Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[East_Clintwood]

You guys remember right at the start of the war when the West imposed a bunch of sanctions, including on airline shit, and in response the Russians said they were gonna build their own planes with durak and dedovschina blackjack and hookers? Well we have an update on how that's going: https://kyivindependent.com/russia-airliners-bbc/

Russia's United Aircraft Corporation managed to build only seven of the 108 passenger planes it planned to produce since 2022, the BBC reported on Dec. 12, underscoring the dire state of Russia's plane manufacturing sector.

The Russian aviation and aircraft manufacturing industries were heavily hit by the Western sanctions — imposed in response to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine — due to reliance on foreign components to build and maintain planes.

Russia sought to pivot toward domestic production. Its Comprehensive Program for the Development of the Air Transport Industry until 2030 envisioned producing 1,032 passenger aircraft between 2022 and the end of the decade.

This included 14 planes in 2022, 25 in 2023, and 69 this year. This plan was revised and postponed almost immediately due to lack of supplies, the BBC writes.

The United Aircraft Corporation, part of the state-owned conglomerate Rostec, built only seven SuperJet 100 airliners using pre-2022 stocks, the outlet reported, citing cross-checked data from unofficial statistics, aggregators, and the media. Russian producers also built two experimental planes for testing: the Il-96-400M and Il-114.

An undisclosed industry source told the BBC that the plan was not taken seriously within the aviation sector and served only to "calm the government's nerves."

The mounting crisis affects not only aircraft producers but also airline companies.

The Izvestia newspaper reported on Nov. 13 that about 30 Russian airlines, accounting for 26% of domestic passenger traffic, may go bankrupt in 2025. Only major airlines, including Aeroflot, Ural Airlines, and S7 Airlines, were able to buy back leased aircraft with funds from the National Welfare Fund.

Womp Womp.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

blah blah blah retard faggot rambling

You're a retarded faggot who hates the West.

 

[Ghostse]

Is there a basis for this? WRT Ukraine Biden seems to do his outmost to give Trump the best possible position.

There is historical precedent.
Obama was also a frothing retarded bitchmade who gave $400 million to Iran when he was on his way out. That money DEFINITELY saw effect in Iran-sponsored middle east unrest in the first part of Trump's term. There were a couple cases of Obama's state department where someone got TDS and deliberately soured relations on their way out the door. Mainly Obama was shell shocked and a little pissy bitch because Trump was coming in to dismantle his precious legacy; instead of focusing on things they could agree with he spent all the transition time trying to save his pet projects.
But the big one was Afghanistan.

tl;dr Trump negotiated a US withdraw from combat operations in Afghanistan. ("Leaving the country" but exactly leaving the country) Biden's State Department deliberately fucked around, drug their heels, and blew through the timeline to deny Trump a geopolitical win and by exceeding the timeline with nothing happening paint Trump as limp-wrist who got played by the toothless Taliban. And then.... well, we all saw what happened.

Nothing like that seems to happening now, admittedly. Biden seems to have gone into full "Fuck the Dems; Trump stomping them is hilarious" mode after being forced to step down for a loser. Biden also doesn't seem to care about his legacy because I think a lot of his "legacy" was related to trannies and that stuff wasn't his idea. Biden's State Department also seems to have woken up and gotten more savy than Obama's in the later half; I think Afghanistan was an overdue wakeup. And if that wasn't, Russia invading Ukraine was.

 

[No. 7 cat]

US President-elect Donald Trump stated at a meeting in Paris on 7 December that Europe would have to shoulder the primary burden of supporting Ukraine and managing a future ceasefire

Source: European Pravda, citing The Wall Street Journal

Details: Sources close to the WSJ said that during discussions with Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Emmanuel Macron, Trump reportedly said that he does not support Ukraine’s NATO membership but wants to see a "strong, well-armed Ukraine" following any cessation of hostilities.

The US president-elect added that Europe should take the lead in protecting and supporting Ukraine. He advocated for European troops to oversee a ceasefire in Ukraine while ruling out the presence of US forces in the country, the article writes.....

