Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

Who is the best Catholic apologist alive today?

  • Bishop Robert Barron

    Votes: 43 48.3%
  • Fr. Mike Schmitz

    Votes: 39 43.8%
  • Trent Horn

    Votes: 23 25.8%
  • Jimmy Akin

    Votes: 14 15.7%
  • Joe Heschmeyer

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Matt Fradd

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • Scott Hahn

    Votes: 13 14.6%
  • Brayden Cook - TheCatechumen

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Taylor Marshall

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Christian Fagner

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • James White

    Votes: 7 7.9%

  • Total voters
    89
Okay well I was just doing some ribbing and wanted to chat with separated bretheren but you had to sperg out like a retard.
Seraphim Rose was a faggot
He struggled and conquered his passions, as we all are called to do. He went above what either us have done and gave his life to God and the Kingdom.

who allowed a known pedophile to run his monastery.
Big talk from a latin. Allegations came out many years after Blessed fr. Seraphim Rose's repose in 1982 and none of them said he knew anything about Podomshensky's crimes. He also died defrocked and in shame, unlike priests of a certain other church I know.

I will never trust the judgment of the Orthodoxy on anything when they canonized a Serbian king who was divorced 3+ times and married and consummated with a 5-year-old.
Oh you don't trust the judgement of the entire Eastern Church because the Serbs made one of their kings a saint? What a ridiculous dig. Royal saints have always been given leeway as an act economia. The universally recognized Emperor saints and the Christian barbarian kings who are on the latin calendar weren't exactly good boys who dindu nuffin.
I guess Muslims ruling over you so long makes that seem normal.
What a thing to jest about. The Eastern Church witnessed Christ after betrayal after betrayal by the Latins left them at the mercy of the Church's enemies while your mafia popes sucked off every King who would back them in their attempt to rule Europe. Just know I have compassion for you and other separated bretheren while you are ruled by globohomo jesuits. Make sure to get between the toes when your washing the nigger's feet!

Sit down and go watch Gay Cryer.
I only vaguely know who that is because I'm not a sperg
 
Would love to hear your take on Vatican II
In general I think Vatican II is largely misunderstood. In no small part because it was poorly communicated on multiple levels.
Church was hijacked in 1958 and is no longer the real Church.
This is pure sedevacantist cope. Sedevacantists are just another flavor of protestant, and they commit the same core sin of apostasy. The only real difference between them is that sedevacantists are theologically closer to unity, and thus, like the Orthodox, retain some sacramental validity.
you have to admit that claiming to be the one and only true way, the O.G. form of Christianity doesn't exactly fit well with how different the Catholic Church is before and since Vatican II
I do not have to admit any such thing since it is not true. The Church has divine authority bestowed by Christ. That is what the powers to bind and loose refer to. That boils down to what the Church says goes. They say it's okay to accept communion in the hand while standing, then it's okay to do so. If they come out and say that's no longer okay then it stops being okay. Simple as.

Furthermore the percieved difference is drastically exaggerated and people tend to blame Vatican II for any and everything they personally disagree with. If you think this is the first time the Church has made an adaptive change then you're clearly not well versed in history. Have you ever heard of the counter-reformation?
acceptance of things like homosexuality, abortion etc
No such thing has occurred. This is often misrepresented by the sensationalist, Jewish, Media. What has occurred is an effort to stop dehumanizing the people who are committing these sins, not an acceptance of the sin itself. The principle is to love the sinner, and hate the sin, but in the past it was all too common to let hatred of sin overflow into hatred of the sinner. To understand this just ask yourself 'What would Christ do?' and then look at scripture for examples, here are two.

Matthew 9:10-13
10 And as he sat at table[a] in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Jesus and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
John 8:3-11
3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”
The people who want to hate the sinner for their sins would not sit with the sinner, and they would most certainly cast stones. Christ condemned the sin, but showed mercy to the sinner, and that is what the Church is trying to do with faggots and murderers (abortion is murder). The Church exists to help people, not persecute them.

So when Pope Francis says its wrong to disown your children because they are homosexual, he isn't saying homosexuality is any less sinful, just that you should keep loving your children even if they are unrepentant sinners.
 
