Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Something to mention about the US Military right now is that I have 0 faith that Pete Hegseth will actually make the military better. The dude decided it would be a good idea to alienate the faggots by saying that they should be leaving the military, and then some other retarded shit like "no DEI! NO BLACKS! NO MEXICANS!" (not literally but you get my point) while also jumping on the Retarded shit like "we need to restore our grooming standards and make our men the most tip top shape!" While he talks about how the fitness standard is too lax + too many obese servicemen.

The thing with this though is that this alky will likely not take into account that about 2/3 of the military are not in combat roles AND that BMI is not a good indicator. plus, you can be a faggot and have long nails and still be more than capable of drone striking a bunch of Hajis. It's fine and dandy to want your troops to be fit. But if you just start dismissing a bunch of soldiers willy nilly because their BMI has them as obese in the middle of a recruitment AND retention crisis? Well. Only so much you can really do as a military when you have a bunch of equipment with nobody to actually use them...

if Pete Hegseth were a competent SecDef, he'd just shut the fuck up and maintain the status quo at bare minimum (in terms of the social shit) and maybe work to try and get the military in better shape by having more internal quotas and shit on a Unit-by-unit basis (since not every unit is the same nor would necessarily require the same fitness standards)
 
Discipline is required for a force to be effective. Plain and simple. That will never change.

Grooming standards are a strong method to enforce both discipline and uniformity. The purpose of shining your boots back in the day was never to just have shiny boots.

I'm a retard and even I figured that one out.
 
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Discipline is required for a force to be effective. Plain and simple. That will never change.

Grooming standards are a strong method to enforce both discipline and uniformity. The purpose of shining your boots back in the day was never to just have shiny boots.

I'm retard and even I figured that one out.


My point is not that grooming standards is wrong.

It's when you decide to start needlessly punishing people over it that people get disenfranchised. A disenfranchised soldier is just as bad if not worse than an unfit soldier. I dont have faith that Hegseth will do it effectively. I almost forgot to mention that most of what he is looking at anyway has to do with the religious and cultural shit.
 
If you can't trust a joe to do something as stupid as shine his boots or follow grooming standards as a boot when it doesn't matter then you won't be able to trust him to do something actually important when life depends on it.

This is boot camp shit for a reason bro.
 
The US Future Years Defense Program Strategy of Denial calls for eliminating between 14 and 21 Army Brigade Combat Teams in scenarios where Defense spending stays the same or decreases by 10%. Even if spending increases there is no BCT increase for the Army. If it doesn't help the army in PACOM it's low priority. Munitions are prioritized over manpower in the near future budget.

Retention is a short term problem. If people gotta go then faggots and fatties are low hanging fruit.
 
@Fuck It We'll Do It Live
Sounds like that that's the package Scholz spiked in a futile effort to not get wrecked by the AfD finally going through.
German MPs approve €500bn spending boost to counter ‘Putin’s war of aggression’
Historic levels of spending on military and infrastructure secured in Bundestag with last-minute backing of Greens
Tue 18 Mar 2025
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:woo:
 
Oh boy, pages worth of off-topic GWOT posting. Wonderful addition to the thread.


Ukrainian F-16 flies at low altitude over Sumy.

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Russian view of the Ukrainian retreat from Kursk:
At the moment [March 12th], the enemy has retreated from the largest settlements of the region, conducting exclusively rearguard battles. Russian fighters are simply following in the footsteps of the retreating enemy, occupying deserted settlements. Judging by the pre-dug trenches on the streets, the Ukrainian Armed Forces clearly planned and assumed the possibility of defending Sudzha and its environs, but reality dictated its own conditions .

Judging by the available footage from the ground and drones, there are not only no serious battles, but also no critical losses in armored vehicles during the retreat, as well as abandoned parking lots or their storage areas. There is no complete picture yet and something may change, but so far everything suggests that although during the retreat the Ukrainian Armed Forces suffered significant losses among personnel and light equipment, they were able to preserve their main forces, their armor and the integrity of the formations .

