Honestly the large positive feedback from this might fuel a new form of copycat violence in the US.
From a harm reduction standpoint if killing one person replaces shooting up a school or crowd of bystanders then that’s a net positive for society.
UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot outside Hilton hotel in Midtown in targeted attack: cops - Just Part and Parcel of visiting a Big City
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From a harm reduction standpoint if killing one person replaces shooting up a school or crowd of bystanders then that’s a net positive for society.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2022
So who is going to break the news to Bezos that he might need to take one for the team for the sake of children all across America?
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2022
I guess ISD is still working on theirs, but the NYT article below links to this one from the Networked Contagion Research Institute (NCRI). Oh no! Ideas that were once bandied about on 4chan and 8chan have leaked to the wider population.
Praise for United Healthcare CEO Assassination Goes Viral
Networked Contagion Research Institute (archive.org)
By NCRI Staff
2024-12-05 20:21:09GMT
https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-UHC-Assassination-Brief-12_4.pdf (archive.org)
Key Points
Following the targeted killing of UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson on the morning of December 3rd, NCRI identified a surge of highly engaged posts across social media glorifying the incident, some even calling for additional acts of violence, generating impressions in the tens of millions.
● Out of the top ten most engaged posts on Twitter/X that mention Brian Thompson or UnitedHealthcare, six either expressed explicit or implicit support for the killing or denigrated the victim.
● A top ten most engaged post referencing the incident on Twitter/X, stated “Are we starting now then?,” likely in reference to a beginning of a larger movement, garnered over 1.8 million impressions, with highly engaged comments referencing a “Class War.”
● Other highly engaged posts across multiple social media platforms including Bluesky, Twitter/X, TikTok, and Telegram include statements suggesting other corporate figures “should fear for their own lives,” and stills from the video of the incident are being captioned with statements such as “God Speed You!”
○ NCRI has also identified posts endorsing additional targeted killings towards public figures like President Trump and Elon Musk
● Telegram posts from extremist groups are circulating the names of other healthcare executives alongside explicit calls to violence.
There is cause for concern that these patterns reflect the emergence of a permission structure for targeted violence, akin to those historically observed on platforms such as 4chan and 8chan. These platforms have become notorious for going into overdrive after mass shootings, creating feedback loops where the glorification of violence encourages more acts of violence. While this phenomenon was once largely confined to niche online subcultures, we are now witnessing similar dynamics emerging on mainstream platforms, amplifying the risk of further escalation
<OP note: See the PDF file for the various screenshots of social media included>
Key Points
Following the targeted killing of UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson on the morning of December 3rd, NCRI identified a surge of highly engaged posts across social media glorifying the incident, some even calling for additional acts of violence, generating impressions in the tens of millions.
● Out of the top ten most engaged posts on Twitter/X that mention Brian Thompson or UnitedHealthcare, six either expressed explicit or implicit support for the killing or denigrated the victim.
● A top ten most engaged post referencing the incident on Twitter/X, stated “Are we starting now then?,” likely in reference to a beginning of a larger movement, garnered over 1.8 million impressions, with highly engaged comments referencing a “Class War.”
● Other highly engaged posts across multiple social media platforms including Bluesky, Twitter/X, TikTok, and Telegram include statements suggesting other corporate figures “should fear for their own lives,” and stills from the video of the incident are being captioned with statements such as “God Speed You!”
○ NCRI has also identified posts endorsing additional targeted killings towards public figures like President Trump and Elon Musk
● Telegram posts from extremist groups are circulating the names of other healthcare executives alongside explicit calls to violence.
There is cause for concern that these patterns reflect the emergence of a permission structure for targeted violence, akin to those historically observed on platforms such as 4chan and 8chan. These platforms have become notorious for going into overdrive after mass shootings, creating feedback loops where the glorification of violence encourages more acts of violence. While this phenomenon was once largely confined to niche online subcultures, we are now witnessing similar dynamics emerging on mainstream platforms, amplifying the risk of further escalation
<OP note: See the PDF file for the various screenshots of social media included>
The New York Times (archive.ph)
By Hurubie Meko
2024-12-07 21:32:55GMT
A surveillance camera image released by law enforcement of the suspected shooter.Credit...New York City Police Department
A grainy image of his face drew comparisons to Hollywood heartthrobs. A jacket similar to the one he’s wearing on wanted posters is reportedly flying off the shelves. And the words written on the bullets he used to kill a man in cold blood on a sidewalk on Wednesday have become, for some people, a rallying cry.
Four days after a gunman assassinated a top health insurance executive in Midtown Manhattan and vanished, the unidentified suspect has, in some quarters, been venerated as something approaching a folk hero.
The authorities have pleaded for help from the public to find the person who killed the UnitedHealthcare executive, Brian Thompson, who was a husband and father of two children. But in a macabre turn, some people seem to be more interested in rooting for the gunman and thwarting the police’s efforts.
The Upper West Side hostel where officials believe the unknown man stayed during his time in the city has reportedly received a deluge of bad reviews online, with some people calling the workers there “narcs.” The business has been cooperating with the police.
And while high-profile crimes have in recent years mobilized internet sleuths hellbent on finding answers, civilian efforts to find Mr. Thompson’s killer have appeared muted. Instead, the executive’s killing has released a tide of online frustration toward the health insurance industry, with some people even voicing their support for the gunman.
