Better Call Saul

[AnOminous]

I like Todd

And Jack had one of the funniest lines in the entire series. When they were watching Jesse's video confession, he says, in the most disgusted voice imaginable, "Does this pussy cry through the whole thing?" It was a much-needed moment of comic relief in a part of the show that mostly nonstop grimness and despair.

I think both Jack and Todd were interesting characters. As for the lesser grunts, really how much character development do you need for cannon fodder anyway? It's like complaining that the mooks Tony Montana gunned down at the end of Scarface weren't well developed.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

How do we as a thread feel about Marie being so good at handjobs she can heal a paraplegic?

 

[AnOminous]

How do we as a thread feel about Marie being so good at handjobs she can heal a paraplegic?

I viewed her as being so fucking annoying when she first appeared, this weird BPD klepto psycho, that I hated her, but she came with that nice purple color scheme and she was incredibly loyal to Hank for putting up with her shit. That's why you put up with these BPD bitches, they give such great head and hand and anything else you want that if you end up paraplegic, they can cure it.

"GODDAMMIT MARIE, THEY'RE MINERALS!"

 

[UnKillFill]

Remember how Gus got Walt to come work for him. He bought Jesse's batch of blue meth that was below par, and Walt was pissed that his formula was being used without him. He knows Walt's an egotist. He says it's about the money, but in reality it's about the power, the recognition, and the boost to his ego, even if Walt doesn't know it.

Having said that, he could have handled it better. A sit down where Gus agrees to give Walt a no show job or something as a way of paying him royalties for the formula would have gone further than a threat. Walt doesn't have to launder money any more, everything is legit on paper, and he can stop paying Saul. But as I said, Walt would probably still want to get revenge for once again being booted out of something he believes was all him.

This is kind of a fault of Breaking Bad as a whole, but I never really understood what Walt's meth being "99% pure" even meant to the junkies who buy it, let alone to Gus selling it.

Why should Gus give a shit how pure the poison he's selling is? (I know Jessie asks something similar at one point, it never really gets answered, other than Walt being prideful.) Even if it saves money in production costs or something, which I'm assuming it does, Gale could still do 96%.
I feel like they should have explained better why that extra 3% was so worth it to Gus to put up with Walt's bullshit for as long as he did.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Why should Gus give a shit how pure the poison he's selling is?

Lydia explains this. They want to corner the market in Europe. So their "blue meth" is essential to become the largest methamphetamine dealers in the world.

 

[UnKillFill]

Lydia explains this. They want to corner the market in Europe. So their "blue meth" is essential to become the largest methamphetamine dealers in the world.

I don't think that answers my question. The meth wasn't blue because it was 99% pure, it was blue because of the technique Walt used to make it.
Even if they couldn't figure that out, they could have gotten the same effect with blue food coloring (which I don't think would make much of a difference in production costs, which was the only reason i could think of for caring about purity.
Also, I'm pretty sure Gale could make blue meth, his just wasn't as pure as Walt's was. And by the time Gale was killed, Jessie definitely could too.

 

[AnOminous]

I don't think that answers my question. The meth wasn't blue because it was 99% pure, it was blue because of the technique Walt used to make it.
Even if they couldn't figure that out, they could have gotten the same effect with blue food coloring (which I don't think would make much of a difference in production costs, which was the only reason i could think of for caring about purity.

The meth being blue was total bullshit and just made-up. Pure meth wouldn't have any color at all. Most of the color in meth is from the coloring in the coating of the precursor pills like the pseudoephedrine Walt didn't use anyway. There was never any explanation for why it was blue, other than that was Walt's thematic color.

In a case of reality imitating fiction, some meth dealers actually do now add blue food coloring to their meth.

Discerning dope fiends are actually concerned with purity, and unlike your usual white trailer trash who are happy with bathtub meth at 50% purity or less, both users and dealers want high purity, even if the dealers might only want that because they can step on it with shit like powdered milk and still deliver something that satisfies their customers. If the customers are lucky it's something harmless like that and not fent or that tranq shit.

