Animal Breeding Horror Show - Featuring trendy bulldogs, exotic bullies and the dog cum cartel

Would you jerk off animals daily for $10,000 a month?


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'Member when animals were bred for health and temperament so they could preform a job?

We have to go back...
What's crazy to me isn't even breeding for appearance, but the fact that the appearance being bred for is so far outside what the animal is supposed to look like it's like their goal look is a different animal entirely! If you've got a horse that starts out with, say, chestnut hair, why the hell do you breed it to have a face shaped like a sattelite dish instead of trying to get the richest, most beautiful shade of chestnut?
With many kinds of animals, the brightness/richness of their coloring is actually a health marker, and selecting for bright/rich colors typically leads to healthier offspring as long as the colors in question are their normal colors and not weird mutation colors (which are at best unrelated to health and don't increase your odds of selecting healthy breeding stock on its own, or at worst are connected to health problems e.g. neurological issues).
 
I don't know why I can't quote you @Less Nasty Old Person, I agree that halter horses are living art at best useless at worst. Technically they can be rode but their fragile features mean they get injured more easily. Personality wise they're more high strung than other Arabians so they like to be absolute fucking assholes. Not easy to train, not rideable, would probably try to kick their own shadow (and then you just because they're pissed off).

When I said investment I didn't mean something that had any returns on it outside of personal satisfaction. Horses are a time and money pit. They eat so goddamn much and hay is always expensive. The only people getting money back are breeders. Holy shit some of those guys are filthy rich.

I wasn't aware of HYPP, thank you for the info. That's incredibly fucked up. From a quick glance it looks like it started with the Quarter Horse sire Impressive. U of M on HYPP
 
Yes, and showmanship, like the other guy had sperged out about.

But, there's an remote chance that they'll be born with an fucked up immune system or have several forms of paralysis.
SCID is a problem in Arabisns and related horses. There is a genetic test for it so carrier-to-carrier matings can be avoided. It's a recessive, so it takes a copy of the gene from both parents to get a foal born without an immune system.

The thing that differentiates SCID from HYPP is that SCID doesn't improve an animals chances in the show ring, but HYPP absolutely does.

I wasn't aware of HYPP, thank you for the info. That's incredibly fucked up. From a quick glance it looks like it started with the Quarter Horse sire Impressive. U of M on HYPP

Impressive originated the HYPP mutation but was unaffected himself. He was actually a really well built horse by anyone's standards and dominated halter classes for years for good reason. He was nothing like like the lardy HYPP freaks that descended from him. More notable is the temperament he passed on to many of his offspring. Handsome is as handsome does.

Just as lulzworthy were the Foundation Quarter Horse registries that sprung up at the time. One disqualification was any ancestors tracing back to Impressive because of HYPP and his recent percentage of Thoroughbred ancestry.

Two things are funny about this. Some of their most revered foundation examples are descended from Three Bars, a Thoroughbred stallion who is one of the major cornerstones of foundation breeding. So was Impressive. There hasn't been a time when Thoroughbreds wern't a huge part of the breed so haha.

And the foundation people have their own equivalent to Impressive -- HERDA, a horrifying connective tissue disease that originated with the stallion Poco Bueno (or a close ancestor), one of the most influential sires in the history of the breed.

Unlike HYPP, HERDA horses have weak skin that literally tears like wet kleenex. People often found this out when a colt's skin split along the back and rolled off the first time they put a saddle on him. Foundation people don't like you mentioning that and still reeeee about Impressive destroying the breed.

Fortunately there's a five panel (or is it now six?) that tests for HYPP, HERDA, PSSM, OLWS and a couple other common mutations. Anything you want to buy, sell, register or breed in the QH world needs this test. If a horse has "5 panel clear" in its bio, that's good. If it doesn't, the owner didn't simply not get around to testing it, if you know what I mean.

Nobody knows how many backyard horses carry these genes because idiots breed any mutt to any other mutt without any idea of its breed or pedigree because it's a purty color. Your kid's $500 horse might just end up falling and killing her if it has an HYPP attack, or piss out its own muscle cells if it has PSSM, or gives you a cute white foal with OLWS and a digestive tract that ends without an anus and dies of colic in a few days.

Animal breeders are fucking horrible.

Edit: tyop
 
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I wasn't aware of HYPP, thank you for the info. That's incredibly fucked up.
The sheer number of horses being sold with confirmed HYPP is crazy to me, they practically advertise it with a lot of these backyard bred horses. You know it's a fucked up business when sellers aren't even attempting to hide deformities and serious health conditions in the animals they're breeding. I guess people aren't being outright scammed by omission, but it's still bizarre. It would be like these "Bully breeders" advertising confirmed entropion or tracheal collapse as a "feature" and selling them full price.
 
