Argue about shoes and economics

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

I understand American goods will always be more expensive due to labor laws (aka not using slave labor) but as a budget conscious consumer I'm willing to eat that extra price if the quality makes up for it. For example I bought those made in USA new balance and they're sturdier and last longer than any Chinese crap I've ever had to buy. Sure they're a bit more but the price is worth it. Places like harbor freight really show the insane mark up for shitty Chinese made junk (I know they own their own labels and are private but the point still stands).



And for a land of immigrants, I see no issues allowing (legal) immigration to fill those factories if we have a labor shortage. of course they should accept the USA as though it were their own but that goes without saying.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

This is a big deal people are overlooking. As the largest consumer base in the world we have the power to end the remaining slavery in the world without firing a shot. We have the power to fix environmental pollution world wide and push humanity towards quality goods that can actually be reused and recycled instead of cancer causing plastic crap that will pollute the earth for 1000 generations. These are not pie in the sky hippy ideals this is a real possibility within our lifetimes.

Looking at it the other way a lot of the pain and suffering in the world has been and continues to be our fault and we owe it not just the world but ourselves and our children to course correct or it will inevitably lead to resource wars.

The big question is: would you (the average American) pay more for a superior product or less for a similar but inferior product? A shovel is a shovel so why should I buy the more expensive (made in America) one when I can get the cheaper (made in China) one and accomplish the same goals with each?

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

The big question is: would you (the average American) pay more for a superior product or less for a similar but inferior product? A shovel is a shovel so why should I buy the more expensive (made in America) one when I can get the cheaper (made in China) one and accomplish the same goals with each?

Because the cheap Chinese-made ones break after one use and that's fucking annoying. Many Americans want to BIFL, but Chinese firms try to convince us that "fast fashion" is cool so they can sell us their cheap shit.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Because the cheap Chinese-made ones break after one use and that's fucking annoying. Many Americans want to BIFL, but Chinese firms try to convince us that "fast fashion" is cool so they can sell us their cheap shit.

I always find the quality of shoes now funny, these people wear foam boots and then wonder why they need to buy shoes every 3 months. We don't even make repairable shoes anymore, do cobblers even still exist?

 

[Sneedifarms]

We don't even make repairable shoes anymore

Yes we do, goodyear welted shoes have been a thing since forever. If you want work boots, Red Wing is probably the most readily affordable option. If you're looking for dress shoes, there are a billion brands, though most of them manufacture in Europe and the UK with the exception of American brands like Alden.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Yes we do, goodyear welted shoes have been a thing since forever. If you want work boots, Red Wing is probably the most readily affordable option. If you're looking for dress shoes, there are a billion brands, though most of them manufacture in Europe and the UK with the exception of American brands like Alden.

Dude the first car I bought cost 500 bucks and it's supposed to be fine to me that that's what a pair of shoes that used to be the standard costs?

 

[Sneedifarms]

Dude the first car I bought cost 500 bucks and it's supposed to be fine to me that that's what a pair of shoes that used to be the standard costs?

If you bought that car used, you should be fine with buying those shoes used too. Also, goodyear welted shoes may have been the standard, but they’ve never been cheap. People paid more for better things when GYW was the standard, and if you want the same you should expect to do the same too (and then some, considering the demand for GYW shoes has considerably shrunk and it no longer has the economies of scale it used to have).

 

[Toy Soldier]

If you bought that car used, you should be fine with buying those shoes used too. Also, goodyear welted shoes may have been the standard, but they’ve never been cheap. People paid more for better things when GYW was the standard, and if you want the same you should expect to do the same too (and then some, considering the demand for GYW shoes has considerably shrunk and it no longer has the economies of scale it used to have).

The idea that the cost of a pair of shoes being the same as what used to be a used car is hand waved away is fucking crazy to me, alright, they weren't cheap when they were the norm, WERE THEY THE SAME PRICE AS A FUCKING HORSE OR CARRIAGE? I BET YOU THEY FUCKING WEREN'T.

 

[Sneedifarms]

The idea that the cost of a pair of shoes being the same as what used to be a used car is hand waved away is fucking crazy to me, alright, they weren't cheap when they were the norm, WERE THEY THE SAME PRICE AS A FUCKING HORSE OR CARRIAGE? I BET YOU THEY FUCKING WEREN'T.

Goodyear welting didn’t exist pre-industrialization. The average person wore uncomfortable cobbled shoes put together from scraps of leather that were un-resoleable. The very wealthy wore bespoke hand-welted shoes, which you can still buy today for about $3-6000.

Also, love how we’re conveniently hand-waving away inflation as a major part of costs. If you’re not willing to pay more for American/Western made products that can be repaired, just say so and stick to Chinese Nikes.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Goodyear welting didn’t exist pre-industrialization. The average person wore uncomfortable cobbled shoes put together from scraps of leather that were un-resoleable. The very wealthy wore bespoke hand-welted shoes, which you can still buy today for about $3-6000.

Also, love how we’re conveniently hand-waving away inflation as a major part of costs. If you’re not willing to pay more for American/Western made products that can be repaired, just say so and stick to Chinese Nikes.

