Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Gondolindrim]

As the invasion reaches the end of its third year, at an estimated cost of a million people, killed or wounded, Ukraine appears to be losing.
In distant Washington, meanwhile, the unpredictable Donald Trump, not famous for his love of Ukraine or its leader, is about to take over in the White House.

“There’s a lot of talk about negotiations, but it’s an illusion,” says Mykhailo Podolyak, advisor to the head of President Zelensky’s office.
“No negotiation process can take place because Russia has not been made to pay a high enough price for this war.”

“What we’re seeing now is a very smart strategy exercise by President Zelensky,” his former foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba told the US Council on Foreign Relations in December.
Zelensky, he said, was “signalling constructiveness and readiness to engage with President Trump.”

“Because Trump hasn’t fully explained how he’s going to go about it, Ukrainians are trying to give him some ideas that he may present as his own,” says Orysia Lutsevych, head of the Ukraine Forum at Chatham House.
“They know how to work with that ego.”

As part of his “Victory Plan”, unveiled in October, Zelensky suggested that battle-hardened Ukrainian troops could replace US forces in Europe after the war with Russia ends.

With Ukraine continuing to experience severe shortages of manpower, the UK Defence Secretary John Healey said the government might be willing to send British troops to Ukraine to help with training.

Nato membership in particular remains a sticking point, as it has been since well before Russia’s full-scale invasion.
For Kyiv, it’s the only way to guarantee the country’s future survival, against a rapacious Russian enemy bent on subjugating Ukraine.

“Zelensky understands that he cannot just have a naked ceasefire,” Orysia Lutsevych says.
“It has to be a ceasefire plus. It would be suicide for Zelensky just to accept a ceasefire and not to have any answer how Ukraine is protected.”

But Kofman is sceptical. “Security guarantees that don’t have the United States involved in them as one of the guarantors is like a donut with a giant missing middle in it.”

Kyiv’s allies have also continued to ratchet up sanctions on Moscow, in the hope that Russia’s war-time economy, which has proved stubbornly resilient, may finally break.
“There’s been deep frustration that sanctions haven’t just shattered the Russian economy beyond repair,” a US congressional source said, on condition of anonymity.

Putin is putting on a brave face. “The sanctions are having an effect,” he said during his end of year news conference, “but they are not of key importance.”
Along with Russia’s staggering losses on the battlefield – western officials estimate that Moscow is losing an average of 1,500 men, killed and wounded, every day – the cost of this war could yet drive Putin to the negotiating table.
But how much more territory will Ukraine have lost - and how many more people will have been killed - by the time that point is reached?

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2ldpnyewx1o

They're trying to break the news gently that this shit isn't going well. So when Trump (probably) ceases support this year, there aren't riots in the streets. I'm expecting a few Ukie suicide bombers to try and make a stir though. Nazis don't tend to take losing well.

 

[God of Nothing]

They're trying to break the news gently that this shit isn't going well. So when Trump (probably) ceases support this year, there aren't riots in the streets. I'm expecting a few Ukie suicide bombers to try and make a stir though. Nazis don't tend to take losing well.

That would be nice if we dropped all support. Lord fucking knows we've spent enough billions on that lost cause. I think it's more likely he'll negotiate some kind of ceasefire with Russia keeping what they've gained though. A lot of pressure to help Ukraine that I can see him at least putting a pause on its cessation for now. Besides, losing isn't his style.

Of course, this is all to be seen in the coming months to years.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

I agree with the premise but, just based on anecdotal evidence, many people seem to have either had it bred out of them or may just be defective in some way as you say. That's why veterans are often so fucked on return home. Look at the suicide and depression rates of Western vets who only got in minor fighting against insurgents, and now imagine the trauma Russian & Ukrainian vets are going to have after being involved in this shit.

Regardless of what our ancestors experienced, life and death situations are NOT normal anymore and most people are NOT hardwired to fight to the death. They'll do it if they have to but it fucks them up in the long term.I'm the opposite of a pacifist, I think there are many situations you'll have to fight in life bur it's never honorable and in fact the less honor the better because it'll hopefully bd over quicker. Be dishonorable, do what you need to win. Hit them first, really fuck them up. But don't sugarcoat it with "honor".