The retreat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from the Kursk region is more reminiscent of the withdrawal of the Russian army from Kherson in November 2022 (minus the successful strikes on those retreating now), on whose heels the Ukrainian army followed and hung out flags, than a sudden and wholesale flight on the level of Izyum, when the enemy was left with dozens of abandoned and broken armored vehicles.

Unfortunately, once again it was not possible to organize a physical "cauldron" for the enemy. As in the overwhelming majority of scenarios, the Ukrainian Armed Forces hold the defense until the last moment and begin to retreat right before the threat of encirclement, withdrawing the main forces with equipment from the threatened area. The rather limited infantry forces thrown on the strongholds to cover the retreat are captured and destroyed. So in this situation, the main losses were suffered by scattered groups of infantry, retreating on foot and in vehicles under the blows of Russian FPV drones.

As before, the reason for the absence of large encirclements is the radically changed nature of the battlefield . If previously a bottleneck just a few kilometers wide would have been packed in by the forces of literally one tank battalion in a few hours, now this battalion in full force will be left to burn out in the fields and roads without having covered even half the distance. And without sudden and rapid mechanized breakthroughs to the rear, an unexpected encirclement for the enemy simply cannot occur.

Now, most likely, part of the withdrawn enemy forces will go to replenish and rest after heavy losses during months of fighting, while some of the freshest will immediately begin fighting in other directions. The same is true for the RF Armed Forces - a multi-thousand-strong group was formed to liberate the Kursk region, part of which consists of units previously transferred from other directions, and which will be needed elsewhere.
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Trump was still talking about some big encirclement as of yesterday though.



3rd Company of the Mainland Battalion.
Volchansk direction.
Combating enemy drones with electronic warfare and anti-drone guns does not always seem effective. The enemy is constantly changing frequencies, and its pilots are becoming more experienced in controlling drones.
But the 308 caliber somehow has those frequencies like a drum. In the skilled hands of a sniper with the call sign "Small", the rifle launches bullets, and the enemy Mavics are grounded.

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Electric motorcycle "Coyote" at the Army 2024 forum.
Designed for transporting personnel and weapons on paved and unpaved roads.
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The Russian Army has gone WOKE and DEI and CLIMATE CHANGE.



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A close-up photo of the previously spotted in Crimea AK-306 naval gun, installed in the back of a KamAZ truck.
It appears that the anti-aircraft gun was equipped with some kind of sighting device to independently aim at the target.
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Russian drone misfires.

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Novel Russian logistics vehicle.


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The Russian soldier simply ignores the Ukrainian drone, which then not only misses him at point-blank range, but also does not explode immediately.

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Ignoring the drone does not always work though.
Hearing an FPV drone, two Russian soldiers froze in the Donetsk region, hoping the Ukrainian drone operator wouldn't notice them. Excellent double kill!

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In the Torets direction, the Russians are experiencing a spring escalation. Instead of small groups, the occupiers began sending tank-barrels filled with infantry, but the result did not change.
The enemy column was spotted by our aerial reconnaissance, who adjusted their artillery and drones. After that, the tanks were met by pilots of the RV units, the Unmanned Systems Battalion of the 28th Brigade, and the Phoenix UAV strike company.
Despite all the "defense", 2 tanks of the invaders were destroyed. 2 more began to flee, leaving their stormtroopers to their fate.
The landing party ran in panic. Some ended up in an open field, some hid in the bushes, and the most "lucky" managed to hide in burrows.
But they all ended up the same. BBpS, RV "Kurt&Company" and the artillerymen razed everyone to the ground.

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The occupiers continue to use the tactic of armored "barns" filled with infantry, but the 28th Motorized Rifle Brigade is actively opposing this.
When the next column began to be attacked by pilots of the RV, BBPS, “Kurt&Company” units of the 28th Brigade, as well as the “Phoenix” UAV strike company, the enemy began to urgently maneuver in smoke screens. But he overdid it a little, causing one tank to fall into a ditch and get stuck.
The infantry, once again left without equipment and scattered, began to call for help. But here too, they were met with failure - the "Kurt&Company" operators cut off the enemy drones' communication antennas. Some even tried to fight back with a "mavik", but to no avail.