So I really don't see it as that unrealistic that having the absolute best product would get you more market share.

What's unrealistic is that only one guy could actually do this. Pharmaceutical companies routinely make high purity pharmaceuticals, so you'd just need a superlab with a few highly competent people with discretion, and they'd be cranking out pure meth like every generic pharm lab cranks out generic versions of every normal prescription medicine that's out of patent.

Someone like Gus really wouldn't have had to put up with as much of a bitchy lunatic as Walt, and someone as smart as Gale could have figured this shit out on his own with no need for Walt. In reality, Walt would have ended up in a shallow grave very early into the show.

And how much fun would that have been?

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I don't think that answers my question. The meth wasn't blue because it was 99% pure, it was blue because of the technique Walt used to make it.
Even if they couldn't figure that out, they could have gotten the same effect with blue food coloring (which I don't think would make much of a difference in production costs, which was the only reason i could think of for caring about purity.
Also, I'm pretty sure Gale could make blue meth, his just wasn't as pure as Walt's was. And by the time Gale was killed, Jessie definitely could too.

Impurities can get clogged in pores and crystallize in certain tissues when meth is metabolized. The lower the purity, the more meth mites you feel. Higher purity is a better product.

The Blue meth thing is more of a usual aid for the show.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

The Saul we got from BB would’ve been more likely to do that. Unfortunately Gilligan again went for the Reddit “…and everyone stood up and clapped” route for BCS.

Which, is off theme for the show. One of the main themes of the show is about how the law can be abused, and with Saul we get him be like "yeah I made that all up lol" for some random redemption arc meant to show how he became "Jimmy" again? Hell, on the reddit point, I saw some redditors basically be like "omg Walter dies, Jessie goes free and Saul goes to prison" as if that is some intellectually complex symbolism. It really would have been a better pay off if Sault got off free, and would have basically linked into Chuck being right. Sure, guilt could be explored but ultimately its ego and the desire for more that is pivotal to Saul's character and that is basically shown even when he's "Jimmy".

Like what, are you telling me that the Saul who said "Goodbye Kim, have a nice life" and calling her a crybaby pussy on the phone is going to just go "oh, I'm totes guilty guys" over her incidentally spilling her guts on what happened to Howard a few days before hand, and that she was coincidently in ABQ for the trial?

 

[AnOminous]

Like what, are you telling me that the Saul who said "Goodbye Kim, have a nice life" and calling her a crybaby pussy on the phone is going to just go "oh, I'm totes guilty guys" over her incidentally spilling her guts on what happened to Howard a few days before hand, and that she was coincidently in ABQ for the trial?

That shit was retarded and basically broke the show.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Which, is off theme for the show. One of the main themes of the show is about how the law can be abused, and with Saul we get him be like "yeah I made that all up lol" for some random redemption arc meant to show how he became "Jimmy" again? Hell, on the reddit point, I saw some redditors basically be like "omg Walter dies, Jessie goes free and Saul goes to prison" as if that is some intellectually complex symbolism. It really would have been a better pay off if Sault got off free, and would have basically linked into Chuck being right. Sure, guilt could be explored but ultimately its ego and the desire for more that is pivotal to Saul's character and that is basically shown even when he's "Jimmy".

Like what, are you telling me that the Saul who said "Goodbye Kim, have a nice life" and calling her a crybaby pussy on the phone is going to just go "oh, I'm totes guilty guys" over her incidentally spilling her guts on what happened to Howard a few days before hand, and that she was coincidently in ABQ for the trial?

