Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fapcop]

What does Russia even want with Ukraine?

Russia has more territory than they know what to do with. It’s not about territory it’s about two things. Security and the Russian minority.

1. Ukraine has (had) the second largest army in Europe. With Ukraine in NATO, that would mean the possibility of nuclear missiles a few hundred kilometers from Moscow. That’s a security threat that Russia can’t live with given their experience from WW2. Consider how America would react if Mexico or Cuba joined an anti-American alliance. (Shit, the US almost started WW3 over similar reasons in ‘63.)

2. Ukraine east of Dniepr is populated by Russians (culturally and language-vise). Ukraines started a brutal “anti terrorism operation) in 2014, suppressing their civil and political rights. Russia wanted their language rights to be respected (Which btw they’re fully entitled to according to EU standards.) and for the eastern Oblasts to have increased autonomy while still remaining in Ukraine. Something Kiev initially agreed to, and then subsequently went back on.

Because as far as I can parse the deal is U.S. access to REMs in exchange for troops and support.

Nah. There was nothing in terms of neither troops nor security guarantees in the deal. The closest was a vague formulation that “The US would support Ukraine getting security guarantees” elsewhere.

The deal was mostly meaningless in terms of mineral rights and other income sources too, and wasn’t legally binding. It was basically a framework for future, further discussions, and a way Trump could say: “Hey we got something out of it!” Trump knew that Zelensky (or his successor) would likely go back on it first chance he got, so when Z acted like a tard, it wasn’t a big loss.

Ukraine keeps its minerals,

Mind you: Minerals that nobody really knows whether exists or not, nor if they’re possible to extract.

As I recall, a recent studies by American geologists cast doubt on the old, Soviet surveys that the whole “BILLIONS OF DOLLARSNOF MINERALS!”-nonsense is based on.

 

[Lookie-lou]

Caeseropapism is a common issue in Orthodoxy. We even have a meme for it.

Neo-Champa when? I mean they have at least a thousand times more cultural receipts than banderism after all. And by went I mean fuck your stupid get lost in the weeds BS.

 

[Fapcop]

to be clear I am not a fan of Putin either, I do not like how he plays at caeseropapism with the Russian Orthodox Church.

It’s another culture and a totally different branch of Christianity. (There are some really big doctrinal differences between Catholicism and the Orthodox Church.)

Religion and political leadership has been closely tied together throughout Russian history. Putin isn’t doing anything new, he’s going back to their roots.

And personally I think “God is with us, our cause is just’, and going into battle holding an historic Russian flag featuring Christ is a lot more appealing than communist propaganda.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I am not an expert, but I believe Zelensky made a big mistake. He walked into a trap. Trump and Vance have cracked him. It was a classic setup: Vance started being antagonistic with Zelensky, Zelensky pushed back and then Trump joined in and took control of the situation. Also there were US politicians asking questions unfavourable to Zelensky as a backup. This was well thought out beforehand. Even if you hate Trump or disagree with him you have to respect his negotiation skills.

If you watched the coverage before, no. Zelensky just is rude the entire time, not understanding that you can’t go to the negotiating table calling your opponent a monster. You can have a proxy do it, but not you.

Trump and Vance literally -to his face tell him that he’s being a fucking idiot and does not know how to negotiate.

 

[Nicholas II of Russia]

It’s another culture and a totally different branch of Christianity. (There are some really big doctrinal differences between Catholicism and the Orthodox Church.)

Religion and political leadership has been closely tied together throughout Russian history. Putin isn’t doing anything new, he’s going back to their roots.

And personally I think “God is with us, our cause is just’, and going into battle holding an historic Russian flag featuring Christ is a lot more appealing than communist propaganda.

Amen my brother.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

What's funny is that I was originally neutral with a slight bias towards Ukraine, but over the past three years, the absolute insanity of the Pro-Ukies gradually made me hate them. I think them cheering on the Crocus Terror Attack was the final straw for me.

You speedran the average Russian experience on Internet of dealing with hohols. Now, imagine doing it for 15 years

 

[Male Idiot]

The man seems to have a gun pointed at his head from who is speculation, some here would say the hardliners in the government and army but I think there are bigger players at work.