Again, what's with this attitude of "just pay them pleb!" instead of "yeah we should produce more of these things to drive costs down, this is ridiculous." who the fuck are you.
THEY'RE SHOES. THEY SHOULDN'T BE 600 DOLLARS, AM I THE ONLY SANE PERSON ON EARTH? AND THEN WE WONDER WHY NOBODY BUYS THE FUCKING THINGS?

 

[Sneedifarms]

Again, what's with this attitude of "just pay them pleb!" instead of "yeah we should produce more of these things to drive costs down, this is ridiculous." who the fuck are you.
THEY'RE SHOES. THEY SHOULDN'T BE 600 DOLLARS, AM I THE ONLY SANE PERSON ON EARTH?

Nevermind producing more, the bigger problem is many of these brands are struggling to find the skilled labor required to produce these sorts of shoes. Maine used to have a huge shoemaking industry that has all but shrunken to a handful of struggling brands due to lack of labor and lack of demand. Who’s going to magically solve this problem? You?

Quality shoes have always been expensive. The material required for them is expensive, the skilled labor costs are high, and it doesn’t benefit from any major economies of scale because of how niche it is. If you think you have the solutions to these problems, feel free to go and revolutionize the shoemaking industry on your own.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Nevermind producing more, the bigger problem is many of these brands are struggling to find the skilled labor required to produce these sorts of shoes. Maine used to have a huge shoemaking industry that has all but shrunken to a handful of struggling brands due to lack of labor and lack of demand. Who’s going to magically solve this problem? You?

Quality shoes have always been expensive. The material required for them is expensive, the skilled labor costs are high, and it doesn’t benefit from any major economies of scale because of how niche it is. If you think you have the solutions to these problems, feel free to go and revolutionize the shoemaking industry on your own.

This is all bullshit, leather doesn't cost that much, cork doesn't cost that much, stitching doesn't cost that much, staples don't cost that much, are you telling me seriously that you think these shoes cost anywhere near 600 dollars to manufacture? They're upcharging by hundreds of percentage points because we all just, like you, for some reason, agree that we should all be fucked economically as much as possible. The more infuriating thing is you DEFENDING THIS AS A PRACTICE.

 

[Nobunaga]

THEY'RE SHOES. THEY SHOULDN'T BE 600 DOLLARS, AM I THE ONLY SANE PERSON ON EARTH? AND THEN WE WONDER WHY NOBODY BUYS THE FUCKING THINGS?

Because niggers and retards pay 600 bucks for them.
You can get a pair of bootleg jordans made by the same machines, same materials (and sometimes even better), made by the same underage chink slaves for 50 bucks

 

[Toy Soldier]

There's an "initial-d tax" but with reliable bullet proof cars instead of shitty mangled up ricers.


They aren't using pig leather, plywood cork. and nylon string.

I have a belt that was put together by an amishman for 40 bucks that was hand stitched and made of full grain leather, shut the fuck up.

 

[Sneedifarms]

lol nice sidestep.

I’m pointing out that you don’t actually know what the material costs are considering you don’t know what’s involved in the construction.

Also, may I remind you that New Balance has a MiUSA line that, in spite of being made entirely of foam, suede, and cloth, still costs $200 on average? That’s just how much skilled American labor costs.

did people forget training exists or something?

Young people are not interested in training to become shoemakers. Wages are poor by first world standards and it’s neither rewarding nor glamorous work.

 

[Toy Soldier]

I’m point out that you don’t actually know what the material costs are considering you don’t know what’s involved in the construction.

Also, may I remind you that New Balance has a MiUSA line that, in spite of being made entirely of foam, suede, and cloth, still costs $200 on average? That’s just how much skilled American labor costs.

Young people are not interested in training to become shoemakers. Wages are poor by first world standards and it’s neither rewarding nor glamorous work.

WHY ARE THE WAGES POOR WHEN THEIR PRODUCTS SELL FOR 600 FUCKING DOLLARS

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

This is all bullshit, leather doesn't cost that much, cork doesn't cost that much, stitching doesn't cost that much, staples don't cost that much, are you telling me seriously that you think these shoes cost anywhere near 600 dollars to manufacture? They're upcharging by hundreds of percentage points because we all just, like you, for some reason, agree that we should all be fucked economically as much as possible. The more infuriating thing is you DEFENDING THIS AS A PRACTICE.

Are you seriously continuing this argument you had with me in GenChat with someone else here? Good God, man.

 

[Sneedifarms]

I have a belt that was put together by an amishman for 40 bucks that was hand stitched and made of full grain leather, shut the fuck up.

Sounds like you should invest in taking advantage of the Amish to produce a shoemaker brand that undercuts the rest of them, since you seem to think you’ve found some sort of secret to cheap production costs.

WHY ARE THE WAGES POOR WHEN THEIR PRODUCTS SELL FOR 600 FUCKING DOLLARS

It’s almost like $600 is a pittance compared to the amount of labor required to produce the shoes themselves.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Are you seriously continuing this argument you had with me in GenChat with someone else here? Good God, man.

I was quoting this argument to you, retard, this started before you got here.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Sounds like you should invest in taking advantage of the Amish to produce a shoemaker brand that undercuts the rest of them, since you seem to think you’ve found some sort of secret to cheap production costs.


It’s almost like $600 is a pittance compared to the amount of labor required to produce the shoes themselves.

You have some sort of fetish for being abused iono' what this is.