Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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WOTC and Hasbro said it's slavery that keeps them from bringing back Dark Sun. See 5.5 D&D removing Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements. Makes me wonder if the real reason why Dark Sun hasn't come back to 5E is because the woke culture in WOTC and Hasbro think desert means Middle Eastern-inspired settings. They are staying away from anything Conan-inspired.
 
Same with me, honestly; not that I dislike playing humans, it just feels like a fun opportunity to play a monster race. Cool lore and ability opportunities, you know?
That's actually my problem with beast races. Even with the ones that have proper lore and aren't just ISO-80085 "generic furry-bait", the vast majority of players that aren't in it for the furry coom simply play them as humans with funny bits instead of leaning on the interesting parts of their lore and characterization. If you ask them, most don't know anything about the fluff, all they know is +2 Dexterity, +1 Charisma, darkvision, sprint, claws, perception and stealth,

You've got a creature that's (presumably) completely unrelated to humans, but you're playing it like Goofy in a Disney cartoon? If you're picking a race for minmaxing purposes, at least put in some effort into making your character more than just a pile of numbers.
 
I've talked at length about this before. It's fun for me to repeat, but I'll keep it brief for your sake.

A lot of the outrage online I find overblown.
I don't mind anthro enjoyers, I even don't mind full on furries most of the time. Though in my experience the cringe stereotypes people talk about online are limited to specific people and places. Furry meets, conventions, that weird guy in college, that kind of thing. They tend to be easy to spot. Long hair, rainbow bangle, and a bag with a paw print on it.

I like Dragonborn a lot personally. I say this as someone who play Argonion in Skyrim despite not being very good. I have a soft spot for beast races in general. Humans, Elves, and Hobbits are the vanilla and extra vanilla of DnD. Dragonborn and Warforged are the strawberry and mint chocolate. I think Dwarves are the only stock human-like race I enjoy.

I have a soft ban on short stacks. Goblins, Hobbits, etc. (dwarves dont count) I don't enforce it or even tell my players, but something feels off about them, especially if the game has some kind of adult theme. eg. If I pitch a game where we're playing Conan with ripped guys in loincloths and babes in chainmail bikinis, and someone brings a hobbit. They're out.
You and I have the exact same opinions, down to hating fantasy midgets. Good taste.
Also, hate to be that guy, but there's a few more beast races I was curious about. As stated, Tabaxi are pretty much ground zero for furfaggotry, Leonin are fairly alright, Dragonborn are undercooked, Aarakocra tend to be popular with flying enthusiasts more than anything, and Lizardfolk are... mixed. The other races I was curious about are:

- Minotaur: (Multiverse, Ravnica)

- Bearfolk (Ebon Tides)

- Harengon (Multiverse)

- Loxodon (Ravnica)

Anyone got any experience or horror stories with them? They feel fun or bad to use? How popular are they with furries?
The only one I've played is a minotaur barbarian in a campaign that sadly ended up on the back burner (and possibly shelved for good). I specifically used an older version because the MPMM version swaps out a choice of skill proficiency (Intimidation or Persuasion) for a situationally useful flavor ability (always know which way is north, and advantage on Survival checks for navigation or tracking). The horns and related attacks worked well for allowing me to move about the field and still get attacks in, though I probably would have used them less later on as I was playing Path of the Giant and would have been able to just fling my axe at things if I needed a ranged attack.

I hadn't even heard of bearfolk, which makes sense because it was from Kobold Press and not WotC. Looking them over, they have a rather large amount of traits that are best for strength-based melee but fine for most classes: +2 STR, bite as natural weapon, natural armor of 13+DEX AC, powerful build, and two skill proficiencies. On top of that, there's a shadowborn subrace that also adds +1 DEX, darkvision, and multiple stealth benefits while in dim light or darkness with no drawbacks. I don't know if they intended on including a second subrace or not, but as written, there is literally no reason not to go shadowborn. This seems a bit overpowered and I would not allow it, or at least I would pare back some of the excess traits.

Harengon get to add their proficiency bonus to their initiative rolls, Perception proficiency, can add a d4 to a failed DEX save as a reaction, and can jump a distance away without provoking opportunity attacks. Much like tabaxi, they're suited for moving quickly and staying out of harm's way, and they make a generally good choice for most classes. Squishy spellcasters in particular will like the initiative bonus and the ability to jump away from attackers.

