Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Battlefield2142EU]

The decline of fake geek culture is evident even in the decline of superhero movies, and it's also affecting the popularity of Dungeons and Dragons 5.5. 5E tourists are not moving on to the new system. We keep seeing more 5E developers admit 5.5 a disappointment in terms of sales. I wouldn't be shocked if 5.5 was less popular than 4E. If so, how long until Hasbro and WOTC panic like they did in the last days of 4E?

 

[Ghostse]

The decline of fake geek culture is evident even in the decline of superhero movies, and it's also affecting the popularity of Dungeons and Dragons 5.5. 5E tourists are not moving on to the new system. We keep seeing more 5E developers admit 5.5 a disappointment in terms of sales. I wouldn't be shocked if 5.5 was less popular than 4E. If so, how long until Hasbro and WOTC panic like they did in the last days of 4E?

They have solidly fucked themselves.
5e needs a reset/rebalance due to powercreep from subclasses used to shift books, but nuD&D doesn't change any mechanics (because math is racist) just some of the starting values. The only thing D&Done brings to the table is updated language catering to woke sensibilities and no one cares about that now.
I think the only thing they could have done was basically put out AD&D 5.0 but they can't because complex math and taking the game seriously is mucho haram. That gets in the way of your faggot barista non-binary half Theifling/Half Drow talking about fashion with the orc in xir polycule.

Also daily reminder 4e was only a failure by not making as much money as Hasbro wanted. (I'd also add "gaining and maintaining player engagement via a freely available playable SRD")

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Between this shit and some of the FLGS becoming a lot less friendly or less local, and also due to a lack of anything new in the works catching my eye in the TTRPG with very few exceptions, I'm wondering if I might as well take a break from the hobby.

Oh yeah, that and a bunch of designers I used to like turning out to be absolute turd human beings.

 

[strawberry15]

4e sold better than 3.5, 5e sold better than 4e. the brand is D&D ffs.
hope wotc dies slowly.

 

[The Ugly One]

The decline of fake geek culture is evident even in the decline of superhero movies, and it's also affecting the popularity of Dungeons and Dragons 5.5. 5E tourists are not moving on to the new system. We keep seeing more 5E developers admit 5.5 a disappointment in terms of sales. I wouldn't be shocked if 5.5 was less popular than 4E. If so, how long until Hasbro and WOTC panic like they did in the last days of 4E?

The main issue is that books aren't a perishable good, so if a new book doesn't offer a substantial improvement over an old one, people are unlikely to buy it. No large, complex system is perfect, but 5e works well enough to run campaigns for years without sheafs of house rules to un-fuck the system.

What is the point of 5e? Even if I were a woke faggot who posts on rpg.net every day, what motivation do I have to run out and spend a pile of money on new books? The changes are marginal. There are minor tweaks to the spells, many of them to spells that were just fine as written, a few class abilities modified here and there. But they didn't do anything major like rethink damage/HP scaling, replace the d20 skill system with something that doesn't suck, or find a happy medium between the hard nerf of 5e concentration and the wildly overpowered spell-stacking of 3.5.

Also daily reminder 4e was only a failure by not making as much money as Hasbro wanted.

Sales collapsed in its second year. Splat churn is a horrible business strategy.

 

[Ghostse]

Even if I were a woke faggot who posts on rpg.net every day, what motivation do I have to run out and spend a pile of money on new books?

Excuse me bigot, the art is updated to be of lumpy potato people so the male gaze isn't an issue and the language is heckin' inclusive. They got rid of the word "race", shitlord. Everyone is exactly the same grey blobs now, but instead of errata its official, so it'd going to make the game so euphorically diverse.
So Maybe go step on a lego instead of punching down on the oppressed people trying to liberate society from the gender binary.

 

[The Ugly One]

Excuse me bigot, the art is updated to be of lumpy potato people so the male gaze isn't an issue and the language is heckin' inclusive. Maybe go step on a lego instead of punching down on the oppressed people trying to liberate society from the gender binary.

Right, I would post something like the above on rpg.net and then not actually buy the books, complaining that as BIPOC-identifying translesbian, my life is too consumed with fighting Russian disinformation online to hold down a job and buy the books.

 

[Judge Dredd]

If so, how long until Hasbro and WOTC panic like they did in the last days of 4E?

It's too late. They are panicing/they have a plan.