It is unclear what motivated the killing or whether it was tied to Mr. Thompson’s work in the industry. The police have yet to identify the shooter, and he remained at large as of Saturday.
The killing, which occurred at around 6:45 a.m. on Wednesday, just outside the New York Hilton Midtown hotel, incited an immediate citywide manhunt by law enforcement. Police officials have said that their assumption is that the gunman left the city by bus about an hour after he shot Mr. Thompson because they have video of him entering a bus depot but not leaving it.
Police officers searched Central Park on Friday for clues to the suspect’s whereabouts. Credit...Jeenah Moon for The New York Times
The shooter left a trail of evidence for the police to track: a distinctive backpack abandoned in Central Park; a water bottle with DNA found at the crime scene; and a collage of surveillance video of him throughout the city, including a photo of him with his mask down at the hostel.
But the clue that has ignited the most chatter online, and that appears to have garnered the gunman a following, are the words officials say they found scribbled in permanent marker on bullet casings discovered at the scene: “depose,” “deny” and “delay.” Although the words could have multiple meanings, they may be a reference to the tactics used by insurers of all kinds to avoid paying claims.
In some circles, those words alone have been enough for people to openly root for the shooter and hope that he escapes the grasp of law enforcement.
Alex Goldenberg, a senior adviser at the Network Contagion Research Institute, which tracks online threats, said the internet rhetoric had left experts “pretty disturbed” by the “glorification of the murder of Brian Thompson and the “lionization of the shooter.”
In a report this week, the institute found that of the top 10 most-engaged posts on X about the shooting on Wednesday, six “either expressed explicit or implicit support for the killing or denigrated the victim.” The dynamic is similar to the discourse that often emerges after a mass shooting on websites like 4chan and 8chan, where perpetrators of extreme violence become memes themselves, Mr. Goldenberg said, “but what’s disturbing about this is it’s mainstream.”
“It’s being framed as some opening blow in a broader class war, which is very concerning as it heightens the threat environment for similar actors to engage in similar acts of violence,” Mr. Goldenberg said.
On Saturday afternoon, about half a dozen men gathered in the December cold at Washington Square Park in Lower Manhattan to participate in a look-alike contest for the gunman. One had the words “deny, defend, depose” painted on his jacket.
The contest drew a crowd of around 30 people who had heard about the event through fliers that were advertised on social media platforms, including X and Bluesky.
The winner of a look-alike contest for the gunman, held Lower Manhattan on Saturday, said that he celebrated the shooter’s actions. He declined to give his name.Credit...Amir Hamja for The New York Times
The winner, a 39-year-old who does data entry for a labor union, declined to give his name but said that he celebrated the actions of the gunman and that he believed it was important to make people understand how people were hurting under the health care system.
For executives of large corporations, particularly those in the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, Mr. Thompson’s killing heightened their safety concerns. Hours after the shooting, dozens of private security officers joined a call to discuss additional protective measures for executives.
But for others, the message that the internet has assigned to the shooter’s motives has resonated and spread.
More than 100 miles away from Manhattan, in a Philadelphia alleyway next to a graffitied dumpster, the words “deny” “defend” and “depose” were spray-painted on the side of a building.
The look-a-like contest mentioned in the article is posted here if you missed it.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
Hahaha the cowardice. Wants to go “it’s anuddah shoah” but no individual journoscum wanted to be the name on it so it’s just “the editorial board”.
Healthcare companies are taking info from executive teams off of their websites. Too bad that’s literally publicly reported information.
The manhunt should be of faces of the (((executive teams))) of the rest of the company and the other healthcare insurance companies.
The right and left are happily united in stringing these kike nigger faggots up in the street. This is what healing looks like. You have to debride the fucking wound.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2024
I'm popping a NYTimes article here not because it's interesting (it's not, really), but because the replies to the article from NY Times subscribers are very interesting. First, the boring bit.
New York Times | archive.ph
By Dionne Searcey and Madison Malone Kircher
December 5 2024
Messages found on bullet casings at the scene of the Wednesday shooting — “delay” and “deny” — are two words familiar to many Americans who have interacted with insurance companies.
Karsten Moran for The New York Times
The fatal shooting on Wednesday of a top UnitedHealthcare executive, Brian Thompson, on a Manhattan sidewalk has unleashed a torrent of morbid glee from patients and others who say they have had negative experiences with health insurance companies at some of the hardest times of their lives.
It is unclear what motivated the incident or whether it was tied to Mr. Thompson’s work in the insurance industry. The police have yet to identify the shooter who is still on the loose.
But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children.
“Thoughts and deductibles to the family,” read one comment underneath a video of the shooting posted online by CNN. “Unfortunately my condolences are out-of-network.”
On TikTok, one user wrote, “I’m an ER nurse and the things I’ve seen dying patients get denied for by insurance makes me physically sick. I just can’t feel sympathy for him because of all of those patients and their families.”
The dark commentary after the death of Mr. Thompson, a 50-year-old insurance executive from Maple Grove, Minn., highlighted the anger and frustration over the state of health care in America, where those with private insurance often find themselves in Kafka-esque tangles while seeking reimbursement for medical treatment and are often denied.
Messages that law enforcement officials say were found on bullet casings at the scene of the shooting in front of a Midtown hotel — “delay” and “deny” — are two words familiar to many Americans who have interacted with insurance companies for almost anything other than routine doctor visits.