Loxodon have +2 CON/+1 WIS, powerful build, advantage on charmed and frightened saves, natural armor of 12+CON AC, a prehensile trunk, and advantage on Perception, Survival, and Investigation checks that involve smell. The latter two are generally more flavor than useful, and your DM would really have to lean into creating situations where your enhanced sense of smell would be helpful. Unless you go with the Tasha's rule of swapping stats, the stat combo isn't great for most classes outside of cleric, druid, and maybe ranger. If you do allow stat swaps, then it can be a decent choice for typically squishier classes.

I don't think furries would gravitate towards any besides harengon, and maybe bearfolk. Typically, the more bestial a race is, the less your average furry wants to go for them. But as mentioned above, just because someone is a furry and wants to play an anthropomorphic race, doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get weird about it.
That's actually my problem with beast races. Even with the ones that have proper lore and aren't just ISO-80085 "generic furry-bait", the vast majority of players that aren't in it for the furry coom simply play them as humans with funny bits instead of leaning on the interesting parts of their lore and characterization. If you ask them, most don't know anything about the fluff, all they know is +2 Dexterity, +1 Charisma, darkvision, sprint, claws, perception and stealth,

You've got a creature that's (presumably) completely unrelated to humans, but you're playing it like Goofy in a Disney cartoon? If you're picking a race for minmaxing purposes, at least put in some effort into making your character more than just a pile of numbers.
Agreed, though you also have to take into consideration one's background as well. My minotaur I mentioned above had been captured by a cloud giant at a young age and more or less kept as a pet, but being around a being of higher culture influenced him to be somewhat more civilized as a result. While still prone to attacks of his natural rage (hence barbarian), he was otherwise rather well spoken and polite, albeit gruff, frequently surprising those he met.

Really, all I want is for people to get into their characters and actually play the role they've taken on. A good DM will encourage them to think about who they're playing and nudge them to that end, though some definitely need more prodding than others.
 
Also, last question: does anyone have any thoughts on Mr. Welch's take on Mystara? Was thinking about trying to convince my DM to run some stuff from it, since it seems like fun.
I don't watch Mr. Welch, but I recommend BECMI Berserker's channel. There's a LOT of Mystara content there, and I find him pleasant to listen to for long periods of time.
 
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As for Aasimars not being part of the core races but Tieflings do, I wonder if it's related to the fact Aasimars are usually meant to be seen as good, while Tiefs are the opposite*, and nowadays all that is good is seen as haram.

*Naturally, evil Aasimar and good Tiefs are to be expected.
It's due to people playing them so much more than Aasimar. It's why Warlock became a class in base too; because it's the perfect fire and forget brainless blast caster build for casuals.

They looked at player trends and adjusted, even though by doing that they ensured you gained no base race that bolsters wisdom. It's actually rather fitting in a way given how DnDead is flatlining after its early sales.
 
See 5.5 D&D removing Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements.
Remember, multiculturalism is good, and D&D shouldn't be some kind of white-coded game, which is why we made orcs Mexicans and put all kinds of African-themed crap everywhere, but also it's bad to have Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements because reasons.
 
Also, hate to be that guy, but there's a few more beast races I was curious about. As stated, Tabaxi are pretty much ground zero for furfaggotry, Leonin are fairly alright, Dragonborn are undercooked, Aarakocra tend to be popular with flying enthusiasts more than anything, and Lizardfolk are... mixed. The other races I was curious about are
One you didn't mention but fuck it. Tengu/Kenku. I think Tengu is the real name and Kenku is the WotC approved copyrighted name? Or the other way around? I don't care, I call them Tangu in all setting.

There's a whole history to tengus in RL I won't bore you with. In short. Samurai crows. Usually evil.

If you ask them, most don't know anything about the fluff, all they know is +2 Dexterity, +1 Charisma, darkvision, sprint, claws, perception and stealth,
And that's fine too. It's certainly more interesting than "an extra feat" or a free stat point or whatever humans get in your system of choice.

