Debate anime degeneracy with UnidentifiedFlyingLotus and Gregis

[Gregis]

ಠ_ಠ​

(╯° □°） ╯︵ ┻━┻

Follow the above link back to UFO's original post that started this; I don't know how to replicate it here easily or if it would advisable in any case.

Spoiler: More context

Lucky☆Star (2007) also by Kyoto Animation
Relatable daily lives of four schoolgirls in Japan.

You filed this under wholesome?

Sure. It's a "slice of life" anime. The plot is "a show about nothing" (e.g. Seinfeld). The lives of the girls are shown in a relatable way, with caring parents. It doesn't have the level of drama, sex and violence found in Saved By the Bell. Doing well in school is shown in a positive light, and cultural traditions are respected. The girls and women in the series discuss and think about dating and marriage.

It's 100% downstream of the trends Taggofreggin was pointing out, it exists as commentary on degenerated otaku culture.

One of the 4 girls is an otaku (portrayed negativly). Meta commentary on otaku culture isn't the same as anime becoming self-cannibalized slop (creators being primarily inspired by previous anime).

Hollywood films like Barton Fink (Coen brothers), Ed Wood (Tim Burton), or Bowfinger (Frank Oz) have meta commentary on Hollywood filmmaking (and are made by competent creators). I don't believe these meta commentary films display the traits of modern media self-cannibalism. Ed Wood isn't cannibalized slop even if Tim Burton has gone on to make modern cannibalized slop.

Also, Tezuka is the father of manga, and they found his furry porn stash after he died. Anime has been rotten from the beginning, and it's Disney's fault (Bambi specifically).

Horny artists draw horny art. Not exactly a new trend. I don't believe this vase makes western art "rotten from the beginning".

To continue our Lucky Star discussion away from the US politics megathread, despite its obvious relevance, first let me say I'm not personally opposed to your taste (unless you're watching these all as dubs); Angel Cop is interesting for reasons other than its meme-worthy English dub; Nausicaa is stunning; in Lucky Star, the jaded, "aging" teenage idol who starts doing the outros is a funny character. But characterizing it as one out of four of the main girls being an otaku seems misleading, I don't know how you can argue blue hair (don't remember their names, not looking it up) isn't the main one. And when she "thinks about marriage", she's contemplating whether she'll end up with a lolicon because she's underdeveloped. Your point about meta-commentary is well taken, I think Barton Fink is a masterpiece; Lucky Star isn't nearly on that level, but it's not bad, and engages with an existing Japanese otaku culture the same way Barton Fink is critiquing an American theatrical culture that ranges from shallow, mass market slop to shallow, pseudointellectual, self-congratulatory garbage. That said, when someone like Null complains that any anime recommendation they get inevitably contains some poison pill of degeneracy that makes them turn it off, Lucky Star won't be the one to change their mind.

And I am in fact willing to countenance that western culture may have been rotten from the beginning. The classical Greeks (you brought them up, not me) made enduring political and cultural contributions and had a penchant for abstract philosophy, all of which is bound up with a system of sexual perversion (pederasty) that may or may not even be separable. Perhaps not unlike...the (you brought them up, not me) Jews? Well, agriculture and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race...I brought up Disney for a reason. Their early works are masterpieces, and also are touched to their core with jazz age degeneracy. All western animation is rooted in minstrelsy, hillbilly gags, and horniness, and Disney is (not wrongly in relative terms) thought of as the wholesome, anodyne studio. What made me realize this was watching Soviet animations of fairy tales. At first my mind rebelled, crying "Where's the racial stereotype humor, where are the nigger musical numbers? There's no cruel slapstick, only...a magical children's story, brought to life." If you have not watched any, they are quite refreshing. Again, Disney made masterpieces and those aren't invalidated by other works, but they only look wholesome next to the firehose of degeneracy that is the rest of American culture. And the K-On! fascists have a point, Japan has an enviable, harmonious society; at the same time they have deep dysfunction. I find the story of Sada Abe instructive.
@UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

Their early works are masterpieces

 

[I Shidded I Farded I Came]

To continue our Lucky Star discussion away from the US politics megathread, despite its obvious relevance

nigger what? i don't know if you noticed but anime is cartoons.

 

[WelperHelper99]

The classical Greeks

>Anime
Ok come on now lmao

 

[Gregis]

nigger what? i don't know if you noticed but anime is cartoons.

