Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

Speaking of Balors, it reminds me of my attempt to use one against a high level party. Warlock casted maddening darkness, sorcerer casted force cage. Balors teleport specifies a space it can see. They proceeded to tee off on his minions and prep for an execution.

It was around then I decided I’d avoid leveling players beyond twelfth level.
 
Speaking of Balors, it reminds me of my attempt to use one against a high level party. Warlock casted maddening darkness, sorcerer casted force cage. Balors teleport specifies a space it can see. They proceeded to tee off on his minions and prep for an execution.

It was around then I decided I’d avoid leveling players beyond twelfth level.
don't hate on them for their resourcefulness
i have to applaud them on that
 
With ACKS, Alex Macris put some real thought into how social standing and economy should connect on a deeper level to dungeon bashing and leveling up, and it really works. You couldn't really graft it onto 5e or PF. You'd have to completely redo all the pricing, treasure guidelines, XP tables, and so on. And on the flip side, if you take it out of ACKS, you'll break it.
ACKS is still on my 'look into' list so specking in generalities
This often is a double edged sword because too tightly integrated of systems means that A) its hard to customize and B) its hard to steal from.
Also C) sometimes there is a subsystem that perfectly massages one of the creator's particular autismic brain folds but everyone at the table utterly loathes and you can't just excise or glaze over it.
 
Speaking of Balors, it reminds me of my attempt to use one against a high level party. Warlock casted maddening darkness, sorcerer casted force cage. Balors teleport specifies a space it can see. They proceeded to tee off on his minions and prep for an execution.
Read yo statblocks, my nigga.
He could see to the same range as his teleport.
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I've heard good things about ACKS, but haven't looked into it too deeply.

Does anyone have any experience with Braunstein-style play, or any good resources on it they've found?
 
Speaking of Balors, it reminds me of my attempt to use one against a high level party. Warlock casted maddening darkness, sorcerer casted force cage. Balors teleport specifies a space it can see. They proceeded to tee off on his minions and prep for an execution.

It was around then I decided I’d avoid leveling players beyond twelfth level.
A CR 19 monster was beaten by a 7th and 8th-level spell? The minions failed to break concentration? Seems to be working as intended.
 
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Read yo statblocks, my nigga.
He could see to the same range as his teleport.
View attachment 6788422
I was going to say Forcecage could potentially slow it down a bit through requiring CHA saves to attempt to teleport out, but unfortunately balors are proficient, not to mention having advantage on saves against spells and magical effects, so it'd probably break free on its first turn. You can't use the smaller solid version of Forcecage either since it's huge and wouldn't fit in a 10x10 box.

So how things should have gone:
  1. Warlock drops Maddening Darkness on the balor.
  2. Sorcerer casts large cage version of Forcecage around the balor.
  3. Balor makes WIS save throw, taking 8d8 psychic damage on a failure or half on a success (but likely succeeds because proficient and advantage).
  4. Balor sees through darkness, sees through gaps in cage, attempts to teleport out. It makes a CHA save, and if it succeeds, it escapes (and it probably will because, again, proficient and advantage).
    1. If not, go back to step 3 and repeat until it does, but it probably won't take long.
  5. Balor is no longer a punching bag. Party now has to find another way to deal with it, and fast.
Don't get me wrong, though, even taking it out of the fight for one turn and inflicting some guaranteed damage on it isn't a bad thing. That's one turn that your party can use to thin out other minions while not being attacked by a huge demon's sword and whip. It just wouldn't go as well as they thought it might have.

But if the DM makes a mistake and lets it happen, that's on him. Let it be a lesson in making sure you're well versed on the monsters in your encounters.
 
I was going to say Forcecage could potentially slow it down a bit through requiring CHA saves to attempt to teleport out, but unfortunately balors are proficient, not to mention having advantage on saves against spells and magical effects, so it'd probably break free on its first turn. You can't use the smaller solid version of Forcecage either since it's huge and wouldn't fit in a 10x10 box.

So how things should have gone:
  1. Warlock drops Maddening Darkness on the balor.
  2. Sorcerer casts large cage version of Forcecage around the balor.
  3. Balor makes WIS save throw, taking 8d8 psychic damage on a failure or half on a success (but likely succeeds because proficient and advantage).
  4. Balor sees through darkness, sees through gaps in cage, attempts to teleport out. It makes a CHA save, and if it succeeds, it escapes (and it probably will because, again, proficient and advantage).
    1. If not, go back to step 3 and repeat until it does, but it probably won't take long.
  5. Balor is no longer a punching bag. Party now has to find another way to deal with it, and fast.
Don't get me wrong, though, even taking it out of the fight for one turn and inflicting some guaranteed damage on it isn't a bad thing. That's one turn that your party can use to thin out other minions while not being attacked by a huge demon's sword and whip. It just wouldn't go as well as they thought it might have.

