Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

[Wendy Wheelchair]

I've seen a lot of talk from people (who, sadly I don't remember their names) on the Farms in various threads about having some kind of Catholic-themed thread, whether it was about some of the Catholic grifters in the Fuentes-sphere or just about the faith in general. Since a lolcow thread requires way too much research and approval, I decided to just bite the bullet and make this thread as a general Catholic thread.

First, for all the Catholics coming, we should introduce ourselves slightly for a smoother conversation. I'll start:
Cradle or Convert: Cradle
Novus Ordo, Tridentine Latin Mass, or Eastern Rite: Novus Ordo
Favorite Saints: St. Monica, Soon-to-be-Saint Carlo Acutis, St. Anthony of Padua
Favorite Devotionals: Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Chaplet of St. Monica

Second, I thought this would be a good place to discuss our favorite apologists as they're a good intro to people who don't know a lot about Catholicism. I'll list off their YouTube channels here and their Twitter accounts if they have one.
Bishop Robert Barron: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: Episode 1 of his Catholicism Series

Fr. Mike Schmitz: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: Why Be Catholic and Not Just Christian?

Trent Horn: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: Why I'm Not a Muslim

Jimmy Akin: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: A Wizard Clip (Early American Catholic Ghost Story) - Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World

Joe Heschmeyer: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: Do Protestants Really Worship God?

Matt Fradd: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: New Evidence for the Shroud of Turin (Fr. Andrew Dalton)

Scott Hahn: YouTube | Good Starting Video: A Protestant walks into a Catholic Mass... and everything changes!

Brayden Cook aka TheCatechumen: YouTube / Twitter | Good Starting Video: Thoughts of a Former Baptist After 1 Year in the Catholic Church

Taylor Marshall: YouTube | Good Starting Video: 10 Differences Between Catholics and Protestants


Third, I want to special shout out Deuterocomical. He's a Catholic comedy channel on YouTube that does YouTube poops, AI voice memes, and even take downs of certain Sedevacantists. This is my favorite video of his where it's Bishop Barron debating Taylor Marshall on whether or not it's a mortal sin to pray the rosary in English.

So, yeah, what do you fellow Catholics wanna talk about? Wanna talk about the most beautiful churches you've ever been to? I'm a huge fan of Milwaukee's own Basilica of St. Josaphat. Not only is it beautiful but it was built by poor Polish immigrants who mortgaged their homes to pay for it. It also has so many amazing things going on there every day with confession 6 days a week.

 

[Rango Dango]

I really like Alex from The Voice of Reason, his videos are informative and nice, also fairly recently debated James White and did very well considering it was his first ever debate

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Not a Catholic, but shouldn't Michael Voris be added to this poll?

Follow-up question, is there concern in the greater Catholic community that Jesuits with their distinct flavor of Marxism control the College of Cardinals and therefore all teh Popes moving forward?

 

[Anti Snigger]

Haven't practiced since middle school, but it's insane how as I get older I recognize the influence that Catholicism still holds in my life.

 

[Wendy Wheelchair]

I really like Alex from The Voice of Reason, his videos are informative and nice, also fairly recently debated James White and did very well considering it was his first ever debate

It's insane how good James White makes the Catholic Church appear. So many real stories of people converting to Catholicism after seeing him debate a Catholic.

As for Alex, I like him as a person and thinks he does a HUGE service to the Church, but I think he kind of represents a generational divide for me as he's too Zoomer-coded. But he has 2,000x the humility and charity as Fagner, so he's a good one in my book.

Not a Catholic, but shouldn't Michael Voris be added to this poll?

Follow-up question, is there concern in the greater Catholic community that Jesuits with their distinct flavor of Marxism control the College of Cardinals and therefore all teh Popes moving forward?

IDK if you're joking or not, but Michael Voris wouldn't be labeled an apologist, he'd be a reporter/pundit. He has a known history of being gay and was recently confronted about a man living at his house so he's kind of in hiding and his Church Militant website/network is defunct now.

Haven't practiced since middle school, but it's insane how as I get older I recognize the influence that Catholicism still holds in my life.

