Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[White Slaad]

Hexcrawl Sperging

Do the teleporters make minutes, hours, or days' worth of difference for travel time? If it's days, then that's a lot of time to leave a dungeon unattended for new monsters to restock and intelligent enemies to prepare for the next attack. But at the same time, I can understand not wanting to stall out a dungeon so it ends up giving too much EXP and taking too much time. If encounters aren't on your side, then all there is to save is time, so unless you make time a big factor in adventures it does wind up being flavour text.

If you're going to keep them there, my advice would be give them a hefty activation cost. They are using old ancient magic and only have a couple charges left in them, and recharging them is incredibly expensive.

But if he puts a tax on the teleporters, then the players will just walk instead, because with how it is right now there's virtually no difference gameplay-wise.

 

[Broadside]

It's set during peace time. Mages aren't hated or feared. There's some magi-tech

This sounds awful lmao. The gnoll knowledge broker is a cool concept however.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

Reminder that not only is it generally agreed upon, Dark Sun was the best thing to happen in 4E. Dark Sun was the best-selling and popular setting that had the Dark Sun treatment. If WOTC ever brings back the Dark Sun setting for 5.5E. You know they are desperate and Hasbro is pissed. Especially after Greyhawk was too edgy for 5E babies.

 

[The Ugly One]

Wow, really can't wait to see what Dark Sun is like when there's no racism, no slavery, no rape, no evil, and girlbosses everywhere. Maybe they'll give them side-shaves to be super edgy.

 

[White Slaad]

Especially after Greyhawk was too edgy for 5E babies.

Making 5.5's main setting Greyhawk instead of Forgotten Realms is baffling on all levels. Wokies don't like it because it's a "the villain is a swarthy wizard from the East and his monstrous minions"-style fantasy setting. Grognards who would be enticed by Greyhawk won't like it because it's 5.5e. Meanwhile, 5.0 has been publishing adventure modules that almost exclusively take place in the Forgotten Realms, a movie that takes place in the Forgotten Realms was made, and Baldur's Gate 3 which has been a smash hit. Regardless of whether or not you like the setting, interest in FR is at an all-time high. The only reason I can think of WotC touching Greyhawk or Dark Sun is to "gentrify" them so that they aren't seen as problematic by X/Redditors. Dark Sun is pretty radical, you can tell how well-crafted it is just by how easily ideas for adventures and characters fill your head at the mere mention of its name. I didn't read the Planescape setting book so I don't know what their bastardization track record is, but Radiant Citadel and the Book of Many Things set the bar low for anything original they make.

 

[Judge Dredd]

This sounds awful lmao.

Thanks. I can expand on it a bit.

Unless the war is an important element of the story, then it's useless filler that can result in plot holes. Make it peace time, and that way factions can pursue other, less important interests. It also opens non-war related story hooks.

Being afraid of wizards made sense when a singe level 1 charm spell could turn someone into a lackey for life. In modern DnD, it makes someone more amicable for an hour, and they know you've done it after the fact. Also, do you mean to tell me that someone with 18 int is too stupid to shave his beard and take off his pointy hat?

The gnoll knowledge broker is a cool concept however.

Thanks. It works well for a number of reasons. Especially for getting an open world campaign unstuck, and the players have to choose to use his services.

Do the teleporters make minutes, hours, or days' worth of difference for travel time? If it's days, then that's a lot of time to leave a dungeon unattended for new monsters to restock and intelligent enemies to prepare for the next attack. But at the same time, I can understand not wanting to stall out a dungeon so it ends up giving too much EXP and taking too much time. If encounters aren't on your side, then all there is to save is time, so unless you make time a big factor in adventures it does wind up being flavour text.

I'll clarify the issue. I'm trying to keep travel, especially overland travel, fun, meaningful, and consistent, because so far it's not.


Abomination Vaults (my current campaign) doesn't have overland travel, but it is a megadungeon. It has a teleporter hidden on every floor, as well as other shortcuts. I started running into travel problems when PCs were so high level none of the enemies on the higher floors could even touch them. Travel became a boring real-time sink, so I truncated it and truncated it until now I just skip to the most recent teleporter they unlocked and go from there, since they their MO is >shortcut to high floor with an unlocked teleporter >teleport to lowest portal.

A few old/old style modules like Valley of the Manticore, Castle Silveraxe, Barrowmaze, and Keep on the Boarderlands all have the same general format. I'll use Keep since it's well known. You have the keep which is safe. You have the road to the caves. There isn't much that's a threat on the roads, and PCs will only leave the road when there's reason to do so. The PCs make this trip twice every session. After a few levels d4 goblins isn't going to do shit.

If the shortcut involves going through a dungeon that repopulates every week, do I have fight the same low level encounters over and over again?

I assumed I was messing up, but it sounds like wilderness survival and overland travel has never been "fun", so maybe I'm doing it right after all.


