Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[FamicomGorby]

And according to Russ he almost got arrested over it:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/russell-greer-just_some_dude_named_russell29-a-safer-nevada-pac.30488/post-5750341

Obviously bullshit, why the fuck is the letter written in the third person? The judge probably did tell him to shut the fuck up since the letter is hearsay even if it was genuine.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

in what universe is a lawyer supposed to act as a 'true neutral third party'

I guess if the lawyer is selected as an arbitrator or some sort of third party neutral in a dispute, that could be the case. But Greer is just being retarded. Hardin wasn't selected to hold funds in dispute or as a private arbitrator. He's Josh's lawyer in an adversarial process, and he doesn't owe Greer anything other than candor.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I have truly marvelous witnesses and evidance but this iPhone is too narrow to contain them.

Ah, Mobius' last theorem.

 

[Debbie Macomber]

Woo! Took a while to catch up

I don't like how sloppy Hardin got here.

Russ was 18 when the school shooting incident happened, so Rekieta was able to get the records because he wasn't a juvenile.

As far as the police report said, the graffiti mentioned "8 people on my list" but no names, and no kill list was recovered, it likely never being written and just made up for Russell's "senior prank"

He also used the usual spelling for Erica whereas the girl's name was spelled "Erika".

But then again, this is just an email for Russell, not court documents, and he wouldn't know all that if Russ hasn't handed them over because he wants them from an official source like Russ, not the farms.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time Russhole fabricated fake evidence to try to win a lolsuit. I'm sure most people in this thread are familiar with the Hof letter forgery.

I tend to think the letter wasn't "forged", it was written by Russell and signed by Hof as a receipt for the fact that he already got 3 other hookers to make up for the one he wasted his time with at Olive Garden. As in "Case settled, now you can't sue me". But Russ wanted to sue the hooker personally and Hof wouldn't show for that.

Or this undeniably 100% authentic email sent straight from the gangster computer at the world headquarters of Kiwi Farms, a website.
View attachment 6804790View attachment 6804792

Or that time he mailed himself a bag of dirt, which he claimed was sent by Taylor Swift herself.

I also tend to agree with the poster that said this email is too self aware for Russ, with the sarcastic implication he only lost any case because kiwifarms bribed judges. I believe that email also said "it was hard to take down a skilled paralegal" again, a level of sarcasm and self awareness Russell isn't capable of.

in what universe is a lawyer supposed to act as a 'true neutral third party'

His lawyer in the Erika stalking case probably told Russell he's a third party who should be the only one to negotiate with Erika's team on his behalf, and that it was in his best interests to take the guilty plea. So of course in Russell logic, if Hardin were the unemotional go between for Russ and Null, he'd be advising Null settle since he's so obviously guilty.

 

[Thomas Talus]

in what universe is a lawyer supposed to act as a 'true neutral third party'
he literally gets paid to defend his clients interests above all else

Russ clearly misunderstands the idea, but I do like to remind people that it's useful to have someone advocating for your interests, who is not personally emotionally invested in those interests. E.g., "sure that might make you feel good, but it'd probably cost you over $50k without getting anything of monetary value in return."

 

[Harm]

He also used the usual spelling for Erica whereas the girl's name was spelled "Erika".

I know we shouldn't help Russell out, but you've caught onto something BIG here. Greer should immediately file over this and draw as much attention towards it as possible because the judge will surely throw the book at Hardin once this little snafu comes to light.

 

[Blasterisk]

I know we shouldn't help Russell out, but you've caught onto something BIG here. Greer should immediately file over this and draw as much attention towards it as possible because the judge will surely throw the book at Hardin once this little snafu comes to light.

The concept of a MOTION OF SIE HEIßT ERIKA is extremely novel and I am eager to see how it plays out.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

And according to Russ he almost got arrested over it:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/russell-greer-just_some_dude_named_russell29-a-safer-nevada-pac.30488/post-5750341

A good way to prove that Russ operates in bad faith and that all provided documentation should be held to the highest level of scrutiny.

 

[Nick G]

And according to Russ he almost got arrested over it:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/russell-greer-just_some_dude_named_russell29-a-safer-nevada-pac.30488/post-5750341

I was curious how the letter from Hof came to be. At the outset, despite this being clearly drafted by Russell, I find it hard to believe he would forge this document, sign it, and file it as evidence entirely without Hof's consent. That type of thing is extremely rare in litigation, even when dealing with parties that dishonest in other ways. After reviewing what I could find, I do believe Hof signed this document, albeit with the full knowledge that it would not be admissible. The events I believe lead to this document being filed, pieced together from various sources in the thread, are below.