Well, not to overstate things, but Catholicism is really extremely logical and lines up with everything. We've been around and answered questions for 2,000 years, so we know how life should be lived and what is true. It's why we're the only denomination that actually promotes asking questions. So often, especially in Orthodoxy and Evangelical fundamentalism, any kind of question is treated as apostasy. It's why as soon as an Orthodox or Evangelical fundamentalism faces a reality that completely contradicts the faith they grew up with, they either still hold on to the notion that God exists or their entire worldview implodes and they become atheists in anger. Catholics usually leave the faith because it's too hard for them morally or they never actually asked the questions they were wrestling with. But so many come back. I went to Catholic school from kindergarten to grad school, and it's amazing seeing these guys I knew in high school who never took anything seriously or even actively hated the Church come back and find true peace.

Unironically, DM me if you have any interest in coming back. God never tires of granting us mercy as His Divine Mercy is endless; we only tire of asking for forgiveness.

 

[GeekUSA]

It's nice to reconnect to my faith, since my family is mainly Catholic and brings me closer to them and God.

 

[Nicholas Gur]

Dear sneeder

 

[Jinn in the phone]

So often, especially in Orthodoxy and Evangelical fundamentalism, any kind of question is treated as apostasy. It's why as soon as an Orthodox or Evangelical fundamentalism faces a reality that completely contradicts the faith they grew up with, they either still hold on to the notion that God exists or their entire worldview implodes and they become atheists in anger.

Orthodoxy and Evangelical fundamentalism? Blessed Seraphim Rose orthbro apes exist but come on.

We've been around and answered questions for 2,000 years, so we know how life should be lived and what is true. It's why we're the only denomination that actually promotes asking questions

The arrogance of the Latins....

Anyway my favorite Catholic Apologist is Marky Mark

 

[Daddy's Angry Juice]

You know what, as long as its not Nick Fuentes' form of "Catholicism"(Read as "Gay") Im cool with the Hail Mary folk, hope the thread goes well and God bless.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

IDK if you're joking or not, but Michael Voris wouldn't be labeled an apologist, he'd be a reporter/pundit. He has a known history of being gay and was recently confronted about a man living at his house so he's kind of in hiding and his Church Militant website/network is defunct now.

Only half-joking, since homosexuality and the Priesthood seem to be inseparable throughout history. Best closet for them to hide in since time immemorial.

Alright so what about a proper apologist arguing from a position of sedevacantism? Or just in general anybody wholly against Vatican II? Or is this limited to mainstream apologia?

 

[Wendy Wheelchair]

Orthodoxy and Evangelical fundamentalism? Blessed Seraphim Rose orthbro apes exist but come on.


The arrogance of the Latins....

Anyway my favorite Catholic Apologist is Marky Mark

Seraphim Rose was a faggot who allowed a known pedophile to run his monastery. Cope and seethe. I will never trust the judgment of the Orthodoxy on anything when they canonized a Serbian king who was divorced 3+ times and married and consummated with a 5-year-old. I guess Muslims ruling over you so long makes that seem normal. BTW, want to know what his saintly deed was? He built a church at a monastery...that already had multiple churches. Sit down and go watch Gay Cryer.

Alright so what about a proper apologist arguing from a position of sedevacantism? Or just in general anybody wholly against Vatican II? Or is this limited to mainstream apologia?

"What about a non-Catholic apologist?"

You have reminded me of an apologist I did miss from my very own Milwaukee, Dr. John Salza. You should watch his video that dismantles both sedevacantism and SSPX. He doesn't have Twitter or even his own YouTube as he mainly appears as guests on other channels, but he has his own website, True or False Pope, which is focused on proving schismatics wrong with essays and other writings.

 

[Preacher ✝]

As much as I like Fr. Mike I gotta hand it to Bishop Barron, he's like the Internet's Fulton Sheen.

Follow-up question, is there concern in the greater Catholic community that Jesuits with their distinct flavor of Marxism control the College of Cardinals and therefore all teh Popes moving forward?

Something you have to understand about Catholicism is we don't tend to get too wrapped up in Vatican politics, or let it affect our devotion to the faith. There are two main reasons for this.

