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- Aug 28, 2015
I believe this refers to the reversion-on-sale clause.
Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Association (SFWA) - Nerds protecting nonces
- Thread starter Meat Target
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- Nov 15, 2016
It isn't. JDA has walked it back. It only applies if Baen declares bankruptcy, apparently. He wrote another article, too.
Baen Books Author Larry Correia Announces Going Fully Independent In Reaction To Ark Press News While Others Circle The Corporate Wagons
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- Jan 31, 2020
I would have to see a Baen contract. I work for the competition, and every publisher does it a little differently.
There is one odd thing I've noticed: compared to other publishers, Baen reverts rights back to the family or estate much more frequently than other publishers. Even for big names like Fred Saberhagan or David Drake.
For comparison, for all the complaints of dead white guys, Tor isn't letting go of Robert Jordan or Terry Goodkind's back catalogs unless they're forced to at gunpoint.
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California Newt
kiwifarms.net
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- Feb 7, 2024
There's almost no such thing as a good gay character.
The only example I can even think of where it was a good decision was with the Penguin's character in the "Gotham" TV show. I'll explain, and use the example to show the more broad point:
In "Gotham", the Penguin is a frail, conniving, jealous, insecure, prideful, and angry criminal who's always trying to claw his way to the top of the organized crime world. It's very fun to watch his underhanded, scheming attempts to get control and revenge over the world that he sees as having humiliated him.
The Riddler, in this show, starts off as a friendly but lonely man with apparent Asperger's working forensics in the Gotham Police Department. Nobody likes him or really respects him, and he has an arc that's similar to Arthur Fleck's in the movie "Joker"; he snaps after killing his simp-object's abusive boyfriend, and the feeling of power gives him the confidence he needs to start being more assertive and improving socially—at the same time as his more violent and arrogant "Riddler" persona progressively takes over. You want to see him improve, and you're rooting for him to do so as he slowly climbs out of his autism. You know he's gonna go off the deep end, though—he's a good tragic character.
The two meet and hit it off, and start to develop a friendship after working together. Neither character had really had a friend before.
It's at this point that they make the Penguin gay, which was a fantastic choice. He interprets his connection to the Riddler romantically, and it's one-sided in the best way; you kind of get the impression that the Riddler would murder anyone who tried to emasculate him at this point in his arc, and you also get the impression that he'd feel betrayed. A big part of his character has been his inability to form normal male relationships (with people like his peers in Gotham PD), which he thought he'd finally found in the Penguin.
This leaves the Penguin in a position where he's jealous of the Riddler's girlfriend, feels emasculated (due to his choice to interpret his feelings as romantic), and is angry and resentful at the world in general for humiliating him. It puts him in a psychological situation that's a lot like where we found him, as a non-name criminal trying to back-stab and scheme his way up the ladder of the underworld. It's the perfect set-up for "Gotham" Penguin-kino.
That's the only example I can think of of homosexuality being used well in a story: it amplified everything about the character in question that made them entertaining in the first place. Also—and this is maybe more important—it negatively impacted the character: it accentuated his flaws, and had consequences for him in the story.
The worst thing they could've done, for example, would be to make the Riddler gay and treat it like a positive thing for him: it'd undermine the point of his character, and it'd pre-emptively cauterize any potential character development relating to his confidence and ability to connect to other people in a normal way.
Wind and Truth spoiler:
This is what I hate so much about making the betamale Renarin gay; it sends a horrible message: "Autistic? Don't improve—take the blackpill; wear the programmer socks."
It's just bleak—it's demoralization.
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California Newt
kiwifarms.net
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If you're referring to my post, I've never watched the Sopranos.
I'd have pulled an example from Blues Clues, if there was one. Good writing is good writing.
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- Jan 3, 2017
I haven't watched Gotham past the first season, but your description sounds like it was better done than the Sopranos' actual gay storyline.
California Newt
kiwifarms.net
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I think they might have done it by accident, but with some of their decisions I'm not sure. I haven't really seen past the second season of Gotham. Their handling of gay characters in the first two seasons was interesting, especially as season one moved into season two.
You'll remember Jim Gordon's awful, unbearable girlfriend (or fiancé; I don't remember)? Remember how she came out as bisexual and there was a boring pseudo-plotline about it? In the second season they straight up just made her an insane murderer, and she was great from that point on. They made the unbearable psycho girlfriend into an actual psycho—I have to imagine they played off of how much people hated the character.
Bold of them to make all gay characters unhinged brutal murderers; Hazbin Hotel must have taken notes.
From what I understand of the rest of the show, the Riddler and Penguin develop an on-and-off team-up/bitter rivalry after the "psycho unrequited gay lover" plotline ends with the Riddler nearly killing the Penguin. They're consistently fun.
There's a cringey scene later on where the Riddler seems to question himself, but I assume that's a woman-writer-moment or something. The second season is good, at least.
I think that it's theoretically possible to use "alternative" sexualities to explore human nature and do good character development, but you're not gonna get that under the "representation" mindset. That mindset is predicated on obfuscating human nature in the service of shallow unequivocal "validation".
You won't be allowed to ask how a gay relationship actually helps two men understand each other better than they would otherwise, for example. A man understands women better by having relationships with women, but there's no male relationship deeper than watching bigfoot videos with the squad and arguing over whether it's CGI. That's when men are their truest selves.
Is that true? I think so—but in "representation" media, you won't even be allowed to explore the question.
