General Wrestling Discussion

[Preferred Penne]

Another gem from WWE Vault: Kurt Angle vs. Christian at the Funkin' Dojo from August 1998. Angle is supposedly a raw rookie but he looks like a ten-year vet.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Another gem from WWE Vault: Kurt Angle vs. Christian at the Funkin' Dojo from August 1998. Angle is supposedly a raw rookie but he looks like a ten-year vet.

3 factors at play there.

1. A Funk is the trainer. You really couldn't ask for better teachers.

2. It's Kurt. He's a fucking freak.

3. It's.. It's Christian. Best worker in the biz. Just ask Christian.

Also Dory had his last match, supposedly, this year on August 24th at 83 years old. Little factoid.

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

3 factors at play there.

1. A Funk is the trainer. You really couldn't ask for better teachers.

2. It's Kurt. He's a fucking freak.

3. It's.. It's Christian. Best worker in the biz. Just ask Christian.

Also Dory had his last match, supposedly, this year on August 24th at 83 years old. Little factoid.

Great Kojika is still wrestling occasionally at 82. He is working that Masanobu Fuchi schedule of showing up a couple of times a year to work. I think he is the oldest currently active wrestler since Dory retired.

 

[Caddo Cobgang]

ive been warming up to Gable as of late, I kind of thought of him as the Jannetty to Jason Jordan when they were a tag team in NXT, boy was I fucking wrong, Chad would be one of my picks to dethrone Cody for the title at some point, even if its just one of those brief 2-month heel runs I think he could do some good things

NXT really shouldn't be booking 8000 seat arenas anyway, outside of Royal Rumble/WrestleMania/Summerslam weekends.

that much is true, most people are already in the wrestling mood during Rumble/Mania season so theyll catch Stand and Deliver before Mania starts for example, id say this 3.0 era of NXT is pretty good in terms of being able to promote, even my brother-in-law who is generally a casual wrestling fan is familar with a lot of the talent in NXT

 

[Rick The Stick]

Great Kojika is still wrestling occasionally at 82. He is working that Masanobu Fuchi schedule of showing up a couple of times a year to work. I think he is the oldest currently active wrestler since Dory retired.

On one hand, I'm a mark. I think it's impressive for these old farts to still be able to get in there, no matter how limited.

On the other, I don't wanna hear about someone's grandad dying in the ring because they just couldn't let go or, God forbid, still needed the money.

Wrestling's weird.

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

On one hand, I'm a mark. I think it's impressive for these old farts to still be able to get in there, no matter how limited.

On the other, I don't wanna hear about someone's grandad dying in the ring because they just couldn't let go or, God forbid, still needed the money.

Wrestling's weird.

Pretty sure Kojika wants to die in the ring. He still books himself in BJW death matches, and he still takes the bumps. Like Kojika was wrestling while Rikidozan was wrestling. He started wrestling three years after Inoki and Baba started and outlasted their in-ring careers by decades. Hell he still moves and works better than Masanobu Fuchi who is only 70 years old.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Meltzer talked on his latest podcast about how live attendance for anything but Raw and Smackdown has utterly shit the bed. AEW is way down and they can only really sell out smaller venues or places they haven't been before at this stage. NXT has sold 1500 for a venue that holds 8000, another show only has 750 tickets sold. The annual NJPW show in San Jose that usually sells out has only sold 700 tickets so far.

I can sort of understand AEW and NJPW because they are ice cold at the moment but even though i don't watch NXT i get the impression that the product is fairly good at the moment. Maybe wrestling is just heading into another lull period?

I'm not sure how you can deduce wrestling is going into a lull period because NXT isn't doing gangbusters.

I'd want more details on the NXT shows because my first impression is that its Meltzer trying to equate NXT to AEW.

 

[Hijo de D. Woodchucks Jr.]

I'm not sure how you can deduce wrestling is going into a lull period because NXT isn't doing gangbusters.

