Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Coolio55]

you nocoder (should be "nigger in field", but storing the field in nigger when it's from object named field is just too dedicated to the bit to be comprehensible)

But then you have to actually instance the object which can cause side effects. The object can freely create fields at runtime as well.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

I suppose it may have been rude to write my last post here. I should try to be more considerate and keep it in the programming thread.

what's so bad about C?

An analysis of the flaw reports for these programs tells the reader a story of men making the same mistakes repeatedly. Use after free, buffer overflow, basic type confusion, forever.

It's used by people he doesn't like to do things that don't agree with what he was taught in university.

No, if I'd learned anything about programming in a formal setting, I'd have been doomed to see nothing wrong with this unacceptable state of affairs.

C++

That's even worse. People who like that language have to be either psychotic or just stupid. It's probably the worst, certainly the most complicated, language seriously used for anything. Government contractors like it because delivering a flawed program lets them charge for impotent corrections.

 

[Goose the Redeemer]

An analysis of the flaw reports for these programs tells the reader a story of men making the same mistakes repeatedly.

So, what's so bad about C? Is it really the fault of the tool if the user is incompetent? As the saying goes, show me a fool-proof solution and I will bring you a bigger fool.

There is an idea that I have not heard in quite a while; "You don't need to understand mathematics in order to do computer programming". This is a mistake. Over the years I have come to realise that a lot of these problems can be easily solved by having actual standards (i.e. even a basic understanding of the mathematics beneath programming) and not just letting any old monkey with a typewriter shit code into a box and call themselves a programmer.

To relate this to the topic: These commie types that infest open source "communities" often speak about "democratising" programming by making languages and environments that don't require any level of competency from the programmer, and fiercely pushing back against anything that they perceive as "gate keeping" (i.e. having standards), thus, the fate of "open source".

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

So, what's so bad about C? Is it really the fault of the tool if the user is incompetent?

When almost every user is "incompetent" with the tool, then yes, it's the tool's fault.

As the saying goes, show me a fool-proof solution and I will bring you a bigger fool.

I simply believe that, as the computer is a tool for automation, programming should also be automated to the fullest extent possible.

There is an idea that I have not heard in quite a while; "You don't need to understand mathematics in order to do computer programming". This is a mistake.

I tried explaining this to some of the same people, only for them to laugh at the notion. Some people consider programming to be engineering, which it is in a sense, but with none of the expectations of real engineering. Real engineers don't get to blame their tools, they just don't use shitty tools. Do engineers try to excuse bridge failure by saying the users of the tools were incompetent?

Over the years I have come to realise that a lot of these problems can be easily solved by having actual standards (i.e. even a basic understanding of the mathematics beneath programming) and not just letting any old monkey with a typewriter shit code into a box and call themselves a programmer.

I don't know how this problem will be solved, now that people who should know better have been led to believe computer programs can't ever reach perfection. These days, governments and businesses are content to use the monkey shit too.

These commie types that infest open source "communities" often speak about "democratising" programming by making languages and environments that don't require any level of competency from the programmer, and fiercely pushing back against anything that they perceive as "gate keeping" (i.e. having standards), thus, the fate of "open source".

While I agree in a sense, programming is unnecessarily complicated. Alan Kay has small children writing massively parallel programs that work, whereas the average C++ language jockey starts to sweat after, what, four threads of execution?

 

[Marvin]

So, what's so bad about C? Is it really the fault of the tool if the user is incompetent? As the saying goes, show me a fool-proof solution and I will bring you a bigger fool.

There's something to be said about the existence of tools that are poorly designed and that they disproportionally snap up even extremely experienced users in common pitfalls.

You can blame user error if you want, but if all you're doing is regularly making excuses for the design flaws in the tool, what purpose does that serve?

Like if we were talking a mechanical tool with a hinky kill switch or safety, sure, you'd try to responsibly train any users to engage it properly and not fuck it up. But if it's poorly designed that puts an unnecessary burden on users, then why deal with it to begin with?

