Do activists who push the Extermination Theory of how Indians lost America realize how weak and incompetent that makes Indians look? - Why is calling indians losers considered the politically correct thing to do?

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

And remember, the Central Americans and the Incas were subjugated by a few hundred spaniards with rather primitive firearms, breastplates and horses, and those were powerful kingdoms with functioning infrastructure, a far cry from nomads in tents.

Didn't the Spaniards make friends with smaller, less developed tribes than the Aztecs or Incas?

Because those specific tribes were sick of the Aztecs, as they were considered depraved and evil even by Mesoamerican standards, so jumped at the opportunity to overthrow them once and for all?

 

[Tar&FeatherFurrys]

Pretty sure that's my fault guys, It seems to coordinate around the time my extra hot mixtape dropped. Sorry for any and all inconveniences, but hey at least you got casino's and cheap cigarettes for sale because of me.

So in a way, you're welcome.

 

[Judge Holden]

Didn't the Spaniards make friends with smaller, less developed tribes than the Aztecs or Incas?

Because those specific tribes were sick of the Aztecs, as they were considered depraved and evil even by Mesoamerican standards, so jumped at the opportunity to overthrow them once and for all?

This pattern is hilariously fucking ubiquitous worldwide in history

Take a geographically limited range of territory (limits are usually water/mountains/forests/swamps/deserts/tundra/steppe) with a bunch of competing states/tribes/whatever, eventually one will rise to effective hegemon and act like a massive asshole to the rest.

Eventually an external state/tribe/whatever will become powerful enough to break through this limit in force, which in and of itself establishes it as massively more powerful than said massive asshole, which along with the antics of said asshole automatically make everybody else either stay the hell out of the newcomer's way, or actively join it for a chance at a share of spoils

 

[$5.3 Million Dollars]

Didn't the Spaniards make friends with smaller, less developed tribes than the Aztecs or Incas?

Because those specific tribes were sick of the Aztecs, as they were considered depraved and evil even by Mesoamerican standards, so jumped at the opportunity to overthrow them once and for all?

The Tlaxcalteca were one of the major ones to the point where some of them were granted nobility/coats of arms by the Spanish as well as an audience with the king of Spain. It should be noted even they had a problem with a lot of their people dying by disease.

While Smallpox is often toted as the gravest offender it was far from the only one. They also got hit with things unintentionally brought over like diphtheria, measles, chicken pox, and many more. Its why contacting uncontacted tribes these days is still essentially a death sentence for a good portion of their population. A larger population is more likely to be exposed to disease and has a resistance to it, when the smaller population gets exposed to it they lack that resistance built up over generations and it becomes much more fatal.

And for those of you who love the blacks, there's also the theory that importing African slaves greatly ramped this up.

https://www.mpg.de/14805077/slavery-entailed-the-spread-of-epidemics

 

[Judge Holden]

While Smallpox is often toted as the gravest offender it was far from the only one. They also got hit with things unintentionally brought over like diphtheria, measles, chicken pox, and many more. Its why contacting uncontacted tribes these days is still essentially a death sentence for a good portion of their population. A larger population is more likely to be exposed to disease and has a resistance to it, when the smaller population gets exposed to it they lack that resistance built up over generations and it becomes much more fatal.

Another factor that gets very aggressively ignored entirely in pop-history narratives is just how terrifyingly susceptible to famine *all* civilisations were worldwide until the last century or so, and even for half of this time we were still only gradually getting our shit together and figuring out what anti famine measures worked and what didn't.

There is a reason why just about all states made "have a massive segment of the population figuratively or literally chained to work the fucking fields" their top priority since antiquity, with this basic fucking need to prevent a very literal apocalypse being in large part the reason why autocratic systems of government and leadership like nobility and monarchy (i.e. people whose command of "GET BACK TO FUCKING WORK YOU GAY ASS PEASANTS" had to be obeyed on pain of death or worse) existed to begin with, as leaving this shit to public debate and beaurocracy was straight up not capable of handling shit like this with any reliability or expedience needed to ensure one's civilisation didn't just fucking die screaming because of a string of bad harvests

What this also means is that whenever some great calamitous event randomly happened like an invasion or plague or natural disaster which wound up either killing or scaring off the ones producing the food, there was straight up no way of averting famine by any means due to how fragile the supply chain already was in these times and the total lack of serious international trade that would allow mass imports of food on time (another thing those evil fucking white people brought along). With regards to the injuns, it was not simply that 90% of them got sick and died. Just that enough got sick and died to ensure that the rest would not only lack manpower to tend the fields or hunt for food (the latter in case of smaller tribes) but would also be thrown into total chaos and unable to effectively function.

Spain and the rest of the Europeans could have turned up with nothing but flowers and consensual interracial romance poetry, and the new world would have still turned into one giant fucking charnel house solely due to the fact they showed the fuck up and unknowingly overturned the existentially precarious applecart of civilisation

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

North American Indians were still hunter-gatherer nomads while the central and south-americans had built civilization, so it is pretty obvious that their population was quite a lot lower. To be fair, NA climate is less ideal for agriculture than in the south, but nomadic tribes just can't support large populations.