Come on, don't call me autistic and then not give me the sticker! I know I look like the autistic one for making the thread, but in my defense UFO is the one who posted his anime recommendations in USPG2, I'm trying to be responsible taking the ensuing discussion elsewhere (in his defense it was marginally relevant, and he spoilered the recs). I was going to post on his profile page, but char limit. I just wanna talk about amines and the downfall of western civilization with my friend

 

[Catgirl Tyranid]

Anime is weird and foreign and the only reason it has prominence in Western culture is because Western culture was obsessed with the end of history and advancing the cause of Utopia which made everything it produced increasingly insane and retarded.

Also, stop watching porn.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Come on, don't call me autistic and then not give me the sticker! I know I look like the autistic one for making the thread, but in my defense UFO is the one who posted his anime recommendations in USPG2, I'm trying to be responsible taking the ensuing discussion elsewhere (in his defense it was marginally relevant, and he spoilered the recs). I was going to post on his profile page, but char limit. I just wanna talk about amines and the downfall of western civilization with my friend

I've got you covered.

There must be some way I can work East Germany into this mass debation.

 

[Gregis]

I've got you covered.

There must be some way I can work East Germany into this mass debation.

They're already relevant, I talked about Soviet animation! I'm not aware of specifically East German produced cartoons, I think the ones I know were made in modern day Ukraine or Russia, but of course there are no borders in the glorious Soviet state, comrade.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

They're already relevant, I talked about Soviet animation! I'm not aware of specifically East German produced cartoons, I think the ones I know were made in modern day Ukraine or Russia, but of course there are no borders in the glorious Soviet state, comrade.

Germans prefer stop-motion animation. Get on our level, Genosse.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Anime was a mistake.

 

[Willie B. Hardigan]

And I am in fact willing to countenance that all human culture may have been rotten from the beginning.

If you go back far enough you'll find stories from the Bronze Age of things like rape, bestiality, and other sexual perversions. The later Egyptians and Grecco-Romans just continued this already ongoing human trend as the cycle of civilizations moved upwards in latitude. All later nations like the United States, Japan, Germany, the UK, etc are not abnormalities of human behavior just that certain inventions and modernization have made such materials a lot more prolific among the general society than they once were. The degenerate of 1600 BC could not draw his disgusting fetishes due to the fact he lacked the time, materials, and references to do so. A far cry from the modern age where the average person can practically make anything he or she desires with no roadblocks. The Venus figurines of the Upper Palaeolithic can probably be the start of the eternal downfall of human chastity. Why would anyone need such vile "imaginative" imagery?

The Muscovites of the Grand Duchy of Moscow were unfortunately little different from their Western counterparts as Austrian and English writers and diplomats like Sigismund von Herberstein, George Turberville, etc all noted a similar level of homosexuality or perversion amongst all classes within both their regions. Now of course all of this could change with the October Revolution and Communist uprising. Surly those iron leaders would stamp out this vileness within their societies, unfortunately, instead, they would do things like decriminalize the act in 1917 with the removal of most Tzarist codes. It then became legalized in 1922 and had a decent number of internal advocates within the bureaucracy. A pamphlet titled, "The Sexual Revolution in Russia" was even created a year later as an assessment of the cultural changes going on which included treating "same-sex" couples as "normal human behavior". It took until 1933 for the Stalin regime to make sodomy a crime again.

Outwardly the USSR and other authoritarian regimes seemed to appear like beacons of modesty and virtue but no amount of laws can stop people from being disgusting towards others. Sure the people broadly didn't accept these things like most sane individuals on Earth, however, degeneracy is just an eternal plague that will continue to afflict any large group of humans beyond 100 members. You can ban them, and keep them caged, but they'll eventually start worming their way into industries like Animation in America or Ballet in the USSR. Both seem to have occurred around the 60s and 70s with the first documented Transgender patient even being worked on in Russia around that time due to the growing levels of sexopathology research by Aron Isaakovich Belkin, the John Money of Russia. My point is that all the world's arts are at one point in the timeline have been tainted to levels most would find unsalvageable, yet we still consume them thinking their relational purity to others makes them exceptions due to whatever supposed "element" is unique to the people. The underlying truth is that hedonism is a part of human behavior. The Moscow Helsinki Group and the Free Interprofessional Labor Union which smuggled in tons of degenerate Western media across the Iron Curtain tell me demand never differed from other parts of the world for vile content.

