Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Jump]

Im a little curious now: if Starmer decides to declare war on Russia, would Parliament have his back?

I think he was hoping Trump would turn around after meeting the king frog and Z. But Z completely shit the bed here. I would hope Starmer can read the room and just let it go. Modern UK entering a fight is always conditional on the USA being there as a "backstop". That just isn't there now.

That's why I was spending my youth learning Engrish on forums instead of school.

If you had the foxnews interview that just ended now on, could you tell me if Zman's translator was speaking to him in Russian or Ukrainian?

 

[Alabama Gamer]

 

[Charred Dinosaur]

I think he was hoping Trump would turn around after meeting the king frog and Z. But Z completely shit the bed here. I would hope Starmer can read the room and just let it go. Modern UK entering a fight is always conditional on the USA being there as a "backstop". That just isn't there now.


If you had the foxnews interview that just ended now on, could you tell me if Zman's translator was speaking to him in Russian or Ukrainian?

Given that he muttered in Russian under his breath as he cursed Vance its safe to assume that like every Ukrainian East of Galicia he only speaks his broken dialect whenever he needs to make public speeches

 

[biglurker]

Forgive me for only reading the cliffnotes version of current events, but the man insulted the leaders of the country that gave him insane amounts of money, equipment, and weapons for nearly 11 years to their faces.
If it weren't for the efforts of America, Ukraine would be completely controlled by Russia today. A smart leader would argue that the US needs to take action drastic action, IE threaten direct US involvement. Everyone knows at this point Ukraine can not win the war alone, and has no hope retaking the territory it has lost for 100 years at least. A ceasefire alone would just mean Ukraine becomes Russia again the moment a weak US leader gets into power. Letting them take more than what they hold would easily reduce Ukraine to a useless rump state. Ukraine needs HUGE backing if it can hope to survive the coming decades. He knows they want the war to end, but insults them to their faces for daring to not continue the hopeless meatgrinder. Zelensky is both retarded and high off his own propaganda. Before today, I thought this war would end with Ukraine retaining land and not being reduced to a rump state. Unless something changes quickly, I doubt the entire country will even exist within 2 years max.
Hell, if I were Trump I would not just end weapon shipments but also pause all sanctions on Russia over this shit.

 

[JDS]

I'm sure everyone here is most interested in discussing recent diplomatic developments, but I'm wondering about the context in which they're taking place, in terms of concrete facts of how the war is going on the ground. I'd be grateful if anyone would be willing to give a rundown of how things stand for someone who has not been following closely for a while.

Full disclosure, I'm also posting this in the other thread; not trying to start shit, just being realistic that assessments may differ.

To elaborate a bit further on what @IKOL said.

From the end of autumn of 2022 this is a war of attrition and the only "realistic" hope for Ukraine is that some significant "black swan event" happens in Russia. During these three years something akin to it happened twice - mobilization in autumn 2022 and Prigozhin's march in 2023, both times "the system" withstood. So as long as Russia can supply more troops to the front with money incentive than Ukraine with bussification there is no realistic hope for Ukraine to have a "strong negotiation position" or moving the front in a meaningful way, and with pre-war population 1/3 of Russia's there are not a lot of chances.

 

[Gregis]

To elaborate a bit further on what @IKOL said.

From the end of autumn of 2022 this is a war of attrition and the only "realistic" hope for Ukraine is that some significant "black swan event" happens in Russia. During these three years something akin to it happened twice - mobilization in autumn 2022 and Prigozhin's march in 2023, both times "the system" withstood. So as long as Russia can supply more troops to the front with money incentive than Ukraine with bussification there is no realistic hope for Ukraine to have a "strong negotiation position" or moving the front in a meaningful way, and with pre-war population 1/3 of Russia's there are not a lot of chances.

Hm, given the attrition balance do you think that opening another front with the Kursk offensive was not conducive to Ukrainian war aims, in that it shortens their timelines? Or perhaps maintaining it gives some leverage in negotiations when it comes to territory?

 

[AllieKat]

Imagine calling people dodging conscription scum unwilling to fight for their country in the same thread with Vinny Mac and others?

By this broke brain hohol simps logic wouldn't they be scum as well?

 

[warhammerautist]

Thank you, Macron, for urging Trump to see Zelensky, we wouldn't have this peak entertainment to watch.

 

[AllieKat]

Thank you, Macron, for urging Trump to see Zelensky, we wouldn't have this peak entertainment to watch.

The eternal Francophone never disappoints

 

['Ole Dente]

Your cherished "democracy" was dead for centuries,, possibly millenias, old man.

Listen, you can scream in your flawed english all day at me, man. You can formulate as many points as you want, with whatever sources you want, you can bang and scream and stomp your feet in petulant rage…but one of us wears a track suit for leisurely wear and the other doesn’t even own one.

You just don’t have the cards, son.

 

[Homo neanderthalensis]

Regime change incoming...but not for Russia.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

To elaborate a bit further on what @IKOL said.

