BG3 rant with spoilers, don't click if you don't want spoilers

it is still a mediocre game at best. if it was out 15 years ago, people would "meh" it.
idk if you played Neverwinter Nights 2 that came out around 2006 or so, it uses the D&D 3.5 rules and nearly has the same 3D isometric style and Companion System as BG3 imo. Playing it feels like a proto BG3. Its not as free when it comes to the choices you can make and the plot is fairly linear but it definitely goes to show you that BG3 was already pretty much there conceptually 20 years ago even when it came to D&D.
 
idk if you played Neverwinter Nights 2 that came out around 2006 or so, it uses the D&D 3.5 rules and nearly has the same 3D isometric style and Companion System as BG3 imo. Playing it feels like a proto BG3. Its not as free when it comes to the choices you can make and the plot is fairly linear but it definitely goes to show you that BG3 was already pretty much there conceptually 20 years ago even when it came to D&D.
I wish to be clear before I start my rant. I know you are not making this argument, but I am addressing a common argument as to why BG3 is in a whole different league to its predecessors. It is true that BG3 has many, many more ways it can resolve than previous titles and, while impressive, is not as substantive as the pro BG3 community gets high on their own farts over. I am not arguing against you, I am not asserting this is your position. The way you phrased that implies that you agree with me to at least a degree. I am just noting why I don't hold it against NVN for being fairly linear.

NVN2 was amazing. Bashing linearity is often just a sign of snobbiness and a willingness to regurgitate a common talking point for updoots from people of similar stock. It's a fundamentally dumb gripe. There is nothing wrong with a mostly or entirely linear plot if it does not give some hackeneyed all roads lead to Rome scenario where the choice was ultimately meaningless. What is bad is promising a multitude of paths and pretending that choices are meaningful when they're not. Additionally, forcing you into a single option when the story provides no or bad reasons why the OBVIOUS and ACHIEVABLE better choice is transparently there. Things like radiation immune characters refusing to prevent your main character, who is scripted for a heroic sacrifice, from taking a fatal dose of radiation because "that is your destiny not mine."

Most games in other genres are transparently linear and that is okay. You can only beat Super Mario Bros. one way. There is no alternate path where you enter into negotiations with King Koopa and bring about a peace treaty with a disarmament. SO THE FUCK WHAT? Hurr, durr, you railroaded, is a low quality gripe. There is a time and a place where it is entirely appropriate to railroad the plot. Depriving choices at certain junctures makes the junctures that give you choices more valued.

The freedom of BG3 is one of the selling points as to why it is a league of its own. This is just self fellation. If you have 5 meaningful choices with 5 meaningful paths, five to the fifth power is 3025. I believe BG3 boasts 30K if I am not mistaken. In the aforementioned example, I achieved over 3000 possible outcomes based on 25 scenarios and this isn't even vaguely close to steelmanned. 2 to the 25th power is over 32 million. While it takes a LOT of programming to account for every possible outcome, you really don't need flowcharts in flowcharts to have an amazing game. You can have zero choices, one meaningful choice or a few meaningful choices and it can still be a great game. 30K outcomes is NOT a necessity for a great game.

NVN2 is much better if ONLY for the fact that it wasn't all about sex and modern bullshit.
 