 

[オプセック]

Their early works are masterpieces, and also are touched to their core with jazz age degeneracy.

That's often the best part tho...

You can't take this from me!

I like your and @UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid 's takes on the issue - mainly that you pointed out how there's an interesting outsider's perspective with the older and edgier ones and that the "artform" died when it began referencing itself. Abstract art, any one? Not even saying all abstract art sucks, but I think that's what's often happening there too. But man, nigger culture isn't all bad - like both your posts point out: It's bad when it's bad and it's degenerate when it's degenerate.

I really liked @UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid 's off-hand schizo angle with the world bank causing anime to become gay, can we have more on that?
"Who cares wins" is attached...

Not in the mood for going through all this, but good topic. Will be back on it!

 

[Gregis]

For reference, here's one of those Soviet animations I was talking about, probably the best known one; the video is the original Russian dub, English sub is in the youtube CCs (if you want English dub that's even easier to find). The director was of Armenian descent, born in Moscow. Looking it up, what I'd forgotten is Miyazaki cites it as one of his favorite movies, so it's of additional relevance here.

You can't take this from me!

Nor would I want to! Yeah, entertainment, and music especially, is the place where it makes least sense to be racist; but from time to time, everyone can become a little...fatigued. We're so far removed from the culture where commercial animation was starting a hundred years ago, so much just seems quaint, and you can start to lose sight of the broad, vaudevillian roots that even the most wholesome stuff is aping. Willie Hardigan's absolutely right that the USSR was not a spiritually pure utopia (Beria anyone?), and censorship and lies are very corrosive to a people's spirit; but different perspectives can cast what we have grown accustomed to into relief.

 

[YWNBAM]

 Lucky Star, huh. Haven't heard this name in a long ass time. To think that back in '10s every male weeb was shilling it as a masterpiece only to then most of them moving on to some other hip and cool waifu bait. Tale as old as time.

Comparing it to western classics is very funny. The op of the original take should probably take off his nostalgia goggles sometimes.

Pull away the meme aspect and Lucky Star is nothing but yet another "cute underage girls doing my super cool nerdy male hobby without any yucky guys around" slop. It was made by and for the yuricuck purist crowd who may have watched it as teens at first but never matured past it. If not for the main heroines looking like preschoolers that don't act or look like actual highschool girls, most of the lolicon weebs wouldn't watch or even remember it anyway, even if the oh-so-deep otaku criticism and meta commentary (wow so smart!) were still present. Wasn't the original mangaka caught with cp? If not, then it's only because his home hasn't been searched yet.

オタクの男性は気持ち悪い虫だね

 

[UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid]

first let me say I'm not personally opposed to your taste (unless you're watching these all as dubs)

Subs vs Dubs... straight into an anime "religious war". There are pros and cons.

Angel Cop is interesting for reasons other than its meme-worthy English dub;

The sub and dub are like watching two different animes. Angel Cop can be compared to Ghost in the Shell. likewise Paul Verhoeven can be compared to Ridley Scott. But instead of Ridley Scott's Blade Runner or Kingdom of Heaven being mangled by the Hollywood studio, they instead mangled Starship Troopers, Total Recall, or Robo Cop to be even more rediculous and twisted the political messaging to the point it is almost fully incoherent.

Nausicaa is stunning;

I agree. Also, the english voice acting was cast very well. The extra care Studio Ghubli puts into their works shows.

in Lucky Star, the jaded, "aging" teenage idol who starts doing the outros is a funny character. But characterizing it as one out of four of the main girls being an otaku seems misleading, I don't know how you can argue blue hair (don't remember their names, not looking it up) isn't the main one. And when she "thinks about marriage", she's contemplating whether she'll end up with a lolicon because she's underdeveloped.

Konata (blue hair) is the otaku (Japanese nerdy consumer). The purple haired ones are sisters, and the pink haired one is from a wealthier family.
Konata says autistic inappropriate things. She comments on being short and flat chested, which are things teenage girls worry about. She frames it "positively" by saying it has value to lolicons (a word that conjures a mindfield if discussed).