WSJ via Ukrainska Pravda: Trump favors Euro troops in Ukraine to oversee ceasefire / original (not sure archive.org is working too well right now)

An American who spent seven months in a Syrian prison after crossing into the country on foot on a Christian pilgrimage has been found.

Travis Timmerman, who was found in the town of Dhiyabiya, says he was one of thousands of people released from Syrian prisons after rebel groups ousted the brutal regime of Bashar al-Assad last weekend.

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Speaking with CBS, Mr Timmerman revealed that he was freed by two men with AK-47s on Monday, after being detained when he entered Syria for “spiritual purposes”. He told Al Arabiya TV network that he crossed into Syria on foot from the eastern Lebanese town of Zahlé......

Travis Timmerman: American who travelled to Syria on Christian pilgrimage freed from Assad jail / original (archive.org seems a bit iffy right now)

If money spent helping war refugees counts as money spent because Russia invaded Ukraine, then Europe is outspending the United States on Ukraine right now about three to one.

by Stefan Korshak | December 12, 2024, 6:02 pm

Ukraine’s 37th Marine Brigade. Source: "X" Ukrainian Ministry of Defense


The collective value of Euros, Polish zlotys, British pounds sterling and other European taxpayer money spent on Ukraine’s defense against Russian invasion substantially outweighs greenbacks forked over by the United States. And if the cost of helping millions of Ukrainian war refugees is taken into account, the Ukrainian support gap is massive and not in America’s favor, newly released data from a German research group said.....
A new study of foreign assistance to Ukraine published by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy on Dec. 5 found that since the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 the value of allocated American military assistance to date, to Ukraine, is equivalent to $63 billion. Total US assistance to Ukraine including financial aid and support to refugees over that time period ending in October 2024 was $83 billion. Other states’ combined allocated military assistance to Ukraine was $58 billion over the same period, about 8% less than the US’s, and total European assistance to Ukraine exclusive of refugee support was $131 billion, more than the US contribution by a bit more than a third, the report said.

Europe, Not the US, Is Ukraine’s Most Important Source of Support by a Substantial Margin / original (archive possibly not working)

This should come with an optimistic rainbow. Shelter to refugees is of some help, but it has also resulted in a good many Ukrainian men evading their duty to their country. Ukraine needs soldiers and weapons, but it also simply needs people to stick around to keep public services, industry and commerce working. Even working in Ukraine is of more help than living in Germany or Belgium. Efforts have been made, notably in Poland to encourage military recruitment among Ukrainians there. Still the scale of military aid is good given Europe's defense industries were run down by Bill Clinton's fake and gay post Cold War peace dividend, false economy on stilts.

Weird smelly, pajeet grifter, Kash Patel shockingly a nominee for FBI Director, really doesn't Ukraine. However, compared to his hatred of toilets, Kash adores Ukraine (it's a certainty). I suppose Kash is like Tulsi a sort of freak designed to shock Senators into immediately confirmed someone they wouldn't like, but who seems comparatively normal. His words are shill misinfo, a pile of smelly poo.

 

[Ghostse]

You guys remember right at the start of the war when the West imposed a bunch of sanctions, including on airline shit, and in response the Russians said they were gonna build their own planes with durak and dedovschina blackjack and hookers? Well we have an update on how that's going: https://kyivindependent.com/russia-airliners-bbc/

managed to build only seven of the 108 passenger planes it planned to produce since 2022 [...] using pre-2022 stocks

Goddamn son. There is failing and then there is level of utter shit show. They haven't event built 7 of 108 planes, they only FINISHED 7 planes they started in 2022.


"Russia sought to pivot toward domestic production. Its Comprehensive Program for the Development of the Air Transport Industry until 2030 envisioned producing 1,032 passenger aircraft between 2022 and the end of the decade. [ ...] the plan was not taken seriously within the aviation sector and served only to "calm the government's nerves.""

And yet Vatniggers continue to consume Russian Government propaganda with zero gag reflex.

 

[Clownish]

I could use more peppy Slavic earworms in my life. Is this an established group, or a lot of individual singers mashed together into one sarcastic retort? Where can I learn more?

Masha Kondratenko is the singer. She is really popular with many hit songs. The video before is from a Ukrainian Saturday Night Live type of show with skits and stuff. (Edit: The music video would not load on KF for some reason.)