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- Apr 10, 2021
I never got the feeling Penguin was gay, just incredibly damaged and because Riddler was the only other person apart from his parents to care for him, he went super nutty. I remember the gay actor who played Penguin also said he wasn't gay, just obsessed. But your point stands, Gotham was pretty outrageous and fun after the first dozen episodes when they leaned into the crazy. It's a shame they couldn't call Jerome the Joker when he clearly was.
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- Feb 11, 2017
You shouldn't take some guy's schizo blog post seriously.
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- Jul 30, 2017
Not sure of the context but that may as well be the motto of the kiwifarms.
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- Feb 11, 2017
The thing about Baen that was immediately refuted by Larry Correia
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- Nov 15, 2016
Kinda refuted. He said the LitRPG series he's starting was suggested to him by somebody at the new publisher -- meaning it was never shopped to Baen -- and I see no reason not to believe him. So JDA got that wrong as well.
However, Correia said nothing about the layoffs, the people joining Thiel's new publishing house from Baen, and the general state of Baen books financially. Would've liked to hear his thought on Rucchio going to Baen and then leaving, etc. Also his claims about writing for other publishers was a bit fatuous in the sense that the ones he wrote for (e.g. Regnery, which does right wing politics) don't compete head to head with Baen in the same market for shelf space, authors or readers. Thiel's new endeavor definitely will. He should acknowledge at least that much.
He possibly doesn't consider it his place to do so, and that's fair, but somebody at Baen should be doing something on the PR front, that much seems obvious. The seem like a company very much adrift at the moment, even if they're not quite the sinking ship I kind of still think they might be.
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- Feb 11, 2017
Baen is doing fine. They occasionally get smeared by midwits because they let le ebil conservative authors publish with them. That guy just posted a bunch of bullshit with no evidence and I'm supposed to take it seriously?
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- Jan 31, 2020
That's the thing that gets me... he really didn't.
By Larry Correia standards, his statement was fairly middle of the road. Diplomatic and not overly committed. And nothing he said is a direct refutation of claims about Baen's stability, or Ark poaching thier staff.
That Baen is losing multiple series' from Larry Correia, the company's bestselling author, and by far the most important man to please since David Weber is in his 70s and in poor health, to rival publishers IS a sign of trouble. As are layoffs, staff poachings, and selling other authors.
Imagine if say, Brandon Sanderson, in under a year, announced a new series each with Orbit and Harper Voyager. People would be asking just what went wrong at Tor.
Same deal applies. There really isn't a good time for a publisher to lose staff and marquee authors.
I mean, if the article didn't literally spell out that Baen laid off the PR guy, the slap dash denials from several Baen authors sort of makes that clear.
As I said above, and I take no joy in this as a fan of Baen going back to the early days, there isn't really a good way to spin losing authors and staff like this. Especially for a (by industry standards) smaller publisher like Baen.
Hell, that a dozen authors are willing to air company dirty laundry to Jon Del Aroz of all people speaks of a lack of confidence among the Baen authors.
The only debate is if it's just an ugly black eye or knocked Baen to the mat.
Even Larry's statement is more "This is good for me!", because it is. But it's awful for Baen, merely a matter of how much.
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- Feb 24, 2024
Hi there, been awhile!
Correct, Larry didn't actually address anything I said. None of the really bizarrely personal attacks on me have addressed any of the substance of the article which is really weird.
He's even attacking fans about it then going full sperg:
I confirmed all the meat of the topic: Thiel attempt at purchase, the turning down of Larry, Ark Press forming and Thiel group investment. Even Butler confirmed the investment group as you can read from his direct quote in my original post.
I'm still trying to figure out why the personal vitriol about all of this. I get I wasn't "supposed to find out" but I did, it's out, it was going to come out at some point anyway. They'd be better off if they just worked with me as a friendly journalist who actually wants to see them succeed than attempt to torpedo me (which isn't working very well given the subscriber stats that have been jumping since Larry's personal attacks).
Is anyone a SFWA member that can DM me or email me and tell me what this is about?
Correct, Larry didn't actually address anything I said. None of the really bizarrely personal attacks on me have addressed any of the substance of the article which is really weird.
He's even attacking fans about it then going full sperg:
I confirmed all the meat of the topic: Thiel attempt at purchase, the turning down of Larry, Ark Press forming and Thiel group investment. Even Butler confirmed the investment group as you can read from his direct quote in my original post.
I'm still trying to figure out why the personal vitriol about all of this. I get I wasn't "supposed to find out" but I did, it's out, it was going to come out at some point anyway. They'd be better off if they just worked with me as a friendly journalist who actually wants to see them succeed than attempt to torpedo me (which isn't working very well given the subscriber stats that have been jumping since Larry's personal attacks).
Is anyone a SFWA member that can DM me or email me and tell me what this is about?
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- Nov 15, 2016
Ironic use of "midwits" in the sense that JDA seems to be working with Vox Day -- self proclaimed inventor of the term -- in some way. Day certainly quotes JDA's blog often enough.
Beyond that, hope you're right. B/c they're sure not acting like everything's fine.
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- Mar 4, 2019
Gotham is from 2014. The one people are comparing to The Sopranos is The Penguin.
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- Jan 31, 2020
That actually cuts to the quick nicely.
For all the talk things are fine, it's a week later and Baen is still in panic mode.
The saving grace ironically is, no disrespect @Fandom Pulse , is a lot of the genre press that would LOVE to twist the knife in Baen's back won't touch a story JDA broke first... unless Baen authors keep panicking like this.
I hope it's wrong. I want the house Jim Baen built to outlive us all.
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- Aug 28, 2015
For all the discussion of what's going on, I'm wondering why. Does Thiel have some preexisting love of sci-fi? Else why is he coming into shake the ant farm?