I don't think I got it to the table. But I remember rolling a black (I think) dragonborn and asking the DM if licking things to melt them outside of combat counted as a use of my breath weapon.

I'm even fine with people taking a beast race (I keep lumping warforged in with them too) even if it's just for visual distinction.

See 5.5 D&D removing Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements. Makes me wonder if the real reason why Dark Sun hasn't come back to 5E is because the woke culture in WOTC and Hasbro think desert means Middle Eastern-inspired settings.
Maybe. I've been struggling for years to get an egyptian style setting off the ground but while everybody loves Indiana Jones, playing that as a RPG makes people nope out.

it's bad to have Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements because reasons.
"Muh cultural appropriation!"
I think eastern style settings get hit with this too. Granted, they tend to be shit. I'm a weeb, and I tend to be unimpressed with their treatment of eastern settings. They have Samurai and Ninja as classes but then do fuck all with them.

The real Schrodinger's setting from other companies is native America. It gets shit on from both ends. Gotta not mention things like wendigos, but also gets forced as a "diverse" setting more than it should.
 
@Judge Dredd

"The real Schrodinger's setting from other companies is native America. It gets shit on from both ends. Gotta not mention things like wendigos, but also gets forced as a "diverse" setting more than it should."

I'm still new here, is there a reason why long posts have the Quote and Reply buttons whited out? Anyway, a couple years ago I played in a group that ran Eberron and we explored Xen'Drik as representatives of the Dragonmarked houses. I didn't know much about the lore and was disappointed that it was just tribal Drow and Giants.
 
"Muh cultural appropriation!"
I think eastern style settings get hit with this too. Granted, they tend to be shit. I'm a weeb, and I tend to be unimpressed with their treatment of eastern settings. They have Samurai and Ninja as classes but then do fuck all with them.
It's impossible to find any real logic behind it. It purely comes down to what wokies get upset about in a struggle session. These are people who think Arabs are native to Egypt, so good luck finding anything deeper than emotionalism.
 
I'm still new here, is there a reason why long posts have the Quote and Reply buttons whited out?
Null got tired of people wasting all kinds of space full-quoting entire OPs. If the buttons are greyed out, just select the part of the post you want to interact with and click either "quote" or "reply" on the little overlay that pops up.

Like this:
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the vast majority of players that aren't in it for the furry coom simply play them as humans with funny bits instead of leaning on the interesting parts of their lore and characterization.

That's something I've noticed a lot as well, and not just with furry races; it feels like the writers and their target audience make every race basically the same, and it gets to the point where most of the races just look/feel like humans with some bits grafted on. Feels like a giant waste of potential; I get that they got to appeal to the woketards that want everything to be the same boring blob, but...


Sorry to hear about the Minotaur campaign; sounds like fun.

Yeah, the Bearfolk do seem to be pretty damn strong; funnily enough, I've looked around quite a bit, and it seems like almost no-one else really knows about them, so they seem bizarrely safe for a furry race. They're getting a nerf if my party ever uses one. Bit surprised Loxodons aren't more popular, though I get it; most furries tend to drift towards felines, dragons, canines, avians, and sometimes bears, whatever they can fetishize. Elephants are a lot more "niche", design-wise.

I'm still new here, is there a reason why long posts have the Quote and Reply buttons whited out?

Basically, it's to prevent replies from getting WAY too large and mucking up the thread; you need to highlight the specific text and select "reply" to properly... well, reply to the people you were trying to reach.

EDIT: Damn, got ninja'd by @Corn Flakes.

...man, this site can make you type some weird shit...
 
If you're picking a race for minmaxing purposes, at least put in some effort into making your character more than just a pile of numbers.
I've played with people like that, forgot the term but it's usually used to describe people who only care about the action of a game rather than any resemblance of roleplaying. They're not as bad as niggercattle however since there's still plenty of brainpower going into how they set-up their character and how they perform in combat, there's even been TTGs made by and for these types of people, hence why I left out the RP in TTRPG. The name Hackmaster comes to mind...
 
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WOTC and Hasbro said it's slavery that keeps them from bringing back Dark Sun. See 5.5 D&D removing Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements. Makes me wonder if the real reason why Dark Sun hasn't come back to 5E is because the woke culture in WOTC and Hasbro think desert means Middle Eastern-inspired settings. They are staying away from anything Conan-inspired.