The honor is in fighting for what belongs to you when someone comes to take it away. I get that sentiment on both sides, but for Ukrainians who fell for the propaganda that Russia was the cause of all their misfortunes (as their oligarchs sold off even Oksana's screams from being sold as a sex slave) and gleefully attacked Eastern Ukraine, killing Ukrainians for the imaginary crime of being of Russian descent, in lands that had always been Russian, it's a misplaced and tragic sentiment. For Russians it's far from the first time a belligerent has tried-and failed-to invade, exploit and destroy the Rus, and the Russian nation. I feel that every time it happens Russia just goes harder.

Russia was honorable at the start of this war, it fought with restraint and look how that turned out. Gloves are off now, and Ukraine is fucked.

Well, for Americans there's no honor in fighting foreign wars. Neither the Taliban or Iraq attacked the US yet thousands were fooled into joining the military because the Bush Administration that lied said they did. Russians are fighting to stop yet another American adventure in Russia as NATO isn't hiding why they armed and funded hohols.

Oh, this is a stress thing. For most of our history, we fought pretty upfront wars all things considered. Get in formation, face the enemy, and lift your shield when arrows come. Shit can get loud, but it won't blow out your eardrums. Now your eardrums are always getting blown out. Arrows were replaced by artillery shells. Anyone can kill you any time from anywhere. We didn't exactly evolve to deal with this kind of warfare. Something in us just snaps, and we're never quite the same. You're right that not everyone is wired for this, but it'd be better to say none of us are wired to worry about bombs dropping on us.

I remember something like even people who said war was when the best of mankind emerged during WW2 thought artillery was horrible.

For a nation that prides itself on individualism its astounding how many people care what randos think of them. I blame the pervasive influence of the media, in all its forms. Also, schools put an huge emphasis on being able make friends. Yeah, of course kids should have friends, but they should remain individuals. It's very difficult with all of the effort our government has put into alienating people from their families.

 

[Slicc Vicc]

western officials estimate that Moscow is losing an average of 1,500 men, killed and wounded, every day

Yet it’s dumbfuckistan being pressured into conscripting 18 years of olds.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Yet it’s dumbfuckistan being pressured into conscripting 18 years of olds.

You ever win a war so hard that you're forced to send women and teenagers to the front line?

 

[Fapcop]

Look at the suicide and depression rates of Western vets who only got in minor fighting against insurgents, and now imagine the trauma Russian & Ukrainian vets are going to have after being involved in this shit.

I think there’s a difference between fighting for an honorable cause like your country…

And signing up because you think you’re defending your country, get sent into a war for oil and Globohomo sponsoring corporations, be forced to kill and see how little your life matters to them. And after years abroad in a pointless war, get kicked out/pulled out so that the sandniggers who were trying to kill you can take over.

Not saying veterans of the war in Ukraine won’t have PTSD, but surely at lower rates than American soldiers.

Another difference is attitude and spirit. Russians and Ukrainians know that war is terrible, and that life isn’t always neither fair nor pretty.

Compare that with some 20 year old American who only knows of war from movies, and thinks that he’s always on the side of justice and freedom. PTSD isn’t just about what you’ve seen. It’s also about having that human spirit crushed.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

It’s also about having that human spirit crushed.

When you realize you killed and butchered for the corporations/MIC controlled by the United States of Israel, and your children are being groomed to troon out in elementary school; when murderous niggers run wild and kill, only getting a slap on the wrist while you are gulaged for protesting; when a business hires a fraudulent H1B poo scammer instead of you, a soldier who shed blood in what you believed was the defense of the nation; when you see open borders and your loved ones accosted by south of the border mystery meat who are championed by your President, Congress and judges; of course, a truly honorable man would want to kill himself. But they should turn that despair into righteous anger, taking it to its logical conclusion. Maybe one day, I don't know, but I think the USA will undergo very turbulent times in the future.

NY Times: Are Russian Sanctions Working? Debate Gains New Urgency With Trump. The president-elect has said he will use sanctions sparingly while vowing to end the war in Ukraine, renewing questions over their efficacy. Archive

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[Radola Gajda]

Kiev garrison, officer.
Yep looks like he was hit by one of the Kinzhals or Iskanders that Russians fired recently.

