Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

And it really is Rules For Thee And Not For Me. Because D&D worlds can't have slavery or anything bad because "think of the pee-oh-cees", yet their own PbtA abominations are full of Nazis and Fascists for them to punch.
Even within DnD, the recent content has been far more offensive to minorities and other cultures than any of the OG problematic stuff. Even when it was poorly written, there was at least an interest in the culture.

The Demolition man part nearly killed me, I'm just imagining Wesley Snipes just beating the shit out of a bunch of Paladins or some shit in the Citadel while they go "We're Paladins! Tyr didn't train us to handle this kind of violence!"
You could even steal the plot. Some bandits/an orc is wrecking the citadel, so the PCs are hired to stop them. "Need a savage to stop a savage." (I forget the exact line) Turns out not Wesley Snipes was brought in to kill someone the dragon blamed for being the only thing stopping perfect commie utopia, and despite all that power, wisdom, and manipulation, never saw a simple betrayal coming.

I would not tolerate paladins like this.
PINOs. Paladins In Name Only. Remember when CHAZ was ruled by armed thugs that, it turned out, was just some no-name soundcloud rapper and his friends? Could be like that. They have the armour, and they swagger about, but are completely clueless and only have authority because no one else has weapons. ...I guess this fanfic is falling apart.
 
PINOs. Paladins In Name Only. Remember when CHAZ was ruled by armed thugs that, it turned out, was just some no-name soundcloud rapper and his friends? Could be like that. They have the armour, and they swagger about, but are completely clueless and only have authority because no one else has weapons. ...I guess this fanfic is falling apart.
That was basically the character I was playing in the group I had a falling out with, a goblin fighter with delusions of being a paladin for the Silver Flame. Not in any kind of derailing way, my antics were often rewarded with free action points.
 
PINOs. Paladins In Name Only. Remember when CHAZ was ruled by armed thugs that, it turned out, was just some no-name soundcloud rapper and his friends? Could be like that. They have the armour, and they swagger about, but are completely clueless and only have authority because no one else has weapons. ...I guess this fanfic is falling apart.
I generally did not allow those. If you abandoned your vows and started doing bullshit, you'd lose all your paladin powers and just become a normal fighter. Paladins derive their special abilities from a higher power, because of their devotion to it.

That's another reason that while players who wanted to be party leaders chose the paladin class, other players would put up with this because they weren't really at the mercy of a paladin, but at the code of conduct (in the normal sense not the woke sense) that the paladin was obligated to obey.

I would never allow chaotic paladins of any kind because that's fundamentally against the class. Even lawful evil paladins had strict codes of conduct. The codes of conduct for good, neutral, and even evil paladins shared almost the same set of prohibitions. No slavery, no piracy on the high seas, no torture (except as a means of lawful execution but never for information), no sexual deviancy, usually celibacy too, no gluttony, none of the seven deadlies.

So basically if the party was led by a paladin (the usual case) edgelordery and murderhobo shit was basically off the table.
 
Even within DnD, the recent content has been far more offensive to minorities and other cultures than any of the OG problematic stuff. Even when it was poorly written, there was at least an interest in the culture.

Libtards being offended on behalf of a group of people they know nothing about and offending said group of people with their entitled white knighting would be funny if it didn't keep ruining things I like.
 
A completely unrelated topic, is it possible to make petty villains compelling? Should I even be trying? I'm talking things like wife beaters, curtain twitchers, karans, that sort of thing. The closest I got was some wannabe gangsters or a particularly aggressive HoA (Hot Fuzz). The problem is these kinds of petty villains are bad at combat and usually don't have numbers to back them up.

The combat difficulty is going to vary from game to game and is dependent on the DM and the players, but sure, making them compelling is doable.

The cheapest answer is to just give them some kind of pseudo-sympathetic backstory, like: "Steve beats his wife because she sold their firstborn to hungry goblins when he was away, but a small part of him still loves her and that's why he doesn't kill her." or: "Dave is a cruel slave-trader, yes, but he was a slave himself as a child, and through hard work and ingenuity, he earned his own freedom and rose to power. Now he abuses his own slaves, in part because he was raised to see that as the natural order of things, and also because, deep down, he believes he's helping them rise to their full potential. After all, it worked for him."

Or it could be from something memorable happening at the table. In one campaign, we walked in on a riot between city guards and some goblin thugs that were mugging merchants. One of the generic goblin thugs happened to get some really lucky rolls, and effortlessly dodged every guard's attack, killed several of them, and escaped unscathed. The DM quickly decided to give that one a name and retroactively declare he was a lieutenant in the mugger gang. The party all instantly got way more invested in hunting him down because of seeing that happen.