I've not been following this stuff closely, but some of the channels I like cover the topic of Hasbro and by extention WotC occationally. Hasbro is currently under fire from it's investors/stock holders. Their plan is to turn into a Disney like licensing company. Horde IP, and license it to people like Larion and skim a percentage while doing no work.

My prediction as of today. They're going to keep doubling down to try and make DnD Beyond stick. Eventually they'll license DnD out to some OSR guys who will basically do a OSE v2. Maybe Paizo or Kobold Press, but they have their own thing now.

No large, complex system is perfect, but 5e works well enough to run campaigns for years without sheafs of house rules to un-fuck the system.

Base 5e, yes. But by the time 2024 was released, the power creep and bloat all but requires it.

What is the point of 5e? Even if I were a woke faggot who posts on rpg.net every day, what motivation do I have to run out and spend a pile of money on new books? The changes are marginal. There are minor tweaks to the spells, many of them to spells that were just fine as written, a few class abilities modified here and there. But they didn't do anything major like rethink damage/HP scaling, replace the d20 skill system with something that doesn't suck, or find a happy medium between the hard nerf of 5e concentration and the wildly overpowered spell-stacking of 3.5.

I agree, but on the other hand, internet people seem to really like Tales of the Valiant, and that's just minor tweaks.

 

[Mr. Manchester]

Mispelled Radiant Citadel (of niggers)

I still think you could use that book to straight up run a Demolition Man game and it'd work really well. I think there's even another plane or something they throw people into if they cause too much trouble where they get magically re-educated. Obviously everyone is just going to want to be Simon Phoenix and I would be perfectly fine with that.

I bet you could get away with none of your players figuring out what's going on for a while.

 

[The Ugly One]

Base 5e, yes. But by the time 2024 was released, the power creep and bloat all but requires it.

The only house rule I felt I really needed was a list of banned races (no Tabaxis, Tortles, or Aarakocra), and the artificer wasn't allowed. College of Swords Bard broke the core conceit of the class, but it wasn't worth the hassle of making someone stop using it. I didn't even need to write down the ban list. Oh and a total ban on everything in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything except the Ranger revision.

 

[Ghostse]

The only house rule I felt I really needed was a list of banned races (no Tabaxis, Tortles, or Aarakocra), and the artificer wasn't allowed. College of Swords Bard broke the core conceit of the class, but it wasn't worth the hassle of making someone stop using it. I didn't even need to write down the ban list. Oh and a total ban on everything in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything except the Ranger revision.

Crossbow expert.

 

[The Ugly One]

Crossbow expert.

Never had a big problem with it. But if somebody chooses it, the odds of him ever finding a +3 Hand Crossbow dropped to about zero.

 

[Battlefield2142EU]

I think the only thing they could have done was basically put out AD&D 5.0 but they can't because complex math and taking the game seriously is mucho haram.

AD&D 5E or advanced 5E is what the new edition should've been called in the first place. A big marketing problem with 5.5 is it didn't have a proper name until now. If that. WOTC and Hasbro pulled the Wii U and Xbox Series X all the same time. A bad and confusing name for a new edition.

What is the point of 5e? Even if I were a woke faggot who posts on rpg.net every day, what motivation do I have to run out and spend a pile of money on new books?

Seeing how many OSR forms and subreddits were celebrating Ernie Gygax passing away. Makes me think the remaining 5E players who actually play the game for real instead of being fake geek tourists are moving on to the OSR games. I think I still have a gut feeling WOTC will make a spin-off Dungeons and Dragons game to appeal to OSR fans.

 

[ZMOT]

That was actually a running gag during our last campaign. Every time the Warlock got a crit with his Eldritch Blast, every single enemy with a ranged attack and enough morale left to stay in the fight turned him into a pincushion.

Half-disintegrating someone with a beam of transdimensional energy is a great way to get their buddies to pay attention to you.

that might only work with a beam tho. your pal getting turned inside out - if you even notice it in the heat of battle - would require you to immediately understand what's happening and why, and then everyone be able to react in a split second with clear objectivity and not simply considering your own demise first. even normal soldiers get shell-shocked, and that's when all the factors are somewhat understandable (like bullet hitting skull). reality-bending shit probably never seen before happening? no one is reacting like pieces on a chessboard with drone oversight and turn-based "bullet time".
not that you can't run combat like that, but that would also affect enemies.

that's also why the whole MUH TANK discussion is retarded. the circumstances like environment work both ways, you obviously want the big AC guy going through the door first (if you decide to go in). it's literally arguing ballistic shields are stupid because "you can't force criminals to shoot the shield, they can just shoot the guys in the back HURR DURR". but yeah sure, just ignore it bro, he doesn't have a taunt after all...

