Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Abowaffen]

Crimea is a tough one because of how its control transferred. Russia has an extremely strong claim to it on historical grounds.

Russia has zero claim to Crimea. Absolutely none. They recognized the land as belonging to Ukraine in '92.

the war has to stop.

Handing the war off to their children to fight when Putin rebuilds his army and tries again in 10 years is unacceptable. There must be an outside guarantee. If not NATO membership, then something equivalent.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

People trying to make it seem like Crimea is happy with how this war has been going are tourists that haven't paid attention once for 3 years.

I heard about the chaos in ukraine BEFORE putin entered and this thing became a well known mess. Hell long before anyone gave 2 shits I heard reports of the civil war and nobody gave a fuck.

And I don't think normal people are EVER happy in a war. Thats how war is, shells going off / being launched near your home is NEVER pleasant.

"pro-Russian population" is people who have lived in the region for less than a century

UKRAINE is less than a century old so this is a shitty point. They lived there since it was formed by and large, and thats why it was how it was, many people, despite happy to see the USSR cease, still viewed themselves as "russians", and didn't like the new ukraine govt taking over roughly 9 years ago I think?

But yeah, this is a poor argument, a century is a pretty good amount of time, and since the country and govt itself is younger than that, it doesn't seem like a real point.

 

[No. 7 cat]

Note that spineless lickspittle and obese conman fetishist JD Vance will co-lead the delegation.
It seems Kellogg is out for good?

Trump literally said he doesn't envisage him as his successor, so I suppose he needs something to do, to get away from his wife's children (he actually called them that for some odd reason). However seriously, Gen Kellog would never have the task of formally leading high level negotiations as a political principal, only handling the less public preparations.



source

Zelensky seems content with POTUS and prepared for developments. Putin is hardly going to leave Crimea now, which Hegseth was realistic enough to say, but a process will be underway to disengage snowy Nigeria from Ukraine and Europe. Leave them to their HIV and buggery. Any country with a large Russian population has a very high incidence of HIV across all age groups.

I heard about the chaos in ukraine BEFORE putin entered and this thing became a well known mess. Hell long before anyone gave 2 shits I heard reports of the civil war and nobody gave a fuck.

And I don't think normal people are EVER happy in a war. Thats how war is, shells going off / being launched near your home is NEVER pleasant.

UKRAINE is less than a century old so this is a shitty point. They lived there since it was formed by and large, and thats why it was how it was, many people, despite happy to see the USSR cease, still viewed themselves as "russians", and didn't like the new ukraine govt taking over roughly 9 years ago I think?

But yeah, this is a poor argument, a century is a pretty good amount of time, and since the country and govt itself is younger than that, it doesn't seem like a real point.

You should educate yourself. The Ukrainian People's Republic emerged after 1917 with borders matching the actual area of Ukrainian culture before Stalin and his Russification attentuated that. Kursk and Kuban are historically Ukrainian. In fact the territories of the Hetmanate (1647-1764) that the Tsars later incorporated with ever shrinking levels of autonomy were labelled Ukrainia even on the old map Putin thought didn't show Ukraine. Moscow didn't exist for centuries while Kyiv thrived. Moscow was just a slave mart and tax collection depot for the Golden Horde when it appear. Russia only started using the name Russia instead of Moscovy in the seventeenth century. The Russian flag was a creation of filicide and clericide Peter II who just swapped around the bars of the Dutch flag. Most Ukrainians did not view themselves as Russians even if most spoke Russian, albeit in accents or dialects like Odessky yazyk. Except under Stalin, the Soviet Union at least recognised the status of Ukrainian language and culture in an attenuated form. Do you see yourself as English and British in speaking that language? Perhaps Starmer could start an SMO with the help of Mark Carney of Canada to rescue Anglophile Americans from Anglophobic Americans. There is no 'pro Russian' population. The entire pretext is a bad KGB fake. Putin's war has destroyed any commonality.

Hopefully the kidnapped children are at least returned, tho that'll be hard as no records were kept deliberately. Some have already died from abuse.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Russia has zero claim to Crimea. Absolutely none. They recognized the land as belonging to Ukraine in '92.

That doesn't matter. Do you really think anybody on the Russian side cares about treaties made by Gorbachev/Yeltsin?

I don't want this war to end by ceding an inch of territory to Russia, but this is a very dangerous point when it comes to negotiating a peace.