Or just make the minor villain funny. (But actually funny, not what some jerkoff on reddit would describe as funny.)
 
Remember, multiculturalism is good, and D&D shouldn't be some kind of white-coded game, which is why we made orcs Mexicans and put all kinds of African-themed crap everywhere, but also it's bad to have Egyptian and Arabian fantasy elements because reasons.
It gives me a bit of a whiplash, since my last campaign as a DM was Egypt-themed and most of the players (even the wokies) liked it very much before they began injecting troon shit and led to the game being killed. I do remember getting into a small argument with the most problematic player about skin color in Ancient Egypt. Look at my profile pic and tell me whether that's a good idea.

Maybe. I've been struggling for years to get an egyptian style setting off the ground but while everybody loves Indiana Jones, playing that as a RPG makes people nope out.
For an "unusual" setting like this, you'd be better served by picking a specific period of the civilization you'd like to base your game around and begin doing your research beyond what Wikipedia tells you. For the aforementioned game, for example, I picked a period where the relationship between the king and the nobility was more feudal in a way, to sort of ease the players into the setting. I also asked myself the question of "what would happen if Egypt survived into the Middle Ages?" and began adapting weaponry and tactics of the locals to build npcs. In short, when doing stuff like that, sperg out and have fun creating within the boundaries of the culture and period you want to emulate. As for the Indiana Jones theme, there's always a dumb hook you can have to motivate them to go delving in trap-filled tombs.

Wokies have turned imagination itself into a moral act, and there are ever-shifting rules for what you're allowed to imagine and what not, and it's really more about demonstrating you're part of the cult by knowing what the rules currently are (imagining things from the long-dead Egyptian civilization is cultural appropriation, orcs in sombreros shaking maracas is not).
For them, it's easier to use maracas and sombreros (It's a party! So glad! Never mind that it only applies to Mexicans and not the rest of the fucking continent) than do their fucking research to create more varied settings (who they would see as stereotypes, thus racist). As all woke things do, they suck the life out of the creative process by playing it safe, and thus making it miserable for the rest. Thankfully in RPGs we can still do things however we want.
 
I do remember getting into a small argument with the most problematic player about skin color in Ancient Egypt. Look at my profile pic and tell me whether that's a good idea.
They believe Arabs are native to Egypt because they aren't allowed to know about the Great Jihad, because knowing that would be Islamophobic. I peaced out of even trying to engage wokies once one of them pulled, "Why would you even know that?" to insinuate that merely knowing the wrong facts could be racist (although I actually I am racist).
 
For them, it's easier to use maracas and sombreros (It's a party! So glad! Never mind that it only applies to Mexicans and not the rest of the fucking continent) than do their fucking research to create more varied settings (who they would see as stereotypes, thus racist).
What really tickles me about the whole Orc-Mex debacle is that the "ponchos, maracas and sombreros" kind of Mexican (or the closest you'll actually see in real life) is either a grifter exploiting tourist traps (so, a criminal) or a turbo-conservative who's deeply religious and bearing an almost genetic hatred of queers and/or hair dye. Neither stereotype is anywhere near positive in their books but, as you said, they didn't do any research.
 
They believe Arabs are native to Egypt because they aren't allowed to know about the Great Jihad, because knowing that would be Islamophobic. I peaced out of even trying to engage wokies once one of them pulled, "Why would you even know that?" to insinuate that merely knowing the wrong facts could be racist (although I actually I am racist).

Funny how the group that claims to be the most educated often gets angry at people who know more than them. Then again, the "wrongthinkers" know all of the "wrong" and "bad" parts of reality that the woke seek to rewrite; can't have anything that isn't safespace propaganda spewed by a brainwashed idiot.

Back on topic; there is a sort-of unofficial Egyptian-inspired setting for DnD 5e, taken from M:tG, called Amonkhet. It was part of a book released by WOTC, called Plane Shift: Amonkhet fittingly enough, but I don't think it's an official part of the DnD 5e setting; something to do with being made by another group that wasn't the primary DnD team or something, not entirely sure.
 
Back on topic; there is a sort-of unofficial Egyptian-inspired setting for DnD 5e, taken from M:tG, called Amonkhet. It was part of a book released by WOTC, called Plane Shift: Amonkhet fittingly enough, but I don't think it's an official part of the DnD 5e setting; something to do with being made by another group that wasn't the primary DnD team or something, not entirely sure.
Funny thing about that was that plane's entire culture was a lie. An evil dimension-hopping dragon seeded that world with their fake Egyptian culture so they'd fill vast necropolises with the mummified bodies of warriors who died in honor duels that the dragon would then raise as elite zombies to wage war on the multiverse.
 