The sheer number of horses being sold with confirmed HYPP is crazy to me, they practically advertise it with a lot of these backyard bred horses. You know it's a fucked up business when sellers aren't even attempting to hide deformities and serious health conditions in the animals they're breeding. I guess people aren't being outright scammed by omission, but it's still bizarre. It would be like these "Bully breeders" advertising confirmed entropion or tracheal collapse as a "feature" and selling them full price.
It makes them beefy and muscular because the muscle fibers are constantly twitching. Easier and quicker than pumping them with steroids or actually, you know, exercising them (risky because halter conformation means muscle building exercise is really rough on their toothpick legs and teacup sized hooves).

HYPP is an incomplete dominant. One dose of the HYPP gene is less severe than two doses. One dose or two, ALL animals with the gene are affected. Owners of a heterozygous HYPP horse will claim that it's "unaffected" or "easily managed" through medications and a lifelong special diet. Put your kids on a horse like that and you're risking their lives.

It's not like a recessive gene like OLWS (lethal white) or HERDA, where an animal with one copy of the gene is perfectly healthy, but one with two copies either dies painfully shortly after birth (OLWS) or walks right out of its skin (HERDA). Just don't breed carrier to carrier, and there's no risk of a lethal white foal. Backyard horses (of course) also often have the gene, and this results in more lethal white foals than there needs to be.

Genetic traits are fun. Cream (palomino / buckskin) is another incomplete dominant. Any red or bay horse with one copy will show the trait visibly. Two copies produce a nearly white horse with pale skin and eyes. For decades, the AQHA refused to register these horses because they had too much white. They're also IMO unattractive and susceptible to sunburn and skin cancer unlike their black-skinned colleagues.

The "Silver Dapple" gene is another incomplete dominant color gene with bad effects, but people like the weird colored horses it produces. It fucks up the structure of their eyes as well, one copy of the gene not as severely affected as two copies. But they sure are purty. There is (or was) a Quarter Horse stud named "Silver Assured" who was homozygous and therefore reliably passed the gene to all his babies. There's a decent chance he's blind.

Appaloosas (the ones with anything from a spotty butt to overall leopard spots) also have fucked up eyes. This one is polygenic with multiple alleles, and the right combination causes a painful disease where the eye periodically gets inflamed and swollen eventually causing blindness. But spots sure are pretty so.

Just about every pet species has genes that can really mess up an animal. Some white spotting genes are almost always associated with deafness. In fact, genes that add white to the coat are disproportionally likely to cause developmental problems, which is a bummer because they're also really cute. Some are perfectly healthy, a lot of them are not.

Certain coat color genes (merle in dogs -- think Aussie Shepherds, various "roan" and "mottled" genes in guinea pigs and hamsters, and probably lots of other animals) cause a pretty coat pattern with only one copy of the gene, and blind (or even eyeless), deaf, and often toothless babies with a double dose.

NATURALLY, dog breeders are falling over themselves to introduce the merle gene into pitbulls, french bulldogs, poodles, and other breeds where it has no business existing. This has the Kennel Club people a-tizzy, because Blood Must Be Kept Pure At All Costs which is why ALL Dalmations can't get rid of uric acid. Meanwhile breeders are studding out double-merle dogs that are eyeless and deaf, and almost pure white, because OF COURSE THEY ARE, so you'll always get merle pups.

The squashed brachycephalic faces are far from only the obvious genetic crime against dogs (and cats). There are just so many other genes that look cool on the surface but cause one degree or another of suffering to the animal.

Hairless mutations are cute (YMMV), but females often can't nurse their young because the same defect also causes dysfunctional mammary glands.

Curly haired mutations are cute, but for those who absolutely NEED their whiskers to get around (nocturnal, tunnel dwellers, etc.), this deprives them of a critical sense organ.

Long haired mutations are cute, but diabolically incapable of keeping their luxurious hair properly groomed. They get all matted up and suffer from literal skin rot and bug infestations if not cared for rigorously by owners. Bonus: long hair and flat faces is the ultimate torture for Persian cats and related breeds when the weather gets hot.

Dwarfism is cute (again YYMV) but long-backed dog breeds like Doxies have well documented back problems.

Short or missing tails are cute but too short and they have no bowel or bladder control (oops) and sometimes their back legs don't work right. Healthy ones born with tails get them docked anyway so they look right.

There's a special place in hell for people who like cats with folded ears. The floppy ears are from a deformity in the cartilage which also (guess what) affects the cartilage in all their joints, leading to crippling arthritis. Worse, of course in homozygous victims, but heterozygous ones are still universally affected, just not as crippled.