A seperate, but related issue is handling 6 mile hexes, because modules differ. Sometimes there's an landmark like a statue or fountain, which is a pretty small detail to find in a 6 mile area. Other times there are multiple towns and factions and pathways and encounters all within a single hex. I have no idea of how to handle it consistently. Or do I go meta and make it clear these dense hexes are important and the rest is just filler?

 

[Ghostse]

A few old/old style modules like Valley of the Manticore, Castle Silveraxe, Barrowmaze, and Keep on the Boarderlands all have the same general format. I'll use Keep since it's well known. You have the keep which is safe. You have the road to the caves. There isn't much that's a threat on the roads, and PCs will only leave the road when there's reason to do so. The PCs make this trip twice every session. After a few levels d4 goblins isn't going to do shit.

If the shortcut involves going through a dungeon that repopulates every week, do I have fight the same low level encounters over and over again?

I assumed I was messing up, but it sounds like wilderness survival and overland travel has never been "fun", so maybe I'm doing it right after all.


A seperate, but related issue is handling 6 mile hexes, because modules differ. Sometimes there's an landmark like a statue or fountain, which is a pretty small detail to find in a 6 mile area. Other times there are multiple towns and factions and pathways and encounters all within a single hex. I have no idea of how to handle it consistently. Or do I go meta and make it clear these dense hexes are important and the rest is just filler?

This depends on system, but in anything 3e+ you are right: the goblins won't do anything but be annoying. Especially 4e which is just "Party arrives at the encounter. Who cares how they got there, you some sort of grog?".

For 1e/2e, there is a chance someone gets whacked good enough it affects their combat readiness. So if the encounter is there, its there.

For 3.5/5 I would consider what was happening and possibly change enemy behavior. If patrols stop coming back, the goblins are going to increase patrol size. IF they start realizing who's been doing stuff, they might try to set up ambushes. If its human bandits, I'd start giving the party bonus to intimidation.

For 1e/2e the hope is the party gets tired of the grind and I'd ask them "What are you going do about it?"; maybe they make a donation to the local militia commander and now some lvl 1 peasants are keeping the roads safe. Maybe they divert and take time to go hunt down the bandit leader, murder him, and take charge of the bandits ("sweet we needed a bunch of hirelings for trap detection anyway"). Or maybe they hire some sell-swords to scout ahead and keep the roads clear, so they lose some gold but don't have to deal with random encounters.
Or just as likely they simply scare off whatever forces they encounter becasue word would eventually get around. Or they'd just hold up their bundle of severed heads and ask if the goblin leader wants to join it.

another thing I will do for 4e (and in theory 5e but I've never had a chance to try it out) is I'll take a page from other combat simplifiers and turn time-wasting random chart battles into opposed D6 rolls. I'll have the party roll a D6 (usually with advantage; if its so piddly we're going to full abstraction, they probably are strong enough they'd get advantage) and the enemies roll a d6. If the Party wins, they get some small loot. If they lose, however much they lost by they lose that many healing surges from the party total. (And if the party wins by a lot, I'll do something like "that encounter rolls at -1" or maybe say they're too whupped to challenge the party for a time).
So for 5e you just knock off healing dice.


I would once again for your megadungeon - though I doubt it'll change much - I'd change your teleports to shortcuts. A secret staircase, an airshaft someone broke into, a sewer duct. Something that will take time and effort to transverse, but also hidden enough you can just say "It takes you 8 hours but you are back to where you were".
But it also lets you throw a sleepy/complacent party curveballs. Maybe the next time the party tries it, turns out the next floor boss sent some troopers to set an ambush. Or maybe the local Kobolds wait for the party to be climbing down a 100ft rope, then appear at the top with a knife and demand 1000gp; should have posted some guards.

 

[White Slaad]

I'll clarify the issue. I'm trying to keep travel, especially overland travel, fun, meaningful, and consistent, because so far it's not.

My image of a megadungeon resembles the Diablo PC games, which involve a very simple town-dungeon rhythm that lets the player bounce back and forth very quickly. If there's no grind, then I say quickly take them to where the grind is.

As for overland travel, a good example of a hexcrawl can be found in the Isle of Dread: in a good hexcrawl players are exploring a frontier and continually pushing new horizons rather than bussing back and forth all the time (though there is supposed to be a hub). The best hexcrawls I've played in have involved finding a location as a main goal, rather than just walking down a road. The Keep on the Borderlands doesn't make for a good hexcrawl, since only the titular Keep and Caves of Chaos are locations with any meat to them.

 

[Quintus]

View attachment 6755913View attachment 6755900
Reminder that not only is it generally agreed upon, Dark Sun was the best thing to happen in 4E. Dark Sun was the best-selling and popular setting that had the Dark Sun treatment. If WOTC ever brings back the Dark Sun setting for 5.5E. You know they are desperate and Hasbro is pissed. Especially after Greyhawk was too edgy for 5E babies.

They're going to slaughter my boy.... Please Elon buy WOTC before they slaughter my boy.