 

[Slicc Vicc]

Participated in anti terrorist operation

Rest in piss bozo

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

View attachment 6816327
View attachment 6816328
Kiev garrison, officer.
Yep looks like he was hit by one of the Kinzhals or Iskanders that Russians fired recently.

Naming your unit after a meme, putting a video game character as the units insignia.

 

[God of Nothing]

View attachment 6816395
Naming your unit after a meme, putting a video game character as the units insignia.

ah, the propaganda "special" forces
it's amazing how they ripped off cod twice

 

[Meh123]

The president-elect has said he will use sanctions sparingly

He also throwing around threats of tariffs like candy, so I have my doubts about him engaging in meaningful diplomacy.
I got the impression that he's captured in the "murrica stronk" bubble where he can order pootin to stop the war "or else".
The same goes for the dollar dominance: use it or else tariffs, fundamentally not caring/understanding why the dollar is going under and thinking he can strong-arm BRICS into returning to the fold.

Maybe one day, I don't know, but I think the USA will undergo very turbulent times in the future

I have my doubts. Modern countries, especially western ones grew soft and complacent living a good cozy life. Things must be much-much worse for people to become desperate enough to actually get up and 2nd amend the government.

Edit:

it's amazing how they ripped off cod twice

Even more amazing how Activision haven't sued them on copyright grounds

 

[Slicc Vicc]

Lmao press ganging people snatcher literally saying “it’s fucking your fault that you elected a clown”. Based

 

[Blade of Grass]

Lmao press ganging people snatcher literally saying “it’s fucking your fault that you elected a clown”. Based
View attachment 6816507

Soon, soon the proud Ukrainians will rise up against such tyranny and topple the disrespectful government, like they always do! Right?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

I got the impression that he's captured in the "murrica stronk" bubble

Aren't all are the NAFOtards as well? It's the "think positive thoughts" mentality but it's actually denial of reality.

Things must be much-much worse for people to become desperate enough

A demand to get thrown into a Bakhmut style meatgrinder would do it. The majority of Americans aren't as naive as they were after 9-11 or 2003. Military families are actively dissuading their children from enlisting. We're not the only burgers that follow what's been happening to the AFU, and if you ignore a nation's needs like infrastructure, security and the economy too long they won't feel there's anything worth fighting for.

 

[Lookie-lou]

Also don't bother with the other thread, they believe in a fantasy version of this war where their beloved Nazi larpers are angels and Russians are dumb orcs.

speedrunning a ban is the only thing worth doing there. They sure as shit agree with that about our thread.

 

[Betonhaus]

speedrunning a ban is the only thing worth doing there. They sure as shit agree with that about our thread.

Didn't we have a third thread where people could pull quotes from the other thread and dispute them there? Although if you're banned from the thread you're banned from quoting unless you do it manually which is a pain.

 

[Slicc Vicc]

Apparently the hohol killed the Yakut’s friend just prior. And he had 6 more ukrops coming after him since that

 

[Useful_Mistake]

 

[jje100010001]

Soon, soon the proud Ukrainians will rise up against such tyranny and topple the disrespectful government, like they always do! Right?

I would like to point out that pro-Russian folks have been constantly predicting the collapse of the Ukrainian army for about a year or two by now, but they're operating on a WW2 post-war sense of warfare, not a country that's decided to go full-Paraguay in terms of total warfare.

Literally 3 fully-equipped armies have been created and destroyed so far, they've grabbed the middle-aged men, and now they're preparing to send the 18 year olds into the grinders.

So a Russian victory will likely end with THD, not with a typical enemy military defeat.

He also throwing around threats of tariffs like candy, so I have my doubts about him engaging in meaningful diplomacy.
I got the impression that he's captured in the "murrica stronk" bubble where he can order pootin to stop the war "or else".
The same goes for the dollar dominance: use it or else tariffs, fundamentally not caring/understanding why the dollar is going under and thinking he can strong-arm BRICS into returning to the fold.

On the other hand, Ukraine did screw Trump over during his first term, and Trump has always been a petty one.

IMO if he isn't being bubbled (fed bad info), he will likely think that the war is a total waste of money. The issue of course is that the rest of Washington wants this war when the US should really be pivoting to China atm.