Back on topic; there is a sort-of unofficial Egyptian-inspired setting for DnD 5e, taken from M:tG, called Amonkhet. It was part of a book released by WOTC, called Plane Shift: Amonkhet fittingly enough, but I don't think it's an official part of the DnD 5e setting; something to do with being made by another group that wasn't the primary DnD team or something, not entirely sure.
How much does it detail? I ask because Eberron (and I assume other settings) make mention of having a desert zone in passing, but normally it's a paragraph or two, maybe a page or two at most, that basically says "Egypt stuff is over there, off the main map."

Oddly enough, the "best" fantasy Egypt setting I've found is Pathfinder. It's basically the real Egyptian pantheon, but I assume there's some edits for gameplay purposes. Even has cutsom races like crocodile men iirc. What fucks over the setting isn't Paizo being woke or poor support, but their "every published adventure is canon" policy. PF had an campaign where you stop the tomb kings that appear with their undead army and flying pyramids. Cool. But it left the region without any major villains to fight, so it's now an anemic setting where the PCs are basically doing clean up.
 
How much does it detail? I ask because Eberron (and I assume other settings) make mention of having a desert zone in passing, but normally it's a paragraph or two, maybe a page or two at most, that basically says "Egypt stuff is over there, off the main map."

Oddly enough, the "best" fantasy Egypt setting I've found is Pathfinder. It's basically the real Egyptian pantheon, but I assume there's some edits for gameplay purposes. Even has cutsom races like crocodile men iirc. What fucks over the setting isn't Paizo being woke or poor support, but their "every published adventure is canon" policy. PF had an campaign where you stop the tomb kings that appear with their undead army and flying pyramids. Cool. But it left the region without any major villains to fight, so it's now an anemic setting where the PCs are basically doing clean up.
You can read it yourself on 5etools, but to answer your question, not much. Skimming it briefly, the basic gist is that it's a world where anyone who dies there will be resurrected shortly afterward as a zombie, and an evil dragon has taken advantage of this by posturing as a God-Pharaoh and subverting the entire society to create an army of powerful mummies. It consists of a radiant city where all needs are met, surrounded by a seemingly infinite desert filled with the undead hordes, with the two protected by a magical barrier. Initiates are told they need to pass five trials by the five gods of the setting in order to escape the curse of undeath and live in eternal bliss with the God-Pharaoh, with the final trial being combat to the death, but instead they are being honed to be resurrected in his army.

And that's about it, really. Some backgrounds, a few cleric domains, some monsters, and a couple adventure ideas to get the ball rolling. It's not really a fully fleshed out setting, more like something that would fit best in a plane-hopping campaign with some of the other MtG settings. You could still have a campaign set entirely there, perhaps with a group of dissenters who wish to overthrow the God-Pharaoh, but there's so little detail that a lot of it would have to be made up by the DM.
 
And that's about it, really. Some backgrounds, a few cleric domains, some monsters, and a couple adventure ideas to get the ball rolling.
The backgrounds, domains, and the pyromancer sorcerer (I think it was from that playtest material) were all pretty fucking dope, imo. My group allows playtest material (unless it's determined something is horribly broken) and I took pyromancer all the way to 20 and it was pretty fucking fun and made a lot more sense than a lot of the other faggy themed sorcerer subclasses.

Also, fuck Nicol Bolas. My DM has a hardon for that thing and wanted to run a scenario where we had to fight it. It wasn't enough that I thought the party should win, but that we absolutely humiliate it. So we got together, plotted in advance, and managed to execute a plan that resulted in a portable tower being activated in his anal cavity. I still call bullshit that it wasn't an instant death.
 
The backgrounds, domains, and the pyromancer sorcerer (I think it was from that playtest material) were all pretty fucking dope, imo. My group allows playtest material (unless it's determined something is horribly broken) and I took pyromancer all the way to 20 and it was pretty fucking fun and made a lot more sense than a lot of the other faggy themed sorcerer subclasses.

Also, fuck Nicol Bolas. My DM has a hardon for that thing and wanted to run a scenario where we had to fight it. It wasn't enough that I thought the party should win, but that we absolutely humiliate it. So we got together, plotted in advance, and managed to execute a plan that resulted in a portable tower being activated in his anal cavity. I still call bullshit that it wasn't an instant death.
Shame on your DM for not allowing your Thanus plan to succeed.
 
