Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Seethan Ralph]

Trump did his usual thing of talking to an opponent and then saying "this is a very great person, we had lots of great conversation, I think we can make a deal". They're mad (or ecstatic in the case of the putin simps) that he spoke to Putin first and ignore that he also spoke to Zelensky immediately after, or that Z has (at least in public) responded favourably to the events so far.

There is a valid concern that Trump is going to force unreasonable concessions from Ukraine, but this is being blown up into "Trump is betraying Ukraine and going behind Zelensky's back!" by people on both sides, for their own reasons - again ignoring everything that contradicts the claims.

That's basically it. People are malding because Trump doesn't talk right and exaggerates things all the time. They're forgetting that this is the man who negotiated the Abraham accords - a deal everyone involved considered favourable - and was the first US leader to greet little Kim inside North Korea.

And that's it? LMAO take some adderall faggots. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1iog1ho/us_relations_with_europe_will_never_be_the_same/

Reading that shit it seemed like Trump announced Total Ukraine Partition and removing Article 5 from NATO, not that he talked with botox prince pootin and bearded comedian president.

P.S. Null IS RIGHT. This war was totally pointless. Russia could do like US does with Canada, Panama or other cuck kingdoms - tariffs, taxes, embargos to induce their will on Ukraine. Or even better, paint themselves as an actual alternative to EU. Yet they went and invaded them, which made entire Ukraine's national identity extremely anti-Russian at it's core, killed 700k of their troops, made people diversify their fuel imports... for what? For millions of cubic meters of rubble, minefields and scorched earth?

 

[Snekposter]

P.S. Null IS RIGHT. This war was totally pointless. Russia could do like US does with Canada, Panama or other cuck kingdoms - tariffs, taxes, embargos to induce their will on Ukraine. Or even better, paint themselves as an actual alternative to EU. Yet they went and invaded them, which made entire Ukraine's national identity extremely anti-Russian at it's core, killed 700k of their troops, made people diversify their fuel imports... for what? For millions of cubic meters of rubble, minefields and scorched earth?

Hey man, if the GREATEST RUSSIAN OF ALL TIME, a Georgian who overcompensated for his faults by declaring himself the MAN OF STEEL while also killing more Russians than Nazi Germany ever did, felt like teaching those uppity Finns a lesson after they refused his ultimatum, clearly Putin must do the same with Ukraine.

(As bad as the Winter War ended for the Finns, at the start of it Stalin and the rest of the Soviet leadership fully expected it to be nothing more than a two week SMO. Funny how history repeats itself.)

 

[WelperHelper99]

Trump did his usual thing of talking to an opponent and then saying "this is a very great person, we had lots of great conversation, I think we can make a deal". They're mad (or ecstatic in the case of the putin simps) that he spoke to Putin first and ignore that he also spoke to Zelensky immediately after, or that Z has (at least in public) responded favourably to the events so far.

There is a valid concern that Trump is going to force unreasonable concessions from Ukraine, but this is being blown up into "Trump is betraying Ukraine and going behind Zelensky's back!" by people on both sides, for their own reasons - again ignoring everything that contradicts the claims.

That's basically it. People are malding because Trump doesn't talk right and exaggerates things all the time. They're forgetting that this is the man who negotiated the Abraham accords - a deal everyone involved considered favourable - and was the first US leader to greet little Kim inside North Korea.

The hysteria is why I'm not worried. I look at the people involved. All three leaders seem game to make a deal. That'll involve concessions on both sides. It's a question of what concessions Ukraine gets from Russia in return. Likely going to look like North/South Korea tbh. With the promise of hell if the peace is ever broken. Honestly not the worst circumstances.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Russia could do like US does with Canada, Panama or other cuck kingdoms - tariffs, taxes, embargos to induce their will

Trump got the same things Biden did, except Trump whipped up conflict and chaos and torched the relationship between the US and key allies, and harmed the US economy because now many foreign companies diversify their supply chains away from the US and some people boycott US products, damaged NATO deterrence.
A genius negotiator at work.

The same genius who gave Russia a bunch of stuff they wanted before negotiations even started, including prostrating himself before Putin, in return for absolutely nothing.

Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, about 8 hours before Trump wrote Putin a love letter:

Peace through strength, you say? Sometimes, that concept does work—like when it exposes the real balance of power, not some fantasy. Take today in Kiev, for example, after our missiles and drones arrived. Even so, such actions aren’t enough to knock sense into those illegitimate buffoons who, shaking from fear and drug withdrawal, babble nonsense on camera about trading territories. The only cure for them is to feel Russian again—just as the US president advised.

link
They think he is their fool, for good reason.

---

 

[majob]

Hey man, if the GREATEST RUSSIAN OF ALL TIME, a Georgian who overcompensated for his faults by declaring himself the MAN OF STEEL while also killing more Russians than Nazi Germany ever did, felt like teaching those uppity Finns a lesson after they refused his ultimatum, clearly Putin must do the same with Ukraine.

