the holograms of Sidious in it would implicate the Chancellor as Sidious. So yes, Palpatine knows that even as Sidious in his Sith guise, he'd be spotted as the Chancellor by the Jedi.
The Kaminoans, as I said, were not in on the joke. If they were, Kenobi would've figured it out.
And a Duke is way above "my lord" when it comes to rank. Also, some kings in fiction like in ASOIAF are referred to as "your grace".
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GlupShitto
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Jesus fucking Christ skeleton Crew was awful. It's painfully obvious they made it for kids and I was cringing out of my skull the entire time. They named the fucking robot Smee because hur dur we gotta reference something Disney made. And of course the main character is some fucking DEI hire with androgynous features (probably a tranny). If I ever have to watch another show with a nondescript brown nigger I will kill myself. But we have to push the anti-white agenda. I mean, notice that the entire cast is DEI BULLSHIT outside of the elephant who's supposed to represent us. That's what Hollywood thinks of white people. They see us as pathetic nerdy cuck elephants. He doesn't even look like Max Rebo. And the whole At Atalon is some lost treasure planet twist is fucking stupid. How the fuck do you lose a planet? The entire galaxy is charted by God knows how many people. You can't just lose a fucking planet. If it turns out this is some extragalactic bullshit like Exegol or the Yuuzong Vong I swear to fucking God.
Honestly I don't know why I bothered. The originals aren't even good. The only two good Star Wars movies are ROTS and Rogue One (the latter of which was ruined for me by Andor and it's dykery).
Honestly I don't know why I bothered. The originals aren't even good. The only two good Star Wars movies are ROTS and Rogue One (the latter of which was ruined for me by Andor and it's dykery).
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Easy, people stop traveling to it. Hyperspace is mapped by a ship traveling from one point to another. If people stop traveling to a planet, hyperspace maps don’t get updated, and people don’t trust the outdated maps because who knows how far away that planet might be as it moves across the galaxy.