But if the DM makes a mistake and lets it happen, that's on him. Let it be a lesson in making sure you're well versed on the monsters in your encounters.
I've had more than my fair share of battles that I as DM, have felt have either gone suspiciously easy or after being an hour or so into the battle re-read a statblock or a day after the session re-read the PCs ability only to realize I or they completely misinterpreted something and we rolled with it by accident. I do get annoyed when I tried to set up a really challenging fight only for it to have been trivialized by a word or lack thereof, or one of my players omitting a sentence in their spell description and me not double checking. But half the time its a choice between "Do I want this game to go on all night or do I want us to play the game?"
 
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Speaking of Balors, it reminds me of my attempt to use one against a high level party. Warlock casted maddening darkness, sorcerer casted force cage. Balors teleport specifies a space it can see. They proceeded to tee off on his minions and prep for an execution.

It was around then I decided I’d avoid leveling players beyond twelfth level.
With a +12 to Charisma saves and 120 feet of Truesight, how the fuck did it stay in the cuckcage? Not to mention its wingspan should keep it from getting stuck in the force cage to begin with.
 
I've had more than my fair share of battles that I as DM, have felt have either gone suspiciously easy or after being an hour or so into the battle re-read a statblock or a day after the session re-read the PCs ability only to realize I or they completely misinterpreted something and we rolled with it by accident. I do get annoyed when I tried to set up a really challenging fight only for it to have been trivialized by a word or lack thereof, or one of my players omitting a sentence in their spell description and me not double checking. But half the time its a choice between "Do I want this game to go on all night or do I want us to play the game?"
I think every DM's had the same happen, and also its disappointing when the PCs weasel out of what would have been a good fight.
One of the things I dislike about 5e is the overly long spell descriptions which leaves a lot of room for fuckery. 3e to a degree as well but those spells seemed to either have better proof-reading or the munchining was a feature.
 
I think every DM's had the same happen, and also its disappointing when the PCs weasel out of what would have been a good fight.
Story of my life. I run pretty freeform and sometimes I'll have an adventure planned and the the party will find a reason to just not do it. This is almost always because they sense there's a good fight around the corner and are overly cautious anymore. Luckily it's usually also because they have something retarded planned instead and I've ran in the same setting for over a decade so I can just shoot from the hip and everyone has fun. Would I like them to do the planned encounter? Yes. At the cost of them deciding to kidnap a princess or something as the first step of them writing the adventure on their own? No.

Nice thing about it is that I have stacks of ignored adventures that I can recycle pretty easy into one shots that turn into mini-campaigns so I'm rarely at a loss. Should probably organize the notes someday.
 
Being a good DM is more about how good you are at winging it than how good you are at preparing.

ACKS is still on my 'look into' list so specking in generalities
This often is a double edged sword because too tightly integrated of systems means that A) its hard to customize and B) its hard to steal from.
Also C) sometimes there is a subsystem that perfectly massages one of the creator's particular autismic brain folds but everyone at the table utterly loathes and you can't just excise or glaze over it.
The one subsystem that fits the bill is mercantile trade. It's a bizarrely deep, complex system of table lookups, mapping, and rolls to increase the party's income by maaayyybe 10%. Fortunately, it can be entirely ignored.
 
Being a good DM is more about how good you are at winging it than how good you are at preparing.
Truth. Thing about preparing is that sometimes you like to prepare. Years ago I went to Gen Con with a bunch of friends and didn't sign up for anything. Figured I would just wonder around and observe weirdos as I do but wondering the floor and hoping to spot an adult tantrum doesn't fill your time as well when your friends want to show up at 8 in the morning. So I looked for free shit and one of the things was Monte Cook giving advice on how to DM/write a setting.

I don't have strong options on Monte Cook either way but one thing he said stuck with me. Something like, "When you're writing for your next session, write the things your players are probably going to see. It's a waste of time writing the kingdom's legacy of kings when nobody is going to look at it." Guy then paused and said, "but sometimes you just really want to write the kingdom's legacy of kings".

Years later I think just going with the legacy of kings can be a good thing after all, just not if you're in a bind. At least one of those kings can come back as an angry ghost, the bastard son of one of those kings could be pissed off and dangerous, calling someone the name of one of those kings could be seen as a slur. Those aren't things that will pop up right away if they ever do, but they do build on your ability to wing things when times get tough. Maybe it's good prepping after all.

That being said I also just crammed DSP as the new king of the most developed human kingdom and he just begs for money from everyone that he won't pay back so watching retards on the internet is also good for running imho.
 
Preparing story beats at least is important. I write a frame work of adventure hooks and a handful of events the players are likely to be led to, and it helps my sessions immensely. I'm more of a seat of my pants DM, but having something I can refer back to, especially during sessions involving investigation, has made the times I have to just make things up as I go along more grounded.
 