 

[jONALD]

So what you're REALLY saying is that everyone should have learned ((((((Common Lisp)))))) instead?

 

[Jones Kaczynski]

Like if we were talking a mechanical tool with a hinky kill switch or safety, sure, you'd try to responsibly train any users to engage it properly and not fuck it up. But if it's poorly designed that puts an unnecessary burden on users, then why deal with it to begin with?

On one side. You got a machine that has a faulty kill switch that gets activated if the machine gets moved around a lot.
On the other side. You got a retard, who was taught to not sit on top of the switch since that makes the machine explode, and still sits on top of it.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

On one side. You got a machine that has a faulty kill switch that gets activated if the machine gets moved around a lot.
On the other side. You got a retard, who was taught to not sit on top of the switch since that makes the machine explode, and still sits on top of it.

What if we had someone who wasn't retarded use a tool that wasn't broken?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

What if we had someone who wasn't retarded use a tool that wasn't broken?

Hard to say. We don't really have any precedent.

 

[analrapist]

someone who wasn't retarded

big if true

 

[Eternal Spirit of Light]

If C (and C++) isn't a good language, what is?

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

If C (and C++) isn't a good language, what is?

American.

I like Python, it's lovely to read and write for the most part.

 

[Max Weber]

If C (and C++) isn't a good language, what is?

HolyC.

 

[Eternal Spirit of Light]

HolyC.

Apart from the obvious I mean.

 

[analrapist]

https://bugs.gentoo.org/948384 - it's a bit premature to say absolutely, but Wayland niggers are trying really hard to make it a pain in the ass to continue to use X. This might just be an unintended change by Wayland niggers who are too incompetent to test elsewhere, but it's a concerning datum.

Chromium won't compile without Wayland.

 

[AmpleApricots]

I like Forth.

 

[CryptoHermit]

If C (and C++) isn't a good language, what is?

I use Lua personally.

 

[Nobody Important]

For those not double dipping on Hector's thread, in the past eight hours or so Hector has been reamed out by LKML regulars for his usual shit, then by Linus himself for the bitchfit he threw in response, deleted his Mastodon account, and finally ragequit as a kernel maintainer.

 

[The Real Slim Shady]

When almost every user is "incompetent" with the tool, then yes, it's the tool's fault.

heard that a million times, it's just boring now. You can avoid all these bugs if you plan your program well and follow good practices (which are valid for any programming language btw), and for the ones you still omit, there is instrumentation that detects them, in all forms and sizes, from valgrind to fuzzers to god knows what. You can automate that so it runs every time you run make, if you wish.

Spoiler: programming sperging

Programming is difficult. C and C++ are the lowest level high level programming languages. They are "hard" because programming on that level requires a good understanding of how the machine works. Most people don't program in C, or do it sloppily, because higher level languages solve most of their problems. They may have been taught C or C++ (usually as "C with classes") in the first semester of CS and then taught some other domain specific languages.

The other languages like Lua, Java, all the EczemaScripts, Python and so on are very forgiving. They hide the nasty stuff, this works good for a lot of applications, but lets sloppy programmers write working but sloppy code. It will never be fast, or efficient, but it will work and can be maintained by a CS undergrad or a person after a programming bootcamp. This is one of the reasons you have web APIs returning errors encoded as JSON in a HTTP 200 OK response.

With C you don't get that. C is a spartan language. C will blow up in your face and shit all over your terminal if you print an unterminated string or invalid pointer. C will let you overwrite the return address on stack and execute the user input because that's what the machine does. C has "undefined behavior" as a means of saying "We do not want to specify what happens next, because you fucked something earlier". If you don't like it, use a different programming language, like Java, .NET or Rust. But you have to pay the price of the conveinience of not having to worry about how the machine works.

 

[Eternal Spirit of Light]

C++ (usually as "C with classes")

What is C++ even? It doesn't seem to add much to C, what's even the point of using it? (Not that I've ever used it though.)