I'd want more details on the NXT shows because my first impression is that its Meltzer trying to equate NXT to AEW.

The first mistake is not disregarding everything coming out the mouth of a known AEW propagandist that swears up and down he's a journalist, like that's something to brag about.

 

[ForgedBlades]

AEW Collision 12.7.24: 177k viewers/0.04 18-35

Spoiler

 

[Looney Troons]

How does AEW continue to stay afloat? You know what the WWE does and always has done incredibly well? Merchandising. I still have all of my Jakk’s Pacific toys I had as a kid that must’ve cost my parents a small fortune. I have seen a few Bullet Club shirts in the wild over the past ten years, but I constantly see nWo and other WWE branded apparel all over the place. It’s like as time goes on, AEW ceases to exist.

I hear more people talk about CZW and GCW events than AEW.

 

[Magic Sun Daddy]

How does AEW continue to stay afloat? You know what the WWE does and always has done incredibly well? Merchandising. I still have all of my Jakk’s Pacific toys I had as a kid that must’ve cost my parents a small fortune. I have seen a few Bullet Club shirts in the wild over the past ten years, but I constantly see nWo and other WWE branded apparel all over the place. It’s like as time goes on, AEW ceases to exist.

I hear more people talk about CZW and GCW events than AEW.

So long as the Khan's continue to dump money into it, the doors will stay open, just like Ted Turner with WCW. Although that comparison sort of falls flat when you consider the fact that WCW was still making a decent profit even in it's dying days. It just wasn't enough of a profit to sway executives who were already bias against wrestling and were looking for an excuse to cut them off.

 

[Figantic Gaggot]

So long as the Khan's continue to dump money into it, the doors will stay open, just like Ted Turner with WCW. Although that comparison sort of falls flat when you consider the fact that WCW was still making a decent profit even in it's dying days. It just wasn't enough of a profit to sway executives who were already bias against wrestling and were looking for an excuse to cut them off.

i like to think that WCW would still be around had the execs been interested in keeping it and not be biased against it. i wonder what that big bang ppv would've been like

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

AEW Collision 12.7.24: 177k viewers/0.04 18-35

Spoiler

View attachment 6735033

No 180K?

How does AEW continue to stay afloat?

You know damn well why

I hear more people talk about CZW and GCW events than AEW.

AEW just pulled Willie Mack from a bunch of GCW show, and the GCW guys are crying about it. So you will get to hear more about AEW in the coming days.

 

[trent]

How does AEW continue to stay afloat? You know what the WWE does and always has done incredibly well? Merchandising. I still have all of my Jakk’s Pacific toys I had as a kid that must’ve cost my parents a small fortune. I have seen a few Bullet Club shirts in the wild over the past ten years, but I constantly see nWo and other WWE branded apparel all over the place. It’s like as time goes on, AEW ceases to exist.

I hear more people talk about CZW and GCW events than AEW.

Mostly their TV deals and live gate for the bigger PPVs. All In Texas went on pre-sale today and already sold $1 million worth of tickets.

I'd imagine that their mid/low card guys are getting paid a fairly average salary and are just there for the steady money they wouldn't get in the bingo halls, that's a huge advantage. You can pay the likes of Serpentico and the Renegade Twins 50k a year and use them as main talent on RoH and as jobbers on AEW occasionally and it fills time on your TV show for fuck all money. You'd have a few huge contracts which would put a dent in their coffers but apparently WBD covers some of the cost of putting on the TV shows so that would soften the blow on that.

They are probably making a loss but it more than likely isn't in 10s of millions and if they can become an established brand with their new TV deal and MAX streaming then advertisers will throw cash at them.

Then you have the fact that the Khans empire was allegedly worth at least 4 times what pre-TKO WWE was. That puts the in a position to run AEW as a loss making business for decades if they want to. The wrestling company is basically a side hustle to all the rest of their shit.

