Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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The AI bug report thing is going to get out of control damn fast, it’s automated pajeets and the Internet isn’t prepared. It’s eternal September all over again.
We already have a problem of incompetent people being rushed through CompSci, LLMs are only going to make said incompetents harder to deal with online. Suddenly, said incompetents have some magic word generator telling them X code is bad, and being individuals who have been told they’re “good with computers” and dabbled with light Python they suddenly think they’re Steve Jobs because they recognize some of the words the magic box spits out. And then, because they lack a voice of their own, they copy/paste entire responses.
 
We already have a problem of incompetent people being rushed through CompSci, LLMs are only going to make said incompetents harder to deal with online. Suddenly, said incompetents have some magic word generator telling them X code is bad, and being individuals who have been told they’re “good with computers” and dabbled with light Python they suddenly think they’re Steve Jobs because they recognize some of the words the magic box spits out. And then, because they lack a voice of their own, they copy/paste entire responses.

Anecdotal, but a lot of the junior devs I work with seem incapable of plain old "figuring things out". Every problem they come across, they send me the error, and ask how to fix it. When I probe into what they have done to troubleshoot... nothing. Bitch, I'm not your personal ChatGPT.

At worst, google the error. At best, put some dimples in that smooth brain of yours and do some problem solving. Understand the context, read some documentation, learn to use debugging tools. Anything.

Perhaps this is just a naturally biased observation of being a senior engineer, but a lot of these kids can't do shit. Potentially a serious skills issue in the next decade.
 
Perhaps this is just a naturally biased observation of being a senior engineer, but a lot of these kids can't do shit. Potentially a serious skills issue in the next decade.
I've noticed it as well, both the junior devs and the pajeet horde fucking suck at troubleshooting and rather than investigate something they immediately run to the first person that they know will fix the issue. They also have zero curiosity and no interest in figuring out how things work, basic networking shit is like fucking magic to these people.
 
I've noticed it as well, both the junior devs and the pajeet horde fucking suck at troubleshooting and rather than investigate something they immediately run to the first person that they know will fix the issue. They also have zero curiosity and no interest in figuring out how things work, basic networking shit is like fucking magic to these people.
Is this why the CompTIA A+ is so easy? I didn't even have to study for it.
 
Anecdotal, but a lot of the junior devs I work with seem incapable of plain old "figuring things out". Every problem they come across, they send me the error, and ask how to fix it. When I probe into what they have done to troubleshoot... nothing. Bitch, I'm not your personal ChatGPT.
I've noticed it as well, both the junior devs and the pajeet horde fucking suck at troubleshooting and rather than investigate something they immediately run to the first person that they know will fix the issue. They also have zero curiosity and no interest in figuring out how things work, basic networking shit is like fucking magic to these people.
I've noticed this a lot in open source projects I work with, from people who supposedly know what they're doing. Like, come on, [tool] tells you whats wrong and sometimes how to fix it in the message. Stop sending me screenshots with the equivalent of "pls fix".

Edit: Clarifying that the people mentioned are users, not contributors, though this particular tool is somewhat technical.
 
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Anecdotal, but a lot of the junior devs I work with seem incapable of plain old "figuring things out". Every problem they come across, they send me the error, and ask how to fix it. When I probe into what they have done to troubleshoot... nothing. Bitch, I'm not your personal ChatGPT.
I want to agree, but I must point out that most programming these days seems to involve incomprehensible shit. These people have probably never used real languages and decent tools in their lives.
At worst, google the error.
While useful, I can remember when people used to complain about people using Google rather than thinking.
Understand the context, read some documentation, learn to use debugging tools. Anything.
The documentation is usually shit, and the debugging tools usually pretty bad. I've found strace to be more pleasant than GDB when I can get away with it, but avoiding both is best.
Perhaps this is just a naturally biased observation of being a senior engineer, but a lot of these kids can't do shit. Potentially a serious skills issue in the next decade.
The issue is these people have never been taught to think, perhaps, if they can. I don't know what environments and languages are in use over there, but I'll use Python as an example. I don't even use that shitty language, but I've read about it a decent bit. I vividly remember reading this article:
https://vorpus.org/blog/control-c-handling-in-python-and-trio/ (archive)

Look at how complicated and unreasonably difficult handling C-c is in Python. The answer is to use the big fucking library someone else wrote. In Common Lisp land, I use UNWIND-PROTECT, which has a lineage back to TECO, and I don't have to give a fuck because it's a language primitive. Python, being anything but a real language, just doesn't have a good solution without contortions, and most people who teach it aren't inclined to teach how unsuitable it is for, really, anything. This isn't even touching on the shitty UNIX signal model. Can anyone reasonably fix it, or is he just expected to deal with this unacceptable shit?

That article dives into the internals of the Python interpreter itself. How many Python programmers are afraid to open up the hood and look around? How many who do would be able to get any value out of it, with how large that program is, in an entirely different language?