Seraphim Rose was a faggot who allowed a known pedophile to run his monastery. Cope and seethe. I will never trust the judgment of the Orthodoxy on anything when they canonized a Serbian king who was divorced 3+ times and married and consummated with a 5-year-old. I guess Muslims ruling over you so long makes that seem normal. BTW, want to know what his saintly deed was? He built a church at a monastery...that already had multiple churches. Sit down and go watch Gay Cryer.
View attachment 7092561View attachment 7092562

"What about a non-Catholic apologist?" :roll:

You have reminded me of an apologist I did miss from my very own Milwaukee, Dr. John Salza. You should watch his video that dismantles both sedevacantism and SSPX. He doesn't have Twitter or even his own YouTube as he mainly appears as guests on other channels, but he has his own website, True or False Pope, which is focused on proving schismatics wrong with essays and other writings.
@Jinn in the phone basically nailed my initial response, and frankly I was more than happy to shrug it off and let the Catholic thread remain Catholic, but this specifically lead to an interesting little example of possible Academic Deception.

That edit is disputed. That part about raping Simonida has been edited to and from a half dozen times in the past few months. Admittedly, it’s one guy who keeps pushing against it, but I checked the linked source; Child Sexual Abuse: Historical Cases in THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE by J. Lascaratos and it links to “Nicephori Gregorae historae Byzantinae” by L. Schopen in 1829. This is referring to the “Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae: Pars XIX: Nicephorus Gregoras Vol. I” or “Nicephori Gregorae historae Byzantina”. I did not make a mistake on either title, the author did not appropriately cite the text nor did he get even the spelling of the title right. A text that is entirely in Greek and Latin, translated from Greek to Latin by a German man in Bonn in 1829.

There is not one reference to that act in any of the three volumes, especially in the pages he cited, in which it relates Simonidas’ attempt to evade King Milutin at the age of 20 by disguising herself as a nun. The sources may have gotten mixed up, or he mistranslated or acquired a bad translation, or he just made it up entirely. Either way, the citation for the Wikipedia article shouldn’t have used Lascaratos, and instead should have used the original source.

Freely provided is the article cited (through Scribd) and all three volumes on Internet Archive to check for yourself.

Cited Article

Volume I
Volume II
Volume III
 
That edit is disputed. That part about raping Simonida has been edited to and from a half dozen times in the past few months. Admittedly, it’s one guy who keeps pushing against it, but I checked the linked source; Child Sexual Abuse: Historical Cases in THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE by J. Lascaratos and it links to “Nicephori Gregorae historae Byzantinae” by L. Schopen in 1829. This is referring to the “Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae: Pars XIX: Nicephorus Gregoras Vol. I” or “Nicephori Gregorae historae Byzantina”. I did not make a mistake on either title, the author did not appropriately cite the text nor did he get even the spelling of the title right. A text that is entirely in Greek and Latin, translated from Greek to Latin by a German man in Bonn in 1829.

There is not one reference to that act in any of the three volumes, especially in the pages he cited, in which it relates Simonidas’ attempt to evade King Milutin at the age of 20 by disguising herself as a nun. The sources may have gotten mixed up, or he mistranslated or acquired a bad translation, or he just made it up entirely. Either way, the citation for the Wikipedia article shouldn’t have used Lascaratos, and instead should have used the original sourc
First of all, with all the deception of Wikipedia, I can't believe you're defending edit reverts. Even if we leave those reverts aside, the fact is that her birth year and her marriage year are not disputed. He divorced his wife to marry her. How is that virtuous?

But again, even more of the Orthodox taqiiyyah about that source. First off, I literally googled the title directly from the citation and it popped up instantly.
1742192212848.png1742192262177.png
The book is half written in Greek and half in Latin. He cited the Latin name of the book which is in the book itself.
1742192302302.png
Obviously Google Translate can only go so far, but take this excerpt in Latin from page 288 that mentions Constantine the Despot, who was Simonida's half-brother.
1742192911569.png1742193549603.png
Now stop shitting up our thread, schismnigger.
 
with all the deception of Wikipedia, I can't believe you're defending edit reverts
And yet you were the one to cite Wikipedia as the source to begin with.
even more of the Orthodox taqiiyyah about that source
You literally posted everything I had already said and just pretended like it said that he consummated the relationship when she was premature, when it was really the story about her hiding.