 

[Broadside]

Unless the war is an important element of the story, then it's useless filler that can result in plot holes. Make it peace time, and that way factions can pursue other, less important interests. It also opens non-war related story hooks.

I was being semi-serious (mainly cos I can't abide magitech for the most part); but you actually make a good point here, especially if you're someone like me who prefers high-intrigue, cognitive-focused quests over Stop The Evil Guy any day

 

[AnOminous]

A crippling inability to differentiate reality from fiction is the true silver bullet of the generic leftist.

And they complain about them being considered "ontologically evil" when unlike nearly anything in actual reality, they indeed were deliberately created specifically for the purpose of being evil. That's literally their point.

5E is a good system.

The SJW and woke culture around it sucks.

Unfortunately, with a game that is essentially a social game, if the "society" surrounding it is shit, it's also shit.

That said, short of a game being unplayably arcane, I generally prefer a game to hit as many of the possible mechanics as possible rather than be "streamlined." That's probably some grognard shit but it's a lot easier to ditch a mechanic I don't need than craft my own out of thin air.

 

[The Ugly One]

Unfortunately, with a game that is essentially a social game, if the "society" surrounding it is shit, it's also shit.

The only "society" at a game table with you should be people that you, personally like.

 

[ZMOT]

The only "society" at a game table with you should be people that you, personally like.

that the best case, but more often than not you're stuck with you can get, otherwise there's no game at all. and expecting everyone to have at least some level of social competency in this kinda hobby is... well..

Outside of rolling to find food, making camp, and securing the camp i guess there isnt much.

What is more interesting is making the party make caches and such especially on the way home with treasure if youre giving them a good amount of gp. You can setup a whole other adventure when they track down thieves

imo just like intrigue people need to be into the exploration part of revealing the map one (or two) hex at a time. if it's just going from A to B all it does is add more tedium than simply rolling on a travel event table to see if "X happens".

anyone looking for some material might wanna check out forbidden lands too (or one ring), independent of the system itself.

 

[Ghostse]

That said, short of a game being unplayably arcane, I generally prefer a game to hit as many of the possible mechanics as possible rather than be "streamlined." That's probably some grognard shit but it's a lot easier to ditch a mechanic I don't need than craft my own out of thin air.

I'm generally with you and I have to admit B/X being "streamlined" works for me because there are 50 years of nerds also having encountering a thing I want to simulate/model for me, making soemthing to do so, and me being to easily reference and plug that in. I mean hell AD&D alone covers most of the stuff you'd want.

5e does a lot of stuff I like and I steal a lot from the general rules, but as a game it just doesn't click. I think part of it is the magic system being too cumbersome and vague. And like 4e (And 3.5 to a smaller degree), everything is a tank of HP to try to average out the effects of damage rolls, but unlike 4e there isn't a 'shut the fuck up and play' mindset.

 

[The Ugly One]

that the best case, but more often than not you're stuck with you can get, otherwise there's no game at all.

So don't play. Your life is too valuable to waste it socializing with people you hate. I'd rather watch sports with people I like than play D&D with people I hate. But in 10-15 years of playing, I've never had trouble finding decent people to game with, and I've never lived in a red area.

 

[AnOminous]

The only "society" at a game table with you should be people that you, personally like.

That's why I'd only play something that didn't attract people I hate like flies on shit. Play grognard games and you won't have to worry about zoomers and troons.

But in 10-15 years of playing, I've never had trouble finding decent people to game with, and I've never lived in a red area.

At this point, most people my age don't play any more anyway. So every couple years I'll be in a one shot mostly for old time's sake. Most of us are pretty geographically scattered.

 

[The Ugly One]

That's why I'd only play something that didn't attract people I hate like flies on shit. Play grognard games and you won't have to worry about zoomers and troons.

At this point, most people my age don't play any more anyway. So every couple years I'll be in a one shot mostly for old time's sake. Most of us are pretty geographically scattered.

Half my table is in their 50s.

 

[Carmen The Aids Rabbit]

The only "society" at a game table with you should be people that you, personally like.

Never played but have a bud that tried to get me into it a few times.
Recently nigga came on to me squealing about how his bard fucked a kobold queen. Not longer sure I wanna be at a table with him. Shit not even sure I wanna play the damn thing. That shit really caught me off guard, tho I really shouldn't be surprised at this point

 

[Henri Barbusse]

So don't play. Your life is too valuable to waste it socializing with people you hate. I'd rather watch sports with people I like than play D&D with people I hate. But in 10-15 years of playing, I've never had trouble finding decent people to game with, and I've never lived in a red area.

No game is better than bad game is a lesson people can only learn if they have a bad experience. And even then, there's the temptation of "bad game of something niche I really wanted to play".

 

[ZMOT]

No game is better than bad game is a lesson people can only learn if they have a bad experience. And even then, there's the temptation of "bad game of something niche I really wanted to play".

good/bad isn't binary tho, it's a spectrum.