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Video of the day. A well became a launch pad for a Russian occupier who wanted to be an astronaut as a child. Dreams come true in Ukraine - he saw Toretsk from a bird's eye view.
Note how gracefully the pilot of the 12th Azov Brigade avoided a collision with a flying body: it’s a shame to lose a drone shot down by an enemy corpse.
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Result of the Trump-Putin call:
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Putin rejects ceasefire, but agrees to a stop of long range attacks for 30 days.

That is all. The rest is "we will talk about it maybe". Russia continues to insist there can be no ceasefire unless provisions are taken to prevent Ukraine from rebuilding its forces during it.

Trump has cucked out once again.
 
Putin likely wants his refineries to not be hit again so is supporting a ceasefire on infrastructure and nothing about the frontline because lol.



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From Warmonitor:
Russia did not agree to Trump's proposal for an unconditional ceasefire, instead pointing to a “significant issues” about how it would be enforced.


Based on statements from WarMonitor on twitter it looks like Putin kept bringing up how the real problem was Ukraine had mobilized and was receiving aid. So guessing he's not changing his stance on being against a peace deal unless Ukraine is completely disarmed and Trump is probably not going to try doing anything to pressure Putin into a peace deal.

Edit: Trump did accomplish talks of having Russian and American hockey teams playing against each other. So can't be said Trump accomplished nothing today.
 
Putin likely wants his refineries to not be hit again so is supporting a ceasefire on infrastructure and nothing about the frontline because lol.



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From Warmonitor:



Based on statements from WarMonitor on twitter it looks like Putin kept bringing up how the real problem was Ukraine had mobilized and was receiving aid. So guessing he's not changing his stance on being against a peace deal unless Ukraine is completely disarmed and Trump is probably not going to try doing anything to pressure Putin into a peace deal.
I think Putin is misreading Trump... Zelensky bent the knee and gave Trump everything he wanted, so Trump is holding up his end of the deal (resumption of aid). Trump doesn't forsake deals just because another interested party really really wants him to, unless they offer something much better. What is Putin offering Trump here? Looks like basically nothing to me, certainly not something much better than what Zelensky agreed to. Read Trump's statement there, you don't even have to read it closely. Everything from him is contingent on the other guys agreeing to peace. Zelensky did so, albeit after having to take a spanking from Trump. Putin is going to have to agree to peace as well to get stuff from Trump, including Ukrainian concessions. I think Trump will be easier on the pushing of Putin, but I don't think he's going to just give stuff up without Putin meeting his price first. And that price is a ceasefire and negotiations to permanently end the current war
 
American side:
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Russian side: [machine translation]
Phone conversation with US President Donald Trump

The leaders continued a detailed and frank exchange of views on the situation around Ukraine. Vladimir Putin expressed his gratitude to Donald Trump for his commitment to promote the noble goal of ending hostilities and human losses.

Reaffirming his principled commitment to a peaceful resolution of the conflict, the Russian President said that he was ready to work together with his American partners on a thorough examination of possible ways of a settlement, which should be comprehensive, sustainable and long-term. And, of course, to take into account the unconditional need to eliminate the root causes of the crisis and Russia's legitimate security interests.

In the context of the initiative of the President of the United States of America to introduce a 30-day ceasefire, the Russian side has outlined a number of essential points concerning effective control over a possible ceasefire along the entire line of contact, the need to halt forced mobilization in Ukraine and the rearmament of the Ukrainian armed forces. The serious risks associated with the lack of commitment on the part of the Kyiv regime, which has already repeatedly sabotaged and violated the agreements reached, have also been noted. Attention has been drawn to the barbaric terrorist crimes committed by Ukrainian militants against the civilian population of the Kursk region.

It was emphasized that the key condition for preventing the escalation of the conflict and working towards its resolution through political and diplomatic means should be the complete cessation of foreign military aid and the provision of intelligence information to Kyiv.

In connection with Donald Trump's recent appeal to preserve the lives of Ukrainian servicemen surrounded in Kursk region, Vladimir Putin confirmed that the Russian side is ready to be guided by humanitarian considerations and in case of surrender guarantees the life and dignified treatment of AFU soldiers in accordance with Russian laws and international law.