I think the point was that he was repressing his true self for years and was using the "you wouldnt do it" as an excuse not to turn himself in, i still dont like the idea as a plot point but it seemed obvious that those actions werent to show that Jimmy was truly dead and instead to show that he's trying to be something he's not

My problem with the ending is that it presents a false idea that Jimmy = bad, Saul = good, then gives the character a happy ending he really doesnt deserve. Even though it's prison, I never felt Jim/Saul valued freedom that much that going to prison for life is this big deal for him. The guy was free and miserable in the black and white segments, so he essentially gets to fuck Kim, be beloved by inmates and absolve himself of everything because he's a great guy now. It's the exact shit that Jesse and Breaking Bad as a whole mocked, that one bit of self-forgiveness can pave over psychological damage that will stick with you for life

 

[TheHarbinger]

My problem with the ending is that it presents a false idea that Jimmy = bad, Saul = good, then gives the character a happy ending he really doesnt deserve.

This is Breaking Bad's ending for the main characters. Walt gets to save Jesses and gives his family $18 million dollars. Jimmy gets to save Kim (and Howard's reputation) and give the DEA the entire Heisenberg timeline. Jesse gets to kill Todd's gang and escape to Alaska. They all get the endings that they want at that point in their lives. It's the endings that are fan service to make the show ending popular and not controversial or risky.

Walt just wants to give his family money then die of cancer. As a bonus he gets to kill the people who killed Hank and kidnapped his old partner. Jesse escapes to freedom but before then gets a bunch of revenge kills. Jimmy gets to have fun as Saul one last time then turns himself in becomes some prison leader and still gets to see Kim and she's actually happy to see him despite him being a cartel lawyer and murder accessory.

The guy was free and miserable in the black and white segments

He wasn't free though, he was completely retarded. His new cover is to dress and look exactly like himself and work in the largest shopping mall one state over from where he was just an FBI's Most Wanted fugitive. And show his face to tens of thousands of people every single week many of whom might be from his hometown. Instead of just taking a night shift job literally doing anything low profile where no one would see him or suspect he was anyone important.

El Camino takes place in September of 2010. Saul is working as the manager in the mall in October of 2010. So one month after a huge manhunt for Jesse and knowing Walt is dead he's working at a job where hundreds of people see his face daily. And by December of 2010 he is breaking into random houses and now caught once again and forced to flee until being caught.

It was just bad writing. He never should have been working in a public building that has tons of foot traffic. And he should have been relocated to somewhere further away. His character is as idiotic as the writing. He's the most wanted fugitive but spends nights robbing homes instead of just figuring out a way to remove the cab driver from his life that doesn't involve constant risk of being caught. He and Walt flee with millions but then both end up right back home like morons.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

This is Breaking Bad's ending for the main characters. Walt gets to save Jesses and gives his family $18 million dollars. Jimmy gets to save Kim (and Howard's reputation) and give the DEA the entire Heisenberg timeline. Jesse gets to kill Todd's gang and escape to Alaska. They all get the endings that they want at that point in their lives. It's the endings that are fan service to make the show ending popular and not controversial or risky.

Exactly, I agree, but I didnt mind so much of that because Breaking Bad's intent was as a crowd pleaser show and I still thought that the ending worked from an ironic point of view: Walter is dying, hated and ruined the lives of so many people but because he got to feel like the epic reddit badass he's happy with the circumstances. He lost everything, but because he won in this specific aspect of his life that made him feel manly he's happy even tho no one else in his position would be happy with that

But with Saul I wanted the ending to be riskier, Jimmy is a piece of shit that needed to see himself go to Hell metaphorically for his crimes. He should've been cowering in fear in prison, out of the frying pan into the fire. That's an appropriate ending for a conman, stuck having to put up with the one person he can't stand being alone with: himself. Naked Saul should've been a pathetic person, not an atoned legend

He wasn't free though, he was completely retarded. His new cover is to dress and look exactly like himself and work in the largest shopping mall one state over from where he was just an FBI's Most Wanted fugitive. And show his face to tens of thousands of people every single week many of whom might be from his hometown. Instead of just taking a night shift job literally doing anything low profile where no one would see him or suspect he was anyone important.