The first and most important is that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ himself declared that 'the gates of hell shall not triumph against his church' when He formed the Catholic Church by granting Saint Peter, the first Pope (even though his office had not been officially titled yet), the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and the powers to bind and loose. (Matthew 16:18-19) The meaning behind all of that is very deep and rooted in the Hebrew tradition of a Kingdom having a Steward when the King is away. You can see it mirrored in the Old Testament with the Kingdom of David as written in the book of Isaiah (Isaiah 22:22). The Keys of the Kingdom are a symbol of the office of Steward. Christ is our King but He ascended body and soul into Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit down to us. For the logistical and practical necessities of administering His Kingdom in His absence we need a Steward, hence why we have the office of Pope. Anyway because Christ said the gates of hell shall not triumph and Christ cannot lie as His word is truth itself that means no matter what happens it will all work out in the end. This is why we say that the Church is the sinless bride of Christ, but the men who administer the Church are no less fallen or prone to sin than the rest of us.

The second reason is the historical evidence that reinforces the first reason. If you look through the 2000+ year history of the Catholic Church you will find all sorts of reprehensible things that the administers have gotten up to, but none of it has resulted in the destruction of the Church. When you look at it in the big picture like that the day to day political posturing or all of the sensationalist media reporting feels very irrelevant.

 

[Wendy Wheelchair]

Follow-up question, is there concern in the greater Catholic community that Jesuits with their distinct flavor of Marxism control the College of Cardinals and therefore all teh Popes moving forward?

I forgot to respond to this. Most of the perceived liberalism in the Vatican comes from Cardinal Victor Fernandez, an Argentinan who is head of the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith who is not a Jesuit. There are only 9 Jesuit cardinals and only 4 of them are young enough to elect the next pope. That's less than 3% of the college of cardinals. Compare that to the Franciscans, who across the 3 different orders, have 13 cardinals with 10 of those being able to elect the next pope, or the Dominicans, who have 5 cardinals with 3 electors. Note that the Jesuits are the largest male religious order in the Church and there are 1,000 less Franciscan priests compared to the Jesuits and the Dominicans have 25% the number of priests.

Regardless, while a lot of mainstream Jesuits seem ultra liberal, the vast majority, who are not in the Anglosphere or Europe, are not. There's even a good YouTuber Jesuit from Louisiana, Fr. John Brown, SJ, who is very clearly conservative. In short, Jesuit conspiracies are an American invention. Even saw a Prot on Twitter who said that the Jesuits (who were founded in the 16th Century) created Islam (founded in the 7th Century) to give Rome (which was collapsed at this time) a "POC army"

 

[Preacher ✝]

Jesuit conspiracies are an American invention

This is only partially true.

The Jesuit order has had conspiracy theorists since their inception due to it being the largest male religious order and their focus on missionary work. Since the 16th century many if not most of the new countries that Catholicism has been introduced to experienced it first from the Jesuits. Since Christian Faith has a tendency of making existing power structures, especially those built on pagan religions, feel threatened, this has resulted in all sorts of conspiracy and slander in retaliation, again largely directed at Jesuits if not the Church as a whole.

On top of that because of the size of the order, and the influence that comes from it, the leader of the Jesuits, the Superior General, has long been dubbed the "Black Pope" based on their black garments in contrast to the white ones the actual Pope wears. While this may have originated from a past concern (most prominent around the 16th and 17th centuries) among protestant European countries concerning the relative power of the Jesuits within the Church, as well as the Superior General also being a life long elected position, it has since then been adopted as an inside joke among Catholics who know the history.

 

[SofondaCox]

Do Catholics ever address the peculiarity of worshiping idols and graven images? Do they ever explain why it's okay to hail Mary, in spite of fairly clear instructions to not worship any other spiritual figures? Does the holy book ever outline "Sainthood", and how it is to be attained? How do you feel about the Knights Templar and their movement to defend and grow the faith with blood? How do you feel about Vatican City's existence?

If these are lame questions, I apologize. Raised evangelical and always pondered these thoughts without ever having a good opportunity to ask. When I did ask, the Catholic was mean, and the Christian called them Pope Whores and refused to elaborate.

 

[Preacher ✝]

I'm going to lean a bit on better apologetics than trying to wing it on my own here.

Do Catholics ever address the peculiarity of worshiping idols and graven images?

Simple, we're not actually worshiping them.

Do they ever explain why it's okay to hail Mary, in spite of fairly clear instructions to not worship any other spiritual figures?

For one, the Hail Mary prayer is extremely Biblical. Second, you need to understand the nature of Intercession and Intercessory Prayer,

Does the holy book ever outline "Sainthood", and how it is to be attained?

