Off-Topic Transgender Legislation and Litigation

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

While I feel similar, I also acknowledge managements right to refuse entry, or refuse employment. If management believe the mere presence of an employee (for whatever reason) is negatively affecting staff morale or their bottom line due to clients choosing to go elsewhere, I believe they should be able sack an employee. I’m not for a minute suggesting that’s just non-binary or transgender pains in the butt. It could be people with annoying personality or even physical (eg poor hygiene) traits. I don’t believe any court has the right to order an employer to hire or keep an unwanted employee under threat of financial penalty.

What about people who have traits that others find annoying but aren’t their fault, like mild autism (that doesn’t stop them doing their job), tics or stammering for example?

While there are lots of traits that are objectively annoying, there’s lots of traits that many people are simply intolerant of that they shouldn’t be. Also some traits that are features of illnesses and disabilities.

There needs to be a balance between not unfairly ostracising and disadvantaging people for not being normative, while not indulging socially unacceptable behaviours in society.

 

[monstrous bubo]

The persecution of Scottish nurse Sandie Peggie continues. Remember, she’s brought an action against her employer for sexual harassment because it let Ted Upton into the female change rooms. While the employment tribunal is in recess, her employer has launched an investigation into whether it misgendered Ted. She could get the sack. To be clear, NHS Fife is investigating whether she misgendered him after already stating in the tribunal that she did. There’s not even the appearance of fairness.

link

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

 

[I call shenanigans]

NHS Fife is investigating whether she misgendered him after already stating in the tribunal that she did. There’s not even the appearance of fairness.

It is claimed that this pre-judged the outcome of the health board’s own investigation process, and would hand Ms Peggie strong legal grounds to challenge the outcome and any sanction.

This is a really ill-advised move from the NHS. One thing I learned decades ago via an employment tribunal, is to never go after someone that has an ongoing tribunal case against you. If you act before the outcome is known, and the claimant later wins their tribunal case, the financial costs for the employer will sky rocket. Both sides lose in the end as the employee is still out of a job, but the employer loses just as much because they are paying out to the employee.

NHS must know this. My guess is they’ve decided to sacrifice Sandy Peggie. She’s just one nurse (financially a drop in the bucket of the NHS budget), the whole transgender community is much tougher to battle.

 

[gampboonerisms]

What this means is trans athletes will just go stealth"

Stealth? With all the pins, kneehigh coder socks, bad hair, ill-fitting clothes, bad makeup, and having to declare that theyre trans ever 5 mins? No way.
that old joke 'how can you id a vegan? Theyll tell you!' Is now how can you id a tranny, dont worry theyll tell you.

 

[Procrastinhater]

The persecution of Scottish nurse Sandie Peggie continues. Remember, she’s brought an action against her employer for sexual harassment because it let Ted Upton into the female change rooms. While the employment tribunal is in recess, her employer has launched an investigation into whether it misgendered Ted. She could get the sack. To be clear, NHS Fife is investigating whether she misgendered him after already stating in the tribunal that she did. There’s not even the appearance of fairness.

I'm sure I read that GC beliefs were protected under UK law.
They can't punish her for calling a man a man when those are her honest beliefs and a scientific reality.
All they're doing is wasting taxpayer money.
He doesn't even have one of those Gender Recognition things so legally i don't see they have a fucking leg to stand on.

 

[monstrous bubo]

I'm sure I read that GC beliefs were protected under UK law.
They can't punish her for calling a man a man when those are her honest beliefs and a scientific reality.

Holding a belief is one thing. How and when that belief is expressed is another thing entirely, particularly in the workplace. If she held racist beliefs, they couldn’t sack he just for that, but they can if she was going around yelling “niggerkike” every day at fellow employees. Her employer is investigating her for harassment: her right to express certain beliefs, verbally and in action, to his face vs his right not to feel sad. The Forstater case, which is the major one on GC beliefs, did not include any allegations of harassment; her employer just thought every employee had to believe certain things to align with the corporate culture, and sacked her for wrongthink. That is why this case is so important: what beliefs can be expressed, and how far can denial of biological reality be imposed upon employees in practice.