Your point about meta-commentary is well taken, I think Barton Fink is a masterpiece; Lucky Star isn't nearly on that level, but it's not bad, and engages with an existing Japanese otaku culture the same way Barton Fink is critiquing an American theatrical culture that ranges from shallow, mass market slop to shallow, pseudointellectual, self-congratulatory garbage.

I'm glad my point was understandable.

That said, when someone like Null complains that any anime recommendation they get inevitably contains some poison pill of degeneracy that makes them turn it off, Lucky Star won't be the one to change their mind.

I agree. The sorry state of weeaboo degeneracy taints anime. Tangentially, knowing how sleezy Hollywood is can sour watching many films.

And I am in fact willing to countenance that western culture may have been rotten from the beginning. The classical Greeks (you brought them up, not me) made enduring political and cultural contributions and had a penchant for abstract philosophy, all of which is bound up with a system of sexual perversion (pederasty) that may or may not even be separable.

I found the arguments in Homosexuality in Ancient Greece: The Myth is Collapsing by Adonis A. Georgiades to be convincing. The ancient Greeks and Romans were not societies that glorified pederasty. Additionally, modern brain scans show straight men’s physiological stress response to seeing two men kissing is the same as seeing maggots. I think that revulsion is in the nature of men, hence would have been true in antiquity also.

Perhaps not unlike...the (you brought them up, not me) Jews?

Jews are a source of degeneracy, yes.

Well, agriculture and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race...

Ted Kaczynski's thoughts are interesting. And he is a fruitful source of memes. I don't agree with his conclusions.

I brought up Disney for a reason. Their early works are masterpieces, and also are touched to their core with jazz age degeneracy. All western animation is rooted in minstrelsy, hillbilly gags, and horniness, and Disney is (not wrongly in relative terms) thought of as the wholesome, anodyne studio.

The American film industry (including animation) was heavily jewish. Vaudeville and the jazz scene were likewise heavily jewish.

For example: Al Jolson went from vaudeville to Hollywood and starred in the first sound film The Jazz Singer where he wore blackface.

Walt Disney's business partner was the Ukrainian-Jewish Ub Iwerks. Iwerks was an animator. He created Mickey Mouse. Friz Freleng, a fellow jewish animator, was brought in to early Disney by Iwerks. Freleng went on to popularize Looney Toons.

What made me realize this was watching Soviet animations of fairy tales. At first my mind rebelled, crying "Where's the racial stereotype humor, where are the nigger musical numbers? There's no cruel slapstick, only...a magical children's story, brought to life." If you have not watched any, they are quite refreshing.

I have seen many, including The Snow Queen that you posted further down the thread. Disney's™ Frozen is a mangling of that Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale.

A newer Russian animated movie I thought was worth watching is the 2011 Prince Ivan and the Grey Wolf | "Иван Царевич и Серый волк". It isn't a timeless masterpiece. More like a middle teir Don Bluth movie.

Again, Disney made masterpieces and those aren't invalidated by other works, but they only look wholesome next to the firehose of degeneracy that is the rest of American culture. And the K-On! fascists have a point, Japan has an enviable, harmonious society; at the same time they have deep dysfunction. I find the story of Sada Abe instructive.

Japan has distinct culture. "Honorary Arian" in some ways and in other ways bizarrely alien. Any particular reason you find the Japanese equivalent of Lorena Bobbitt/Aileen Wuornos instructive?

 

[YWNBAM]

Japanese equivalent of Lorena Bobbitt/Aileen Wuornos

The fact that to you a domestic abuse victim, a lesbian serial killer/robber and a jealous bpd prostitute are all the same says a lot.
But Sada Abe is a good story to teach several important things:
1) whore men deserve their cocks to be cut off since it's the only value they have;
2)"yandere" women are not the perfect Yamada Nadeshiko types despite what hentai tells you;
3) whore men ruin women with their degeneracy

 

[UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid]

Aron Isaakovich Belkin, the John Money of Russia

Aron Isaakovich Belkin. Huh, you learn something new every day.

Do these men share any common traits we should be look for to suss out their deviousness?

John Money​

Aron Belkin​

Another of the worlds...

 

[Gregis]

Angel Cop can be compared to Ghost in the Shell. likewise Paul Verhoeven can be compared to Ridley Scott.

A very clever analogy to make your point. Of course, the thing I'm most likely to compare Angel Cop to is just Akira, since so many specific elements from Akira have been...included, let's say.