idk if you played Neverwinter Nights 2 that came out around 2006 or so, it uses the D&D 3.5 rules and nearly has the same 3D isometric style and Companion System as BG3 imo. Playing it feels like a proto BG3. Its not as free when it comes to the choices you can make and the plot is fairly linear but it definitely goes to show you that BG3 was already pretty much there conceptually 20 years ago even when it came to D&D.
Nvn2 is a better rpg, even the main campaign ith its keep is pretty good. companions are not as annoying as bg3. When i was speaking of mediocraty of bg3, nvn 2 was on my mind.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Rick Nekieta
Nvn2 is a better rpg, even the main campaign ith its keep is pretty good. companions are not as annoying as bg3. When i was speaking of mediocraty of bg3, nvn 2 was on my mind.
I very genuinely cared for Khelgar when he had his epiphany about the difference between a just and an unjust fight. He hit me right in the feels when he says "you're damned right it's unjust." He then proceeds to admit that he is too quick to violence, but correctly asserts that despite this, violence is 100% justified in the matter at hand, even if he had been premature in its execution before. He has evolved to the point he no longer needs the lecture, as the monk cosigns his statement. He no longer needs external discipline, because he is disciplining himself. I found that particular part of that particular companion's arc to be compelling. It is the ONLY one I'd call compelling. The resolution of becoming a monk (being mechanically weaker by MILES, not marginally, incredibly) is disappointing because you are sacrificing a LOT of party power to make that switch.

The other companion arcs were kind of surface, but not entirely cringe. Boilerplate, but effective enough. The fact that between Sand and the sorceress (name escapes me) one of them joins the big bad is cringe. I DO like the fact that you can persuade the Chaotic Evil ranger to step aside. You can't appeal to virtue, but you can appeal to pragmatism and he will just step aside. I DID like that touch.
 
The freedom of BG3 is one of the selling points as to why it is a league of its own. This is just self fellation. If you have 5 meaningful choices with 5 meaningful paths, five to the fifth power is 3025. I believe BG3 boasts 30K if I am not mistaken. In the aforementioned example, I achieved over 3000 possible outcomes based on 25 scenarios and this isn't even vaguely close to steelmanned. 2 to the 25th power is over 32 million. While it takes a LOT of programming to account for every possible outcome, you really don't need flowcharts in flowcharts to have an amazing game. You can have zero choices, one meaningful choice or a few meaningful choices and it can still be a great game. 30K outcomes is NOT a necessity for a great game.
Freedom in bg3= without a patch you either suck your companions dick or shovel heated iron dildo up their ass while letting them drank acid (no lets stay friend option), Railroaded on most stupit things (githyanki coven in act 1 will always know you carry the artifact and you can never hide it, not siding with thieving kids will result in guards taking you in. most stupid things possible.
I very genuinely cared for Khelgar when he had his epiphany about the difference between a just and an unjust fight. He hit me right in the feels when he says "you're damned right it's unjust." He then proceeds to admit that he is too quick to violence, but correctly asserts that despite this, violence is 100% justified in the matter at hand, even if he had been premature in its execution before. He has evolved to the point he no longer needs the lecture, as the monk cosigns his statement. He no longer needs external discipline, because he is disciplining himself. I found that particular part of that particular companion's arc to be compelling. It is the ONLY one I'd call compelling. The resolution of becoming a monk (being mechanically weaker by MILES, not marginally, incredibly) is disappointing because you are sacrificing a LOT of party power to make that switch.

The other companion arcs were kind of surface, but not entirely cringe. Boilerplate, but effective enough. The fact that between Sand and the sorceress (name escapes me) one of them joins the big bad is cringe. I DO like the fact that you can persuade the Chaotic Evil ranger to step aside. You can't appeal to virtue, but you can appeal to pragmatism and he will just step aside. I DID like that touch.
I only find neeshka annoying. which is fewer than companions i found annoying and cringe in bg3.
 
The freedom of BG3 is one of the selling points as to why it is a league of its own. This is just self fellation. If you have 5 meaningful choices with 5 meaningful paths, five to the fifth power is 3025. I believe BG3 boasts 30K if I am not mistaken. In the aforementioned example, I achieved over 3000 possible outcomes based on 25 scenarios and this isn't even vaguely close to steelmanned. 2 to the 25th power is over 32 million. While it takes a LOT of programming to account for every possible outcome, you really don't need flowcharts in flowcharts to have an amazing game. You can have zero choices, one meaningful choice or a few meaningful choices and it can still be a great game. 30K outcomes is NOT a necessity for a great game.
I guess when I mention freedom in terms of BG3, I more applaud the fact that aside from the Artifact which you always will have to have with you, you can essentially kill everyone in the game at any point and still progress the story. Act1 and 2 of the story also gives you a lot of freedom of how you choose to interact with any given quest and the NPCs will have dialogue that reacts to virtually any scenario you can think of when it comes to how you tackled the quests. I think BG3 had the potential to be a great game had they kept up with that, but around the end of Act2- going into Act3 they dropped all premise of freedom of choice, and every game ends up the same once you get into the city.