Political Saints are much more difficult because of the world they have to inhabit; King Canute IV raided Catholic England several times when he himself was Catholic and had made plans to conquer it. King Louis IX committed to the disastrous Seventh and Eighth Crusades, and inadvertently caused the Shepherds Crusade.

The notion he consummated his marriage (which, by all accounts, appears to be a totally political one, considering Stefan wanted to marry a different family member, but was rejected and was offered Simonida instead) sounds like Aisha and Mohammed. Considering Bosnia and Albania, and the general adjacency to Islam, comes off as intentional slander or folk tales. But that’s speculation, one that I’m not citing as a contemporary of the time saying so directly.
 
The Church has divine authority bestowed by Christ. That is what the powers to bind and loose refer to. That boils down to what the Church says goes. They say it's okay to accept communion in the hand while standing, then it's okay to do so. If they come out and say that's no longer okay then it stops being okay. Simple as.

Well has Jesus explained why he has changed his mind on so many things since Vatican II?
 
Trent Horn once debated Destiny IIRC. I don't know what the topic was or how it turned out, but I'm sure the footsoldiers thought their sexpest e-daddy totally owned the papist chud.
 
Trent Horn once debated Destiny IIRC. I don't know what the topic was or how it turned out, but I'm sure the footsoldiers thought their sexpest e-daddy totally owned the papist chud.

Apparently this was one of the better debates Destiny was involved in with he and Trent being fairly respectful to one another.

Of course, knowing Destiny he basically would later say Trent avoided some questions during the debate with Trent responded and showing Destiny was talking out of his ass.
 
Well has Jesus explained why he has changed his mind on so many things since Vatican II?
This kind of framing is an indication that you're asking these questions in bad faith.

There have not been any "changes" that go against the teachings of Christ, let alone enough to be called "so many".

And as I have explained multiple times now, Christ was the one who bestowed the relevant authority to the Church, so if anything the apostates who schism away from the Church are the ones that owe such an explanation.
 

Apparently this was one of the better debates Destiny was involved in with he and Trent being fairly respectful to one another.

Of course, knowing Destiny he basically would later say Trent avoided some questions during the debate with Trent responded and showing Destiny was talking out of his ass.
I hadn't looked up any Catholic theologians in a while, and that was one of the first results for Trent Horn. I couldn't help thinking, "c'mon, Trent, that's beneath you."
 
I wanted to bring up the fact I still laugh out loud semi-regularly at that one time Matt Fradd invited some Muslim convert to tell people should get rid of their 401k's or else they're going to hell.
That's Jacob Imam. I was actually really moved by his conversion story and he's even starting up a Catholic trad school that looks really cool. But he bought into the Distributist LARP big time.
 
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This kind of framing is an indication that you're asking these questions in bad faith.

There have not been any "changes" that go against the teachings of Christ, let alone enough to be called "so many".

Not my intent. So then how would you frame Vatican II? What was it's purpose, what did it change (and why) etc?

If it was necessary in 1958 in your mind, then why wasn't it necessary in 1858 (or 1758.. ). What changed, that caused the Church to take whatever steps (as you define) were taken during and after Vatican II?

I am asking in good faith, albeit in a jaded way, because anytime the subject comes up - as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is a move to suppress the discussion or hand-wave it away as unimportant. Except, the Church clearly thought it was quite important. Why - and equally important, why then? What changed?
 
The Catholic Church is an international crime syndicate pretending to be a religion there's a reason the Bible says from your fruit shall you know them the Catholic Church produced people like Pope Francis Pope Borger.
It's funny no other institution is more linked with pedophilia for good reason the Catholic Church is filled with a bunch of spineless Bader men.
Just a reminder that the Italian mob with that excommunicated from the Orthodox Church which you were not allowed to enter an orthodox church or a member of the Russian Mafia.
If Italy became communist the pope would probably be a proud member of the Communist Party not that Pope Francis isn't just a straight up communist with extra steps thank God that he is punished the blasphemous Catholics with Pope Francis May he destroy the Satanist Crime Syndicate Moon as the Vatican
 
So then how would you frame Vatican II? What was it's purpose, what did it change (and why) etc?
To really answer this we need to nail down what Vatican II actually changed. Fortunately I found a handy list of the big points, so I'll go over them and give my take, but first a preface.