 

[Well Intentioned]

The first mistake is not disregarding everything coming out the mouth of a known AEW propagandist that swears up and down he's a journalist, like that's something to brag about.

Yeah, that's where I was going with that.

The fact that things are getting so dire that even Meltzer has to acknowledge that AEW is drawing shitty sure is a sign, though.

Whatever happened to the Snowman swearing up and down booking bigger venues was, ackshully, a good thing because of discounts or marketing or whatever. Are we entering a period of cost cutting for AEW? Is the cocaine monomania psychosis wearing off?

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

I'd imagine that their mid/low card guys are getting paid a fairly average salary and are just there for the steady money they wouldn't get in the bingo halls, that's a huge advantage. You can pay the likes of Serpentico and the Renegade Twins 50k a year and use them as main talent on RoH and as jobbers on AEW occasionally and it fills time on your TV show for fuck all money. You'd have a few huge contracts which would put a dent in their coffers but apparently WBD covers some of the cost of putting on the TV shows so that would soften the blow on that.

Did you watch that Netflix series on OVW? There is a dude there, Ca$hflo, who worked a few matches in AEW. As just a bottom of the rung job guy he got a huge paycheque for an journeyman indie jobber. It was a massive payday for his family. I don't know if Tony still pays out like that, but I haven't heard anyone bitching about getting paid less.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Mostly their TV deals and live gate for the bigger PPVs. All In Texas went on pre-sale today and already sold $1 million worth of tickets.

Then you have the fact that the Khans empire was allegedly worth at least 4 times what pre-TKO WWE was. That puts the in a position to run AEW as a loss making business for decades if they want to. The wrestling company is basically a side hustle to all the rest of their shit.

The answer isn't 'TV deals and live gate' as to why AEW is keeping afloat. It's what you just outlined: the Khans have more money than sense. Literally setting a bundle of money on fire would be more cost-effective than running AEW if they were looking for ways to fritter money away.

A million in ticket sales is like, what, 25% of Mercedes Mone's contract?

That's not even accounting for operations (your payroll and HR (LOL) people, your lawyers, your ring crew, etc.) and logistics (transporting the ring, cameras, set, etc.) costs, marketing costs (creating shit like that $$$$ Vickie and Nyla bikini poster and other wonderful merch, general advertising, etc.), production costs (pyro, any other gimmicky shit, anything relating to putting out the actual PPV/tv show), etc.

Live events generally break even or run at a bit of a loss, it's your merch and concession that generally make that money, which is my understanding with WWE and how they make their money, excepting their big mega events like Wrestlemania.

This sounds like I'm shitting on AEW with the above, and I'm not really trying to. The fact that they did pull a milly in ticket sales is laudable, but I think it is a non-issue with their bottom line. The fact that the Snowman has the opportunity to grow a competitor due to his family's money is a huge advantage and I don't know why AEW fans (not necessarily saying you, just in general) are so resistant to acknowledging that. Who gives a shit if they're losing money if the principles are fine with it? Their focus should be on growth, brand awareness, etc. rather than being 'profitable' or whatever. More Paul Heyman ECW and less Time Warner WCW.

I've said before that competition is good and having a viable competitor to WWE is a net good in the long run, assuming they don't become a complete clown show. Unfortunately, the Snowman seems to be gunning for the world record any% speedrun and, to use an MMA analogy, they're on the fast track to becoming the next Bellator rather than the next Pride.

 

[Kaizer Ghidorah]

WCW was still making a decent profit

Were they? Way I heard it wcw almost never turned a profit made a massive profit for 2-3 year then proceeded to lose more money than it ever made in it's last couple

 

[Neighborhood Janny]

Not gonna lie bros, I'd drag my dick through a country mile of broken glass and thumbtacks just to hear Liv Morgan queef through a walkie talkie and be thankful for the opportunity.

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

The shot (seethe)

and chaser (cope)