(As bad as the Winter War ended for the Finns, at the start of it Stalin and the rest of the Soviet leadership fully expected it to be nothing more than a two week SMO. Funny how history repeats itself.)

Except the Finns did it alone. Ukies had massive help

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

UK leads major Ukraine Summit and announces £150 million firepower package - GOV.UK

• This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

Norge bidrar med luftvern til Ukraina til en verdi på om lag 1,2 milliarder kroner - regjeringen.no

Norway is contributing air defence to Ukraine worth about NOK 1.2 billion

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

Helsing to produce 6,000 additional strike drones for Ukraine – Helsing

• This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
  This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

 

[majob]

the mutt classic of "Europe" being one country Poland has been sucking your cock since the 90s (they even went to fucking Iraq) just to get labeled as a parasite when it becomes unconvenient, lol

You fags combined most of your nations and land under the EU umbrella, so I'll refer to you as such. Iraq? You act as if we weren't subsidizing you until 2001 for some reason. Iraq was you paying interest on the massive loan we've given you in the form of defense for decades.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Helsing to produce 6,000 additional strike drones for Ukraine – Helsing

Euro-Lancets.

 

[Foltest]

The war was not totally pointless.
It killed a bunch of Russians and showed how fucking inept their army is

 

[Snekposter]

Except the Finns did it alone. Ukies had massive help

Sure, but the basic concept of Russian arrogance remains the same.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Except the Finns did it alone. Ukies had massive help

The help only came after Ukraine totally arsefucked Russia in the opening weeks of the war and showed it was actually capable of putting up a fight. Remember when the map looked like this?



A week or two later it looked like this:



That was without any western aid at all, just whatever soviet-era equipment they had hanging around and a half-reformed army that was still full of soviet-brained commanders and doctrine. The western aid came later and maintained the Ukrainian ability to fight, but there's no arguing Ukraine didn't hold its own before that. Would it have lost without help? Probably. Eventually. But then again, it might not have, because the only military force fighting in Ukraine less capable than the UF was the Russian military.

(screenshots grabbed from lemonde)

 

[Ghostse]

So far Trump's position is to praise Russia and make concessions without getting anything in return, while smearing Ukraine and Europe with lies and making demands without offering them anything in return.

This is in line with MAGA foreign policy more broadly: Attacks on allies, gifts for enemies.
The issue with Trump is that he doesn't understand foreign politics (as evidenced by his stance vs the EU, NATO, and Mexico) and doesn't really care about anything but himself (too much evidence to list), so he can't be expected to make decisions that align even with US interests. The cope that his incoherent reactivity and flip flopping (incidentally, the one thing he never flip flops on is his seething resentment for Ukraine and Europe more broadly) is part of some plan is based solely on cherry picking, as far as I can see.

If Putin offers a deal that screws over the US and EU but appeals to Trump's ego and imbecilic understanding of the world, I can easily see him picking that.

We'll have to see what happens.

What deal did Putin offer Scholz to kill billions in military aid and continue to buy hundred of billions in natural gas from Russia?
Still waiting on that Scholz post.

With the Black Sea Fleet in shambles and no means for Russia to produce new cruisers or aircraft carriers (no ziggers hate reading this thread, digitally made concept ships aren't real warships) makes Cirmea and the military footprint there a white elephant. If the Russians were smart they would focus their fleet efforts in the Pacific where they aren't easily pinned and isolated like in the Baltic or Black Sea region. Also those inbred Turko-Mongolians destroyed the one Dam capable of feeding fresh water in to Crimea so it's going to be a major money sink for whoever holds it.

Honestly if Russia was smart they'd just give up on a navy beyond some coastal defense ships and work on making their boomers able to operate independently - which is already sort of happening.

So, can anyone point to some summary or explain what the fuck did trump or putin say that made everyone's asses explode? Because I am totally out of the loop.

@teriyakiburns covered it in his post:
Trump is opening negoiations to end the war, and gotten Russia and Ukraine to agree to attend. Trump has said ending the war immediately is a priority, and part of the team he's sending is Vance who was very vocal about the US not sending military aid to Ukraine/not our fight, etc. There are some points for concern, but nothing remotely solid has come out, so everyone is speculating which is why its a hot topic.

Trump pretty much laid out a "peace offer" that is just a surrender in all but name with favorable conditions to Russia. Also he still wants the mineral rights for presumably the West flank of Ukraine which is pretty dumb.

He hasn't laid out any offer yet. Just opened negotiations.
And yes, he's getting mineral rights for territory currently in Russian hands which runs counter the narrative of him turning everything over to Russia.

The war was not totally pointless.
It killed a bunch of Russians and showed how fucking inept their army is

I never thought the day would come when I'd say "Clancy really gave the Russians too much credit in his novels" yet here we are.

That was without any western aid at all, just whatever soviet-era equipment they had hanging around and a half-reformed army that was still full of soviet-brained commanders and doctrine. The western aid came later and maintained the Ukrainian ability to fight, but there's no arguing Ukraine didn't hold its own before that. Would it have lost without help? Probably. Eventually. But then again, it might not have, because the only military force fighting in Ukraine less capable than the UF was the Russian military.