Preface: I'm not the world's greatest apologist, and I can be wrong about things. I recommend you also consider the words of more accomplished apologists. If you go to YouTube and search "Bishop Barron Vatican II" you'll find a whole bunch of good videos on the subject.

With that out of the way, here's my take on a change by change basis covering the big points in three categories. The first sentence is the summary provided by the list, my take follows it.

Category the first, Liturgical changes, these are changes to the form, but not the function, of the Mass and mark the distinction between the Traditional Latin Mass, or TLM, and the Novus Ordo Mass, or NO.

Vernacular Mass: Mass was no longer exclusively in Latin; priests could celebrate Mass in the local language, encouraging greater participation from the congregation. As I understand it this change, like most of the Liturgical changes, was to make the celebration of Mass more accessible, understandable, and engaging for the congregation. Instead of going to Mass and hearing the Priest conduct the service in a language you don't know, now its in your native language so you can understand the words which begets giving them more thought and impact. Despite what some claim this change did not eliminate the Traditional Latin Mass, which is still practiced every week in many Churches.

Priest Facing the People: The priest now faces the congregation during the Eucharistic prayer, emphasizing the community aspect of the liturgy. Also known as versus populum as opposed to ad orientum when the Priest faces the same direction as the congregation. As above this was intended to make the mass more engaging for the congregation, not much else to say about it off hand. I have seen Mass where the Novus Ordo is conducted ad orientum too.

Expanded Readings: The number of readings during Mass increased, and the church now cycles through all four Gospels over three years. Bringing more of scripture into Mass and adding the cycle to reduce repetition is one of the changes you never hear any complaints about. I like having more scripture and less repetition in Mass.

Revised Sacramental Rites: The rites for the sacraments were revised, and the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults was reformed. This change has no effect on the theological nature of the Sacraments themselves, merely how they are celebrated, and it was done to emphasisize their communal nature. This is very much in line with the overall theme of making things more accessible, understandble, and engaging. The revival and reformation of RCIA was hugely important and has helped countless adults convert to Catholicism in the decades since.

Simplified Liturgical Calendar: The liturgical calendar was simplified. Honestly this could warrant its own sublist but this post is going to be long enough already. Still in line with the theme of making things accessible and engaging, without getting into the weeds of what specifically was changed about the liturgical calendar, what I find noteworthy is that these changes put more focus on the Christ. The new liturgical calendar is designed to lead believers through the mysteries of Christ's life, from Advent to Pentecost and Ordinary Time over the course of the year.

Active Participation: Emphasis was placed on the active participation of the laity in the liturgy. Leaning in heavily on the engaging aspect of the overall theme this change makes the congregation more of a part of mass than before.

Next we have the Doctrinal and Theological changes, which makes them sound more impactful than they really are, and thus they are often the ones people try to twist into being scandalous when they aren't.

Religious Freedom: The council affirmed the right to religious freedom, a significant shift from the Church's previous stance. This is not the Church saying it's okay to not be Catholic. This is the Church saying that, because God gave us all free will, you have the right to use that free will even if it means you're wrong. This is a formal culmination of a shift that had been ongoing for over a century by the time of Vatican II. It used to be that the Church would persecute people for apostasy, you saw this in things like the Inquisition, and events surrounding the Reformation and Counter Reformatiom. The underlying principle in the shift away from such persecution is that no one truly comes to the Lord by force. This affirmation brings the Church more in line with God, because God would rather have true and honest believers than people who are pretending out of fear of persecution.

Ecumenism: Vatican II promoted ecumenical dialogue with other Christian denominations and religions, fostering greater understanding and cooperation. This goes hand in hand with the previous change and is somewhat more self serving than it might sound. Again this is not the Church saying that other denominations are any less wrong, but since we are acknowledging people have the right to be wrong, we should also be reaching out and trying to work with them in their wrongness instead of shunning them. Furthermore by increasing understanding between the denominations we might be able to curb the rampant anti-Catholic sentiment and propaganda spread by protestants, most of which is rooted in a poor and misleading concept of Catholicism.