 

[Null]

Have you reflected on the fact that white men being willing to slaughter each other in such numbers maybe means your worldview is completely retarded?

no? have you been to a country that doesn't have a majority whites or east asians? i have. you don't want to live there.

 

[Abowaffen]

That doesn't matter. Do you really think anybody on the Russian side cares about treaties made by Gorbachev/Yeltsin?

I don't want this war to end by ceding an inch of territory to Russia, but this is a very dangerous point when it comes to negotiating a peace.

My point is land claims on "historical grounds" mean nothing. Every country in Europe has had predecessor states that controlled land in every one of its current-day neighbors.

 

[No. 7 cat]

My point is land claims on "historical grounds" mean nothing. Every country in Europe has had predecessor states that controlled land in every one of its current-day neighbors.

Well if they can be asserted forcefully. All 'grounds' are pretexts. Russia has shattered repeatedly throughout history and given its terrible demographics are now catastrophic, a likely nuclear Ukraine just has to wait.

Have you reflected on the fact that white men being willing to slaughter each other in such numbers maybe means your worldview is completely retarded?

The white man does often like killing other white men. The Great War saw kingdom and empires whose monarchs were variously first cousins fight (Germany and UK) and betray (UK and Russia) each other. WW2 underlined that point.

There is also the general point that while Russians are mostly ethnically white, they are culturally quite Asiatic preferring to live under despots and in dirty homes with carpets on the walls like their former Mongol masters.

 

[ReasonablyRetarded]

Best hopium outcome would be some peace being signed with NATO membership included. Other same-level hopium outcome would be that within the next 2-3 years Putin & his ideologically closest aligned staffers falling over dead.

Because if not, you can damn well count on ziggerstan licking their wounds & re-invading within the next 5-10 years.
And if that happens, then Ukraine might not be so blessed with z-tard incompetence & corruption, since I'm guessing either way, quietly, heads will roll within the russian MoD & covertly reforms will be made after peace would be signed.

Spoiler: "White" Russians sperging

It's cute to see Russians as white in this "White race" optic view, but especially in these times, let me paint you a picture: If you were on fire in the middle of red square, sure people would come to help.
If you were on fire in red square & the people springing up to help get told "Hey that's a Westerner", a not insignificant amount of them would suddenly go "I'm apolitical" & consequently turn away and let you burn.
Another group might still help (the group that largely already left russia).
A whole different not insignificant group would go searching for gasoline to pour over you.

You can ask that retarded American that thought he'd be le zased heccin' super warrior & then got torture-raped to death by his oh so bazed alcoholic junkie comrades about that. There's decent & good Russians for sure.
The problem is that a not insignificant amount of them don't have that same viewpoint of "This war is a shame because they're also white".
All they see is "Non-Russian" or just "Western" and think less of you(that's putting it lightly) based off of that. Everything else doesn't matter. I agree that the war is a huge shame, but I am not under the illusion that it's a "muh brother wars". That is a position you can only fairly take if you're at a surface level understanding of the area OR if you're viewing it from a very specific and fairly niche lens.
Again, not all Russians etc, but enough to make it a problem.

 

[Abowaffen]

 

[No. 7 cat]

Suchomimus posts a WarTranslated vid of the might forces of the world's 2nd most powerful army attacking the Hohols. At least they achieve their dream of dying for the KGB kisser of little boy's belly buttons.

 

[Snekposter]

UKRAINE is less than a century old so this is a shitty point. They lived there since it was formed by and large, and thats why it was how it was, many people, despite happy to see the USSR cease, still viewed themselves as "russians", and didn't like the new ukraine govt taking over roughly 9 years ago I think?

Na, in 1917 when Russia collapsed you had the Ukrainian People's Republic crop up based around Kiev and a West Ukrainian People's Republic in Galicia, both using the blue and yellow flag but in different shades, and they quickly unifed until the western part broke free after Kiev tried to trade them to the Poles for an alliance against the USSR.

Hmm, any of that look familiar?

Leaving the idea of a specific Ukrainian national identity aside, historically there were more than a few Russian thinkers who believed that Southern Russia (aka Ukraine) was culturally and historiographically distinct from Northern Russia.

Which when you look at the fact that Moscow gleefully adopted Mongolian culture and customs (including some incredibly brutal penal codes such as widespread torture and execution) following their conquest and appointment as the Mongols' chief tribute collectors over the rest of the conquered Rus whereas Kiev tried to maintain the Westernization it had slowly begun thanks to trade and contact with the Byzantines... yeah.

they are culturally quite Asiatic

Patton had some especially choice words, even by his standards, for the Russian people.