I remember the conversations I had with my friends when we were playing through BG3 and it sounded like we were all playing a radically different game all the way til we hit Act3 then it just devolved into shittiness.
Nvn2 is a better rpg, even the main campaign ith its keep is pretty good. companions are not as annoying as bg3. When i was speaking of mediocraty of bg3, nvn 2 was on my mind.
I think my only problem with the main campaign of NWN2 was the DM got mad I killed his BBEG and said "Rocks fall everyone dies" at the end. Other than that, I enjoyed it and all the expansions.
NVN2 is much better if ONLY for the fact that it wasn't all about sex and modern bullshit.
I replayed NWN2 once I finished my first playthrough of BG3. At the time I hadn't played the main campaign of NWN2 since 2007 or so. NWN2 felt like a nice soul-cleansing experience. No modern lingo, nobody saying "Fuck" every two seconds, none of my companions trying to fuck me. No gay gnomes, every third character didn't have nigger lips or Zoomer Broccoli hair. It felt like an actual fantasy game.
 
I think my only problem with the main campaign of NWN2 was the DM got mad I killed his BBEG and said "Rocks fall everyone dies" at the end. Other than that, I enjoyed it and all the expansions.
I can't believe I never noticed that before or thought of it that way. It really does reek of GM tardrage, doesn't it?
 
I honestly wonder if the people who worked on BG3 even liked the Baldur's Gate games. They said the combat was bad in them, like OP said they messed Viconia and Sarevok up and they either didn't know or didn't care about the ending of Throne of Bhaal that was pretty clear there was no other Bhaalspawn left. They basically used the title of the game to get sales and it shows. Even people who like BG3 say to not bother with the originals and to check out the other Larian garbage instead.
idk if you played Neverwinter Nights 2 that came out around 2006 or so, it uses the D&D 3.5 rules and nearly has the same 3D isometric style and Companion System as BG3 imo. Playing it feels like a proto BG3. Its not as free when it comes to the choices you can make and the plot is fairly linear but it definitely goes to show you that BG3 was already pretty much there conceptually 20 years ago even when it came to D&D.
I said something like this here awhile ago and got a bunch of trashcans so it's very nice to see that I'm not the only person who thinks this. BG3 just does a bunch of stuff that older rpgs used to do and people for some reason think it's all revolutionary.
 
I said something like this here awhile ago and got a bunch of trashcans so it's very nice to see that I'm not the only person who thinks this. BG3 just does a bunch of stuff that older rpgs used to do and people for some reason think it's all revolutionary.
I think the main reason BG3 seemed so refreshing to so many people when it came out is because for a lot of people it was their very first introduction to CRPGs that were deeper than a kiddie pool. For a lot of us who grew up with those games being just another staple of gaming, the genre almost went dormant for a over a decade. There were a few sleeper hits here and there, and your Pathfinders and Pillars of Eterny and what not, but if you didn't really actively try to play those types of games you could have gone a full 20 years without experiencing something like that til BG3 came along.

NWN2 came out competing with games like Elder Scrolls Oblivion and World of Warcraft was about to hit its peak so I think it was largely forgotten by most people.
 
