Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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And finally, that "child" Sinner she spared. Technically, not a child anymore. Since they ended up in Hell in the early 1900s and Vaggie has been in Hell for only three years after being cast out, we can safely say that kid is over a hundred years old. Unless the age that you die at is what you stay as mentally in Hell...which now I'm not sure which one I would consider better. Essentially an adult in a child's body, or the mental capacity of a kid that stays forever? God damn it Viv, why did you decide to have kids in Hell? I don't think you're ready to answer the many concerning implications this might have. Especially with your track record.
Come to think of it, we know that for some Sinners, their forms are meant to be an ironic depiction of their lives & deaths – Alastor's a deer because he got mistakenly shot by a hunter; Angel's a spider because he was at the center of a metaphorical web of crime; the inventor from the CHERUB episode of Helluva looks like a piano because he had one dropped on him, etc.
So what does it mean when a Sinner looks like a child? Either they had a childish personality, or they were someone who hurt children in life – maybe a child killer or... a pedophile. In other words, Lute may very well have cast Vaggie down to Hell for the crime of sparing a nonce.
 
What I find to be doubly funny is I don't believe we see any children in Heaven; either in Season 1's episodes or the leaked episode in Season 2. And both contained montage songs that showcased what Heaven is like.

Feels like I always ask the same question here at this point; what did you mean by this Viv?
 
Like Lute, I don't mind Adam's design. It's just that his personality doesn't scream "first ever man to exist and is over thousands of years old". (This is also just a problem with Viv's characters that the majority of them act like they're teens and/or young adults, even if they're over a millenia old.)
I feel like the angels and other residents of Heaven should have leaned more on the self-righteous aspect instead of making them as crass and rude as the residents of Hell (think Momoko from the Ghost Stories dub). They can still be funny, but there'd be more of a contrast between them and the protagonists instead of making it so everyone in the afterlife is swearing like a sailor.

They don't even do anything with the idea of Adam being the first man outside of a handful of jokes. When I first heard of the show, I thought Adam was just a biblical reference like that one Buffy villain, but then the first episode he was in had him confirm that he's the dude from the Bible.
 
Even if the Sinner was a child, Vaggie already has the IQ of a toaster given that she couldn't figure out angelic weapons can harm angels.

God, that will always bother me. Didn't Adam say Vaggie was one of the best Exorcists he had prior to her banishment? You'd think someone with such a track record, you would assume she has lots of knowledge regarding the Exorcists and how they function and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Viv, how many writers do you have for your corporate-backed multi-million dollar show again? None of y'all proofread this? Really?
 
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I was recently watching production videos from the Incredibles dvd. They had deleted scenes which featured interesting commentaries by Brad Bird, the director, explaining the scene. For one scene, he mentions really liking it, but after talking with the other staff, he realized he had to cut it later in production. He really liked the scene and found it painful to let it go, but understood he had to remove somethings.

Reminded me a lot of a certain someone from just how much it contrasted her.
 
Alright I've taken peoples recommendations in account and I'm starting a couple currently.



REDO Time

Crimson


Not much to say. Really bad design, hate the copy paste of child and parent thing they do in cartoons. It screams laziness and is really uncreative. And I hate that she milks these abusers and abusive characters when she should just kill them. It's still unknown if Crimson is alive, but knowing Viv he might be. More villains for no reason other than to milk abuse tropes it's so lazy and uncreative. Also why is there a mafia in hell?

Old design
Just Moxxie
No change in body type which makes him not appear threatening.
His outfit doesn't scream Greed.

New design
He is an outlier for greed Imps, as they are all thinner and more agile. Crimson is large and booming making him more intimidating.
His horns are in the shape of a hat as his horns are larger.
He doesn't have a single gold tooth all of his teeth are golden.
Changed his outfit color scheme to look more like greed.
Pushed for his puffy pants and made them bigger and puffier to make him look larger.
Lockpicking tail still, his is however broken in several places from his years in the this field.

Story wise

Crimson is head of a blackmarket organization. Specifically he gets his hands on very powerful weapons to sell them to overlords and powerful demons.

Crimson isn't the monogamous fellow and actually has a fetish for shark demons. He has a few children under his wing to help his "buissness" Moxxie is his last and youngest child.