It's like this everywhere in shitty systems. The Python bytecode hack heavily resembles the hack Intel added for interrupt handlers, basically blessing a very specific sequence of code to solve an otherwise unsolvable problem.

This touches on a different issue also. Why should programmers be expected to find a random person's writing on the Internet to get this kind of knowledge? It's clearly because the documentation is shit. Everytime I see people praise Beej's Guide to Network Programming and how important it was to them, I wonder why a single guy was able to write something so important to begin with; now, in this case it's because people don't even know where to find the official documentation, somewhat.

Argument to past stupidity is rampant in programming. The Linux kernel uses programming practices that were fucking retarded fifty years ago. Ask them, and they'll explain how they clearly can't have been fucking retarded for the past twenty years, so clearly they're doing things correctly. Why the fuck should a human being want to learn any of this worthless shit, especially if he's just in it for the money, which he likely is?

So, there's an answer: Almost no one gives a fuck, almost everyone who does give a fuck is wrong, and the systems are shit anyway.
 
I've noticed it as well, both the junior devs and the pajeet horde fucking suck at troubleshooting and rather than investigate something they immediately run to the first person that they know will fix the issue. They also have zero curiosity and no interest in figuring out how things work, basic networking shit is like fucking magic to these people.
I know a man who got a CS bachelors from a pretty good university, with many years of clinical IT experience due to his father’s work, that is literally is one of the most technologically incompetent individuals I have ever witnessed. In fact he’s a genuine autist who despises computers due to Ted K and only got the degree to appease his parents. I’ve had to hand hold him through so many computer issues, and I don’t even have a minor in computer science, I’m a fucking mechanical engineer. I’ve seen him break Windows installs in ways I didn’t even know was possible.

The second worst case is probably a CS undergrad I met in my last year at college. This guy talked a big game, acted like he’d been programming since he was in diapers, and confidently said the dumbest shit imaginable. I showed him a few of my beginner projects that I had made when I took the beginner programming classes, and he didn’t understand anything. I annotated nearly everything, using very legible functions (but in CamelCase because FuckYou), and he took one look and turned the laptop back to me. He didn’t even want to see my minified μPython implementation of Dijkstra’s Algorithm.

I feel that, ultimately, the biggest problem is we have lazy people taking easily passable degrees and getting into a field they aren’t genuinely capable of. The next is that there is a decent amount of people who are said to be “good with computers” by grandma, and so that inflates their egos. Finally, any and all potential that could have existed has been rotted away due to smartphones, and other technologies, abstracting away almost every aspect of computers.
 
Perhaps this is just a naturally biased observation of being a senior engineer, but a lot of these kids can't do shit. Potentially a serious skills issue in the next decade.
So much of the calculation and design work is automated now that the people working on things do not have the internal memory or error-checking to recognize bullshit. I see it in various industries now. The books of regulations get thicker and the people who understand what the reg is there for dwindle in number.
 
The AI bug report thing is going to get out of control damn fast, it’s automated pajeets and the Internet isn’t prepared. It’s eternal September all over again.
AI generated content is cancer to the already diseased internet. Neuromancer wasn't an instruction manual. (:_(
FREUD-DOOD[avatar].png
 
AI generated content is cancer to the already diseased internet. Neuromancer wasn't an instruction manual. (:_(
So true.
It isn't enough for Google to spit out ChatGPT bullshit everytime you look something up, now AI images pollute Google Images searches as well. It makes me glad that I stopped using Google around 2 years ago or so.
 
Anecdotal, but a lot of the junior devs I work with seem incapable of plain old "figuring things out". Every problem they come across, they send me the error, and ask how to fix it. When I probe into what they have done to troubleshoot... nothing. Bitch, I'm not your personal ChatGPT.
Being a seasoned veteran in software dev and having to manage juniors is like going back into the late 90's when you were a teen and had to explain computer stuff to your mom that involved nothing more than reading the fucking error message being presented to you, but now it's ivy league software developers earning five figures pulling this shit on you.

Also can we please disconnect india from the internet?
 
I want to agree, but I must point out that most programming these days seems to involve incomprehensible shit

This is not my experience, but it sounds like you work closer to the kernel than I.

So, there's an answer: Almost no one gives a fuck, almost everyone who does give a fuck is wrong, and the systems are shit anyway.

Respectfully and empathetically, you seem really burned out.

The issue is these people have never been taught to think, perhaps, if they can.

Isn't the point of college to teach us how to think and practice these skills? I remember long nights of flailing in my IDE during college, which taught me a lot. I didn't expect my professors to handhold me through every error, just the really tough bugs.

I acknowledge that one of the roles of a senior dev is to mentor juniors and grow their skills. My frustration comes from taking an hour to walk through a problem together, only for them to come back to me the next day with their next "prompt" with no troubleshooting.

AI is rapidly changing how the next generation thinks (or doesn't think). The AI security reports are a visible symptom of this. AI can be a powerful teaching tool if used correctly, but alas human laziness prevails.
 