Protestants have a bad habit of hyperfocusing on the Bible as a source for everything when that was never intended. Especially when you're using a Bible with missing books and flawed translations like the KJV. So while the Bible does not spell out sainthood, it does instruct by example. All of the Apostles are Saints, and being a Saint basically means following the teachings of Christ. I believe what you're really asking about is Canonization, when the Church formally recognizes and names someone as a Saint. That's a bit different and entails a lengthy process. It can be easily summized that there are countless Saints who are not formally recognized as such for reasons like they were not well known in life.

How do you feel about the Knights Templar and their movement to defend and grow the faith with blood?

So the Crusades? The Crusades were a necessary response to unchecked muslim aggression in the Holy Land. They are also a relic of a bygone era when the Church and State were thoroughly intertwined. Warfare should be a state matter, not a Church matter. Having a lack of separation between the two can seem like a good thing when it results in a positive influence on the State from the Church, but the downside as history has demonstrated is an inevitable negative influence on the Church from the State. I do not think we should return to the era of Crusading, enshrining holy war as a religious tenant is one of islam's greatest flaws.

How do you feel about Vatican City's existence?

Now you might read that last answer and expect me to be against it on the separation of Church and State grounds but that's not the case for Vatican City. The Vatican City may technically be its own country but that is out of necessity of indepenence not as a means of acting like a State on the world stage. In other words if the Vatican City were not its own country, and instead it was a part of Italy, the Italian State would have influence over it that it should not have.
With that out of the way, I feel that the Vatican City is necessary as a central headquarters for the administration of the world's largest religion. Catholicism has a presence in almost every single country on Earth. If we were to have a headquarters in a specific country it would not only be perceived as favoritism but, as I said above, would give that country undue influence over the Church. It is simply practical to have our own little place for such things.

If these are lame questions, I apologize. Raised evangelical and always pondered these thoughts without ever having a good opportunity to ask. When I did ask, the Catholic was mean, and the Christian called them Pope Whores and refused to elaborate.

I cannot speak for the Catholic you asked before, but I suspect they were mean because these are, frankly, tiresome, and often insulting, questions based in the anti-Catholic rhetoric and propaganda of the protestant reformation. Case in point this notion that Catholics and Christians are two separate things. Put bluntly, we are not only Christian, we are Christianity as its fullest. The Bible that protestants base everything around is our book. We are the ones who decided what is and what is not canon and assembled it. Without the Catholic Church the Bible as you know it would not exist. So perhaps you might appreciate how it can be frustrating to have a group come along, take your stuff, and then try to use your stuff as a basis to denounce and insult you.

 

[SofondaCox]

Thank you, Sir. Sincerely appreciate your reply. I think the crusades were not only a net good, but ultimate necessary due to the rabid Ottoman land grab.

Islam has the force of a billion inbred retards with it, who are groomed into the ideology and driven to spread the word by any means necessary. Why do we not see this level of drive in Christianity? What are Catholics doing to mitigate this, if anything? Do you think Catholicism can slow the Islamafication of Europe?

We have some incredible churches here. Recently, a minaret went up on what was a centuries old Catholic church, and it was frankly unsettling. Women in particular should be very concerned about this, but they seem too occupied with sterilizing their children.

 

[no-exit]

Islam has the force of a billion inbred retards with it, who are groomed into the ideology and driven to spread the word by any means necessary. Why do we not see this level of drive in Christianity? What are Catholics doing to mitigate this, if anything? Do you think Catholicism can slow the Islamafication of Europe?

I asked a Middle Eastern studies roommate of mine a similar question, concerning cultural differences and integration. From what I understand/remember, Islam can be prescriptive, politically, legally, etc. in ways that Catholicism is not. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that the Islam and the Quran will tell you how to run your governments and courts. This is how you get things like Sharia law, Islamic states, and Islamic monarchies. The closest Catholic equivalent is canon law. Even then, modern canon law is distinct from secular laws. Naturally, this leads some Muslim cultures to be fundamentally uncompromising. Maybe I'll text him and ask him to clarify now, I'm curious

 

[Preacher ✝]

Thank you, Sir. Sincerely appreciate your reply.

My pleasure. I forgot to say that those kinds of questions are also often asked in bad faith (pun intended) as a means of fishing for gotcha moments. I didn't think that was the case here but it is another reason why they can illicit a frustrated response.