Azov/3rd Assault also just released an album called ЕПОХА created by popular Ukrainian bands and they hosted a concert in Kyiv last week. There are 8 new songs with custom music videos on Youtube. Some of the bands like ДК Енергетик are in the new Stalker 2 video game.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Ukraine releases list of vessels in the Russian shadow-fleet:
Source / Archive

The War & Sanctions portal reveals a dossier on 238 “figureheads” of the shadow fleet of old oil tankers, which provides multi-billion dollar revenues to aggressors and threatens global environmental security.

Fossil fuel exports are a key source of funding for building up the military power of aggressors and fueling “bloody” regimes. In 2023, Russia earned $188 billion from oil exports, Iran – almost $53 billion. Revenues from oil sales provide authoritarian actors with resources to implement nuclear programs, develop modern drones and missiles, provide ongoing financial and material support for the terrorist activities of their regional proxies, and pay for the services of transnational crime networks.

The shadow fleet consists of over a thousand mostly outdated, poorly maintained vessels without proper insurance, with "confused" ownership and management structures, located in "friendly" jurisdictions, under "convenient" flags, and has a total deadweight of over 100 million tons (approximately 17% of the world's oil tanker fleet). Such vessels resort to deceptive tactics at sea to hide the origin of cargoes, threaten "environmental chaos" and billions in losses to coastal countries due to the increasing risk of disasters when passing through busy narrow international shipping lanes, refusing pilotage services. Since February 2022, more than 50 incidents involving shadow tankers have already been recorded from the Denmark Straits to Malaysia.

Against the backdrop of a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia has lost traditional buyers of seaborne oil in the EU, has been subject to Western restrictions on its energy sector, including the largest Russian state shipping company serving the oil interests of the largest oil and gas companies and traders in Russia, PJSC Sovcomflot. However, it has found new ones in Asia - mainly in India and China, and has begun to expand its own shadow fleet at the expense of outdated tankers, deprived of “connections” with the G7+ countries, which can transport oil in violation of the price ceiling. In addition, the Russian Federation uses the services of the “Iranian ghost armada”. Since 2022, Russia has spent about $10 billion on creating its own shadow fleet.

The War & Sanctions portal reveals the secrets of the shadow tanker fleet and launches the world's only dataset with facts and evidence of shadow activities. The list includes 238 (and this is just the beginning) shadow tankers that help Russia and Iran deliver sanctioned oil mainly to their Asian customers - China and India. These tankers violate the G7+ oil embargo and transport Russian oil from Russian ports in the Baltic and Black Seas to EU countries, including through raid transshipment and STS hubs in the Black and Mediterranean Seas near European countries. In addition, they are involved in violating price ceilings and other restrictions on Russian oil. Among them are vessels classified by the international public organization Greenpeace as part of the shadow fleet of tankers that transport Russian oil around the world via the Baltic Sea, threatening its ecosystems and environment, and those that, according to the American human rights group United Against Nuclear Iran (UANI), have been repurposed from transporting Iranian to Russian oil.

The uniqueness of the portal section also lies in the ability to sort tankers by main groups - shadow fleet operators who appeared out of nowhere in 2022-2023, quickly assembled a fleet of outdated vessels such as Arfamax, Suezmax, etc., and played a key role in ensuring the transportation of Russian oil in the interests of the Kremlin.

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The first two pages:


Portal/ tool:
Archive

 

[Ghostse]

Ukraine releases list of vessels in the Russian shadow-fleet:

Be a real shame if these ships started having accidents.

Imagine if we had actual journalists that would be able to use this info to investigate and track these ships and ask some government reps & corpo-stooges some real hard questions when they're shown taking delivery of blockade-runner oil.

View attachment 6741159

Oh look, someone translated this super popular Ukrainian pop song.
I wonder what they were singing about...
Oh, it's about Total Zigger and Mongol Death.

"Lend-lease seems to be missing here"
God. Damn.

 

[Frederica Bernkastel]

"Lend-lease seems to be missing here"

We gave them so much more than Lend Lease too. People love to forget in the 1920s-1930s the US sent plenty of engineers to the USSR to rebuilt their shit hole country. Their industrialization would have not been possible without our help. The Koch family, which was building their oil refineries, famously fled Soviet Russia after Stalin started purging their associates left and right.