They have solidly fucked themselves.

racist math is probably only a small factor. hasbro pushing for more paper to sell is probably a bigger reason for the "refresh", but at the same time doesn't want to piss of hordes of normalfags witnessing their first edition change (hence the "it's totally compatible"), and no massive changes because imagine those casuals have to completely re-learn from scratch another d20+modifier game...
and that's before you'd have to consider who you'd put in charge to design a proper new dnd edition. given all the designer are turbofags any criticism would probably cause a mental breakdown for months and endless PR debacles on social media.

 

[Adamska]

The decline of fake geek culture is evident even in the decline of superhero movies, and it's also affecting the popularity of Dungeons and Dragons 5.5. 5E tourists are not moving on to the new system. We keep seeing more 5E developers admit 5.5 a disappointment in terms of sales. I wouldn't be shocked if 5.5 was less popular than 4E. If so, how long until Hasbro and WOTC panic like they did in the last days of 4E?

Wizards did have a couple of people slowly cooking up the basics for what a 6e would be like just in case of this apparently. There were apparently at least some people concerned that something like this might happen. We might see that 6e get shoved out quicker than it should be if the sales are flatlining already.

The problem that GMs noticed years ago and Wizards neglected to remotely think about is fucking them; the 5ers are refusing to hop ship.

 

[Mr. Manchester]

Wizards did have a couple of people slowly cooking up the basics for what a 6e would be like just in case of this apparently. We might see that get shoved out quicker than it should be if the sales are flatlining already.

That would be a tough thing to do. They would pretty much have to bend the knee to all those mean old chuds and admit that they were right. If they just pile in a bunch of weird woke garbage again than 6th is dead in the water.

 

[The Ugly One]

even normal soldiers get shell-shocked, and that's when all the factors are somewhat understandable (like bullet hitting skull). reality-bending shit probably never seen before happening? no one is reacting like pieces on a chessboard with drone oversight and turn-based "bullet time".
not that you can't run combat like that, but that would also affect enemies.

The scale of the conflict is more like a basketball game than the Battle of the Bulge. The lanky white guy starts landing 3s at will? The other team will notice.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

The only house rule I felt I really needed was a list of banned races (no Tabaxis, Tortles, or Aarakocra), and the artificer wasn't allowed. College of Swords Bard broke the core conceit of the class, but it wasn't worth the hassle of making someone stop using it. I didn't even need to write down the ban list. Oh and a total ban on everything in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything except the Ranger revision.

I banned everything in Tasha's but the feats. Those are actually useful.

 

[p1138]

Wizards did have a couple of people slowly cooking up the basics for what a 6e would be like just in case of this apparently. There were apparently at least some people concerned that something like this might happen. We might see that 6e get shoved out quicker than it should be if the sales are flatlining already.

The problem that GMs noticed years ago and Wizards neglected to remotely think about is fucking them; the 5ers are refusing to hop ship.

Even if we did get a 6e, it probably won't be worth a shit. Who is actually left in the industry that would be willing to work for Hasbro at this point, and actually has enough of an understanding of game systems to come up with something interesting? Meanwhile we've got an edition created by morons that assumed DMs were too fucking dumb to notice "the good spells" in the list for a monster/NPC sheet and had to separate them out as special actions that aren't spell actions. Sure they could pay some money and get some consultants(seemingly what they did for this 2024 version) but that's just going to end up as a design by committee mess.

 

[Kyle Parson]

Because they had this fantastic, high magic, mind-bending setting that they made when WotC could still be said to at least make some things that people actually liked and wanted and all they could think to do with it was a coffee-shop cringe adventure and gay prom. This was also right around the time that we got Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel that was "What if DnD was gay space communism where everyone got along."

I once went to a Dungeon Master training event this year and it was absolutely overloaded with corporation speak, (the whole thing was about connecting skills in the corporate world to being a Dungeon Master) the pinnacles of DEI art. They mentioned multiple times about how "DnD used to be dominated by White men but now it is more open and diverse!" I hated that entire fucking event and what leftists have done to D&D.