There is zero reason to breed animals with traits that adversely affect their health. There is zero reason to eliminate "wrong colors" or "mismarks" from the breeding pool (Friesian horses) when the pool is already so inbred that dwarfism and dystocia are just business as usual.

None of these traits give animals any legitimate advantage in their "jobs". None of them give the tiniest fuck how pretty they are. A large proportion of them would be incapable of surviving without human intervention.

But keep on breeding those smashed n slammed toadline microbullies, folks, and flogging frozen dog jizz so the sire who died at 1.5 years old can continue to make his mark on this exciting new breed.


Did I mention I fucking hate animal breeders?
 
Genetic traits are fun.
I know very little about large animals so I appreciate the additions, and also agree with everything else you've said. I actually wrote about/shared a decent chunk of information earlier in the thread detailing the issues with "dwarf" cat breeds, the merle and fluffy mutations in Frenchies, and a bit about Lykoi cats as well.

I don't necessarily hate all animal breeders, there are ethical breeders who care a lot about the actual history of their chosen breed and specifically breed for health, historical accuracy to the lineage of the breed, and for specific jobs. But I would definitely wager that the current state of animal breeding is mostly unethical, most of these people only care about the money involved and it's ruining these animals. We've lost a lot of cat and dog breeds over the years, either by breeders losing interest or by essentially inbreeding out integral characteristics and traits that turn the breed into something completely different (e.g the Shar-Pei, "extreme" Maine Coon cats, English Bulldogs, etc.)
 
Halter horses in QHs and Arabs are *not* being used for anything else other than halter or maybe showmanship. Especially not with how extreme the look halter judges want. The breeding lines for halter and other types of show/work have very little crossover. The biggest money on the QH side of things is in cutting. To showcase how different and extreme halter arabs are from other proper lines:

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An example of an Egyptian Arabian.
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A Shagya Arabian.
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A Polish Arabian.
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A crabbet type.

None of these have the artificial dish or too small nose. It's also important to note that their large wideset eyes, protruding forehead, and smaller muzzle can sometimes appear to look "extreme" but there isn't anything wrong. It's the large forehead (the "jibbah") that mostly creates the look.

I won't rehash pictures of the fucked up ones. But here is a picture of a heinous halter QH:

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Notice how they often have huge cheeks and the too small feet. It is exactly comparable to how extreme body builders look as compared to actual athletes.

And for reference:

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Shining Spark
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Handmade Hondo

Outside ranching lines any QH is going to have a lot of TB blood because of the appendix (QH x TB) being allowed into the breeding registry but those are concentrated in those who want to show in more English disciplines and the racers. QHs are supposed to be stout but like with the Arabs a trait gets taken to it's extremes when showing only for "look". QHs and Paints and are also pretty much the same breed. Which is why there's crossover in the registries. I don't know about Arabian shows but halter isn't the most popular and wanes with interest as time goes on. The most popular in AQHA are all classes you need to ride. And halter horses aren't used for riding.
 
Redditor finds a smashed and slammed nugget
It's very sad but it's important to see. These animals are completely disposable to the people breeding them and often are to the people buying them as well. If they cost more to care for than either the buyer or seller thinks they're worth, they're just dumped and sometimes killed. Getting health insurance on these dogs is also next to impossible because of the number of congenital deformities they have, which are pre-existing conditions.
Issues like soft palate deformities, megaesophagous, severe hernias, spinal deformities, eyelid deformities, etc are overwhelmingly common with these dogs and often require extensive testing and major surgeries with specialists to correct, and those are going to cost far more than the dog itself did. The "health warranties" some of these breeders give to customers only mean they'll take the puppy back and give them another one, no refunds.
 
Meanwhile breeders are studding out double-merle dogs that are eyeless and deaf, and almost pure white, because OF COURSE THEY ARE, so you'll always get merle pups.
This shit should be a felony on the level of dogfighting and anyone who does this shit should be permanently barred from anything to do with animals. Also they should be publicly flogged.
 
This shit should be a felony on the level of dogfighting and anyone who does this shit should be permanently barred from anything to do with animals. Also they should be publicly flogged.
There is some public pearl clutching over the ethics of these double merle studs. The breeders' pages tend not to mention the lack of eyes though. There are enough people buying merle jizz to keep these dogs going rather than euthanized at birth as the genetic cripples they are.

Single merles aren't universally healthy as far as eyes and ears go, but pretty so who cares. Pic upthread of a dumped bully is a merle btw.

Pigment is really important in neural development. The more white, the more risk. Dogs, cats, horses, hamsters, guinea pigs and probably other "fancy" species have plenty of examples.

Any gene that fucks with pigment distribution is risky, with the possible exception of things like palomino in horses and blue in cats which lighten pigment but do not themselves add white. But they fuck dogs up. Blue dogs frequently have associated skin problems. Albino mutations are shitty too and absolutely are not just all white animals with pink eyes.