Crimson has some internalized self hatred of imps, as they are seen as lower and weaker. No matter how hard he tries and succeeds and despite him breaking the imp mold. He will always be seen as weaker. But still wants a child to inherit his buissness.

He sleeps with a Wrathian woman.

Thinking his child would inherit more Wrathian traits and be more aggressive/ become very simular to him if not bigger. He is disappointed when Moxxie is born and gets his weaker recessive Greed traits.

Out of anger he kills his wife, drowning her without Moxxies knowledge.

He sees that Moxxie is weaker, frailer, and more passive. He is his biggest failure. He only keeps him as a possible prodigy. And takes it out on him by burning his cigar on his face as discipline making Moxxies iconic freakles.

As Moxxie grows his talent is knowing about firearms, weapon forging, and is overall intelligent.

Moxxie only knowing this kind of life hates his father, yet desperately craves for his approval and affection.

Chaz also works with Moxxie and they are the middle man selling weapons. Chaz gets into Crimsons good graces, he acts like a lovable moron. Pretending to be somewhat dimwitted but is incredibly reliable and follows Crimsons orders to a T. Gaining his trust and told tons of secrets about the buissness and where the weapons are.

Crimson compares him to Moxxie and often tortures him by hanging him up by his tail to "feed to the sharks". Now on thin ice Crimson gives them a task to sell a lucrative crate of fire arms that would be a huge pay off.

Chaz sets them up and they get ratted on. All the sharks under Crimsons control lose their allegiance and instead follow Chaz who is one of them. Chaz takes over Crimson is locked up, Moxxie however is on the run now.

As always

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God, that will always bother me. Didn't Adam say Vaggie was one of the best Exorcists he had prior to her banishment? You'd think someone with such a track record, you would assume she has lots of knowledge regarding the Exorcists and how they function and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Viv, how many writers do you have for your corporate-backed multi-million dollar show again? None of y'all proofread this? Really?
So much of the problems regarding the exterminations and Exorcists stims from the fact that Viv is complete and total ass at realizing just how long her timeline is.

The exterminations are said to have been a thing for "a thousand years" during the finale song, now I could list many things that are that long ago IRL, but I'll just say a thousand years ago the English language was in it's infancy and completely unrecognizable.

So according to the show, in a thousand years:
-No Exorcist has been attacked by a desperate Sinner wielding an angelic weapon.
-No Exorcist was injured/killed during training, either by sparring, by complete accident, incompetence wielding their weapon, them seeing what would happen for shits and giggles.
-NOTE: In addition to the above, Heaven already would have to have no idea the capabilites of their weapons.

That's not all, because the exterminations are also secret, so:
-No angel has wondered where the Adam and the Exorcists go once a year and followed up on it.
-No Exorcist was overheard bragging about the extermination by someone who could be taken seriously.
-Nobody in the know decided that people should know about it and shared the information publicly.

All of this never happened in at least an entire millennium, one thousand years, at least 9 times longer than even the oldest Human being has ever lived.
 
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Vaggie is genuinely the worst character in Hazbin just for the sheer fact that her existence causes all these plot holes and contrived explanations about how the exorcist and exterminations even work. I don't know how they managed to do that when her screen time is so minimal compare to other characters.

Stolas takes the spot in Helluva btw, I'm torn between which of the two is worse.
 
What I find to be doubly funny is I don't believe we see any children in Heaven; either in Season 1's episodes or the leaked episode in Season 2. And both contained montage songs that showcased what Heaven is like.

Feels like I always ask the same question here at this point; what did you mean by this Viv?
I guess the reason why Hell has children is due to them being sinners at such a young age.

"Your sins run deep despite your short life, may even those in hell know about your misdeeds."

Pentious' having extra eyes was also a punishment since he witnessed a murder and didn't come forth to reveal the murderer.

"May eyes sprout across your body that always see the depravities hell has to offer"

Any children & old people eglible for heaven probably get rewarded with a body in their prime so their age no longer limits them to partake in heaven's activities.
 
I guess the reason why Hell has children is due to them being sinners at such a young age.

"Your sins run deep despite your short life, may even those in hell know about your misdeeds."