The employer has royally fucked up by asserting in the tribunal Peggie harassed Upton, and then launching its own investigation to determine if she did. Whatever her employer’s own investigation finds, it is fatally tainted by this fundamental unfairness, and cannot survive judicial review if it finds against her. I don’t know if I would consider this some sort of elite conspiracy though - it just looks more like a total clusterfuck by management who bungled this from the start.

 

[I call shenanigans]

The employer has royally fucked up by asserting in the tribunal Peggie harassed Upton, and then launching its own investigation to determine if she did.

And they waited over a year to do so. The bathroom confrontation happened on Christmas Eve 2023. The investigation should have taken place in the two months they had her suspended, instead they waited until after she’d had enough and filed the tribunal case against them. The “harassment” is not about Peggie continually calling Dr Troon a man, because she only did that once to his face, it’s about her consistently leaving the changing room whenever he was in there. She has admitted to it both immediately after the Christmas Eve incident, and during the tribunal hearings. The hospital investigation, is more likely to be centred around the alleged patient safety issues that Dr Troon said happened before the bathroom incident but he never reported until he wanted to dig the knife into Peggie for daring to call him out.

For those who haven’t read the transcripts, the patient safety issue was Oct 30 2023 when she was in a cubicle with a child that had a peanut allergy and had eaten a snickers bar. The child was stable when Dr Troon entered the cubicle. Peggie asked him to do the kids observations and left the cubicle. It’s not like Peggie left the child alone, she left him with a Dr. There is some other non-patient incident involving her ducking into a plaster room with another nurse, presumably to avoid Dr Troon. Details are sketchy and I’m unclear on why this was a reportable issue.

 

[TrannyTracker-5000]

<snip>

To comment further on the Peggie vs NHS Fife case:
A livestream just concluded in which Sarah Phillimore a British Barrister chimed in with additional details.

https://youtu.be/BCqe0WnBgCA?

1. Yes, the NHS and Upton have shown in court that they fucked up with regard to the Christmas Incident, as Upton should have reported it immediately and the NHS should have set a hearing with Peggie first.
Regardless how the case shakes out in employment terms they shot themselves in the foot.
2. Phillimore points to several remarks made by Dr. Troon that will do him no favour in eyes of the judge and tribunal:
- Sneering at Peggie’s lawyer and implying they don’t like him (muh transphobia)
- Decrying the entire tribunal as a harassment campaign (muh transphobic law system), which is not very smart.
- Sketchy note keeping and playing into Peggie’s Defense by basically revealing that the events as he laid them out are basically all pulled out of his ass DARVO style.
! Basically Doc Troon being self-righteous and narcissistic Rheeeeese McKinnon Style

I like the way she put it: basically taking an AK-47 and blowing his legs under his own knees away.

Finally, she also remarks on holding a belief and how it is expressed, also stating that it would have been a different matter if Peggie or Patient would follow the Doc through the hospital while repeatedly calling him a man.*
*Personally would have loved to see it.

Overall the Lawyer really put the screws on them, by asking whether vestiges and haircuts meaningfully changes ones sex, yet they kept dodging and skirting the question.

This shitshow is now properly getting started as Scottish politicians are paying attention (courtesy of the BBC):

Murdo Fraser, MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, said his constituents had contacted him about a "witch hunt" against Sandie Peggie "who was simply standing up for her legal right to access single-sex changing facilities in her place of work".
He told BBC Scotland's Drivetime programme: "Instead of taking that request seriously, she was suspended by NHS Fife for making that complaint and now is having to go to an employment tribunal to try and have her rights restored."
The MSP said he plans to question the Scottish government in parliament about the issue later this week.
He added: "I cannot see how it is justified for the senior management on the board of NHS Fife to continue to spend what now must be hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money on a case they are bound to lose.

 

[The Poopsmith]

Stealth? With all the pins, kneehigh coder socks, bad hair, ill-fitting clothes, bad makeup, and having to declare that theyre trans ever 5 mins? No way.
that old joke 'how can you id a vegan? Theyll tell you!' Is now how can you id a tranny, dont worry theyll tell you.

How can you ID a tranny? Don't worry, you'll know

 

[TrannyTracker-5000]

How can you ID a tranny? Don't worry, you'll know SMELL

BO or death from down below

 

[Not Dr. Evil]

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox has signed into law a ban on transgender students living in public college dorms that align with their gender identity — marking the third time in as many years he’s approved legislation that’s restricted the small community under the LGBTQ umbrella.