In my headcanon, if the BG1 protagonist had failed, I believe Sarevok would have successfully usurped Bhaal's power. If the BG1 protag failed, Sarevok (and whatever of his lieutenants survived) would have been captured by Irenicus and events would have played out largely the same. Sarevok would take the evil companions and his strategic mind would have led them to victory. He would have sided with Bodhi, obliterated the Thieve's Guild, gained Slayer power and proceeded to betray Bodhi and Irenicus. The evil 6 would have taken out the Five and subseqently Melissan, resulting in Sarevok fulfilling the prophecy with his companions getting premium roles in the new world order. And war between Amn and BG would have been devastating to both sides while all this was going on.

This is a man who shatters worlds. Not a man who molests children in the shadows. Making him an incestuous molestor completely shatters the magnamity of his presence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: strawberry15
Never particularly cared about the BG3 hype as a result of all the kick in the nuts that Larian gave to BG1/2. It was nice to see an actual CRPG gain a lot of steam but after I played it I realized it really is Baldur's Gate 3 in name only. As it is they took a completely weird middle ground. Either let the player choose what happened in BG1/2 or just don't mention it, it's weird to forcefully canonize versions of BG1 and 2 companions that fans of those games are likely going to hate.
 
I cannot believe how half baked this game is.
They add endings with patches, they add subclasses with patches, they add decicions with patches. THis is just one big early access it seems. It was buggy and it was missing decisions. some were annoying (gayle flirting with you lacked the "i love you as a friend" option and only had, i hate you/ cum in my mouth.) options. Thief tiefling kids would force you to initiate a fight with fucking guards when you express how they should not steal etc. This is really funny, people just gaslighted themselves to liking the game. all the "options" in the game were just combat stuff.

5e is so lazy that they had to change the action system, now jumping is a bonus action lol. make it a move action you idiots! implementations of shoving, jumping and other variety of actions are badly designed. They put some manuevers into specific item types, oh you have a staff, oh ok once per encounter you can do this!!! why cannot all the combat actions be inherent to combat itself, with variety of changes of success or strategies come from class and feat design like all the other editions did? because they have to put importance to items. In 5e, items also suck, but also mandatory to have. they wanted to do more than oh this sword deals 1d6 cold dmg, and they also wanted to implement build options for characters through use of items, but that shit is bland and bad.

The freedom of the game is being able to deal with combat with many options, which is what all other games alreay had. the only difference is the system is bad, the rework of the system is also bad, and they had the larian magic of, you can loot and interact with every item stuff. that worked on divinity original sins series, but even then it was just a meme thing. put explosives into a barrel that you can remove from your bag, then let it explode is in the same tier of memery with bag of rats and peasant railgun. It is a very dishonest and rulebreaking thing that any respectable DM would stay away doing it. But Larian consistently wants people to pull it of. I love doing those stuff sometimes and i have nothing agains it, but this thick memery is just killing the immersion, realism, and adventuring for me.

Act 1 is all bad. every side quest you have taken, aside from the hag one, revolves around mind flayers. this makes the situation less believable. it is like everyone just waited for you to come so they can put you on rails and move you towards act 2. druids, thieflings, dungeons, underworld lack any history, lack any defining trait because of that focus. the hag quest, is fun but also bad. It is just accaptance of normalization of occult elements in fantasy, a bad reversal of monkey paw stiuations. In Bg2, De'Arniese Keep, or Tradesmeet etc all had localized problems. In some cases, a quest you had to do also makes you go through other quests. Main quest itself requires you to do some adventuring so you can collect money to save a friend or find your enemy it is a very good way to do it. But aside from this, De'Arnies keep is just an adventure on itself, a troll chief just invaded it with yuan-ti and some other monsters. There are shady things about it but it is never explained in detail and in no way it is connected to the main quest line. so that quest makes you feel like the world is unique and does not revolve around you and does not wait for you even in reality all of the events are hard scripted. You go to a palace to steal something, find mafia there, no role play, no exposition, they just attack you, but through their magical items, their classes etc you have some idea of what they are doing and when they are doing. BG2 had planar adventures, little adventures where you try to find who killed a little boy and took his teddy bear, random encounters (both as random encounters but also encounters that you can search for, like when you go to bridge district with rogue stone, you are teleported to a evil guys demiplane where you can loot a lich to gain the best staff or randomly stumbling into a trolls cae and save people even though in both cases there was no info, no requirement or no need to find those things.) It was a great game with great balance of adventure, story and intrigue in it that bioware never been able to replicate again.