Tangentially, knowing how sleezy Hollywood is can sour watching many films.

Agreed.

The sorry state of weeaboo degeneracy taints anime.

Agreed, but it's not tainting something pure; anime also taints anime. But look, I'm familiar with the plot beats of Lucky Star, I just forgot Konata's name; I'm not going to crucify you for liking it and I understand why you're defending it, but I disagree if you feel that it does not countenance and encompass degeneracy at the same time as commenting on it.

I found the arguments in Homosexuality in Ancient Greece: The Myth is Collapsing by Adonis A. Georgiades to be convincing. The ancient Greeks and Romans were not societies that glorified pederasty. Additionally, modern brain scans show straight men’s physiological stress response to seeing two men kissing is the same as seeing maggots. I think that revulsion is in the nature of men, hence would have been true in antiquity also.

I would take a look at the book if you recommend it. I'm not sure if it's from that book, but I'm not convinced by the universalizing argument you're putting forth; there are cultures where homosexual acts can become more normalized, as I understand it such things are common in Afghanistan under the name bacha bazi, unless I am misled on that. My issue is that your argument would equally discredit toleration of homosexuality in all human cultures, and yet there are some in which it exists despite the natural aversion. I could be open to the idea that the Greeks have been slandered on other grounds though.

Ted Kaczynski's thoughts are interesting. And he is a fruitful source of memes. I don't agree with his conclusions.

I altered his quote to reference agriculture, pushing back the fall of human civilization to its dawn. So not really engaging with his ideas but more using the meme to subtly point out that even if one can trace degeneracy back to the roots of all our culture...well, modus tollens, meet modus ponens. Either discard civilization wholly or learn to tolerate imperfection. We live our whole lives in the Fall of Man, may we not Hit the Ground.

Any particular reason you find the Japanese equivalent of Lorena Bobbitt/Aileen Wuornos instructive?

I'll preface this by saying that I don't have first hand familiarity with the cultural phenomenon, so this may be distorted by exoticization, or I just may have a skewed perspective; but my impression is that she became a mythic figure in a way those women didn't, Bobbitt is more of a punchline. According to the wiki article a transcript of her police interrogation became a national best seller. The idea is she illustrates a dysfunction in Japanese sexuality, and relations between the sexes.

I have seen many, including The Snow Queen that you posted further down the thread. Disney's™ Frozen is a mangling of that Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale.

A newer Russian animated movie I thought was worth watching is the 2011 Prince Ivan and the Grey Wolf | "Иван Царевич и Серый волк". It isn't a timeless masterpiece. More like a middle teir Don Bluth movie.

Thank you for the rec (and the honest review, Don Bluth has his merits; what you really have to watch out for is the Don Bluth movies not made by Don Bluth). The thing about Frozen, though, is that really true? I've actually managed not to see it, but from what I do know it would have to be a severely mangled adaptation.

Anyway, as for the rest, the Hollywood history was not news to me, but of course that influence spreads outward, in animation largely mediated by Disney; not only to Japan, but I believe it also influenced the Soviet industry, which of course complicates my point.

Do these men share any common traits we should be look for to suss out their deviousness?

Pol Pot was right about guys who wear glasses?

However, at the end of the day:

オタクの男性は気持ち悪い虫だね

A man with a Pinocchio pfp has spoken. What else now can be said?

 

[オプセック]

Pol Pot was right about guys who wear glasses?

Men with glass-holding noses... Evolved to accommodate the heaviest of pedo-glasses.

No, but seriously - the all look like creepers for some reason. Uncanny. Magnus Hirschfeld too.

My issue is that your argument would equally discredit toleration of homosexuality in all human cultures, and yet there are some in which it exists despite the natural aversion.

Big IF that aversion is even natural. Just playing devil's advocate here, don't anyone kiss me, plz.
I personally don't have that disgust response and was always bewildered by it.
A guy coming onto me is different, it's still not outright disgust, I'd say.
I always found guys who are hyper-reee about it sus themselves, tbh.
And the book about the greeks, I don't know. Sounds like contrarianism for it's own sake.

I'd guess it's just like today:
Many people don't care and then you have homohaters and homos fighting to the death over it.
Maybe the greeks were just out of haters and so it spread moar.