And remember, the Central Americans and the Incas were subjugated by a few hundred spaniards with rather primitive firearms, breastplates and horses, and those were powerful kingdoms with functioning infrastructure, a far cry from nomads in tents.

North American Indians weren't nomads, at least not all of them. They farmed corn and shit, that's why we eat corn on Thanksgiving. Actually, they even domesticated sunflowers. Problem with corn is that it exhausts the soil, so without as sophisticated of an agricultural system it just made more sense to move the entire village. This wasn't a problem for the Aztecs and shit since Mexico doesn't get very cold in the winter and they had cotton. And the Inca gave the world llamas and alpacas.

Aztecs and Inca got destroyed because the Spanish made friends with the right enemy tribes and marched on them at the head of large tribal armies. Being able to seize the rulers of the empires alive and set up puppet rulers helped a lot too.

Similarly, during the American Indian wars the white Europeans duly noted that Indian slaving raids deliberately killed anyone except young women (usually). They actively killed all children under age like 10 or something. The Americans thought this was disgusting and the Indians refused to be bound by the white man morality.

No, they'd "adopt" children and raise them as their own. Some of them would be slaves or servants, others would be raised to replace dead tribe members. Girls were just the most likely to be abducted since young boys were more easily able to get away or make themselves threatening enough to get scalped and killed.

not when germ theory was 200+ years away from being discovered. Rest of your post can be considered a valid point tho

Smallpox blankets were known to be infectious long before germ theory was discovered. Anything associated with people who died of illness was considered bad, that's why people would dump dead bodies into wells to deny them to enemies and why the word "quarantine" came from a medieval Italian policy where nobody was allowed off a newly arrived ship for 40 days during plagues.

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

Yes, the extermination story paints natives as incompetents to a degree. But the overwhelming tone is a jewish narrative that these people were all holding hands and peacefully swapping genetics around a campfire - until A White Man Ruined It All (by showing up).

This is a big business in the West right now, guilting whites into acts of self-flagellation, taxation, and humiliation.

I appreciate all the fine points of American History. I just refute the notion that one racial subset of citizens today owe a debt of servitude to another tribe.

 

[Bonesjones]

that's why people would dump dead bodies into wells to deny them to enemies

Ah yes a jew talking about how people would just dump dead bodies in wells for no reason. I wonder who kept poisoning wells throughout history?

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

You realize none of these contradict each other?

It was densely populated until germs killed almost all of them and left a tiny disorganized population behind.

 

[One Winged Pear Farmer]

If you think them being densely populated and still losing makes them look weak then you’re just a retard that doesn’t understand what a vast advantage technology gives in prolonged wars of attrition. Railroads alone basically guaranteed they couldn’t win

 

[you22]

Due to the vast land and abundant resources, communication between people is difficult due to the large size of the land, and the lack of competition caused by abundant resources ultimately leads to their ideas, technology, and tactics falling behind those of Europe

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Due to the vast land and abundant resources, communication between people is difficult due to the large size of the land, and the lack of competition caused by abundant resources ultimately leads to their ideas, technology, and tactics falling behind those of Europe

No, communication was very easy. Like for instance the Iroquois terrorized everyone from New York to Illinois in their heyday and turned most of it into a private hunting reserve to sell furs to white people. Rivers and people raised from birth to go around wandering the woods made communication easy. They were also fairly good tactically. Stay quiet, find the best path, blend in, and trick the poor enemy into getting an arrow in the eye socket. Worked very well. They won plenty of battles against whites, and got even more lethal once they bought guns from whites.

Problem was they couldn't make their own guns, totally lacked artillery, and their numbers were quite bad compared to whites. So their solution was usually starting a race war which went quite poorly and got every white who could carry a gun, including women and children, up in arms against them. Meanwhile there'd always be tribes who didn't want a race war against whites so they'd never be united. End result was Indians getting massacred and losing to superior numbers.

Oh yeah, and then whites figured out Indian tactics and usually were better at them like Kit Carson, he was one scary motherfucker.

 

[you22]

No, communication was very easy. Like for instance the Iroquois terrorized everyone from New York to Illinois in their heyday and turned most of it into a private hunting reserve to sell furs to white people. Rivers and people raised from birth to go around wandering the woods made communication easy. They were also fairly good tactically. Stay quiet, find the best path, blend in, and trick the poor enemy into getting an arrow in the eye socket. Worked very well. They won plenty of battles against whites, and got even more lethal once they bought guns from whites.

Problem was they couldn't make their own guns, totally lacked artillery, and their numbers were quite bad compared to whites. So their solution was usually starting a race war which went quite poorly and got every white who could carry a gun, including women and children, up in arms against them. Meanwhile there'd always be tribes who didn't want a race war against whites so they'd never be united. End result was Indians getting massacred and losing to superior numbers.

Oh yeah, and then whites figured out Indian tactics and usually were better at them like Kit Carson, he was one scary motherfucker.

What you're talking about is the communication between Native Americans and colonies, and what I'm talking about is the difficulty of communication between Native Americans in North America, just like there is no evidence of communication between the Iroquois and the Cahokia