Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

warhammerautist said:
supposedly other parts of the deal.
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That is a pretty tough deal for Ukraine. It is a realistic deal though since they are not exactly winning. I think lot of people will think of this as a total surrender and betrayal.
I think:
1) maybe Z will not return to Ukraine after signing the deal. Azov and a lot of other factions will not like this deal one bit.
2) chance of civil war just increased by a lot.

EDIT: The big tell will be, does Z go there to sign the deal just himself or will wife and close family join on this trip?
 
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warhammerautist said:
supposedly other parts of the deal.
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A DMZ at the absolute current front lines is probably the best bet Ukraine can hope for along with a Kharkiv and Kursk territory swap.

Every day the war drags on Ukraine keeps losing ground in the Donbass.

If they lose Pokrovsk before the war ends.... They're screwed.
 
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Cuckoman said:
That is a pretty tough deal for Ukraine. It is a realistic deal though since they are not exactly winning. I think lot of people will think of this as a total surrender and betrayal.
I think:
1) maybe Z will not return to Ukraine after signing the deal. Azov and a lot of other factions will not like this deal one bit.
2) chance of civil war just increased by a lot.
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I'm struggling to see exactly what Ukraine or Zelensky get from this "deal"? What would've been different if he had said no? Are we just agreeing to keep sending them 1980's junk at double the original list price or what?
 
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Cuckoman said:
That is a pretty tough deal for Ukraine. It is a realistic deal though since they are not exactly winning. I think lot of people will think of this as a total surrender and betrayal.
I think:
1) maybe Z will not return to Ukraine after signing the deal. Azov and a lot of other factions will not like this deal one bit.
2) chance of civil war just increased by a lot.

EDIT: The big tell will be, does Z go there to sign the deal just himself or will wife and close family join on this trip?
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Ukraine has no chance. Either sign it or be left to dry.

Of course the political, social and military consequence of saying no is basically Putin stream rolling demoralized Ukranian front lines.
 
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warhammerautist said:
The only way to make this an actual peace deal or an actual victory is that it would absolutely guarantee that the Ukrainians won't keep their military, repopulate and get armed again to attack Russia 10 years later.
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Best thing to do is get US and Russia to codevelop and invest in mineral production in Ukraine as well as, if EUROfags will do it, European nations.
 
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SaidNoOneEver said:
I'm struggling to see exactly what Ukraine or Zelensky get from this "deal"? What would've been different if he had said no? Are we just agreeing to keep sending them 1980's junk at double the original list price or what?
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Not losing everything east of the Dnieper. We've gone through most of the winter with Russia still talking ground, better to end it as soon as you can before you get into the proper campaign season and possibly lose much, much more.

Edit: Unless you just mean the resources to the USA deal, in which case, any support from NATO whatsoever. Europe likes to talk a big deal about how they won't give up and can totally afford to keep funding this whole mess, but if the US washes their hands of it, you can bet most of Europe will be bailing out too. No one has the economy to throw away at this point for no gain either.
 
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Gunlance said:
Edit: Unless you just mean the resources to the USA deal, in which case, any support from NATO whatsoever. Europe likes to talk a big deal about how they won't give up and can totally afford to keep funding this whole mess, but if the US washes their hands of it, you can bet most of Europe will be bailing out too. No one has the economy to throw away at this point for no gain either.
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I'm pretty sure they will start sending troops and such then go all shocked pikachu when they all die and the people at home start getting flags (or whatever the euro custom is)

or start exposing how useless their troops are. They are completely delusional in what they think they're capable of
 
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I give up.
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  • Putin could have at any time talked about the maiden massacre, Ukraine's love for Bandera and hate for the Russian speaking population to get killed in tucker's interview which has over 200 million views but instead he talks about we wuz vikangz n shieet. Like if he clearly stated what started the war there would be less support from the general population for the war and the politicians supporting it.
  • If Trump went as far as calling Zelensky a dictator and doesn't believe in Ukraine's victory, he can go with the 1st point story to mostly get the general public off his ass.
  • Vance is hitting it really close when he is talking about Ukraine's military and how Europe supporting it will never get the results they want. If he just clearly states what the losses are, what might Russia has over Ukraine than what Ukraine has with Europe supporting it, then that will get the general public more likely to stop cheering as they are cheering for Ukraine's genocide.
States mineral deal but not enough emphasis that the mineral deal includes their surrender and what Russia's conditions are because what Trump is saying and what Russia wants are two different things (which are not peacekeepers) of the peace deal. I am just going to play with my thumbs until the Russian forces reach the dnieper river or the announcement of Ukraine's next mobilization law effectively hitting the mobilization age at 18 to kill off the Ukrainian sympathizers' lust for their deaths since they will begin to care more about their public image than those that are suffering.
 
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