The optical pathways are fucked (crosseyed siamese cats) or they are hypersensitive to light and squint all the time ("white" dobermans), they're nearly blind (albino humans), etc. It's a stupid thing to breed for but hey they're cute. Animals in the wild have black skin and dark eyes because those ones survive and reproduce. Look what happens to fair skinned humans who stay out in the sun too long. But who doesn't love redheads and blondes, right? Even human sexual selection is fucking stupid.

Edit: accidentally a a word
 
Even human sexual selection is fucking stupid.
Humans are incredibly attracted to blue eyes even though they're strongly associated with negative traits like alcoholism (lighter eyes in general are correlated with it but blue eyes markedly so).

My retarded half-assed take is that since blue eyes are a recessive trait, if you have blue eyes, your mate has blue eyes, and your offspring have blue eyes, you can be pretty sure you weren't cucked and actually are raising your own offspring. This is evo psych bullshit, but it makes sense, doesn't it?

Also those blue eyes are pretty.
 
Europeans being pale is an evolutionary response to living in colder, less sunny places where people are covered up most of the time, I was told. Need less pigment to get the vitamin D necessary to prevent rickets or whatever*. Same reason why women in any given ethnicity are on average paler than the men in the same demographic - women need more sun exposure for that vitamin. No, I will not be double-checking myself before hitting "post reply".

*Edit: I should say, melanin shields the skin from too much sun, but still lets in some because your body needs at least that much. Less sun/less intense sun = less protection needed (until your dumbass descendents move to Mesa and think sunscreen is for pussies).
 
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Some white spotting genes are almost always associated with deafness. In fact, genes that add white to the coat are disproportionally likely to cause developmental problems,
It’s because the pigment cells are derived from the neural crest, and that cell lineage and the ones who descend from them tend to be more specialised cells. cells in the inner ear are derived from neural crest, which is why many white cats are deaf and these neural crest cells, who h migrate all over, contribute to all sorts of structures
blue eyes even though they're strongly associated with negative traits like alcoholism (lighter eyes in general are correlated with it but blue eyes markedly so).
Is that so? That’s interesting, might go have a read about that
 
It’s because the pigment cells are derived from the neural crest, and that cell lineage and the ones who descend from them tend to be more specialised cells. cells in the inner ear are derived from neural crest, which is why many white cats are deaf and these neural crest cells, who h migrate all over, contribute to all sorts of structures

Is that so? That’s interesting, might go have a read about that
Hmm, I had a sort of peripheral connection to oriental shorthair rescue around the turn of the century when I acquired my first OSH which piqued some autistic interest in the breed.

A variant of the breed is the blue eyed white or BEW. There is also the OEW or odd eyed white. The variables in cat coat color were beyond my comprehension except for the reason that BEWs aren’t ever deaf is because they aren’t actually white. They’re white pointed Siamese except if 2 BEW cats mate then they might throw a truly white and potentially deaf kitten.

Therefore ethical (haha) breeders never (haha) breed poor genetic combinations. My first OSH was from an owner death where the breeder refused to collect her cats when the family didn’t want them. She promised to send me poor Melly’s birth date by email but couldn’t be bothered. Yes she’s still breeding.

One of the stranger things I learned about OEWs not of the white pointed variety is that a blue eye other eyed cat is typically deaf on only the blue eyed side.
 
One of the stranger things I learned about OEWs not of the white pointed variety is that a blue eye other eyed cat is typically deaf on only the blue eyed side.
Yeah, the cells fail to migrate fully in that side and so you get deafness in that ear. Cat genetics are really fascinating
Are there any ‘proper’ breeds of cats that are very healthy? I think the average British shorthair is ok,
 
Are there any ‘proper’ breeds of cats that are very healthy?
The problem purebreds face are the same as any other living thing with a limited gene pool. It's hard to measure "health" across the board, which I know you know, but heart disease is a surprising recurring issue with nearly every breed of purebred cat. There have been various studies carried out that show every single purebred they tested was more susceptible to developing diseases, of nearly every kind, than random-bred cats.

That's not to say there aren't purebred cats that are healthy and robust, there are plenty. This is where it's down to the breeder to do their due diligence with thorough medical and genetic testing and the owner to make sure they have that information and can verify it with a veterinarian and/or a specialist.
 
That's not to say there aren't purebred cats that are healthy and robust,
I ask because my beloved cat is rather elderly. We got him from a non breeder source and have dealt with his multiple health issues and vet bills for years (which we do gladly, we love him but it’s an expense I’d like to try to avoid.) Id be happy to shell out for a couple of purebred kittens once he finally goes to the big sunbeam in the sky, and I don’t trust our local cat rescue much.
 
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