I think the crusades were not only a net good, but ultimate necessary due to the rabid Ottoman land grab.

Basically this, but they are still a relic of a bygone era that its best we do not return to.

Islam has the force of a billion inbred retards with it, who are groomed into the ideology and driven to spread the word by any means necessary. Why do we not see this level of drive in Christianity?

As I said, the enshrinement of holy war as a religious tenant is one of islam's deepest flaws. To illustrate that point here is a quote from a prominent muslim apostate.

"Let me tell you why a Muslim would drive his car into a crowd of innocent people. I was raised Muslim, and I know exactly why this happens. It’s not poverty. It’s not oppression. It’s not even radicalization. It’s the logical outcome of Islamic doctrine itself. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Muslim or not; we, as human beings, carry guilt deep inside us. We know we are not good enough and spend our lives trying to redeem ourselves through good deeds, thinking it will make the guilt disappear.

Christianity, for example, offers a way out of guilt, a solution not based on your works but on Christ’s. Salvation isn’t earned; it’s given. You accept that you can’t redeem yourself because Christ did everything on your behalf. That means you’re free. Free to live, free to build, free to serve, free to love.

When Christians feel lost, broken, and needing forgiveness, they can go to church, talk to a pastor or priest, and leave knowing they have been forgiven.

Islam, on the other hand, doesn’t offer redemption; it weaponizes guilt. Instead of providing salvation, Allah exposes you, holds your sins over your head, and threatens you with hellfire and torture in the grave.

The Quran isn’t a book of peace; it’s a book of threats. It bullies Muslims into obedience through fear, humiliation, and punishment.

So, what happens when a Muslim seeks redemption? They try to be better Muslims. They pray, fast, give to charity, go on Hajj, and do everything Allah commands. But it never works. I know. I did it.

And no matter how much you pray, no matter how much you try, the guilt never goes away. Because deep down, every Muslim knows it’s not enough. Allah always demands more.

Allah loves those who die fighting against the infidels. That’s not an opinion, it’s in the Quran, Hadith, and every lesson taught to children.

This is why Muslims, even the so-called "moderates," always hesitate to condemn terrorism. Because they know Allah requires jihad. They might not be willing to commit it themselves, but they cannot say it’s wrong.

So when a Muslim fails to reach peace through religious rituals, they have two choices:

Give up, stop being devout, and learn to live with the guilt, or commit to jihad because that’s the only way to be true to yourself.

The Quran spells it out clearly: “Kill those who do not worship Allah or obey the Prophet” (9:29).

So when a Muslim embraces this identity fully, killing infidels isn’t just justified; it’s joyful. It’s an act of:
✔ Saving yourself
✔ Obeying Allah
✔ Securing your eternity
✔ Finally escaping the crushing weight of guilt

This is why a Muslim can drive his car into a crowd of innocent people and feel nothing but satisfaction. Because for the first time in his life, he finally believes he has done something worthy of redemption."

~ Imtiaz Mahmood

The fact that we do not see this in Christianity is ultimately for the greater good.

What are Catholics doing to mitigate this, if anything? Do you think Catholicism can slow the Islamafication of Europe?

As an American I am not particularly abreast of the front line efforts of Catholics in Europe. The number one thing any given Catholic can do is try to live their faith as best they can, and putting the weight of such large scale problems on your shoulders is often counterproductive to that.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Put bluntly, we are not only Christian, we are Christianity as its fullest. The Bible that protestants base everything around is our book. We are the ones who decided what is and what is not canon and assembled it.

Would love to hear your take on Vatican II, since that led to a dramatic shift in what is and isn't Catholic Orthodoxy. Although I'm not Catholic, a few that I've discussed theology with are pretty adamant that the Church was hijacked in 1958 and is no longer the real Church.

Although I'm aware that sedevanctists are definitely in the minority, you have to admit that claiming to be the one and only true way, the O.G. form of Christianity doesn't exactly fit well with how different the Catholic Church is before and since Vatican II. The gradual shift since then towards acceptance of things like homosexuality, abortion etc sort of lends credence to that idea, from an outsiders perspective..

When I've asked this before, most mainstream Catholics try to handwave it away, but the ones I know that are most steeped in Church history and their beliefs feel quite differently.