Mr. Thompson was chief executive of his company’s insurance division, which reported $281 billion in revenue last year, providing coverage to millions of Americans through the health plans it sold to individuals, employers and people under government programs like Medicare. The division employs roughly 140,000 people.
Mr. Thompson received a $10.2 million compensation package last year, a combination of $1 million in base pay and cash and stock grants. He was shot to death as he was walking toward the annual investor day for UnitedHealth Group, UnitedHealthcare’s parent company.
Stephan Meier, the chair of the management division at Columbia Business School, said the attack could send shock waves through the broader health insurance industry.
About seven chief executives of publicly traded companies die each year, he said, but almost always from health complications or accidents. A targeted attack could have much larger implications.
“The insurance industry is not the most loved, to put it mildly,” Mr. Meier said. “If you’re a C-suite executive of another insurance company, I would be thinking, What’s this mean for me? Am I next?”
A longtime employee of UnitedHealthcare said that workers at the company had been aware for years that members were unhappy. Mr. Thompson was one of the few executives who wanted to do something about it, said the employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the company does not allow workers to speak publicly without permission.
In speeches to employees, Mr. Thompson spoke about the need to change the state of health care coverage in the country and the culture of the company, topics other executives avoided, the employee said.
Already, there is heightened concern among some public-facing health care companies, said Eric Sean Clay, the president of the International Association for Healthcare Security and Safety. The trade group includes members that offer security to some of the largest health care companies in North America.
“The C.E.O.s are quite often the most visible face of an organization,” he said. “Sometimes people hate on that individual, and wish to do them harm.”
But few health care companies provide security for their executives, he said, in part to avoid bad optics, or because it may seem unnecessary.
After the Wednesday shooting, social media exploded with anger toward the insurance industry and Mr. Thompson.
“I pay $1,300 a month for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible. ($23,000 yearly) When I finally reached that deductible, they denied my claims. He was making a million dollars a month,” read one comment on TikTok.
Another commenter wrote, “This needs to be the new norm. EAT THE RICH.”
The author Joyce Carol Oates weighed in on social media, after an initial version of this story was published, saying that the outpouring of negativity “is better described as cries from the heart of a deeply wounded & betrayed country; hundreds of thousands of Americans shamelessly exploited by health-care insurers reacting to a single act of violence against just one of their multimillionaire executives.”
The shooting has also prompted patients and family members to weigh in publicly, sharing wrenching horror stories of insurance claim reimbursement stagnation and denials — painful recountings of insurance company interactions that have become all too familiar in a nation facing a health care crisis.
One woman expressed frustration with trying to get a special bed for her disabled son covered by UnitedHealthcare. Another user described struggling with bills and coverage after giving birth.
“It is so stressful,” the user said in a video. “I was sick over this.”
NYTimes doesn't turn on comments for most of their articles, but they do for some and it's always interesting to see what the most popular comments are. Keep in mind that the only people who can participate in the comments are active paying subscribers, and you're looking at a very specific demographic — and often this demographic doesn't toe the party line in the way that you'd expect given the publication.
In the comments section, subscribers can either leave a comment or mark a comment to "recommend" it. Basically, upvoting. The most popular comments on typical news stories get a few hundred recommends. More interesting things, and the recommends might climb above 1000. For super controversial topics, especially in the last year or so with trans-related news stories, the most recommended comments had 2-3 thousand recommends on them.
And then this article here? The top comment has over 10,000 recommends on it, and while the commenters' tones are rather more measured than the way people on other sites are talking about the event, they're still very much in line with how everyone — except the media and those in power! — are feeling about it.
Here are some of the top comments, and then another 30+ below the spoiler.
When all legal avenues to hold the powerful to account have been removed, and all attempts at reform have been defanged, this becomes the inevitability. An industry that provides no value, exponentially raises the cost of an product none of us choose to obtain and has so thoroughly purchased our politicians that public healthcare is beyond the Overton window should not be surprised at this result.
Oh man. Retired physician here, internist working in the hospital for years. Sorry for the family and this guy sounds mildly insightful into the issues with health insurance but I saw this coming . In the hospital we HATE united healthcare- they were the worst as far as denying post acute care stays, lots of phone calls to justify care. so much a time suck and harmed patients. Their profits are made with blood and tears.
"About seven chief executives of publicly traded companies die each year, he said, but almost always from health complications or accidents."
I bet none of them die for being denied coverage.
Goodness, the response to this crime is incredible. I can only assume NYPD uses just as many resources to solve other murders in theCity as the murder of this healthcare CEO right? Because othenvise that would imply some people's lives are worth more than others.
You might find some of the comments below surprising, considering (again) they were left by paid NYTimes subscribers. I've coloured red a few of them that I think that are particularly surprising or noteworthy
For profit insurance companies are for profit ..not for keeping Americans healthy, Denying coverage is how they make billions in profits and there are hundreds of thousands of people who were denied coverage after having paid thousands of dollars for coverage. Health insurance companies are the biggest scams carried out on Americans to date. It would make more sense to pay our doctors directly instead of nonmedical no ops ! We need Medicare for all ... period ! United Healthcare needs to be investigated for the hundreds of thousands of their policy holder's denied claims, more than time !
Brian Thompson did not deserve to die.
But our heartless, excruciating for-profit corporate healthcare racket deserves to die yesterday.
No other country has to put up with such an obscenely inefficient, overpriced, inhumane healthcare system.