• Russell attempts to sleep with prostitute Murphy Walters (stage name Keira Keeper) at the Bunny Ranch on November 9, 2014.
  • Greer paid $4,000 not counting dinner or travel expenses, of which $2,000 went to Hof and $2,000 went to Walters.
  • Neither Greer nor Walters makes any overt sexual advances before the time runs out, so Russell gets no sex.
• Russell complains to brothel owner Dennis Hof and the Bunny Ranch staff, and at some point threatens litigation.
• Hof and the Bunny Ranch respond by being very sympathetic to Greer, and explain he should direct any ill-will towards Ms. Walters.
  • Dennis Hof tells Russel "I usually tell people 'too bad' when these types of things happen, but I like you, and want to give you some compensation."
    • Russell is provided with a voucher for sexual acts with other women, however only worth a fraction of what he paid.
  • The Madame also supports Russel, explaining that Walters is a "master manipulator".
  • To show his support for Russell, Dennis Hof fines Walters $1,000 (50% of her earnings).
    • This money is not refunded to Greer, but rather Dennis assures Russel it will be distributed among the other women.
    • Of Russell's original $4,000, Hof has now taken $3,000 with Walters only having $1,000.
• Hof's approach for dealing with Russell works, and Russel decides to sue only Walters, despite Hof having taken 75% of his money.
  • He explicitly justifies this decision in his complaint by noting that Hof was nice to him and Walters was not.
    • "In determining whom to sue...I used my paralegal skills and determined that Keira [Walters] is whom I should sue as the Bunny Ranch made an effort to show that they cared."
  • In addition to not suing the Bunny Ranch, Russell subsequently returns to the Bunny Ranch and gives Hof more money.
• Greer tells Hof he will be subpoenad, as surely Hof will be his star witness given how supportive he is.
  • Hof is now in a pickle. It would be a very bad move professionally were he to testify for Greer against his own prostitute (at the time of the original event) in court.
  • Hof asks Russell to not file any subpoena, however indicates that he will sign a written statement (that he knew would be inadmissible), and may have told Russel he would testify on a vountary basis.
    • Given how Hof has been nice to him, and his inexperience with how basic legal concepts work, Greer agrees to this arrangement and drafts the now infamous document for Hof to sign.
    • Predictably, Hof did not show up in court as he had no legal obligation to, and the letter was immediately ruled inadmissible.

While most of the narrative above is supported by one or more of Greer's posts, the one part that directly contradicts some of Greer's statements is the level to which Hof was supportive of him. In more recent posts, Greer has stated that Hof was not sympathetic at all and opposed his lawsuit against Walters. This is one reason why many observers have concluded the letter must be an outright forgery made without Hof's involvement. After all, why would somebody who hates you be your star witness? However, this appears to be an example of Russell rewriting history. His small claims complaint, which is the most important document for understanding his thinking at the time, makes it clear that he believes Hof is on his side. His later retellings change after his relationship with Hof sours. While one could conclude that the earlier statement is the lie, I think the fact that Greer never sued Hof and expected him to testify voluntarily indicates he genuinely believed Hof was on his side.

Additionally, Russel's reflection that Hof was trying to avoid any subpoena being issued explains why Hof would sign such a stupid document. He signed an email thread that he knew would be completely inadmissible because this was the easiest way to get Russel to go away. Despite coming off as a total scumbag, due to being adept with handling people like Greer, Hof somehow profited on the situation. He ended up with (1) $3,000 of the $4,000 paid by Greer, (2) not getting sued for this money, (3) not needing to testify against other parties, and somehow (4) Greer came back later and spent more money.

Finally, this may answer an important question in Russellology--why does Russel keep threatening people when he literally never wins? Is it just to be annoying? Similar to how problem gamblers almost always experienced "beginners luck" it looks like Russel did get a sufficient hit of dopamine from this interaction to keep him hooked. Regardless of the end result, at the time this case was active Russell believed that his legal threats had worked to some extent. As a result of his actions, he had received a sympathetic audience of people above his station in life, some amount of access to sexual services provided to make up for the hardship, and had cost his enemy (Ms. Walters) $1,000 because of the injustice. Those are all results he has attempted to replicate with his later litigation.

Notable Documents
Original Greer v. Walters Complaint:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.152916/gov.uscourts.nvd.152916.32.12.pdf

Message reflecting on failure to file for subpoena on Hof

https://kiwifarms.st/attachments/screenshot_20240226_103846_brave-jpg.5758405/

 

[mindlessobserver]

Getting a lien against the retard (and ideally getting him finally recognized as the vexatious litigating cocksucker that he is) is worthwhile in itself, pour encourager les autres.

This. Null needs Greer's mobius frozen head on a pike under the "removing content" tab at the bottom of the forum. It isn't about the money. Its abouuuuuuut sendiiing a fucking MESSSAGE!

 

[Shakespeare]

The events I believe lead to this document being filed, pieced together from various sources in the thread, are below.

There's a lot of weird things in that email that makes me doubt that Hof had anything to do with it.

Firstly it acts too much like Greer is some sort of big shot, it claims that Hof personally had multiple discussion with the prostitute before her meeting with Greer. And while I admittedly know where little about the everyday running of a brothel, I very much doubt that the owner is personally involved with "the dates". Secondly, it's in second person which is pretty weird if Hof was writing it himself.

My conclusion is that Greer wrote the letter because he's that retarded that he genuinely believed that the judge would look at the letter, say "that's good enough for me" and ask no further questions.