He was willing to come to an agreement three years ago until he listened to the British and was even elected with promise to end hostilities in Ukraine. So he's not a completely unreasonable character.

So his current behaviour is bizarre to say the least.

I know (((they))) are the usual suspects, but why not the eternal anglo? Bojo and Stramer are neck deep into this.

There has been a lot going on. To newcomers, this started with the Democrats and neocons trying to do Cuba 2: Reverse boogaloo in the Ukraine.

This made a very basic balkans minor territory slav slapfight into the next Totes Armagedddon Demokracy stop Putler/Trumpler hill for the Dems and their EU stooges who still are in power, to die on.

Western Europe went all in on the astroturf and eastern europe went bloodthirsty for Barbarossa 2.0 and/or got fucked without cheap Russian resources.

The Ukraine started going all propaganda war, both posturing as the true inheritors of the 3rd Reich (pissing off any skinheads and eu /pol/posters meanwhile simping for Soros/Blackrock/Biden/Zelensky the Jew, while also larping as Democracy's final defenders of LGBT all the while szealing aid money or throwing it away for propaganda aims for little actual gain.

Combine this with the arrogance of EUcrats and US boomers saying they are invincible caused the most annoying alliance ever to form. Team Ukro is like vegans, bikers, lolberts, cryptobros all teaming up for giga cringe, gloating at Russian orks and their non working nukes and 60s tanks being obliterated by a single EU/US wonderweapon that made sure in 2 weeks (TM) Russia, I mean the Soviet Union with Hitler in charge, will inevitably collapse just about now.

This ruined EU economy, made the Ukraine into a wasteland of dead men, and ignored reality to ludicrous degrees.

 

[オプセック]

Idiot. The entire point of the three day thing was to demonstrate that resistance is futile as Russia could easily conquer Ukraine no matter what they have. A lesson that was ignored and slowly and painfully learned over the course of three years.

Russia just played retarded, I swear!

And what about those valuable spec ops getting killed at the airport? Was that just to make putin more believable? And what about other squanders and misses? Holy shit, why are you like the ukranians on this one hill?

 

[White_N]

Zelensky's behaviour at the White House has made US help almost impossible - Lindsey Graham

This is extremely dangerous to our democracy

 

[オプセック]

With the heavy death toll involved any leader with more then 3.6 braincells would recognize that their nation faces death and slaughter and would've surrendered right away to give their people the best chance available.

That was clear to anyone, but Z-man.
But I'm sure that Putin tried to blitz 'em, when he tried to blitz 'em.
Sure, he didn't think that nato would dump more men and supplies into it.
He counted on this being to outrageous, even if the blitz failed,
it would paralyze western leaders, he didn't foresee them actually being bat shit insane.

But that initial "special military operation" was def. a military blunder all right.
To have a mechanized spear head that far into enemy territory...
They thought the average hohol would greet them with open arms, but instead they gave banderite babushkas javelins.
And now we're here.

Actually, the successful push back against the attack on kiev, is what emboldened them.
Putin gave all these insane, Ukrainian volunteers the idea that it's possible by going full retard special oooperation with it.
Had he just held the line and increased pressure, they couldn't have told people that:
1. He wants to take it all.
2.Holy shit, we can do it, like the ewoks from episode 6!

 

[Legalize Asbestos]

The amount of people in my life who seem to believe in this white and black rhetoric concept of the Russo-Ukie war made me realize that the propaganda media monster is still in full effect. Then again, I live in Canada

'I support the current thing' is still beating strong in the heart of the Great Brown North.

At this point I'm just calling it genetic. This is just who our retarded neighbours are as a species. I don't know if it's all the Scottish admixture or what.

 

[Fapcop]

Hohol-bros… I don’t feel so good rn!

 

[Mr Bunny]

I know (((they))) are the usual suspects, but why not the eternal anglo? Bojo and Stramer are neck deep into this.

I agree. I even made a post 50 pages back on what might be the main driving force behind Britain behaviour.

If anyone wants to understand the UK's stance in relation to anything to do with Europe. Their stance is to keep Europe a clustfuck and divide among themselves and making sure no one comes out on top.