El Camino takes place in September of 2010. Saul is working as the manager in the mall in October of 2010. So one month after a huge manhunt for Jesse and knowing Walt is dead he's working at a job where hundreds of people see his face daily. And by December of 2010 he is breaking into random houses and now caught once again and forced to flee until being caught.

That is my point tho, he was technically free but didnt feel free, but I agree entirely with your point that the Gilligan Gang's obsession with "le cruel irony" was stupid. Gene either shouldnt have been working at a cinnabon, shouldve been working there after five years at least and not a few months, or both. The obsession with that symmetry and keeping everything connected ruined the stakes for me

It was just bad writing. He never should have been working in a public building that has tons of foot traffic. And he should have been relocated to somewhere further away. His character is as idiotic as the writing. He's the most wanted fugitive but spends nights robbing homes instead of just figuring out a way to remove the cab driver from his life that doesn't involve constant risk of being caught.

He did, in the Nippy episode. Then he went right back to doing crimes because he wanted the hit or was subconsciously wanting to get caught

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

What's unrealistic is that only one guy could actually do this. Pharmaceutical companies routinely make high purity pharmaceuticals, so you'd just need a superlab with a few highly competent people with discretion, and they'd be cranking out pure meth like every generic pharm lab cranks out generic versions of every normal prescription medicine that's out of patent.

Someone like Gus really wouldn't have had to put up with as much of a bitchy lunatic as Walt, and someone as smart as Gale could have figured this shit out on his own with no need for Walt. In reality, Walt would have ended up in a shallow grave very early into the show.

And how much fun would that have been?

Walt has the recipe though, and it's apperantly easy enough to cook in a trailer. So you can make high quality meth but the cost to price ratio wouldn't cover it and the amount of heat it will generate will be immense.

It's an acceptable justification why no one else could do it, and why Walt needs to be kept alive until someone else knows his recipe.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

I'd say that the idea that Walter makes really damn pure stuff is more the later seasons having to exaggerate his abilities in order to raise the stakes. My interpretation was Walt made very high quality meth by the standards of druggies, and that Gus while a big cartel guy is not employing literally scientists at that point in the first two seasons that some mildly competent chemist willing to deal drugs would be a good get who could expand his market by offering a higher quality and thus more addictive and profitable product

Ofc. then you have to make it so the product is just inhumanely pure, which sure I can sort of buy that purely off of the fact that the kind of people that good at chemistry probably are going to not be willing to throw their lives away to make really good meth. Walt's in a unique position there of being a talented failure and also retarded enough to want to larp as Scareface. I just think at that point they had to do superhero-level writing for Walt in order to justify his talent, Jesse figured it out why couldnt one of Gus' 50 scientists?

Maybe his methology is just more efficient, hence he's able to teach it to Jesse and Jesse is able to teach it to the Mexicans

btw this just came out i like the guy but his stuff can be hit or miss. havent watched it yet, give your thoughts if you do

 

[AnOminous]

As a bonus he gets to kill the people who killed Hank and kidnapped his old partner.

I honestly don't think he cared about Hank so much as his total loss of power and grandiosity. After all, he was going to let killing Hank and stealing his money slide and just die of cancer until he found out Jack was cooking his meth and decided it meant Jesse was alive.

He even used Hank's death to try to save Skyler while Maria was listening in. "He crossed me." To make Skyler look like a victim who had been coerced into going along with his crimes, instead of someone who was almost or even as guilty as he was.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

There's no feeling like that feeling when you get the last song in at a Karaoke bar and it's "The Winner Takes it All",,


Now if you excuse, time for me to become McGirilled. Sorry Trannies, it ain't McGirlled.

 

[The handsome tard]

There’s no Danny Trejo’s head on a turtle, Hank investigating their criminal activities, or whatever. They aren’t a properly built up antagonist. If it was a rival cartel that was more ruthless than Gus than they likely could’ve been fine. Cartels regularly human traffic (Jesse being a slave moved across location to location to supervise cooks) and have people who work in New Mexico and Arizona government. The Neo-Nazis are a fucking biker gang with the lamest character in breaking bad backing them (Lydia).