But most other countries have democracies, unlike the USA, where dollarocracy is the law of the land.
This is what happens when ordinary Americans are economically terrorized by our 17% of GDP healthcare industry.
I can’t imagine the ammout of pain the CEO's family is going through. Having your husband or father murdered and millions of people say: he deserved it. At the same time how many thousands were bankrupted or died due to the egregious actions of his company? How much money is enough for corporate America?
When the Republicans kill Medicare, Medicaid, and the ACA, expect the gated communities these CEOs inhabit to become armed fortresses.
When actions you take threaten other people's lives, expect yours to be at risk as well.
United Healthcare led the industry in claim denials. Denials for post-acute care doubled between 2020 and 2022 (as earlier reported by tile NYT). Revenues soared even as covid was winding down. Seems he didn't care • that• much about improving their practices.
"Morbid glee" is accurate. Still a tragedy for his family - just as arbitrary claim denials are tragic and devastating for families all over the country.
This was utterly foreseeable and the killer will likely be remembered as an extreme anti-hero. Zero chance the industry executives will take away the right lesson though.
This case pretty much tells you everything you need to know about this country and how there are limitless resources and 'all hands on deck' to solve SOME crimes but not others.
United Healthcare used Al to determine that my ongoing therapy for our recent and devastating infertility diagnosis was medically unnecessary. Their call center representative contacted my therapist without consulting me and asked invasive questions about my treatment, progress, and when she thought that I might not need therapy anymore. This call center representative, who is not a mental health professional, suggested to my therapist that I move forward with group counseling instead of seeing her individually, as I have done this entire time. All of this because I am seeing my therapist once a week for an ongoing medical issue. No, I'm not surprised that people have rage boiling beneath the surface towards their insurers.
"Negative experiences' is downplaying the state of things to an extensive degree. UHC denies a third of its patients' requests, twice the average of major carriers, and about 4.Sx the 'best' major carrier {Kaiser). This is a product of a company-wide aim to deny claims. If Thompson wanted to “change things", that does not really explain why in 2023 UHC began using an Al approve/deny tool with a reported 90% error rate.
Nobody else in the developed world deals with a system like this. We need to have single-payer, universal healthcare. There is so much money we pay for medical care for that goes to compensate the bureaucrats, executives, and stockholders of health insurance companies instead going to doctors, nurses, and manufacturers of medical equipment
We don't need these middlemen, and when they stand in the way of necessary care for hundreds of thousands of Americans, rage is the inevitable result
Thompson was shot while on his way to an investors' conference - the insurance industry's highest priority.
So an employee claims Mr. Thompson wanted to “do something" about people's unhappiness with his company.
If only he had been in a position to do something....
Wait.
What's clear from the news coverage was that his life mattered a great deal to those in power, but the lives lost because insurance denied appropriate treatment, those lives are worth less. I wish half as much care, effort and attention were paid to the others who have died because of lack of access to healthcare. Those people were people with families, children, and loved ones as well. Their lives were not less valuable, just less valued.
The victim's compensation package is outrageous when there are families struggling to pay their medical bills. The shooter must have done his research. Can't wait to read his backstory.
The healthcare and health insurance industry has made this offer to Americans for the last few decades:
"your money OR your life (i.e. health)...you can have one, but not both"
Looks like the shoe is on the other foot now United Healthcare and fellow corporate healthcare extortionists.
How many people has Brian Thompson's company killed and maimed over the years, and why weren't any of its executives jailed for murder? This is what happens when the law helps the rich avoid consequences.
How nice that he wanted to "do something" about his company's "coverage." So why didn't he?
The extreme disparity in how this is being covered by the media - sensationalist horror, “chilling,” nonstop coverage - and the reaction I have seen uniformly across social media and in comments section - schadenfreude and understanding - is very revealing about the media, healthcare, and American culture as a whole.
Killing Mr. Thompson was wrong.
However, as a physician, I can confidently say that there are countless individuals (providers, medical support staff, and patients) who have regularly fantasized about killing someone from an insurance company.
Profits over people is just evil.
For continued subjugation by the elites, the masses either have to be contained with an iron boot on their necks (North Korea) or adequately pacified to maintain the rule of law (USA). Yesterday's events are evidence that the system of pacification is failing.
It's interesting how many resources are being devoted to solving this crime. So many murders go unsolved, but murder a member of the elite and no stone will remain unturned
Maybe the Times should instead focus on doing stories about patients who have died due to denied coverage by insurance companies. You're giving way too much attention to this guy while ignoring the sick and dead people who were at the mercy of these hoodlum companies and those running them.
You get what you pay for...or in this case, what you don't pay for.
People are sick of these corrupt companies ruining lives. Yet, you see no coverage of this in the NYT, only endless political commentary and culture wars. Let's see some front page stories on how companies like UHC letting people die so shareholders and the C suite can make a buck!
I'm sure the CEO's salary is comprised of bonuses related to denied claims. How many people have died needlessly because of these denials?
I am willing to bet a paycheck the assassin had himself or a family member denied coverage. As everyone's been saying of the President lately, “I can understand his action as a father.” To understand is not to condone, but if my bet is right, I understand the impulse.
It's truly ironic that other healthcare executives are sitting around wondering “am I next?”, when millions of Americans wake up every day to the same thought – “am I next to be denied coverage?”. Welcome to America.