Act 2 of BG3 is fine i guess. it had a solid theme, still had the issues of act 1 but to a lesser degree. Act 3 is just shit i do not want to analyse it.
 
I wish I could claim credit for the following observation about BG2, but I can not. In the dream sequence where Irenicus speaks of the futility of virtue and death consuming all, that is NOT Irenicus' doing. This SHOULD be obvious when, in another part, he states "you'll warrant no villain's exposition from me, you will simply die." Irenicus has NO interest in persuading the protagonist of anything. He simply wishes to steal, kill and live on. He is not interested in philosophical exchange. The philosophy is conveyed by Bhaal, trying to rile the player up to squash Irenicus, seize power and disregard any morality that is based in sentiment or compassion.

The fact that this is never explicitly exposed or even confirmed is a wonderful touch of nuance. BG3 has nothing like this.
 
I wish I could claim credit for the following observation about BG2, but I can not. In the dream sequence where Irenicus speaks of the futility of virtue and death consuming all, that is NOT Irenicus' doing. This SHOULD be obvious when, in another part, he states "you'll warrant no villain's exposition from me, you will simply die." Irenicus has NO interest in persuading the protagonist of anything. He simply wishes to steal, kill and live on. He is not interested in philosophical exchange. The philosophy is conveyed by Bhaal, trying to rile the player up to squash Irenicus, seize power and disregard any morality that is based in sentiment or compassion.

The fact that this is never explicitly exposed or even confirmed is a wonderful touch of nuance. BG3 has nothing like this.
bhaal also appears as sarevok and impen but it's pretty obvious desu
 
Someone please explain to me why the retards defending the deviant sex shit in BG3 can't just jack it to H-games in their own lane instead of trying to bait people who just want CRPGs only to shove the deviancy in our faces.
There's very little of it you are exposed to without. On top of my head it's:
* The male Bugbear caught fucking a troll (heterosexual and just a joke).
* Going to hell and finding Satan's buttboy (only implications and it is hell).
* Plot critical lesbians, no sex shown (as old as the genre, again nothings shown).

I swear, Concord and KC2 mind broke people here into being the puritan police.
 
There's very little of it you are exposed to without. On top of my head it's:
* The male Bugbear caught fucking a troll (heterosexual and just a joke).
* Going to hell and finding Satan's buttboy (only implications and it is hell).
* Plot critical lesbians, no sex shown (as old as the genre, again nothings shown).

I swear, Concord and KC2 mind broke people here into being the puritan police.
If context matters any I largely disliked most Bioware romances too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: strawberry15
There's very little of it you are exposed to without. On top of my head it's:
* The male Bugbear caught fucking a troll (heterosexual and just a joke).
* Going to hell and finding Satan's buttboy (only implications and it is hell).
* Plot critical lesbians, no sex shown (as old as the genre, again nothings shown).

I swear, Concord and KC2 mind broke people here into being the puritan police.
a) What you cited is enough. I really have no desire to hear of anyone's bedroom activity or speak of my own. To some degree, I have to give allowances that others think differently, but I can certainly speak up when it reaches extreme levels.

b) There is also Halsin going on about his time as a sex slave, everyone throwing themselves at you constantly, Astarion being the epitome of the bisexual letch and the fanbase that goes along with that, etc. I will give PARTIAL credit for the fact that they deconstruct Halsin's experience as traumatic, not salacious, and Astarion's experience as extremely evil, not some cutesie character trait. I will give them credit for deconstruction SOME of the overromanticization of lechery, but they are guilty of overromanticizing it in other domains.

c) Not wanting to be a front row spectator to someone else's sexual activity is NORMAL AND HEALTHY.
 
Back