 

[Nick G]

There's a lot of weird things in that email that makes me doubt that Hof had anything to do with it.

Firstly it acts too much like Greer is some sort of big shot, it claims that Hof personally had multiple discussion with the prostitute before her meeting with Greer. And while I admittedly know where little about the everyday running of a brothel, I very much doubt that the owner is personally involved with "the dates". Secondly, it's in second person which is pretty weird if Hof was writing it himself.

My conclusion is that Greer wrote the letter because he's that retarded that he genuinely believed that the judge would look at the letter, say "that's good enough for me" and ask no further questions.

To be clear, I 100% agree that Greer drafted the statement himself, and noted the statement is "clearly drafted by Russell" in my post. The question I was aiming to address is whether Hof's signature was legitimate, or if Russel forged the signature as many users believe.

 

[Swole McPole]

"Loser pays" is generally called the "European rule" although it applies in Commonwealth countries as well, while both sides paying their own legal fees is the "American rule." There are differences in both countries, since the American rule basically would result in a financial death penalty to anyone who lost against Microsoft, not because their claim was invalid, but because they dared to sue a titanic monster that can spend the GDP of a small country defending a suit and engage in all the shitfiling imaginable until the other side just runs out of money.

This is how it works here. We have something called 'taxation', so after the case is decided and costs are awarded, the parties have to apply to the court to have the costs 'taxed'. This means a judge decides whether the amount of costs spent on the case are reasonable and proportionate.

In practice, pretty well everyone gets their costs reduced regardless of how reasonable they might be. Judge (or somebody called a 'taxing master') will look at the bill and say, 'twenty minutes on that phone call? That should have taken three minutes at most. And reduce the bill accordingly. )

They go through this process with the most mundane, meat and potatoes, neighbour suing neighbour cases, so big companies tend to know better than to try this shit on. But generally, most civil cases are underwritten by insurance companies and they also tend to underwrite costs as well. The exceptions are celebrity defamation cases where the costs can be ruinous to all concerned.

I think it's a stretch to say it works "fine." I'd leave it at "works." Sort of.

Yeah, that's fair comment. Though our current system is less annoying than when civil litigation used to be covered by the legal aid system and ambulance chasers would rome the streets seeking out ne'er do well's and slide them a crisp £20 note for filing a tripping claim against the local authority. Anywhere there was a paving slab that had sunk lower than an inch below the adjacent slab, you had evidence of negligence and any injury that could be attributed to a trip at that location meant a pay out. But win or lose, it didn't matter. Lawyers got paid anyway.

The only lawyers making bank on civil legal aid here these days are the ones bringing claims for breaches of the Human Rights legislation for govt. attempts to deport migrants back to their shitholes of origin.

 

[Debbie Macomber]

To show his support for Russell, Dennis Hof fines Walters $1,000 (50% of her earnings).

• This money is not refunded to Greer, but rather Dennis assures Russel it will be distributed among the other women.

This is one of the weirder more ambiguous parts of the note.

It is frequently interpreted as saying Russ was given a partial refund he immediately spent on fucking three other prostitutes, but it could also be read like Hof took half of Keira's cut for being a bad girl and gave it to three other hookers who deserved it more, without Russell getting to fuck them?

 

[AngeloTheWizard]

This is one of the weirder more ambiguous parts of the note.

It is frequently interpreted as saying Russ was given a partial refund he immediately spent on fucking three other prostitutes, but it could also be read like Hof took half of Keira's cut for being a bad girl and gave it to three other hookers who deserved it more, without Russell getting to fuck them?

Do we have proof it actually happened, or did Hof make a bunch of bluster because he saw Russell for what Russell is: a sucker who can be easily manipulated into spending more $$$$ at the brothel?

 

[The Dude]

Do we have proof it actually happened, or did Hof make a bunch of bluster because he saw Russell for what Russell is: a sucker who can be easily manipulated into spending more $$$$ at the brothel?

As far as I know, we only have Russhole's word on any of this, and he has proven himself time and time again to be a very unreliable narrator.

 

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

Whether this case stalls out for another year or we finally get a ruling, I'm looking forward to more unhinged rants from Russell. Happy new year, my fellow armchair lawyers!

 

[DavidS877]

Whether this case stalls out for another year or we finally get a ruling, I'm looking forward to more unhinged rants from Russell. Happy new year, my fellow armchair lawyers!

Speaking of, did we really not get an amended pleading today... I guess Greer might have emailed it after the clerk left so we may not see it till Thursday. This is disappointing and 2024 is ruined.

 

[Debbie Macomber]

I'm thinking the real threat of Hardin deposing Russell's dad and brother is that he would ask them under oath about the school shooting incident

 

[AngeloTheWizard]

As far as I know, we only have Russhole's word on any of this, and he has proven himself time and time again to be a very unreliable narrator.

I thought as much. So as far as we know, Russell thinks the Ranch is being nice to him, when in reality they were likely lying bold face because they saw an easy mark. I'd do much the same.