Relationship with Judaism: The Church's relationship with Judaism was redefined, rejecting the traditional accusation that Jews were responsible for the death of Christ and condemning anti-Semitism. This is the one that gets all the conspiracy theorists riled up but it's not what they make it out to be. To some degree it is a response to WWII, and the allegations of the Holocaust, which at the time of Vatican II was considered completely factual. However the more important part of this is purely theological and grounded. While the notion that Jews killed Jesus makes for a spicy meme, theologically its completely missing the point. Christ didn't die because the Jews wanted him to die, Christ died for our sins; Christ died to redeem us all. To reduce that act down to the work and responsibility of the Jews is a gross devaluation of the truth.

The Church as the "People of God": The Church was described as the "people of God," emphasizing the role of all baptized members in the Church's mission. This can be summarized as calling people to live their faith more actively. It goes along with the Liturgical changes above, now that mass is more accessible and understandble, we should take it's lessons and apply them to our lives.

Role of Bishops: The role of bishops was given more weight, and the concept of collegiality (shared responsibility between the Pope and bishops) was emphasized. Really this is less of a new change and more of a return to the way things used to be done. The Pope is supposed to be the first among equals with the rest of the Bishops, and this change brings us back to that.

Lay Ministries
: Lay readers and lay ministers of Communion appeared during Mass; Laity were represented on parish councils and diocesan boards, and lay men and women, many with theology degrees, replaced clerics in a number of administrative church positions. Sticking with the overall themes again, now that the laity has a more accessible faith that easier to understand the Church wants to offer them more ways to engage with it not just at Mass but in general. As an added benefit this increases dramatically the pool of people the Church can call upon for help in its administrative needs.

Finally we have a third category to catch some other notable changes that don't fit the first two categories.

Social Communication: The council addressed the role of media and social communication in the Church's mission. This is the only of these changes that really matters. By the time of Vatican II it was clear that media was going to be an increasingly important part of people's lives. New technologies like Radio and Television were having profound effects on people so the Church had to formalize its own approach to such things. A driving force of this change was the work of Blessed Fulton Sheen, who hosted a his own Radio series called The Catholic Hour and then a Television series called Life is Worth Living before Vatican II happened. Sheen's work showed the Church as a whole that Radio and Television could be used very effectively for the good of the Church and the people.

New Catechism: A new Catechism of the Catholic Church was developed to reflect the teachings of Vatican II.
Revised Canon Law: The Church's canon law was revised to reflect the changes brought about by the council.
I'm grouping these last two together because there really isnt much to say about them beyond what's on the tin. Vatican II changed some things, so lets make sure our teachings and laws reflect those changes. Simple as.
If it was necessary in 1958 in your mind, then why wasn't it necessary in 1858 (or 1758.. ). What changed, that caused the Church to take whatever steps (as you define) were taken during and after Vatican II?
First of all, Vatican II was 1962-1965 not 1958. Second necessary is a strong word, and its hard to really quantify in terms of my mind because I wasn't alive before Vatican II so I don't have that frame of reference in a personal sense. Besides it's hardly my place to say how necessary such things are or aren't anyway. In a more general sense the world is constantly changing, the Church has to find a balance between maintaining tradition and adapting to modern life so it can deliver the value of that tradition to the people. I think the previous section did a good job of making it clear that the themes of Vatican II were accessibility, understanding, and engagement. As for why these changes didn't happen one or two hundred years I would say the most logical reason is that previous councils had more important matters to discuss than the relatively minor changes in Vatican II. Prior to Vatican II the most recent council was Vatican I, which occurred from 1869 to 1870. Prior to that we have to go all the way back to 1500s for the Council of Trent which was 1545-1563. For a more tangible example though consider the point on social communication. The Church could not address the role of new technologies like Radio and Television in it's mission before such technologies were invented.

I am asking in good faith, albeit in a jaded way, because anytime the subject comes up - as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is a move to suppress the discussion or hand-wave it away as unimportant. Except, the Church clearly thought it was quite important. Why - and equally important, why then? What changed?
Honestly I believe the hand waving or suppression you're referring to is largely reactionary. People are tired of Vatican II being blamed for everything and made out to be some massive conspiracy when it's not. So many people ask about it bad faith that the ones who are genuine get drowned out in the noise. Really Vatican II is just the most recent in a series of 21 Ecumenical Councils that have occurred in the history of the Church. Here's a nice summary of what each Council did. As for why, the Church is arguably the largest and most important organization in the world and it bears an immense responsibility. Thus these councils serve the important function of maintaining internal cohesion, assessing how well that responsibility is being fulfilled and making adjustments to fulfill that responsibility better in the face of an ever changing world.
 