Right now the EU is weak so the Russians have the chance to be a major player in European politics. So the UK stands against Russia.

When France was the major player in Europe who was an UK ally? Russian Empire.
When Germany was the major player in Europe (twice) who was an UK ally? Russian Empire & Soviet Union.

When France was no longer the major player in Europe, who became their enemy? Russian Empire.
When Germany was no longer the major player in Europe, who became their enemy? Soviet Union.

View attachment 7008641

Britain desire to keep Europe a cluster fuck should be a meme. It's up there with the U.S. and oil and Russia with warm water ports.

 

[Fapcop]

But that initial "special military operation" was def. a military blunder all right.
To have a mechanized spear head that far into enemy territory...

The Russians miscalculated.

The whole thing was supposed to be a shock and awe thing, forcing the Ukrainians to concessions or at least uphold the Minsk
Accords. It wasn’t meant to start a long, or short war.

(Note how Russia didn’t annex Donetsk and Luhansk until the year after. And how they “invaded” Ukraine with a force far too small to conquer it.)

And it almost worked. A deal was initialed in Istanbul by the Ukrainian delegation giving up zero land. And then Boris Johnson flew into Kiev.

The blunder was underestimating how little Zelensky cares for his fellow Ukrainians, and not realizing how retarded European leaders are.

 

[NevskyProspekt]

There are some really big doctrinal differences between Catholicism and the Orthodox Church.

Not necessarily. The Eastern Catholic Churches (including the Russian Greek Catholic Church) in union with Rome have their own canons and traditions that largely align theologically with the Orthodox Church (outside of the disagreement regarding ecclesiology, of course). There is a very, very large number of post-Schism Orthodox saints who are recognized as such by the Catholic Church (St. Seraphim of Sarov and even St. Gregory Palamas in some of the Eastern Catholic Churches, for example).

 

[Goodstuff Goose]

Umm, so, seeing as how the deal wasn't signed, that means Ukraine will lose access to Starlink now, right?

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

Funny enough I think this is one of those times (((they))) aren't the big players but it's the British. They're policy to Europe is to keep it a cluster fuck.

The fact that what happened recently is because Zelensky was basically trying to get want the British wanted which was American boots on the ground under the name "security guarantees" gives me the impression that's it's the British who want this war to keep going and don't want any trade deals or peace established.

Don’t you mean the (((British)))?
Look up two-tier Keir’s wife and BoJo’s family background.

I’m convinced this entire war and continuing escalation is part of the plan to exterminate white people.

 

[Mr Bunny]

Don’t you mean the (((British)))?
Look up two-tier Keir’s wife and BoJo’s family background.

I’m convinced this entire war and continuing escalation is part of the plan to exterminate white people.

No because Zion Don would be joining in on the escalation. (((They))) Are far more interested securing their gains in the middle east for the greater Israel project.

 

[Nopenopenope]

Here I was thinking maybe it's not so bad. Then I see shit like this:

View attachment 7040643

No. People have been shitting on his "war president" look the entire time. It's a big funny deal now because it was specifically mentioned. If he was wearing a good suit and the meeting went fine, nobody would be saying anything about him wearing a suit....other than maybe "Oh wow, he dressed for the occasion finally".

He needs to put on the burger suit, Trump would have loved that.

 

[moocow]

However what I'm witnessing is a full court press on the notion that Trump is an unhinged moron and Zelensky can do no wrong, which is why I seek to understand what drove them to this level of devotion to Zelensky.

For one thing, they hate Trump, and will take any chance they can to smear him.

For another, they're not just "heavily invested" in the war -- they're neck-deep in some of the most corrupt and crooked shit imaginable, and if (more like "when") Russia claims back all that territory, they'll have a lot of proof of what was going on and all that income will vanish overnight for these scumbags.

When I say "crooked shit," I'm talking about money laundering, bioweapon research (not joking), sex trafficking, all sorts of nasty shit. Just like all the different federal agencies shitting bricks because they're suddenly under a microscope, the people funding (and using) that shithole are shitting their pants right now too. That's where this fervor comes from. They don't give a shit about Z. They just don't want their own secrets exposed by the Russians when they win.