My daughter was born with bi-lateral clubbed feet When she was 14 months old, she had corrective surgery. The insurance company paid for one foot, but not the other, claiming it does not cover two surgical procedures performed simultaneously. The surgeon and hospital argued with them for months, finally waiving everything that had anything to do with the second foot So, kudos and thanks to UW Hospital and Clinics; what I have to say to the insurance company cannot be printed.
I do not, in any way, condone this act or violence of any kind.
But...
There have been 346 other homicides this year in NYC, and I'm pretty sure none of them got a multi-day "manhunt.” The vast majority likely did not get even 1% of the resources expended towards solving this one (of a non-resident non-taxpayer, to boot). Nor did those killings get anything close this amount of attention from the media, even where the killings involved issues that are far more relevant and dangerous to the public at large, such as people with long histories of criminal violence and mental health issues being repeatedly released from custody until they murdered someone. 99.999% of us are more concerned about being shot or stabbed by someone fitting that profile than of an assassination. Being a CEO shouldn't make one's murder any more special or worthy of being solved than that of the rest of us and does not deserve an exceptional allocation of police resources.
The "dark commentary" is in direct proportion to the number of people this CEO has harmed and even killed with his focus on the bottom line. He may have killed them through bureaucracy and legalese as opposed to a bullet, but they are dead all the same.
They had a denial rate of 32%, the highest in the industry. The sort of hate directed toward them should give them pause.
Really? You're calling it “hate” and morbid glee" rather than valid, righteous fury? Knowing how evil this corporation is, even amongst its evil peers? Have you looked up the rate of denials? Have you extrapolated how many Americans this behemoth has killed?
There are two ways to make change: conversation and violence. It appears the talking time is over.
There is a reckoning coming. People have suffered for too long. Believe them when they tell you.
There is no place for murder in civil society. My condolences to those that loved him.
At the same time, it doesn't surprise me one bit that the public has responded with deep anger over the actions of this CEO and his company, and others like it. They, too, have blood on their hands. People have died because of their greed. Others have lost their homes and livelihoods, drowning in medical debt. Virtually everyone knows someone who has needlessly suffered and had needed medical care denied, contrary to the recommendations of their doctors. These companies are unethical, and often, as successful litigation has proven, liars and thieves (in the sense of using deliberate deception and unscrupulous methods to not provide a paid-for and life-sustaining service as promised).
As for United Healthcare, they are presently being sued for using an algorithm to automatically deny medical care for the elderly, with the 90% error rate in denials! See Estate of Gene B. Lokken et al. v. UnitedHealth Group, Inc. et al. in Minnesota District Court. You will find the case on Georgetown University's health care litigation tracker online. The site also links to other such lawsuits.
I feel like they've narrowed it down to about 160 million suspects.
@Socrates Respectfully, says you. I've felt nothing but schadenfreude over this.
This is how revolutions begin - the proletariat take action against aristocrats & the political class.
This may be a solitary event and not lead to any change, in healthcare nor government. But the message cannot be ignored and swept under the rug of respectable politics.
People have had enough of being sick to death - literally- while other people gain wealth from their demise.
Brian Thompson deserved it. As do others.
When you've even lost the support (and empathy) of the sort of people who pay for New York Times subscriptions, you're in a pretty dire position, indeed.
Populist politicians: take note! This is a vote winner that crosses race/gender/socioeconomic class boundaries.
Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows C.E.O.’s Killing
The shooting death of a UnitedHealthcare executive in Manhattan has unleashed Americans’ frustrations with an industry that often denies coverage and reimbursement for medical claims.New York Times | archive.ph
By Dionne Searcey and Madison Malone Kircher
December 5 2024
Messages found on bullet casings at the scene of the Wednesday shooting — “delay” and “deny” — are two words familiar to many Americans who have interacted with insurance companies.
Karsten Moran for The New York Times
The fatal shooting on Wednesday of a top UnitedHealthcare executive, Brian Thompson, on a Manhattan sidewalk has unleashed a torrent of morbid glee from patients and others who say they have had negative experiences with health insurance companies at some of the hardest times of their lives.
It is unclear what motivated the incident or whether it was tied to Mr. Thompson’s work in the insurance industry. The police have yet to identify the shooter who is still on the loose.
But that did not stop social media commenters from leaping to conclusions and from showing a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who was a husband and father of two children.
“Thoughts and deductibles to the family,” read one comment underneath a video of the shooting posted online by CNN. “Unfortunately my condolences are out-of-network.”
On TikTok, one user wrote, “I’m an ER nurse and the things I’ve seen dying patients get denied for by insurance makes me physically sick. I just can’t feel sympathy for him because of all of those patients and their families.”
The dark commentary after the death of Mr. Thompson, a 50-year-old insurance executive from Maple Grove, Minn., highlighted the anger and frustration over the state of health care in America, where those with private insurance often find themselves in Kafka-esque tangles while seeking reimbursement for medical treatment and are often denied.
Messages that law enforcement officials say were found on bullet casings at the scene of the shooting in front of a Midtown hotel — “delay” and “deny” — are two words familiar to many Americans who have interacted with insurance companies for almost anything other than routine doctor visits.
Mr. Thompson was chief executive of his company’s insurance division, which reported $281 billion in revenue last year, providing coverage to millions of Americans through the health plans it sold to individuals, employers and people under government programs like Medicare. The division employs roughly 140,000 people.