The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.

All they see is "Non-Russian" or just "Western" and think less of you(that's putting it lightly) based off of that.

For whatever demented reason, the Russians consider Slavs the peak of human existence and that Russians are the greatest of all among the Slavs.

 

[Gog & Magog]

"Anti-Vatnik Thread"
I prefer the Pro-Western label myself.

 

[AFisting]

one of the dumbest fucking wars ever with a million white men dead

Dearest feeder chiming in with the peak magatard hot take. On par with other bangers such as random truck runs over dozens of people, stupid war is happening apparently.

Not to be outdone, other prolific magatards itt have also been hard at work. Coming up with more hot takes such as eurocucks, fucking eurocucks, it's all the fault of the fucking eurocucks. As if the entire crop of EU elites formed in a vacuum, irrespective of Europe's century long subjugation to our benevolent American saviors.

It doesn't take much for all pretense of American dindu nuffin-ism to be brushed aside with a vengeance though. Just a small EU nation like Ukraine hinting in the direction of pursuing their own independent nuclear program.

It's all so tiresome. Having to deal with Americans in any capacity, that is.

 

[Null]

Having to deal with Americans in any capacity, that is.

This is an American website on an American planet. Feel free to grab a cold war era kalashnikov out of the mud and put it to your chin you assmangled freak.

 

[AFisting]

This is an American website on an American planet. Feel free to grab a cold war era kalashnikov out of the mud and put it to your chin you assmangled freak.

Say it to my face the next time you're in Europe, faggot.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Say it to my face the next time you're in Europe, faggot.

Say hi to Icarus on your way out...

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Well it IS a stupid war. It was a stupid decision to invade Ukraine, for what ultimately either seems to be petty Imperial ambitions at worst to schizophrenic tier paranoia over NATO suddenly turning into Hitler 2 at best.
Now close to a couple million people are dead or maimed for seemingly entirely preventable reasons.

 

[Snekposter]

Dearest feeder chiming in with the peak magatard hot take. On par with other bangers such as random truck runs over dozens of people, stupid war is happening apparently.

Not to be outdone, other prolific magatards itt have also been hard at work. Coming up with more hot takes such as eurocucks, fucking eurocucks, it's all the fault of the fucking eurocucks. As if the entire crop of EU elites formed in a vacuum, irrespective of Europe's century long subjugation to our benevolent American saviors.

It doesn't take much for all pretense of American dindu nuffin-ism to be brushed aside with a vengeance though. Just a small EU nation like Ukraine hinting in the direction of pursuing their own independent nuclear program.

It's all so tiresome. Having to deal with Americans in any capacity, that is.

Seems like European health care is good for something after all given the top-shelf copium you're clearly on as a means of dealing with your continent's continued and entirely self-inflicted crippling inadequacies.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Well it IS a stupid war. It was a stupid decision to invade Ukraine, for what ultimately either seems to be petty Imperial ambitions at worst to schizophrenic tier paranoia over NATO suddenly turning into Hitler 2 at best.
Now close to a couple million people are dead or maimed for seemingly entirely preventable reasons.

Well you see, it's clearly Zelensky's fault for not immediately dropping his pants and grabbing his ankles when Putin rolled over the border. He didn't follow the rules!

 

[northstar747]

Dearest feeder chiming in with the peak magatard hot take. On par with other bangers such as random truck runs over dozens of people, stupid war is happening apparently.

Lol There many streams where the dear feeder shat on trump for abanding the jan 6th people. He shit on Maga so hard.

Not to be outdone, other prolific magatards itt have also been hard at work. Coming up with more hot takes such as eurocucks, fucking eurocucks, it's all the fault of the fucking eurocucks. As if the entire crop of EU elites formed in a vacuum, irrespective of Europe's century long subjugation to our benevolent American saviors.

Yes America is benevolent cause Europe what ever the fuck that is murdered eachother like niggers for century and after industrialization of applied to war it brough on a wave of misery they had never seeen before.

Then they fucking did it again.

And they will do it again if big daddy uncle sam didnt have his dick out for them to suck

It doesn't take much for all pretense of American dindu nuffin-ism to be brushed aside with a vengeance though. Just a small EU nation like Ukraine hinting in the direction of pursuing their own independent nuclear program.

Ukraine had nukes and gave them up. Looking back it was a bad move.