Ah, Dark Sun; was thinking about getting into that setting recently actually, post-apocalyptic and similar settings are my favorite.

I've played with people like that, forgot the term but it's usually used to describe people who only care about the action of a game rather than any resemblance of roleplaying. They're not as bad as niggercattle however since there's still plenty of brainpower going into how they set-up their character and how they perform in combat, there's even been TTGs made by and for these types of people, hence why I left out the RP in TTRPG. The name Hackmaster comes to mind...

I think "min-maxer" is the proper term, or at least the one that I'm familiar with.
 
Ah, Dark Sun; was thinking about getting into that setting recently actually, post-apocalyptic and similar settings are my favorite.
Do it, it's fucking gnarly. Become Mothman, fist fight a Dragon named B o r y s.
I think "min-maxer" is the proper term, or at least the one that I'm familiar with.
Oh I know, same with "power gamer," but the term I'm thinking of doesn't mean someone who mix-maxxes. It's purely for someone who only plays for the combat or similar mechanics. I think it might be something as simple as "Rollplayer."
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I don't know anything about that. I'm guessing it's the native american region?


Watched a few YouTube videos on Nentir Vale based on @Gingervitis list. I'm not sure how because it doesn't appear to be on the list, so if someone else mentioned it. Sorry. @Gingervitis has your credit. Go ask him for it.

Anyway, there's little out there about it, but while there seems to be praise for it, details of what the setting is about is slim. I might have to pirate the 4e phb/dmg or whatever books it's in.

So far, it's relative obscurity sounds like the best thing about it. Supposedly it's a "points of light" setting, which @Gingervitis called it's own setting
Neo-Experimental Era: These are the settings made in 3e and 4e. Dragon Fist, Eberron, Mahasarpa, Ghostwalk, Rokugan, and Points of Light
I hadn't heard that term so I don't know the specifics. Supposedly how it works is there's a region 150 miles across, with pockets of civilization (the points of light) and everything else is monsters and dungeons. Sounds very Keep on the Borderlands to me.

From the videos, the setting not being properly fleshed out and then abandoned sounds like it's greatest strength. Again, I feel someone said this already, so claim your credit at the lost and found. Point is, either by design or by accident, what little is available is all gameable material, and there's a bunch of blank spaces to drop whatever you want in, if you're so inclined. I'm sure 4e scholars here can tell me if they were intended to be filled in later. But having unanswered questions is one of my favourite things about Eberron. eg. No answer for what caused The Mourning means it retains it's mystique, and it's possible to build campaigns around finding the answer.

While searching, I came across this.
Despite the large amounts of soy in appearence and a couple of arguments, is an interesting video. The TLDW is that Forgotten Realms is a bad starter setting because it has too much lore, that lore is too well known so it's possible for a DM to be called out for getting things wrong, and it lacks a real identity of it's own (edit: and gives nothing to inspire player characters. He also says there's too many high level NPCs running around.). He (or another video) said you can get Nentir Vale ready to run with very good knowledge in an hour.
 
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Dragons haven't been done right since 2e.
3e a dragon was pretty much TPK.
I always had that as a near rule. Or if you actually went and killed a dragon, it was a massive boss fight and you went into it expecting most of the party was probably going to die.

My only dragon character who showed up from time to time was an ancient gold dragon task-assigner where it was always a running gag "why doesn't this near deity just go do this himself?" I always had an excuse though. He had to get a manicure on his claws. Whatever.

YOU gotta do this thing for Goldy. (He was actually training up humans to continue Lawful Goodness after the end of the Age of Dragons.)
WOTC and Hasbro said it's slavery that keeps them from bringing back Dark Sun.
How to repel these weirdoes? Have slavery in your system! Have it evil. Almost everybody views it that way.

But just having it at all, and putting it UP FRONT will drive away these idiots.
 
How to repel these weirdoes? Have slavery in your system! Have it evil. Almost everybody views it that way.

But just having it at all, and putting it UP FRONT will drive away these idiots.

"You can imagine anything, and you choose to imagine a world with slavery? Knowing the harm it does to BIPOC folx?"
 
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