During the conversation, Donald Trump put forward a proposal on mutual refusal of the parties to the conflict from strikes on energy infrastructure facilities for 30 days. Vladimir Putin responded positively to this initiative and immediately gave the Russian military a corresponding command.

The Russian President also reacted constructively to Donald Trump's idea of implementing the well-known initiative concerning the safety of navigation in the waters of the Black Sea. It was agreed to start negotiations for further elaboration of specific details of such an agreement.

Vladimir Putin informed that on March 19, 175 to 175 prisoners would be exchanged between the Russian and Ukrainian sides. In addition, 23 severely wounded Ukrainian servicemen who are undergoing treatment in Russian medical institutions will be handed over as a goodwill gesture.

The leaders reaffirmed their intention to continue efforts to achieve a Ukrainian settlement bilaterally, including taking into account the above-mentioned proposals of the US President. Russian and American expert groups are being set up for this purpose.

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump touched upon other issues on the international agenda, including the situation in the Middle East and the Red Sea region. Joint efforts will be made to stabilize the situation in crisis points, establish cooperation on nuclear non-proliferation and global security. This, in turn, will contribute to improving the overall atmosphere of U.S.-Russian relations. One positive example is the solidarity vote in the United Nations on the resolution on the Ukrainian conflict.

A mutual interest was expressed in the normalization of bilateral relations in light of the special responsibility of Russia and the United States for ensuring security and stability in the world. In this context, a wide range of areas where our countries could establish interaction was considered. A number of ideas were discussed, going in the direction of developing mutually beneficial cooperation in the economy and energy in the future.

Donald Trump supported Vladimir Putin's idea to organize hockey matches in the United States and Russia between Russian and American players playing in the NHL and KHL.

The presidents agreed to stay in contact on all the issues raised.
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Ice hockey was discussed. The prisoner exchange is nothing, these happen regularly anyway.


In connection with Donald Trump's recent appeal to preserve the lives of Ukrainian servicemen surrounded in Kursk region, Vladimir Putin confirmed that the Russian side is ready to be guided by humanitarian considerations and in case of surrender guarantees the life and dignified treatment of AFU soldiers in accordance with Russian laws and international law.
Still the imaginary encircled troops.
Here's a video of Russians executing Ukrainian POWs in Kursk. Putin and other Russian politicians personally endorse this behaviour. Russians do it systematically and there are never any consequences for the perpetrators.
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On March 11, the Telegram channel “Diary of the Aurors” published a photo of four Ukrainian soldiers, likely captured in the Kursk region during the Russian counteroffensive in the Sudzhansky district.

Later, on the evening of March 12, a video of five Ukrainian soldiers killed in Kazachya Loknya appeared in the Telegram channel of the Akhmat special forces drone operator, Moisey | BA | SpN | RF Ministry of Defense. According to the description of the video, all of them are Ukrainian Armed Forces drone operators.
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The Russians also prosecute Ukrainian POWs for made up charges in kangaroo courts and sentence them to time in Russian prisons.
 
I think Putin is misreading Trump... Zelensky bent the knee and gave Trump everything he wanted, so Trump is holding up his end of the deal (resumption of aid). Trump doesn't forsake deals just because another interested party really really wants him to, unless they offer something much better. What is Putin offering Trump here? Looks like basically nothing to me, certainly not something much better than what Zelensky agreed to. Read Trump's statement there, you don't even have to read it closely. Everything from him is contingent on the other guys agreeing to peace. Zelensky did so, albeit after having to take a spanking from Trump. Putin is going to have to agree to peace as well to get stuff from Trump, including Ukrainian concessions. I think Trump will be easier on the pushing of Putin, but I don't think he's going to just give stuff up without Putin meeting his price first. And that price is a ceasefire and negotiations to permanently end the current war
Given how soft Trump has been on Russia it's more likely he'll treat this as a momentous first step towards total peace having Russia's oil refineries treated as off limits. He also won't dare do any of the increased sanctions or anything regarding the vague threats he's made if Russia disagreed to the ceasefire as he's done today.