Mr. Thompson received a $10.2 million compensation package last year, a combination of $1 million in base pay and cash and stock grants. He was shot to death as he was walking toward the annual investor day for UnitedHealth Group, UnitedHealthcare’s parent company.
Stephan Meier, the chair of the management division at Columbia Business School, said the attack could send shock waves through the broader health insurance industry.
About seven chief executives of publicly traded companies die each year, he said, but almost always from health complications or accidents. A targeted attack could have much larger implications.
“The insurance industry is not the most loved, to put it mildly,” Mr. Meier said. “If you’re a C-suite executive of another insurance company, I would be thinking, What’s this mean for me? Am I next?”
A longtime employee of UnitedHealthcare said that workers at the company had been aware for years that members were unhappy. Mr. Thompson was one of the few executives who wanted to do something about it, said the employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the company does not allow workers to speak publicly without permission.
In speeches to employees, Mr. Thompson spoke about the need to change the state of health care coverage in the country and the culture of the company, topics other executives avoided, the employee said.
Already, there is heightened concern among some public-facing health care companies, said Eric Sean Clay, the president of the International Association for Healthcare Security and Safety. The trade group includes members that offer security to some of the largest health care companies in North America.
“The C.E.O.s are quite often the most visible face of an organization,” he said. “Sometimes people hate on that individual, and wish to do them harm.”
But few health care companies provide security for their executives, he said, in part to avoid bad optics, or because it may seem unnecessary.
After the Wednesday shooting, social media exploded with anger toward the insurance industry and Mr. Thompson.
“I pay $1,300 a month for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible. ($23,000 yearly) When I finally reached that deductible, they denied my claims. He was making a million dollars a month,” read one comment on TikTok.
Another commenter wrote, “This needs to be the new norm. EAT THE RICH.”
The author Joyce Carol Oates weighed in on social media, after an initial version of this story was published, saying that the outpouring of negativity “is better described as cries from the heart of a deeply wounded & betrayed country; hundreds of thousands of Americans shamelessly exploited by health-care insurers reacting to a single act of violence against just one of their multimillionaire executives.”
The shooting has also prompted patients and family members to weigh in publicly, sharing wrenching horror stories of insurance claim reimbursement stagnation and denials — painful recountings of insurance company interactions that have become all too familiar in a nation facing a health care crisis.
One woman expressed frustration with trying to get a special bed for her disabled son covered by UnitedHealthcare. Another user described struggling with bills and coverage after giving birth.
“It is so stressful,” the user said in a video. “I was sick over this.”
NYTimes doesn't turn on comments for most of their articles, but they do for some and it's always interesting to see what the most popular comments are. Keep in mind that the only people who can participate in the comments are active paying subscribers, and you're looking at a very specific demographic — and often this demographic doesn't toe the party line in the way that you'd expect given the publication.
In the comments section, subscribers can either leave a comment or mark a comment to "recommend" it. Basically, upvoting. The most popular comments on typical news stories get a few hundred recommends. More interesting things, and the recommends might climb above 1000. For super controversial topics, especially in the last year or so with trans-related news stories, the most recommended comments had 2-3 thousand recommends on them.
And then this article here? The top comment has over 10,000 recommends on it, and while the commenters' tones are rather more measured than the way people on other sites are talking about the event, they're still very much in line with how everyone — except the media and those in power! — are feeling about it.
Here are some of the top comments, and then another 30+ below the spoiler.
When all legal avenues to hold the powerful to account have been removed, and all attempts at reform have been defanged, this becomes the inevitability. An industry that provides no value, exponentially raises the cost of an product none of us choose to obtain and has so thoroughly purchased our politicians that public healthcare is beyond the Overton window should not be surprised at this result.
Oh man. Retired physician here, internist working in the hospital for years. Sorry for the family and this guy sounds mildly insightful into the issues with health insurance but I saw this coming . In the hospital we HATE united healthcare- they were the worst as far as denying post acute care stays, lots of phone calls to justify care. so much a time suck and harmed patients. Their profits are made with blood and tears.
"About seven chief executives of publicly traded companies die each year, he said, but almost always from health complications or accidents."
I bet none of them die for being denied coverage.
Goodness, the response to this crime is incredible. I can only assume NYPD uses just as many resources to solve other murders in theCity as the murder of this healthcare CEO right? Because othenvise that would imply some people's lives are worth more than others.
You might find some of the comments below surprising, considering (again) they were left by paid NYTimes subscribers. I've coloured red a few of them that I think that are particularly surprising or noteworthy
For profit insurance companies are for profit ..not for keeping Americans healthy, Denying coverage is how they make billions in profits and there are hundreds of thousands of people who were denied coverage after having paid thousands of dollars for coverage. Health insurance companies are the biggest scams carried out on Americans to date. It would make more sense to pay our doctors directly instead of nonmedical no ops ! We need Medicare for all ... period ! United Healthcare needs to be investigated for the hundreds of thousands of their policy holder's denied claims, more than time !
Brian Thompson did not deserve to die.
But our heartless, excruciating for-profit corporate healthcare racket deserves to die yesterday.
No other country has to put up with such an obscenely inefficient, overpriced, inhumane healthcare system.
But most other countries have democracies, unlike the USA, where dollarocracy is the law of the land.
This is what happens when ordinary Americans are economically terrorized by our 17% of GDP healthcare industry.