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It's not really a fully fleshed out setting, more like something that would fit best in a plane-hopping campaign
A bit off topic, but I'm planning something like that for my next "campaign". I likely mentioned it, but for player reasons, I'm designing it as a series of one shots with a through line connecting them and character XP persisting between sessions. It has some unique challenges I'm stuggling with, but working through.


On the topic of 4e. The more I look into it, the more I want to play it, and the more convinced I am that game was misunderstood and way ahead of it's time. Supposedly prior to release, they had two books that were a collection of thoughts from the designers about their goals and how they went about achieving them. Something that would seem normal for any Kickstarter game these days.
 
On the topic of 4e. The more I look into it, the more I want to play it, and the more convinced I am that game was misunderstood and way ahead of it's time. Supposedly prior to release, they had two books that were a collection of thoughts from the designers about their goals and how they went about achieving them. Something that would seem normal for any Kickstarter game these days.
It changed far too many things for seemingly no reason. 3e at least withstood the initial backlash from the AD&D grognards because most systems were either tweaked or streamlined versions of existing systems so they'd fit the unified [d20 + mods vs. DC] model. Like saving throws, for example. They went from five fairly unintuitive categories ("why is staff/wand separate from spell?"), to three pretty straightforward ones.

Meanwhile, 4e added a ton of new terminology and a bucketload of systems that were brand new to most people. Yes, the At-Will/Encounter/Daily format was technically prototyped in the Tome of Battle, but not a lot of people used it. So if you change too much, the game doesn't feel the same, and people complain about it. Once 5e rolled in, it was back to the 3e format, but with further simplification and streamlining of systems. Instead of piles of bonuses and penalties, you get advantages and disadvantages. Instead of a myriad base and prestige classes, your class has archetypes you can choose to do different things, etc, etc.

I've said it a few times and I stick by it: it they had marketed 4e as Dungeons and Dragons Tactics, it wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the backlash it received. You could still play it as an RPG, but simply not making it the replacement to 3e would be enough.
 
On the topic of 4e. The more I look into it, the more I want to play it, and the more convinced I am that game was misunderstood and way ahead of it's time.
4e is not perfect, it has some serious warts.
People have said its more of tactical war game and I don't fully agree but they aren't too far off base.
The philosphy of 4e can be summed up as "Shut up and play".

The economy is utter, completely, stupidly broken. But who cares, buy/sell/trade your magic items and get to the next encounter. Stop complaining, shut up and play.
Overland travel becomes completely negilible by 5th level. Who cares, you show up at the encounter. Shut the fuck up and play.
Despite limiting bonuses to prevent 3.5e/pf powerscaling, depending on builds combat can take a long time to resolve everything. Shut up, you're playing.


Mainly 4e pissed people off because it was very VERY different. (also becaues it was WotC nickle and diming you for all you're worth) and it degraded the "mud farmer simulator" aspect by leaning all the way on 4e characters being fantasy superheroes.
 
A bit off topic, but I'm planning something like that for my next "campaign". I likely mentioned it, but for player reasons, I'm designing it as a series of one shots with a through line connecting them and character XP persisting between sessions. It has some unique challenges I'm stuggling with, but working through.


On the topic of 4e. The more I look into it, the more I want to play it, and the more convinced I am that game was misunderstood and way ahead of it's time. Supposedly prior to release, they had two books that were a collection of thoughts from the designers about their goals and how they went about achieving them. Something that would seem normal for any Kickstarter game these days.
I am a sucker for Ad&d, i believe it to be the superior form of dnd, 4e in many ways is on the complete opposite side of 4e yet i would rather DM it than any other edition or pf edition.
4e combat is fun, character building is fun, not liking the lore very much, not a fan of rp in it because the game really does not give you much for downtime or rp enunter aside from one or two social challange system.
It changed far too many things for seemingly no reason. 3e at least withstood the initial backlash from the AD&D grognards because most systems were either tweaked or streamlined versions of existing systems so they'd fit the unified [d20 + mods vs. DC] model. Like saving throws, for example. They went from five fairly unintuitive categories ("why is staff/wand separate from spell?"), to three pretty straightforward ones.

Meanwhile, 4e added a ton of new terminology and a bucketload of systems that were brand new to most people. Yes, the At-Will/Encounter/Daily format was technically prototyped in the Tome of Battle, but not a lot of people used it. So if you change too much, the game doesn't feel the same, and people complain about it. Once 5e rolled in, it was back to the 3e format, but with further simplification and streamlining of systems. Instead of piles of bonuses and penalties, you get advantages and disadvantages. Instead of a myriad base and prestige classes, your class has archetypes you can choose to do different things, etc, etc.