From the end of autumn of 2022 this is a war of attrition and the only "realistic" hope for Ukraine is that some significant "black swan event" happens in Russia. During these three years something akin to it happened twice - mobilization in autumn 2022 and Prigozhin's march in 2023, both times "the system" withstood. So as long as Russia can supply more troops to the front with money incentive than Ukraine with bussification there is no realistic hope for Ukraine to have a "strong negotiation position" or moving the front in a meaningful way, and with pre-war population 1/3 of Russia's there are not a lot of chances.

The plan from even before the war was to foment enough dissent within Russia for Western-backed groups to overthrow him. That was the entire plan. When it didn't immediately happen the Boris/Biden administrations were caught with their dicks in their hand.

 

[JDS]

Hm, given the attrition balance do you think that opening another front with the Kursk offensive was not conducive to Ukrainian war aims, in that it shortens their timelines? Or perhaps maintaining it gives some leverage in negotiations when it comes to territory?

I'm not a military expert, but from my point of view it was something like a Krynki operation (like draw off some capable troops (VDV and marines) from other places), plus making Putin retaliate in some unreasonable way to boost support for Ukraine and remove the "Global South" support/neutrality, plus instigating another possible "black swan".
It was a gamble and so far it didn't pay off in any meaningful way.

 

[IKOL]

If you had the foxnews interview that just ended now on, could you tell me if Zman's translator was speaking to him in Russian or Ukrainian?

Absolutely.

 

[Lukie]

Hm, given the attrition balance do you think that opening another front with the Kursk offensive was not conducive to Ukrainian war aims, in that it shortens their timelines? Or perhaps maintaining it gives some leverage in negotiations when it comes to territory?

IIRC the Russkies were aware of ~ 10k Ukie troops going off radar and thousands of citizens took trains out of Kursk.

The argument could be made that the regime were trying to use the power plant as a bargaining chip but the skirmish failed badly. Russia has opened up and area to slaughter them and burn them alive when they advanced and are now back to attrition tactics in the Kursk.

Another argument could be made that it was in the interests of the Biden administration to slaughter as many fighting aged Ukrainians as possible so they can reap the spoils and contracts without much pushback.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

one of us wears a track suit for leisurely wear and the other doesn’t even own one.

Lmao broke ass bitch.

 

[JDS]

Someone confirm if he's getting help in Russian or hohol pls.

From what I had heard (and many others native Russian speakers)- yes, it was Russian.

 

[Lookie-lou]

Hm, given the attrition balance do you think that opening another front with the Kursk offensive was not conducive to Ukrainian war aims, in that it shortens their timelines? Or perhaps maintaining it gives some leverage in negotiations when it comes to territory?

Kursk was just another optics stunt which has always been Ukrainians priority uno= To try and force those aforementioned Black Swan events to cascade into a political crisis in Moscow.

Ukraine's push into Kursk was going after the Kursk NPP to hold for demands, they failed miserably, took it out on some unarmed locals and dug in, and have been rushing into an open door firebag kill zone since to keep the 'winning' narrative up. Ukraine has been so belligerently hostile in its demands of the west because they always knew their fate is entirely tied to rapid and consistent Western aid. Optics and Western aid provided from said feel good optics was always always the entire scheme, They had the clocks and Russia has way more munitions and all the time in the world to push and even just -gasp- leave against overwhelming pressure as they saw fit.


Even Ukraine's best victory; Surprising the Russians around Kharkov in august 2022: had a dogshit ROI for Ukraine in the cost of blood they paid, at least when ignoring the media war they were waging against Russia. And if Russia had fought as tenaciously in open field defence as the Ukrainians at that moment: it never would have happened. But not for any good reason for Russia if you give a single fuck about how many of your own guys are dying holding the advancing force off.

 

[IKOL]

Listen, you can scream in your flawed english all day at me, man. You can formulate as many points as you want, with whatever sources you want, you can bang and scream and stomp your feet in petulant rage…but one of us wears a track suit for leisurely wear and the other doesn’t even own one.

You just don’t have the cards, son.

I have no idea in the slightest what your mumbling is supposed to mean. I don't care for you neither sorry if that happened.

 

[Jump]

Zman rambles on FoxNews while the host zones out and starts scrolling memes on tiktok.

I heard the Trump/Zman press disaster on the radio when it happened. I just now watched the video.
When Vance started going on about bussification of conscripts you can see Trump was clearly watching to see how Z would react.

Like someone already said a few pages back. This isn't 5d chess. This is basic bitch Good cop/Bad cop stuff. Zman completely screwed it up. Even if Vance was being completely out of line the only correct move for Zman would have been to shut the fuck up. Zman's coked up mind somehow thought he could get Trump to side with him over his VP. It was completely over after that.


>He's not speaking loudly
Hoholbro's. ITS FUCKING OVER.
Have fun getting the europoors to show up and help now with out the US "Backstop"

Even the #1 warhawk Graham has turned on Zman. Its over.