Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

This is dumb. Sorry.

Conscription in Russia serves two purposes.

1: Take up tasks that frees the contract soldiers and professional soldiers to be used elsewhere more effectively, and:

2: Give young men the basic skills and military experience so they can serve effectively if there is a war and they get drafted.

(And since the SMO is well… A special military operation and not a war, they’re not getting drafted.)

If you can’t tell the difference between spending a year in Volgograd learning to handle weapons, dig trenches and get fit, and being sent into bloody battle for three years as a contract soldier, I don’t really know what to tell you.

The two aren’t even necessarily linked, except for the part where Russia has a broad base of possible volunteers they can draw on, who they don’t need to teach how to disassemble an AK or throw a grenade, since they likely already tried.
I already said that I only had a rough understanding of how Russia's mandatory service requirement works and my opinion is based on personal experience from the last time the US had mandatory service. I would support a mandatory service requirement for the reasons you listed if I didn't live in a country that's devolved to a state where constant war somewhere is required for our economy to function.

I'm just pointing out from an outsider's perspective how dumb it looks to see people arguing over the semantics "conscription", "mobilization", "draft", etc, when they're all the same thing to Westerners.
 
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When did Zelensky make the announcement intending to boost voluntary recruitment? Does anyone know?
It’s was a week or two ago.

They rolled out a program with lots of promises: Decent pay, education, cheap house loans and short term contracts along with promises of demobilization once their contract is up.

Nobody believes him of course, given how conscripts are treated and how they don’t pay the promised death bonuses to relatives.

Shit, the fact that they have made it illegal for 18 year olds to leave the country kinda sends a very different signal.

I already said that I only had a rough understanding of how Russia's mandatory service requirement works and my opinion is based on personal experience from the last time the US had mandatory service. I would support a mandatory service requirement for the reasons you listed if I didn't live in a country that's devolved to a state where constant war somewhere is required for our economy to function.

I'm just pointing out from an outsider's perspective how dumb it looks to see people arguing over the semantics "conscription", "mobilization", "draft", etc, when they're all the same thing to Westerners.
Meh, fair enough.

It’s more of an conscripts AND contract soldier thing, but I get your point.

I think it’s more America and well, certain European countries. In my country everyone draws a number when they’re 18, and if the number is low enough, they get to serve a year or two as conscripts doing basic service.

Boomers would probably understand. Most of the conscript systems in many countries got trashed after the GWOT, and the assumption that western armies would be fighting farmers in flip flops until democracy finally triumphed.
 
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me be like watching this thread sometimes.
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Conscription in Russia serves two purposes.
Up until 2022, conscription in Russia served 1 purpose - teach young men who are too dumb to get into university, and too poor to figure out a way to bribe their way out of conscriptability, the correct way to paint grass green and do other virtually pointless shit.

Every single guy I know who went through it, minus one, got to fire maybe 1 mag total at the firing range in their whole tenure in the army. The one exception was a guy who got selected into a relatively elite combat-intensive role.
 
Every single guy I know who went through it, minus one, got to fire maybe 1 mag total at the firing range in their whole tenure in the army. The one exception was a guy who got selected into a relatively elite combat-intensive role.
As long as they haven't had to be on company quarter watch duty and clean up the toilets every time it's their time to perform the watch duties their service was lucky. I knew quite a number of less fortunate folks, some of them were contract soldiers too... Sigh.
Also, funny thing to say but, why would you want to shoot from some AK when there's whole ass tank cannon you're operating as a part of the crew?
That was the logic of our commanders during my service, though I was at the contract based service. And yet conscripts were having same amount of tank shooting as we have had all because our brigade was quite invested in actual practice and we had a whole ass polygon dedicated strictly to us. Which is nice at some point but makes your service kind of a suffering if your company or batallion are infantry or tank ones. Or engineers, if you're extra unlucky.
 
It’s both. Yes, there is a general one year of basic service for young men, but Russia relies exclusively on professional contract soldiers in Ukraine.
Afraid not. I can tell you a thing or two about the initial (and so far the only one) draft wave because I witnessed it first hand.