His signature came Friday night as he included the ban among the first slate of bills he’s endorsed this legislative session; he also approved the controversial measure to block collective bargaining for public unions.

Advocacy groups and residents across the state had pleaded over the past few weeks for Cox to veto both measures.

Utah trans students banned from dorms that align with their gender identity, after Gov. Cox signs bill

 

[Sourceress]

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox has signed into law a ban on transgender students living in public college dorms that align with their gender identity — marking the third time in as many years he’s approved legislation that’s restricted the small community under the LGBTQ umbrella.

First of all, love this bill, but I hate articles like this. No, this bill isn't "(restricting) the small community under the LGBTQ umbrella." Gays aren't throwing tantrums to be allowed in the women's dorms. Lesbians aren't busting down doors demanding to be let into the men's dorms. The LGB isn't even remotely a part of any of this. It's just trans. Just say trans and whatever the hell queer means now (usually trans but even lower effort than usual). I'm so tiiired.

 

[Kiska]

A recent order from a single judge required the Trump admin to reinstate several misleading CDC , FDA , Health & Human Services guidelines that promoted harmful narratives on official government sources. In response, the team who restored it added headers explaining the reason why this page was even reinstated. Shows how judges in jurisdictions we do not live in have too much power to affect our daily lives, but interesting that they took advantage of the fact the judge didn't say "How" to reinstate it.

Page example that was ordered to be reinstated: https://www.cdc.gov/healthy-youth/lgbtq-youth/health-disparities-among-lgbtq-youth.html

 

[I call shenanigans]

Page example that was ordered to be reinstated

Still no T in the LGBQ!

 

[Kiska]

Still no T in the LGBQ!

I'm pretty sure the trump admin might of actually done that edit since the URL itself still keeps the "T" part

 

[Not Dr. Evil]

"TOPEKA — Senate and House Republicans voted Tuesday to override Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto of legislation that bans gender-affirming care for minors, rejecting pleas from Democrats to turn attention instead to issues that would help Kansas families.

Republicans used their dominance in both chambers to summon the two-thirds majorities needed to override the veto with votes of 31-9 in the Senate and 85-34 in the House. The unscheduled votes caught Democrats off-guard.

Senate Bill 63 prohibits health care providers from providing surgery, hormones or puberty blockers to children who identify as a gender that is different from the sex they were assigned at birth. Health care providers who break the law will be stripped of their license.

It also prohibits the use of state funds for psychological treatment for transgender children, bans state employees from promoting “social transitioning” and outlaws liability insurance for damages related to gender-affirming care."

Kansas Legislature overrides governor’s veto of legislation that targets trans kids

"Over chants of "trans rights are human rights," House Republican lawmakers advanced a bill Tuesday making it a felony to take someone younger than 18 to a drag show, the first legislative proposal this year explicitly targeting the performances.

Critics fear the definition of "drag show" in the proposal, House Study Bill 158, would effectively bar transgender people from speaking in front of minors and ban certain theatrical performances, though lawmakers vowed to amend existing language as the bill moves forward.

The bill defines a drag show as a performance primarily where the performer "exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer’s gender assigned at birth" by their clothing, makeup, accessories or other features."

Over 'trans rights' chants, bill making it a felony to take minors to drag shows advances

"COLUMBUS, Ohio (WSYX) — The Columbus City Schools Board of Education voted to amend its restroom policy, aligning with Ohio Senate Bill 104, a controversial measure known as the "bathroom bill," which will take effect later this month.

The decision follows several attempts to revise the policy. Previously, schools could allow transgender students to use gendered restrooms and changing rooms on a case-by-case basis. However, the proposed changes will specifically prohibit this practice."

Columbus City Schools votes to rescind transgender bathroom policy to comply with law

 

[I call shenanigans]

And here we go again. As I wrote earlier, it’s never a good idea to take action against an employee that is in the process of suing you already. Apart from the financial consequences should they win their suit, they are already lawyered up, so will absolutely have legal representation at any hearing. There’s not going to be any riding roughshod or trying to intimidate the employee when they have legal representation on board. Even more so if that representative is Naomi Cunningham. Plus they’ve now been able to add this action to their tribunal claim. What numptys!