Pentious' having extra eyes was also a punishment since he witnessed a murder and didn't come forth to reveal the murderer.

"May eyes sprout across your body that always see the depravities hell has to offer"

Any children & old people eglible for heaven probably get rewarded with a body in their prime so their age no longer limits them to partake in heaven's activities.
Headcannon as Viv does not read the Bible, and I highly doubt she knows any of what you're talking about.
 
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You really did a fantastic job here, not only is he more intimidating, but there is a genuine aura to him that makes him not one to be messed around with, almost like The Kingpin from Marvel. Also really shows that outside of Satan and Verosika's bodyguard, there really aren't that many muscular characters in this verse

Vaggie is genuinely the worst character in Hazbin just for the sheer fact that her existence causes all these plot holes and contrived explanations about how the exorcist and exterminations even work. I don't know how they managed to do that when her screen time is so minimal compare to other characters.

Stolas takes the spot in Helluva btw, I'm torn between which of the two is worse.
Between Vaggie and Stolas, I think Stolas should easily be worse. At least Vaggie has the personality of cardboard and isn't a gaslighting, irritating, annoying, abusive, narcissistic predator who acts like a big baby when things don't go his way that is rewarded by the universe for his behavior.

For me though, Vaggie is still less egregious than Sera whose retardation and motivations for being behind the exterminations and keeping them secret is worse in Hazbin. Vaggie being stupid is one thing, but one of the high ranking seraphim being this stupid is just olympic level stupidity.
 
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Vaggie is genuinely the worst character in Hazbin just for the sheer fact that her existence causes all these plot holes and contrived explanations about how the exorcist and exterminations even work. I don't know how they managed to do that when her screen time is so minimal compare to other characters.

Stolas takes the spot in Helluva btw, I'm torn between which of the two is worse.
Stolas will always be worse since he is the sole cause of changing the entire dynamic of a work comedy show to a soap opera.
 
<cool shit>
I lurk this thread because like all of you I'm autistic as fuck but this post is the one to get me to comment. This is awesome, I love to see people taking Viv's pretty neat but heavily, heavily flawed ideas and mold them into something great. This design especially is really fucking cool, I adore how imposing you made him just by using scale and bulking out his clothing.
 
I lurk this thread because like all of you I'm autistic as fuck but this post is the one to get me to comment. This is awesome, I love to see people taking Viv's pretty neat but heavily, heavily flawed ideas and mold them into something great. This design especially is really fucking cool, I adore how imposing you made him just by using scale and bulking out his clothing.
Much appreciated. When I was doing concepts I was playing with his body and proportions alot. Really wanted to make him a threatening bulked up brick. Something that a child is scared to death of, and an adult is seen a looming threat of. Something that would really add to the fear and abuse Moxxie experiences, as currently his original design looks like he could easily take him.
 
Alright I'm planning to do a redo soon, thinking of someone to do. I already have a few in mind and did some concept art of tons of different characters at work and doing a small amount of writing. Now its just polishing.
Which would you guys like to see coming up?

-Mammon
-Vaggie
-Glitz/Glam
-Crimson
-Chaz
-Lute
-Adam
I'm still planning on doing them of course just going to focus on a more preferred character to finalize a design.

Also so far which do people like the most? I want to get a gadge of what others think sticks out on the character, and to hone in what makes a design pop out and or makes them demonically iconic. Standard stuff to work on with shape language of these characters. As I am making sure each one has something to differentiate from one another adding different body types, sizes, and making a prominent feature stick out.
Well if you were to do Adam, perhaps give him some elements of a barbaric man raised to a high station that he actually resents. Something that conveys the glory and refinement of heaven, yet contrasted with the savagery of mankind.
 
So much of the problems regarding the exterminations and Exorcists stims from the fact that Viv is complete and total ass at realizing just how long her timeline is.

The exterminations are said to have been a thing for "a thousand years" during the finale song, now I could list many things that are that long ago IRL, but I'll just say a thousand years ago the English language was in it's infancy and completely unrecognizable.
...
All of this never happened in at least an entire millennium, one thousand years, at least 9 times longer than even the oldest Human being has ever lived.
Viv is the Anti-JK Rowling when it comes to world building competency. I think it's the ADHD.
 
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