It was announced in the summer of 2022 after the Istanbul talks in spring failed and it became obvious Ukraine has called Putin's bluff, so the gloves had to come off. The reservists (aka every male aged 25-40 who had completed the obligatory 1 or 2 year term when they were 1 8 started finding summons to active duty in ther mailboxes, taped to their doors or, in a few rare cases, delivered by nice people in uniform in person. This stirred the society something fierce: a lot of the younger crowd, mostly IT-sector and skilled white collar workers, fled to the -stans and whatever European country they could reach, easy enough thing to do when you are working remotely and for a European company anyway. Others took advantage of the exemption from active duty provided to military factory workers, medical staff and critial inrastructure engineers. Some plainly ignored the summons and...

Nothing happened. The borders remained opened, nobody was detained at the airports, nobody got shoved into a bus while walking their poor dog like those unfortunate Ukrainian bastards and nobody even got fined for not showing up to the recruitment station, although the government did implement the digital summons reform that makes it impossible to say you never received the paper because post office. No second wave of mobilization followed, a year went by, many of the panicked emigrants (though not all) returned because nobody wanted Russians either in Europe or in the -stans. Technically, the mobilization has never been cancelled and is still ongoing, but it's been two years since anyone got drafted. They switched exclusively to volunteers after that, provided an extremely fat paycheck and so far it has been working. Nobody is protesting, although the majority of the populace is still unhappy with the conflict - for different reasons.

Except a personal friend of mine, the poor bastard, decided not to leave because he still believed the war would last three more months tops and he would be home by Christmas and actually showed up at the training center. It's been two years and he is still in the trenches, shooting at Baba Yaga drones that try to drop TNT charges on their positions at night. He's a completely different person now: lost weight, has a wild look in his eyes and complains about dissociating. Can't blame him, being ordered to collect headless corpses afrer an assault gone horribly wrong does funny things to people. I am doing my best to support him, but watching a friend develop PTSD in real time is not fun. I hope he makes it.

Notably, the draftees are used to hold positions and to man trenches. The assault brigades, where the losses are the highest, consist largely of the contract soldiers. By the way, drones do 80% of the work, and Ukrainians produce them on their own, so they are not as dependent on the American help as one might think. On the other hand, the US is providing Patriot missiles and AA-defense, so there is a reason Zelensky started yapping about "peace in the air" after Trump pulled the plug on the deliveries.

I want the war to end, I want my best friend back in one piece so we can fix his head, and I am extremely skeptical of any and all claims of peace being around the corner or the inevitable Russian victory until it starts translating into fewer bombs falling on him. I'd cross my fingers, but I've been keeping them crossed for a while now and nothing happened.
 
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Conscription is ongoing, mobilization-like our American draft-happened only once during the SMO to date. Russia is having no problem attracting contract soldiers due to generous terms and pay. There are also PMCs operating but after the Wagner debacle I don't know much about those. There are also convicts who get their sentence reduced or outright dismissed if they sign and fulfill a contract. Ахмат I don't know much about them either but I assume they're recruited in Chechenia by Kadyrov's people.
 
Yeah, I kinda feel you on that, you already had to hate z-man to get into that whole spit-roast vibe, I can see how that whole kabuki number might have alienated some people - but on the other hand, anyone who still rooted for z-man is probably just an unhinged warhawk and/or complete imbecile, so the mob routine was probably "without alternative", as Merkel would've said.
I think it was clumsy. My guess is they'd already agreed to dress him down in front of the media and hoped they'd bait him into reacting badly, but he didn't and it just made them look like children.

IMO Trump and co way overplayed their hand here, and it's sent Z over to Europe to beg for more war bucks, which he's now got, and risks the whole bullshit blowing up again. Last week I was hopeful for a peaceful future but unless another dramatic U-turn happens (it's only March!) then the average life expectancy of Europe is going to continue it's gradual decline.....
The point is that Zelensky and Ukraine as a whole are Trump's bitches. As is the entirety of EU.
And all of them needed a reminder of this fact. Besides, what you're gonna do about it?
Sure, but now Europe are going to try and bring a Crusade to rescue Fair Maiden Ukraine, and it's going to get ugly.
 
Yes, Ferdinand Porsche sperged for years about his electrical drive tank.

It was a shit idea then, and it’s a shit idea now. Russians are blowing up the power grids left and right, how the F would the logistics work during a war?
I don't know much about tanks developed during WW2, but you don't seem to understand what gasoline-electric means. It doesn't mean a plug-in hybrid, it means an engine rotating at a constant RPM (most effective range) riding a generator, which in turn drives an electric motor. With the optional battery buffer. Like most non-electric trains these days, or a bunch of heavy ships (some still drive the propeller directly).
So they don't need an electric network, they need fuel.
 