A nurse who is in the middle of an employment tribunal against NHS Fife has been called to a separate disciplinary hearing by the health board.
Sandie Peggie claims she was subjected to unlawful harassment by being made to share a changing room at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, with Dr Beth Upton - who is a transgender woman.

Her claim is disputed by the health board and the doctor. On Friday, the tribunal judge adjourned the case until July.

The BBC has learned that NHS Fife has scheduled a conduct hearing to examine allegations against Ms Peggie of misconduct, failures of patient care and misgendering Dr Upton. The potential outcomes range from no case to dismissal.

The hearing was originally due to take place on Friday but has been rescheduled at Ms Peggie's request.

In response, her legal team are planning further action in the form of another tribunal claim.

NHS Fife said it was unable to comment on matters relating to individual staff members.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3d5d0x97vyo

ETA: also a crowdfund to raise funds (Target £500) for Sandy Peggie to spoil herself after the tribunal with a massage day etc, is currently sitting at £37,000. Sandy Peggie has thanked those involved, but stated all monies raised will be donated to charity.

This is the write up on the crowdfunding page.

We owe Sandie an enormous debt of gratitude for being the brave woman who stood up and said no!

By standing up for herself, she’s standing up for all women.


*Update 13/02/25*
A message from Sandie

‘ I have been overwhelmed by the cards, flowers, and messages of support I have received from across the world and I’m so thankful to those who contributed to this Crowdfunder for their generosity. I’ve made the decision to donate this money to charity and will update everyone on the page once this has been done.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/in-support-of-sandie-peggie

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

The bill defines a drag show as a performance primarily where the performer "exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer’s gender assigned at birth" by their clothing, makeup, accessories or other features."

I don’t like this wording. The problem isn’t the opposite gender clothing, it’s that drag performances are typically sexualised.

The current wording could potentially be twisted to punish completely innocent people, like butch women wearing suits, men performing in retro glam-rock style, or British pantomimes.

Also “gender assigned at birth” is not a real thing, making the wording of bill weak.

It should have just been something like exposing minors to sexualised live performances. This would cover other sexual acts, or any subcultures that may come about in the future.

I’m glad they acknowledge the wording needs to be adjusted and I hope they actually do it.

 

[Disdainer of the Plebs]

I don’t like this wording. The problem isn’t the opposite gender clothing, it’s that drag performances are typically sexualised.

The current wording could potentially be twisted to punish completely innocent people, like butch women wearing suits, men performing in retro glam-rock style, or British pantomimes.

Also “gender assigned at birth” is not a real thing, making the wording of bill weak.

It should have just been something like exposing minors to sexualised live performances. This would cover other sexual acts, or any subcultures that may come about in the future.

I’m glad they acknowledge the wording needs to be adjusted and I hope they actually do it.

Remember, these are written by local legacy media firms who have been carrying water for the troon menace for more than a decade now. They are extremely progressive and I doubt the actual bill uses that "gender assigned at birth" bullshit. If it does, Kansas Republicans are even dumber than reputation would imply.

 

[I call shenanigans]

Given that in the past couple of weeks it’s been revealed by JK Rowling on X, and by Julie Bindel herself via Andrew Gold’s Heretics channel, that JKR was the financial supporter of her lawsuit against Pink News, it gives me pause to think that JKR may also be the funds benefactor for Scottish woman Sandy Peggie’s legal battle with the NHS and Dr Theodore (Beth) Upton. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit. God I love this TERF. She really does put her money where her mouth is.

ETA: It’s not just her these days TERF stance though. When my then 8 year old was recommended her Harry Potter books, which I think were just the first 2 that I read to him, (I read many books to my sons before this) but by book 4 he was reading them by himself, and I had to buy two hard copies of each book so he could read them himself and I could read them at the same time. She alone is responsible for his love of reading, which is a wonderful thing. He hated the movies when they came out because, not only did they miss so much of the story, they gave him images that didn’t correlate with what his imagination had told him to expect.

ETA2: I see there is also a change.com petiton that comes from an Adelaide South Australia account, for Sandy Peggie. I don’t expect it will do anything, just that its an international show of support.

https://www.change.org/p/support-nhs-nurse-sandie-peggie-threatened-with-dismissal