This is not my experience, but it sounds like you work closer to the kernel than I.
That's generally my experience as well. And I work with K8s. Everything is hidden behind mass of leaky abstraction called "micro-services", that are insanely intertwined.
In many cases you cannot even reliably troubleshoot, as issues arise from combination of different cluster environments and some weird YAML setting in some of other micro-service, that you might not even have access to source.

How can Junior reliably track something like that? In many cases real question is who to ask, not how to troubleshoot it.
Add to that poor documentation (because code is one! (((lmao)))), lack of any meaningful on-boarding, constant turnover so people who should be in theory responsible for something are no longer there.
It's a shitshow.

Many of seniors just don't realize that you were there when technical decision were made, and industry standards solidified. Juniors don't have this luxury.
Things you take for granted are not so obvious.
Also google an error emitted by internal tool, good luck.
 
I have another question:
beside Godot, what are other good engines to use for 3D games? Possibly FOSS, because I know Unity and Unreal are Free*.
I know about O3DE, Castle Engine, I think also Panda3D, Hazel, and Armory3D (which also has a Blender integration). I'm probably missing some engine. I'd like to know your thoughts on these engines too, as in, are they as shit as Torque3D?
I've had to ask myself this question in recent years as having control over the licensing to my own games is important to me, so here's some suggestions:

Xenko (now Stride) is a lot like Unity and was the officially sponsored engine for Xbox and UWP at one point. It's a little unpolished and relies heavily on Microsoft tools but the engine itself is MIT-licensed and pretty portable.

Allegro is a good SDL alternative (so it's not a game engine but rather a tool to write your own engine with), it's really only for 2D games though as it lacks very many 3D functions aside from camera transforms. Very powerful though if you are okay with working at the lowest level in C or Zig. It's probably most well known today for powering Factorio, until it got replaced. Allegro supports up to D3D9 and OpenGL 1.1 so it's good for older computers. Since it's so low level you can combine it with SDL or DX/OGL/Vulkan to have it say, handle one part of your engine while the more complicated scene graph rendering is done with a more robust solution, realistically that's kind of stupid but if you really want to for some reason then it's possible.

OGRE and Panda3D are good open source 3D engines you can try on Linux, again a little lower level than something like Unity, and OGRE only supports up to DX11 / OpenGL 3 so no fancy raytracing or mesh shaders but they are both capable engines. Panda3D as you already mentioned is pretty promising as it's created and backed by Disney's amusement park and gaming division, and if you don't want to twiddle your dick around in C it comes with Python bindings out of the box.

Isn't the point of college to teach us how to think and practice these skills? I remember long nights of flailing in my IDE during college, which taught me a lot. I didn't expect my professors to handhold me through every error, just the really tough bugs.
We've lowered the barrier of entry to computers so much that the necessary skills have been reduced to "can you turn it on?" I'm pretty sure the ones educating us on these topics don't even know how it all works anymore. And how is their employer supposed to know? He's not the computer nerd.

The day we stopped teaching MINIX in universities was the start of the downhill spiral.
 
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AI generated content is cancer to the already diseased internet. Neuromancer wasn't an instruction manual. (:_(
At least AIs and LLMs aren't by themselves lunatics who only dedicated their lives towards babbling nonsense and subverting us up. Even in that format he's so punchable.

Isn't the point of college to teach us how to think and practice these skills? I remember long nights of flailing in my IDE during college, which taught me a lot. I didn't expect my professors to handhold me through every error, just the really tough bugs.

I acknowledge that one of the roles of a senior dev is to mentor juniors and grow their skills. My frustration comes from taking an hour to walk through a problem together, only for them to come back to me the next day with their next "prompt" with no troubleshooting.

AI is rapidly changing how the next generation thinks (or doesn't think). The AI security reports are a visible symptom of this. AI can be a powerful teaching tool if used correctly, but alas human laziness prevails.
All of the programming problems I've faced so far were solved due to my own effort. But I have to say, I've dealt with really hard cookies to chew. I can take hours, weeks or even months trying to get things going. I've found the solution of these mostly on my own with the help of the Internet. For instance, I'm trying to find a way on how to synchronize the input of a file or a socket that has to be done sequentially with output threads that run in parallel, all of that with a preexisting framework. These kind of things aren't fixable by being handheld by professors, even less by a chat bot. I mean, I can get a bit of guidance but I have to do the heavy lifting myself if I want to see results. Not that this is the best way of working out there but at least I try to do a genuine effort.

That we have so called devs who overrely on chat bots speaks loudly about the lack of a culture of effort. Even worse is this sudden appearance of self proclaimed pundits who put absolutely from their side just to show off or even profit. I concord that pajeets have to be barred from technology, them with their inflated egos are just a drain of our time.
 
At least AIs and LLMs aren't by themselves lunatics who only dedicated their lives towards babbling nonsense and subverting us up. Even in that format he's so punchable.
yeah those would be the ai-devs and fandom.

Speaking of, Itch.io was briefly closed due to these annoying AI-Powered copyright enforcer companies. The jokes write themselves.
 
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