And again I just want to point out that "nation 1/5th the size of the country invading it requires external arms to keep fighting" is not the burn that vatniggers seem to imply that it is.

 

[World in Scarlet]

What deal did Putin offer Scholz to kill billions in military aid and continue to buy hundred of billions in natural gas from Russia?
Still waiting on that Scholz post.

Take your meds, retard. You've been bringing up this nonsense a dozen times as though it's supposed to mean something to anyone. It obviously doesn't, yet you persist. I guess in your addled brain you hallucinated something, like how Trump is a hot young stud.

I'll say it loudly and and proudly: Trump is fat and I would not have sex with him. Cope and seethe about it, bottom bitch.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

The political "scientist"/reptilian Vyacheslav Nikonov was on the talk show Bolshaya igra (the Great Game) on Russian Channel 1 today, gloating over what he thinks is a sign of Trump and the West abandoning Ukraine.

Nikonov is the grandson of Vyacheslav Molotov, the Soviet foreign minister who signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact with the Soviet Union's then-BFF Nazi Germany.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I never thought the day would come when I'd say "Clancy really gave the Russians too much credit in his novels" yet here we are.

The Bear and The Dragon was hopelessly optimistic in hindsight. The idea of Russia joining NATO so the west could help it fight off an invasion by China sounded nice when it was published; a utopian ideal of the future of cooperation between former enemies turned allies. Unfortunately, slavs gonna slav.

Fun fact: Putin was appointed president the same year the novel came out.

The political "scientist"/reptilian Vyacheslav Nikonov was on the talk show Bolshaya igra (the Great Game) on Russian Channel 1 today, gloating over what he thinks is a sign of Trump and the West abandoning Ukraine.

How many times has Russia run with premature celebrations about imminent victory and the collapse of the western alliance/ukraine/america/europe/whoever, only to be completely felted a day or two later? If they keep gloating that they've inevitably won every time Zelensky stubs his toe then they'll probably be right eventually, I suppose, but it's not exactly a great record.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

There's quite a few totally organic accounts created in the last 24 hours negrating posts in this thread; did something blow up in Z-land or are Zigzogs that worried with how Trump will "negotiate" (i.e. send a Tomahawk personally as a gift to the Kremlin, free delivery) with Putin?

 

[Ghostse]

Take your meds, retard. You've been bringing up this nonsense a dozen times as though it's supposed to mean something to anyone. It obviously doesn't, yet you persist. I guess in your addled brain you hallucinated something, like how Trump is a hot young stud.

I'll say it loudly and and proudly: Trump is fat and I would not have sex with him. Cope and seethe about it, bottom bitch.

Sorry what was that? Its hard to hear you cope and deflect over the noise of European "allies" continuing to transfer billions to Putin's pocket as they scream America isn't doing enough to protect them from Putin.

Also you are really obsessed with the idea of having sex with Trump. I know Europeans are all faggots but its getting a little disturbing at this point. Maybe go talk to your boyfriend about your fantasies instead of sharing them in this thread.

There's quite a few totally organic accounts created in the last 24 hours negrating posts in this thread; did something blow up in Z-land or are Zigzogs that worried with how Trump will "negotiate" (i.e. send a Tomahawk personally as a gift to the Kremlin, free delivery) with Putin?

Something could be happening, there is no solid information, so people are going to check the Other, Bad thread to see what they're saying/if the other team has sourced any info. While reading posts, they negrate.
May such cases. SAD!

 

[Frederica Bernkastel]

Trump got the same things Biden did, except Trump whipped up conflict and chaos and torched the relationship between the US and key allies, and harmed the US economy because now many foreign companies diversify their supply chains away from the US and some people boycott US products, damaged NATO deterrence.
A genius negotiator at work.

I don't think focusing Trump's actions is the best way to go about this. Our relationship with Russia has been appeasement since the fall of the USSR starting with Yeltsin who invaded Chechnya or even the Kiev chicken speech if we want to be honest. American presidents are leery about war because of the Iraq-Afghanistan precedent.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

I saw /pol/ schizoing out but I just assumed something blew up, another Depot or gas terminal.
People were upset at the phone call yesterday? Why? Negotiations require communication, preferably not through the Saudis forever.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Why?

It's been a Russian demand for a long time to negotiate directly with the United States, excluding Ukraine, and the phone call revealed that Trump was doing exactly that, caving to Putin. Trump later doubled down on direct Russia-US negotiations too, so this wasn't just a one off thing.
Then there's also the content Trump's message itself, which was very submissive and friendly towards someone who is an enemy of the United States and working to undermine and wreck it.

There was also additional context in Hegseth's statement that Ukraine will not join NATO, meaning the US government caved to that Russian demand as well, before anything was even really negotiated.

There was nothing from the Russian side in return. Trump got completely played.

All this doesn't bode well for future negotiations.