 

[Snekposter]

Biden's State Department also seems to have woken up and gotten more savy than Obama's in the later half; I think Afghanistan was an overdue wakeup. And if that wasn't, Russia invading Ukraine was.

There's also the fact that in 2025 unlike in 2017 Trump is absolutely going to clean house, and if the State Department tried to fuck him he'd find a way to send people overseas to such prestigious posts as Mongolia and Lesotho.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

I don't know whether it was posted here, but a week ago or so Ukrainians assassinated a Russian war criminal who had killed a large number of Ukrainian POWs. Another war criminal (attacks on civilians) working for the Russian Navy was killed previously as well, as well as yet another war criminal (attacks on civilians) working for the VKS. If there's one thing there's no shortage of in Russia, it's war criminals.

I remember discussing incursion in Kursk likely allowing Ukrainian operatives to infiltrate Russia in order to pull stuff like this.
Needless to say, they're doing god's work. It's clear these people will probably never be brought to justice otherwise, and they deserve nothing less than this.

 

[Pedophobe]

Going after uniformed war criminals is one thing but assassinating a civilian drone engineer is some Israel-grade bullshit.

 

[BradeRunna]

I think that so far the Red Army's most formidable opponent has been the Red Army. Still, it makes the European powers look all the more pathetic when they can't drag Ukraine across the finish line against such a bottom-tier opponent.

Not sure if Russia could've realistically matched the strength of the hypothetical properly maintained western armies.

It's not that simple. The West loaded Ukraine up with Western style training and weapons. But the one thing they didn't give them was the air power that plays an important part in Western military campaigns. That's why the Ukrainian offensive failed so badly last year. The Ukrainians lack the air force needed to provide their army with air cover. I'm not saying they should have given them the planes needed to do this. But that's one of the reasons why the Ukrainians haven't been able to push the Russians out.

It's also because the West doesn't want to escalate things with Russia. I imagine it's more because they don't want to completely defeat the Russians and destabilize the country. They just want to weaken Russia. Not totally defeat them. Ukraine just happens to be a pawn in the proxy war game. There was most likely never any intention to totally defeat Russia. Just to get Russia caught in another bear trap like Afghanistan.

 

[-Jack-]

How do shadow fleets work? Are the cargo vessels registered with a different country? or are they owned by a different country? if either one of these, does the government of that country know they are doing this?

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

How do shadow fleets work? Are the cargo vessels registered with a different country?

Yes. They are sailing under a flag of convenience. Panama, belize, malta, Liberia etc.

if either one of these, does the government of that country know they are doing this?

They don't care.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Yes. They are sailing under a flag of convenience. Panama, belize, malta, Liberia etc.

Flags of convenience are only part of it (especially when you consider how much shipping is registered under convenience flags to avoid employment and safety regulations). They also falsify their manifests and schedules, and play fuck-fuck games with insurers. They'll even fake transponder IDs these days.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Weird smelly, pajeet grifter, Kash Patel shockingly a nominee for FBI Director, really doesn't Ukraine. However, compared to his hatred of toilets, Kash adores Ukraine (it's a certainty). I suppose Kash is like Tulsi a sort of freak designed to shock Senators into immediately confirmed someone they wouldn't like, but who seems comparatively normal. His words are shill misinfo, a pile of smelly poo.

Whenever someone peddles that garbage about no oversight for Ukraine aid, ask them what specifically isn't covered by this (and correct them about how much actual money is sent, since these people say building factories in the continental United States is somehow Ukrainian oligarchs buying mansions).

https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

It's not that simple. The West loaded Ukraine up with Western style training and weapons. But the one thing they didn't give them was the air power that plays an important part in Western military campaigns.
That's why the Ukrainian offensive failed so badly last year. The Ukrainians lack the air force needed to provide their army with air cover.

The west didn't send no where near the amount of mine clearing equipment needed to clear a path. In addition to the Russians laying a few orders of magnitude more mines per grid area beyond what was in the Soviet Union and NATO handbooks. Nor did West send enough SPGs, MLRS, and radar to find and destroyed the defenses overwatching the minefields and fortifications.