That being said I also just crammed DSP as the new king of the most developed human kingdom and he just begs for money from everyone that he won't pay back so watching retards on the internet is also good for running imho.
hey if it works, it works. I ran a one-shot a month or two ago revolving around the party trying to depose corrupt nobleman Patrick the Hog and steal his wand of imprisonment.
 
hey if it works, it works. I ran a one-shot a month or two ago revolving around the party trying to depose corrupt nobleman Patrick the Hog and steal his wand of imprisonment.
Did they get intelligence intercepts from a group of young orphan street urchins who kept tabs on his movements and activities?
 
I've never heard of it. What is it?
Apparently, how D&D started. The original club were all Napoleonic wargamers who came up with the idea of campaign play - instead of just playing individual battles, when a battle went differently from its historical version, they would play out how the war went. They used a book called Strategos, which was a US Army training exercise from the 1800s, which included the fateful line that the Referee should "bear in mind the principle that anything may be attempted," and because their game had things like the fog of war, they would do things like garrison in towns and ask the civilians for intel.

One of them, David Wesley, had an idea for an experiment and told the group that he wanted to try something for their next campaign, that they were to play a battle over this bordertown named Braunstein, but had to play out a short little improv session to see what the disposition of the town was. Wesley had no intention of actually playing the battle, he was interested in running this weird social game, where one player was the Prussian Landwehr Commander, one player was the Mayor, one player was the Baron, one player was the Chancellor of the University, etc.. A lot more people showed up than Wesley anticipated, so he just started throwing out roles like Tavern Owner, Other Tavern Owner, various students at the University, a French spy, etc.. Wesley laid out the table for the town of Braunstein, assigned everyone a figure and a narrative objective based on their role, and cut them loose. Anything they wanted to "do" went through him, but otherwise they wandered around the town talking to each other. Famously, Dave Arneson got into an argument with one of the other players, challenged him to a duel, and ended up the first person ever killed in a roleplaying game. This idea of each player controlling one figure instead of an entire army and solving problems by exploring, fighting, and talking is generally considered the birth of the tabletop RPG.

Wesley thought that Braunstein was an utter failure because the players mostly just talked to each other and didn't run stuff by him, so at the end he didn't have a full picture of what had happened. His players loved it, however, and he ended up refining the formula. "Braunstein IV" was set on a fictional banana republic ('Banania') with different players taking the roles of powerplayers as the government collapses - four different military commanders, government officials like the Treasurer and Head of the Secret Police, local business owners, local union reps, revolutionary groups, etc.. This time, a lot of the roles had control of a small number of figures (the army commander controls a couple of soldiers, for instance, or the union guys have groups of workers, the revolutionaries have guerrillas, etc.). There are a bunch of videos out there about it, none of which are perfect, but Questing Beast's is decent.

Modern Braunstein play isn't really formalized, but I've heard it simplified as much as "multiple actors operating in conflict under a fog of war." To me, it's just letting your players actually be independent actors, transforming the GM from storyteller back into referee. Everyone tries to make their campaign Lord of the Rings or Star Wars (and usually fails), but I think if you slip the reigns a bit, let your players control their own factions (or be a faction of one, however difficult), it opens you up to stories like Game of Thrones or Succession - and ultimately requires a lot less work on the GMs part, as your players are the ones actively making the story.

The BrOSR's "Brozer" Braunstein is...kind of really dumb, but there's some remarkably interesting ideas in it, imo.
 

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Being a good DM is more about how good you are at winging it than how good you are at preparing.
However, if you prepare well, it makes winging it a lot easier. I always had it set up so if my "plan" was well you go meet this guy and do this thing to get on with the campaign, and the party got distracted by a rabbit or something and decided well, fuck that guy, let's go talk to this guy instead, I could just whip out a couple of index cards and have "that guy" already with a personality and stats to fight if they tried to murder him or something, and at least a simple fetch quest as a distraction from the main campaign.
Modern Braunstein play isn't really formalized, but I've heard it simplified as much as "multiple actors operating in conflict under a fog of war." To me, it's just letting your players actually be independent actors, transforming the GM from storyteller back into referee.
That really reminds me of the absolute last major "campaign" I ever ran, which was in Ringworld.

Because reasons, instead of actually landing on it, the party crashlanded onto it, and because of preexisting personality conflicts, not only didn't the party ever get into the campaign, but they never even left the ship. It was one of those pretty much indestructible GP hulls with stasis fields so everything was functional and nobody was harmed.

Instead, the party members huddled down in their own quarters and conspired against each other and formed factions and fought each other in proxy wars by recruiting locals who viewed the aliens who came out of the sky as anything from gods to demons to (the smarter view) a bunch of dumbasses who crashed their ship.

This was in college so it was rare for there to be more than three people in a session, so there would usually be an update on machinations that had happened with nonpresent members.

Oh. Nothing ever happened. That part was realistic.

I like the idea, though. The GM should never be some weird little mini-god.
 
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