They kind of teased that guy Walt had the "say my name" speech to be the new antagonist tho he really turned out to be a nothing burger as he was more than satisfied with his own operation, especially since Gus, the cartel AND Heisenberg were now out of the picture so he practically had no major competition left. He didn't even give a shit the meth was lower quality, he knew that shit was a poor man's cocaine so why bother with 99 purity ? Meth heads surely don't give a shit.

Ngl, I almost felt bad for him and his crew getting wiped out, he just wanted to work in peace damn it.

 

[Cave Fisher]

My problem with the ending is that it presents a false idea that Jimmy = bad, Saul = good, then gives the character a happy ending he really doesnt deserve. Even though it's prison, I never felt Jim/Saul valued freedom that much that going to prison for life is this big deal for him. The guy was free and miserable in the black and white segments, so he essentially gets to fuck Kim, be beloved by inmates and absolve himself of everything because he's a great guy now. It's the exact shit that Jesse and Breaking Bad as a whole mocked, that one bit of self-forgiveness can pave over psychological damage that will stick with you for life

I suppose it makes sense for him to get away with everything, but the whole-ass superhero route they went for at the last second REALLY left a bad taste in my mouth with him getting off scott-free, the reveal that he's actually well respected in the prison with them chanting "better call saul" right after he made a big show in the courtroom about calling himself Jimmy again, and Kim liking him again, meanwhile fuck Marie and the countless people he's screwed over by hard-carrying Walt's operations.
While you COULD could argue Walter and Jesse got happy endings too, Walt died alone from a bullet wound in a drug lab after losing everything and everybody he's ever met fucking hating his guts because he's destroyed so many of their lives, plus he only really got what only he'd himself consider a happy ending after going back to kill Jack and take Blue Sky off the market. Jesse also went through an absolute ton of shit before he finally made it to Alaska, and even then, there's no guarantee he stayed 100% clean and out of jail for the rest of his life. Jimmy's ending on the other hand, is just framed wayyy too happily and optimistic for me for a character who's biggest hardship he got from the drug game was being kinda depressed while working in the Cinnabon.

His new cover is to dress and look exactly like himself and work in the largest shopping mall one state over from where he was just an FBI's Most Wanted fugitive. And show his face to tens of thousands of people every single week many of whom might be from his hometown. Instead of just taking a night shift job literally doing anything low profile where no one would see him or suspect he was anyone important.

That said, I find it pretty hilarious that Walt and Jesse got some reasonably remote areas to flee to, while Saul just hopped a couple of towns over and put on a mustache for a couple of months, working a job that requires constant interaction with people in broad daylight after making god knows how many enemies in his career.

 

[TheHarbinger]

While you COULD could argue Walter and Jesse got happy endings too, Walt died alone from a bullet wound in a drug lab after losing everything and everybody he's ever met fucking hating his guts because he's destroyed so many of their lives, plus he only really got what only he'd himself consider a happy ending after going back to kill Jack and take Blue Sky off the market.

Walt got the happiest ending by far. He gets to leave his family millions of dollars in clean money. Visit his wife one last time who seems relieved to see him and even covers him against the DEA and police. He gets to torment Gretchen and Elliot one last time and extort millions from them out of personal revenge. He gets one final rampage against people whom he hates which also secures his blue meth formula from ever being recreated. He even gets to kill Lydia and taunt her over the phone for more personal revenge. He gets to make amends with Jesse by freeing him. He knows that he will become an even further public legend by dying fighting a Nazi gang by himself.

And finally he's going to be dead of cancer within the month if not week so him going out in a blaze of glory is no sweat. Walt's ending is him going out on his own terms. Cancer doesn't even get to kill him. Walt probably felt the best in his life as he lay dying in a lab thinking about how Jesse was happy to see him and his family will be wealthy for generations.