I can’t imagine the ammout of pain the CEO's family is going through. Having your husband or father murdered and millions of people say: he deserved it. At the same time how many thousands were bankrupted or died due to the egregious actions of his company? How much money is enough for corporate America?
When the Republicans kill Medicare, Medicaid, and the ACA, expect the gated communities these CEOs inhabit to become armed fortresses.
When actions you take threaten other people's lives, expect yours to be at risk as well.
United Healthcare led the industry in claim denials. Denials for post-acute care doubled between 2020 and 2022 (as earlier reported by tile NYT). Revenues soared even as covid was winding down. Seems he didn't care • that• much about improving their practices.
"Morbid glee" is accurate. Still a tragedy for his family - just as arbitrary claim denials are tragic and devastating for families all over the country.
This was utterly foreseeable and the killer will likely be remembered as an extreme anti-hero. Zero chance the industry executives will take away the right lesson though.
This case pretty much tells you everything you need to know about this country and how there are limitless resources and 'all hands on deck' to solve SOME crimes but not others.
United Healthcare used Al to determine that my ongoing therapy for our recent and devastating infertility diagnosis was medically unnecessary. Their call center representative contacted my therapist without consulting me and asked invasive questions about my treatment, progress, and when she thought that I might not need therapy anymore. This call center representative, who is not a mental health professional, suggested to my therapist that I move forward with group counseling instead of seeing her individually, as I have done this entire time. All of this because I am seeing my therapist once a week for an ongoing medical issue. No, I'm not surprised that people have rage boiling beneath the surface towards their insurers.
"Negative experiences' is downplaying the state of things to an extensive degree. UHC denies a third of its patients' requests, twice the average of major carriers, and about 4.Sx the 'best' major carrier {Kaiser). This is a product of a company-wide aim to deny claims. If Thompson wanted to “change things", that does not really explain why in 2023 UHC began using an Al approve/deny tool with a reported 90% error rate.
Nobody else in the developed world deals with a system like this. We need to have single-payer, universal healthcare. There is so much money we pay for medical care for that goes to compensate the bureaucrats, executives, and stockholders of health insurance companies instead going to doctors, nurses, and manufacturers of medical equipment
We don't need these middlemen, and when they stand in the way of necessary care for hundreds of thousands of Americans, rage is the inevitable result
Thompson was shot while on his way to an investors' conference - the insurance industry's highest priority.
So an employee claims Mr. Thompson wanted to “do something" about people's unhappiness with his company.
If only he had been in a position to do something....
Wait.
What's clear from the news coverage was that his life mattered a great deal to those in power, but the lives lost because insurance denied appropriate treatment, those lives are worth less. I wish half as much care, effort and attention were paid to the others who have died because of lack of access to healthcare. Those people were people with families, children, and loved ones as well. Their lives were not less valuable, just less valued.
The victim's compensation package is outrageous when there are families struggling to pay their medical bills. The shooter must have done his research. Can't wait to read his backstory.
The healthcare and health insurance industry has made this offer to Americans for the last few decades:
"your money OR your life (i.e. health)...you can have one, but not both"
Looks like the shoe is on the other foot now United Healthcare and fellow corporate healthcare extortionists.
How many people has Brian Thompson's company killed and maimed over the years, and why weren't any of its executives jailed for murder? This is what happens when the law helps the rich avoid consequences.
How nice that he wanted to "do something" about his company's "coverage." So why didn't he?
The extreme disparity in how this is being covered by the media - sensationalist horror, “chilling,” nonstop coverage - and the reaction I have seen uniformly across social media and in comments section - schadenfreude and understanding - is very revealing about the media, healthcare, and American culture as a whole.
Killing Mr. Thompson was wrong.
However, as a physician, I can confidently say that there are countless individuals (providers, medical support staff, and patients) who have regularly fantasized about killing someone from an insurance company.
Profits over people is just evil.
For continued subjugation by the elites, the masses either have to be contained with an iron boot on their necks (North Korea) or adequately pacified to maintain the rule of law (USA). Yesterday's events are evidence that the system of pacification is failing.
It's interesting how many resources are being devoted to solving this crime. So many murders go unsolved, but murder a member of the elite and no stone will remain unturned
Maybe the Times should instead focus on doing stories about patients who have died due to denied coverage by insurance companies. You're giving way too much attention to this guy while ignoring the sick and dead people who were at the mercy of these hoodlum companies and those running them.
You get what you pay for...or in this case, what you don't pay for.
People are sick of these corrupt companies ruining lives. Yet, you see no coverage of this in the NYT, only endless political commentary and culture wars. Let's see some front page stories on how companies like UHC letting people die so shareholders and the C suite can make a buck!
I'm sure the CEO's salary is comprised of bonuses related to denied claims. How many people have died needlessly because of these denials?
I am willing to bet a paycheck the assassin had himself or a family member denied coverage. As everyone's been saying of the President lately, “I can understand his action as a father.” To understand is not to condone, but if my bet is right, I understand the impulse.
It's truly ironic that other healthcare executives are sitting around wondering “am I next?”, when millions of Americans wake up every day to the same thought – “am I next to be denied coverage?”. Welcome to America.
My daughter was born with bi-lateral clubbed feet When she was 14 months old, she had corrective surgery. The insurance company paid for one foot, but not the other, claiming it does not cover two surgical procedures performed simultaneously. The surgeon and hospital argued with them for months, finally waiving everything that had anything to do with the second foot So, kudos and thanks to UW Hospital and Clinics; what I have to say to the insurance company cannot be printed.