The Catholic Church is an international crime syndicate pretending to be a religion there's a reason the Bible says from your fruit shall you know them the Catholic Church produced people like Pope Francis Pope Borger.
Brother, Protestants run the best and most corrupt crime orgs in the world.


It's funny no other institution is more linked with pedophilia for good reason the Catholic Church is filled with a bunch of spineless Bader men.
Protestants get away with less scrutiny because of how utterly divided they are, but it happens way more and on just as large a scale.


Just a reminder that the Italian mob with that excommunicated from the Orthodox Church which you were not allowed to enter an orthodox church or a member of the Russian Mafia.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

If Italy became communist the pope would probably be a proud member of the Communist Party not that Pope Francis isn't just a straight up communist with extra steps thank God that he is punished the blasphemous Catholics with Pope Francis
Pope Francis probably would enjoy a communist Italy, given his upbringing, but that doesn’t mean he’d go against the Church. Also, please explain what blasphemies the Church has committed.
May he destroy the Satanist Crime Syndicate Moon as the Vatican
Did Pastor Jim-Bob teach you about us?
 
First of all, Vatican II was 1962-1965 not 1958.

Let me start by saying that I appreciate your well thought out response.

The argument against Vatican II (from my understanding), begins with the death in 1958 of who many Sedevacantists consider to be "the last real Pope", Pope Pius XII. So that's why I used that date, since Vatican II is just considered to be a culmination of things that started with the ascendancy of Pope John XXIII who they consider to be the first in a long line of illegitimate Popes.

a significant shift from the Church's previous stance. This is not the Church saying it's okay to not be Catholic. This is the Church saying that, because God gave us all free will, you have the right to use that free will even if it means you're wrong. This is a formal culmination of a shift that had been ongoing for over a century by the time of Vatican II. It used to be that the Church would persecute people for apostasy, you saw this in things like the Inquisition, and events surrounding the Reformation and Counter Reformatiom.

To some degree it is a response to WWII, and the allegations of the Holocaust, which at the time of Vatican II was considered completely factual

New Catechism: A new Catechism of the Catholic Church was developed to reflect the teachings of Vatican II.
Revised Canon Law: The Church's canon law was revised to reflect the changes brought about by the council.

See, these stance shifts/political responses/canonical changes etc are where the problem lies, in many people's eyes. It's hard to square the idea that the Church is the final word on all things Christianity, when the Church then acknowledges where it was wrong in the past. Even if taken at face value, it means logically that the Church of the future will look back on the modern Church and want to make updates or change course. Which is fine, but that means by definition that the modern Church is flawed in their current canon, directives etc to some degree.

This affirmation brings the Church more in line with God

And there's the rub. It's a de facto admission that at best, the Church wasn't properly in line with God to begin with.

Some would argue that The Church has moved further from being in line with God. I would let an actual Sedevacantist make that argument, since it's not really relevant to my point - which is simply that from a logical standpoint, either the Church was wrong then, or wrong now. So if God is unchanging, well then you see where the problem lies.
 
either the Church was wrong then, or wrong now. So if God is unchanging, well then you see where the problem lies.
I think I understand why you're having an issue.

First let me refer to scripture.

1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 -
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

What Saint Paul is saying here in his first letter to the Corinthians is that we have at best a partial and unclear understand of God, even in the immediate wake of Christ. We see God through a glass, darkly, but when all is fulfilled we will have true full understanding. In many ways the 21 Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church have been an ongoing, cumulative, and collective effort to discern and refine our understanding of God.

It's hard to square the idea that the Church is the final word on all things Christianity, when the Church then acknowledges where it was wrong in the past.
What is relevant here is that the source of the Church's authority is not the merit of its administrators, but divine decree. In other words the Church is the final word on all things Christianity because Christ deemed it to be so, not because the men who administer the Church have achieved some level of perfect understanding. When you think about it like that it really shouldnt surprise you and its far more logical than the alternative. Christ was perfect, the rest of us are not. There is no sense trying to build anything off the merit of men, it is a poor foundation compared to the word of Christ.
 
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