I've said it a few times and I stick by it: it they had marketed 4e as Dungeons and Dragons Tactics, it wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the backlash it received. You could still play it as an RPG, but simply not making it the replacement to 3e would be enough.
4e had all the answers to what the players were complaining about previous editions though... Levelling system to races to class balance to feat problems... I am not saying it is perfect but all happened for a reason. There was no reason for having 5 alignments in 4e but people always whit on alignment system. they revies it, people hated it. I prefer ad&d multiverse and alignment system but not gonna lie, they made what the players thought they wanted...
4e is not perfect, it has some serious warts.
People have said its more of tactical war game and I don't fully agree but they aren't too far off base.
The philosphy of 4e can be summed up as "Shut up and play".

The economy is utter, completely, stupidly broken. But who cares, buy/sell/trade your magic items and get to the next encounter. Stop complaining, shut up and play.
Overland travel becomes completely negilible by 5th level. Who cares, you show up at the encounter. Shut the fuck up and play.
Despite limiting bonuses to prevent 3.5e/pf powerscaling, depending on builds combat can take a long time to resolve everything. Shut up, you're playing.


Mainly 4e pissed people off because it was very VERY different. (also becaues it was WotC nickle and diming you for all you're worth) and it degraded the "mud farmer simulator" aspect by leaning all the way on 4e characters being fantasy superheroes.
The action ecenomy is so fun though. it is really stupid that everyone uses their immidiate interrupts or reactions to teleport, summon walls, rewind time etc that it is funny in a cute way.
I hated how items were devalued and also irrevelant. i love renting hundereds of servants and help, carts oxes etc for logistic, 4e just says you never need to be worried about that.
 
You forgot "Munchkin".

Here's been my person breakdown on these types:

Munchkin & Min-Maxer: Just cares about the numbers, nothing else, and wants a brokenly powerful character. The difference between the two is while a straight min-maxer just tries to find the most powerful combinations, the Munchkin will try to drag in whatever wacky homebrew or off-brand splat they can find.
That is, a Min-Maxer will wear scale armor and wield a bastard sword because that's what has the best stats.
A munchkin will be a paladin with DEX 20, a Thri-Keen whip, and wearing dancer's silks despite this being set in Greyhawk.

Power Gamer: Doesn't always want the best number but wants the most powerful numbers. These are the people who the 5-paragraph descriptions on the limitations of Charm Person are written. Munchkins and Min-maxers are about broken characters, a Power Gamer want to break the system.
I've thought about minmaxing/power gaming a bit because I'll admit I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I was considering my reasons for it and here's what I have come up with. IN MY OPINION RELATED TO 5E everything is overtuned so that it's kill or be killed, nuke or get nuked. You can either build a character semi-randomly using optimised (optimised, not minmaxed) stats and try and have fun and get obliterated by the enemies and/or feel totally ineffectual compared to your fellow PCs who went and designed their characters to be awesome. Plus your party is going to be frustrated with you perhaps because you're not pulling your weight in whatever arbitrary CR encounters you're being thrown into. (Just picking CR as a broad metric.)

On the other hand, let's say the DM is running a campaign/session that isn't overtuned and is just middle-of-the-road. Now your normal character feels more inline but the balance is fucked by yyour friends who are overtuned for it. You're frustrated again, your DM is annoyed, your friends are probably going to get bored since they're not challenged - campaign falters.

So what's the answer? Obviously munchkinning is bullshit and annoying and as a DM I am silently crafting a direct counter to you. But how do you design something that your PCs actually feel comfortable making Fun™ characters that arent purely designed to succeed/dominate combat encounters? Personally the most fun I have had is making semi-random characters, rolling for stats, and making due with what I've got, kinda like doing a MtG draft. But it sucks to feel like you're being punished for not minmaxing.
Back on topic; there is a sort-of unofficial Egyptian-inspired setting for DnD 5e, taken from M:tG, called Amonkhet. It was part of a book released by WOTC, called Plane Shift: Amonkhet fittingly enough, but I don't think it's an official part of the DnD 5e setting; something to do with being made by another group that wasn't the primary DnD team or something, not entirely sure.
There's also the demiplane of dread, Har'Akir. https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Har'Akir

In typical fashion the 5e remake of Ravenloft slightly fucked it up but YMMV, it's not as bad some other settings they POZed.
 
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