Here is a German general from 1919 laughing about creating Ukraine through propaganda and plainly stating Ukraine is fake, gay and definitely retarded.
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He might have created the fictional border of Ukraine but then the Soviets did nothing to dismantle it. Same as Africa or the former Spanish Empire.
 
I don't know much about tanks developed during WW2, but you don't seem to understand what gasoline-electric means. It doesn't mean a plug-in hybrid, it means an engine rotating at a constant RPM (most effective range) riding a generator, which in turn drives an electric motor. With the optional battery buffer. Like most non-electric trains these days, or a bunch of heavy ships (some still drive the propeller directly).
So they don't need an electric network, they need fuel.
Yea I know what a hybrid vehicle is, but if you seriously think that they won’t try to come up with all sorts of retarded battery powered “green” military vehicles in clownworld, you haven’t been paying attention the past decade or two.

Shit, the Pentagon had numerous “green transition” program in the works prior to Trump coming in. Given that Europeans are even more retarded with this stuff, just wait and see.
 
My guess is they'd already agreed to dress him down in front of the media and hoped they'd bait him into reacting badly, but he didn't and it just made them look like children.
Pretty interesting that you picked up on that too, I thought I was almost alone with that, I also think that vance actually wanted to make him go full cow on live TV, but he blundered and let Trump do too much talking. He was pretty aggressive with that whole body-snatcher thing when he tried to get that topic in, but Z-man didn't really bite and then Trump did his thing...
Tho, I didn't think Trump looked any more or less childish than he does otherwise - he seemed a little more acute and quick than usual, because he probably enjoyed doing this. Actually, I did enjoy that whole dressing down of z-man, regardless of cheesiness, but yes, it wasn't enough of an humiliation it seems, but then z-bro might be trapped, even threatened behind closed doors, who knows how much say he even has... I do think you are right and that they wanted to get him to flip out on them and it just didn't take. And I also didn't realize - to make shit thread relevant again - how invested in the war the euros suddenly are - first the U.S. could barely talk them into sending a few left over tanks, now they almost seem as if they are as delusional as z-bro himself... and I have peeps in germany - not outright worried yet, but it's getting there.
 
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Yea I know what a hybrid vehicle is, but if you seriously think that they won’t try to come up with all sorts of retarded battery powered “green” military vehicles in clownworld, you haven’t been paying attention the past decade or two.

Shit, the Pentagon had numerous “green transition” program in the works prior to Trump coming in. Given that Europeans are even more retarded with this stuff, just wait and see.
You could solve this with "power packs". The propulsion of the vehicles are electric, and you can slot in either a battery or a diesel turbine to provide the electricity. For peace time and exercises you'd use the battery, in war time you switch to the diesel turbines. Tanks already use interchangeable power packs like that and replacing the power pack is a matter of hours, the only difference here is that fewer moving parts to transfer energy from the gearbox to the drive sprocket means improved reliability, and since the tanks can be electric during peace time, your army would be a lot more green 99% of the time, without losing the range benefits diesel engines offer during wartime.
 
Pretty interesting that you picked up on that too, I thought I was almost alone with that, I also think that vance actually wanted to make him go full cow on live TV, but he blundered and let Trump do too much talking. He was pretty aggressive with that whole body-snatcher thing when he tried to get that topic in, but Z-man didn't really bite and then Trump did his thing...
Tho, I didn't think Trump looked any more or less childish than he does otherwise - he seemed a little more acute and quick than usual, because he probably enjoyed doing this. Actually, I did enjoy that whole dressing down of z-man, regardless of cheesiness, but yes, it wasn't enough of an humiliation it seems, but then z-bro might be trapped, even threatened behind closed doors, who knows how much say he even has... I do think you are right and that they wanted to get him to flip out on them and it just didn't take. And I also didn't realize - to make shit thread relevant again - how invested in the war the euros suddenly are - first the U.S. could barely talk them into sending a few left over tanks, now they almost seem as if they are as delusional as z-bro himself... and I have peeps in germany - not outright worried yet, but it's getting there.
Oh I'm sure it was picked up upon by just about everyone, but maybe the play will work. We'll see if Trump doubles down in his SOTU tonight.
 
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