 

[UnidentifiedFlyingOrchid]

A very clever analogy to make your point. Of course, the thing I'm most likely to compare Angel Cop to is just Akira, since so many specific elements from Akira have been...included, let's say.

"Good artists copy; Great artists copy+paste"

Agreed, but it's not tainting something pure; anime also taints anime.

Nothing is truely pure.
I want the number of rat turds in my food to be below unsafe levels, and for there to be standards of wholesomeness. But, some vermin are trying to sneak in the maximum number of rat turds and force lower standards.

But look, I'm familiar with the plot beats of Lucky Star, I just forgot Konata's name; I'm not going to crucify you for liking it and I understand why you're defending it, but I disagree if you feel that it does not countenance and encompass degeneracy at the same time as commenting on it.

Hard to criticize a subject without exploring it. I briefly knew an idiot who said heroin seemed interesting after watching Trainspotting. Overt condemnation can still produce countenance.

Lucky Star is right on that cusp of the 2000s slide into degenerate slop (part of why I added it to my post). If by some miracle Japan cured the otaku "AIDs epidemic" instantly in 2007, I would imagine Lucky Star would now be seen as degenerate as Footloose. An oddity, with the danger unrealized.

I would take a look at the book if you recommend it.

It is available on https://archive.org/details/higmc

I'm not sure if it's from that book, but I'm not convinced by the universalizing argument you're putting forth; there are cultures where homosexual acts can become more normalized, as I understand it such things are common in Afghanistan under the name bacha bazi, unless I am misled on that. My issue is that your argument would equally discredit toleration of homosexuality in all human cultures, and yet there are some in which it exists despite the natural aversion.

The book doesn't use the aversion argument. I agree with you that different cultures have different preference and aversions. Simply witnessing Indias love of poo is convincing enough. The aversion argument presupposes Whites share a common in-built aversion to gay male kissing.

I could be open to the idea that the Greeks have been slandered on other grounds though

That is the books argument, yes. In 1978 Kenneth Dover published the book Greek Homosexuality. Wikipedia states: “The first modern scholarly work on its topic, Greek Homosexuality received some negative reviews but was enormously influential, helping to shape the views of other classicists.”
Georgiades argues against Dover's ideas in a logical manner. Simplistically, Dover's Greek Homosexuality theory lacks evidence.

I altered his quote to reference agriculture, pushing back the fall of human civilization to its dawn. So not really engaging with his ideas but more using the meme to subtly point out that even if one can trace degeneracy back to the roots of all our culture...well, modus tollens, meet modus ponens. Either discard civilization wholly or learn to tolerate imperfection. We live our whole lives in the Fall of Man, may we not Hit the Ground.

I would prefer a cultural Back-to-the-land movement over return to monke or a bottomless pit.

I'll preface this by saying that I don't have first hand familiarity with the cultural phenomenon, so this may be distorted by exoticization, or I just may have a skewed perspective; but my impression is that she became a mythic figure in a way those women didn't, Bobbitt is more of a punchline. According to the wiki article a transcript of her police interrogation became a national best seller. The idea is she illustrates a dysfunction in Japanese sexuality, and relations between the sexes

I would agree that relations between the sexes in Japan are noticeably different than European derived cultures. The discussion of functionality or dysfunctionality of relations between the sexes is certainly a bottomless pit. When women are celebrating chopping men's dicks off, I can safely say things are dysfunctional.

Thank you for the rec (and the honest review

Thank you for receiving it hospitably.

Don Bluth has his merits; what you really have to watch out for is the Don Bluth movies not made by Don Bluth).

The what now?

The thing about Frozen, though, is that really true? I've actually managed not to see it, but from what I do know it would have to be a severely mangled adaptation.

Wikipedia says so. I have witnessed Frozen playing in the background enough times to say it seems to be less accurate an adaptation of The Snow Queen than Lion King is to Hamlet. It has snow in it.

Anyway, as for the rest, the Hollywood history was not news to me, but of course that influence spreads outward, in animation largely mediated by Disney; not only to Japan, but I believe it also influenced the Soviet industry, which of course complicates my point.

Disney emanated everywhere.

Pol Pot was right about guys who wear glasses?

A man with a Pinocchio pfp has spoken. What else now can be said?

Top Comment:
I remember this series. It has so many gruesome, sad and violent moments - definitely not a kids show!