Couple with Ukrainian military being in the process of reorganization to something applicable to the war needs. As the "peacetime" and COIN organization chart the West is using have been to be extremely lacking to actual conventional war.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Going after uniformed war criminals is one thing but assassinating a civilian drone engineer is some Israel-grade bullshit.

If you are refering to the assassinated Mikhail Shatsky, he was likely involved in modernizing cruise missiles, as well as developing military-grade drones for the Russian military, as an employee of Russian-state owned Rosatom:

Actors affiliated with Ukraine’s Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) likely assassinated the Deputy General Designer and Functional Software Department Head of the Russian Rosatom-owned “Mars” design bureau Mikhail Shatsky in Russia on December 12. GUR sources told Ukrainian media outlet Suspilne that GUR actors may have been involved in the murder of Shatsky in Kotelniki, Moscow Oblast.[30] GUR sources alleged that Shatsky was working to modernize Russian Kh-59 cruise missiles into Kh-69 missiles and implementing artificial intelligence (AI) technology into Russian drones and other Russian military aerospace systems. ISW cannot confirm these reports.

He was just as much of a legit wartime target for an assassination as an uniformed war criminal is or an oil refinery is for a droning.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Going after uniformed war criminals is one thing but assassinating a civilian drone engineer is some Israel-grade bullshit.

IMO if you create weapons for a downright comically evil regime, you deserve whatever is coming to you. It's the moral equivalent of selling weapons to violent criminals, knowing that they will be used to murder innocents.

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The Russian MoD has openly stated that they attack Ukrainian civilian infrastructure in response to Ukrainian attacks on a Russian military installation.​

️ On December 11, 2024, a missile strike was launched from the territory of Ukraine using six American-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles at a military airfield near the city of Taganrog.

In response to the use of American long-range weapons, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation launched a massive strike with high-precision long-range air and sea-based weapons and strike unmanned aerial vehicles against critical fuel and energy infrastructure facilities in Ukraine that support the operation of the military-industrial complex.

link
There is no ambiguity. Anyone who works for the Russian military is enabling crimes. They openly admit to that on their own channels. The more significant the position in military industry, the more blame, but there are no innocents.

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It is reported that an assassination attempt on the top manager of the Mechanical Engineering Design Bureau, Gennady Devyatov, has been prevented.

According to the Mash publication, the contract killing of Devyatov was prevented by FSB officers yesterday, December 12. The Ukrainian special services found the perpetrators via a messenger, where they received coordinates with explosives that were to be planted under the top manager's car in Moscow.

The Mechanical Engineering Design Bureau (KB Mashinostroeniya) is engaged in the development of a wide range of missiles, including the Iskander OTRK, Ataka ATGM, Verba MANPADS, Khrizantema ATGM, and others.

According to the publication, those detained are 21-year-old Shandro Shishkov from Nizhny Tagil (previously convicted of robbery) and 23-year-old Denis Kaiser from Sverdlovsk Oblast.

Yesterday, Ukrainian channels reported the murder of Mikhail Shatsky, deputy general designer of the Mars Design Bureau, in the Moscow region. Nothing was officially reported about this.

At the moment, the publication about the assassination attempt on Gennady Devyatov has been deleted . It is unknown why Mash deleted it - either it turned out to be untrue, or "they got a knock from above."

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Ruswine examining Ukrainian drone lying in ambush:​

Spoiler

I don't actually know whether these are Ukrainian or Russian pigs, but since they are intelligent enough to avoid triggering the explosion, I am confident that they are not Russian military.
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A Russian soldier tried to fight off a Ukrainian quadcopter with machine gun fire, but accidentally shot himself in the head.

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When I was in elementary school, they told us not to run while holding scissors, let alone rifles

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One of the tactics that Russian infantrymen are taught: When a drone FPV approaches, Russians are taught to freeze in place or pretend to be dead. In the hope that through the cheap camera installed on the drone and interference and other factors the drone operator simply will not notice the Russian. Video by the 68th Brigade of Ukraine.

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Interception of a cruise missile this morning.​

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Spoiler: full video

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