I do not, in any way, condone this act or violence of any kind.
But...
There have been 346 other homicides this year in NYC, and I'm pretty sure none of them got a multi-day "manhunt.” The vast majority likely did not get even 1% of the resources expended towards solving this one (of a non-resident non-taxpayer, to boot). Nor did those killings get anything close this amount of attention from the media, even where the killings involved issues that are far more relevant and dangerous to the public at large, such as people with long histories of criminal violence and mental health issues being repeatedly released from custody until they murdered someone. 99.999% of us are more concerned about being shot or stabbed by someone fitting that profile than of an assassination. Being a CEO shouldn't make one's murder any more special or worthy of being solved than that of the rest of us and does not deserve an exceptional allocation of police resources.
The "dark commentary" is in direct proportion to the number of people this CEO has harmed and even killed with his focus on the bottom line. He may have killed them through bureaucracy and legalese as opposed to a bullet, but they are dead all the same.
They had a denial rate of 32%, the highest in the industry. The sort of hate directed toward them should give them pause.
Really? You're calling it “hate” and morbid glee" rather than valid, righteous fury? Knowing how evil this corporation is, even amongst its evil peers? Have you looked up the rate of denials? Have you extrapolated how many Americans this behemoth has killed?
There are two ways to make change: conversation and violence. It appears the talking time is over.
There is a reckoning coming. People have suffered for too long. Believe them when they tell you.
There is no place for murder in civil society. My condolences to those that loved him.
At the same time, it doesn't surprise me one bit that the public has responded with deep anger over the actions of this CEO and his company, and others like it. They, too, have blood on their hands. People have died because of their greed. Others have lost their homes and livelihoods, drowning in medical debt. Virtually everyone knows someone who has needlessly suffered and had needed medical care denied, contrary to the recommendations of their doctors. These companies are unethical, and often, as successful litigation has proven, liars and thieves (in the sense of using deliberate deception and unscrupulous methods to not provide a paid-for and life-sustaining service as promised).
As for United Healthcare, they are presently being sued for using an algorithm to automatically deny medical care for the elderly, with the 90% error rate in denials! See Estate of Gene B. Lokken et al. v. UnitedHealth Group, Inc. et al. in Minnesota District Court. You will find the case on Georgetown University's health care litigation tracker online. The site also links to other such lawsuits.
I feel like they've narrowed it down to about 160 million suspects.
@Socrates Respectfully, says you. I've felt nothing but schadenfreude over this.
This is how revolutions begin - the proletariat take action against aristocrats & the political class.
This may be a solitary event and not lead to any change, in healthcare nor government. But the message cannot be ignored and swept under the rug of respectable politics.
People have had enough of being sick to death - literally- while other people gain wealth from their demise.
Brian Thompson deserved it. As do others.
When you've even lost the support (and empathy) of the sort of people who pay for New York Times subscriptions, you're in a pretty dire position, indeed.
Populist politicians: take note! This is a vote winner that crosses race/gender/socioeconomic class boundaries.
IglyUglyOh
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 14, 2024
Oh for fuck’s sake. NY shares a border with Canada I hope he wasn’t dumb enough to trek across 7 states instead of hustling over the border.
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- Feb 24, 2016
No duh! Look up outlaws and criminals of the past. I'm sure if the gunman had succeeded in assassinating Trump, he would be seen as a folk hero by NYT employees.
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This guy needs to be caught ASAP. I wanna know his story.
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Anyone posted this yet? Some theme music for the thread:
For those unaware of The Coup and the album this song is on:
For those unaware of The Coup and the album this song is on:
(a)
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- Mar 4, 2023
From what I've seen mass shooters are simply trying to lash out at society and want to be infamous, they don't care at all if people support their actions or not that's the entire point of shooting random people indiscriminately. Some of them have a "message" they are trying to send but it seems like a lot of them are just straight up loser retards. I'm sure this guy will inspire some people to attempt the same thing but I doubt this will magically stop faggots from killing kids.
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What’s the possibility that he used a very subsonic round for his pistol which is why it wasn’t able to fully cycle?
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- Nov 30, 2022
olice/FBI have apparently identified the exact bus the shooter took which made six or seven stops and are investigating (across multiple states)
So not only do they need to search 7 cities, they also need to be lucky enough that the guy didn't just get off one bus and board another.
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This guy needs to have a long life and I hope he finds happiness after whatever loss motivated this shooting (because behind it all, there's someone he loved very much who died).
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- Dec 28, 2014
If you want to shoot one specific dude, shooting some other random person isn't going to satisfy that.
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I agree.
He needs to be caught so a jury can find him not guilty of any crimes.
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He’s got a four day head start already which is more than enough than he needs. He’s got friends in every town and city from New York to the Argentine. He speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He’ll blend in, disappear, you’ll never see him again. With any luck, he’s killed his next CEO already.
But I Digress
kiwifarms.net
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- Nov 26, 2019
There's a whole Sex Offender registry. Has their pictures, their home addresses and because they're felons they can't legally own firearms. Nobody is going to care if you kill the neighborhood nonce.
Surprised somebody with a terminal disease hasn't decided to clean house.
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if ever there was a case that called for jury nullification this would be one. probably the most cut and dry example since plauche.
these two men will forever be heroes to some groups of people, no matter what anyone else will tell them.
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- Nov 20, 2018