Regarding Zelensky, there's no sign he really bent the knee on anything the way Trump had wanted. He continued wanting a security guarantee against Trump's wishes and continued agreeing to a mineral deal that Trump then began refusing to allow to be signed.

Maybe I'll be wrong and Trump will start really tightening the grip on Putin to force him to agree to a ceasefire, but I really doubt it.
 
Maybe I'll be wrong and Trump will start really tightening the grip on Putin to force him to agree to a ceasefire, but I really doubt it.
Did you see that the American statement is subservient to the Russians once again? It just barely falls short of blaming Ukraine for the conflict.
"Conflict should never have started", "should have been ended with good faith peace talks", "Ukraine wasted so much blood and money on this war instead of spending it on its people".
The Russian readout is filled with Russo-American friendship and cooperation.


I think the introduction of the wider global situation offers a way for Russia to sign some worthless treaties of friendship about this or that global issue while Trump gives Russia real material economic and military concessions.
Trump is clearly to stupid to understand Putin and the Russian position, but too arrogant to see that, and completely clueless about the realities on the ground, so it's easy for Putin to manipulate him.

On the other hand, Trump personally dislikes Zelenskyy, because he is feeding on Russian propaganda 24/7, as everyone in MAGA is a full on vatnigger.

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Putin rejects ceasefire, but agrees to a stop of long range attacks for 30 days.
Putin likely wants his refineries to not be hit again so is supporting a ceasefire on infrastructure and nothing about the frontline because lol.
Maybe I'm seeing this with a glass half full view, but it's a start; Trump hasn't given anything away but Putin has; Russia's advantage in being able to regularly chimpout with drones and missiles against Ukraine's infrastructure, plunging the country into darkness and the cold by knocking out its electric grid and oil depots. Ukraine is able to ACK Russia's refineries and oil depots and BLYAT the odd ammo depot or even a Black Sea ship or two, but it's ultimately an asymmetrical effort.

See March 7, 2025, for just one of the near daily zigzog chimpouts:
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If anything, Putin has exposed Russia's fear towards the economic damage caused by Ukraine's precise, long-ranged strikes; Western non-military aid provides generators for Ukraine in a way Russia hasn't from its dearest allies.
 
I think the introduction of the wider global situation offers a way for Russia to sign some worthless treaties of friendship about this or that global issue while Trump gives Russia real material economic and military concessions.
Trump is clearly to stupid to understand Putin and the Russian position, but too arrogant to see that, and completely clueless about the realities on the ground, so it's easy for Putin to manipulate him.
I don't think Trump can get away with giving real concessions to Russia without getting a ton of grief from his own party. There have been enough complaints already that it seemed to get aid resumed to Ukraine.

Part of what has occurred at Republican town halls, that congressmen are now wanting to avoid doing, is criticism about Republicans' stance on Ukraine (along with everything else). They'd have people outright stating they have blood on their hands if Trump tried giving meaningful concessions to Russia without even getting a ceasefire.

Edit: For instance Chuck Edwards was a popular one as far as videos of townhalls. Pretty much all Republican congressmen are having to field these questions about Ukraine and DOGE and so on all the time at these town halls which makes them look like assholes. Politically awful situation for them, which would only be worsened if Trump gave concessions to Russia.

 
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Given how soft Trump has been on Russia it's more likely he'll treat this as a momentous first step towards total peace having Russia's oil refineries treated as off limits. He also won't dare do any of the increased sanctions or anything regarding the vague threats he's made if Russia disagreed to the ceasefire as he's done today.

Regarding Zelensky, there's no sign he really bent the knee on anything the way Trump had wanted. He continued wanting a security guarantee against Trump's wishes and continued agreeing to a mineral deal that Trump then began refusing to allow to be signed.

Maybe I'll be wrong and Trump will start really tightening the grip on Putin to force him to agree to a ceasefire, but I really doubt it.
I fail to see how Trump has been "soft" on Russia other than ordering an end to offensive hacking operations, the reality is Ukraine is receiving as much military and financial aid under Trump as it did under Biden which is why Putin is bitching about it. The actual policy of the administration in deeds not words has been indistinguishable from Biden's save that one thing I mentioned

I am kinda completely mystified at your assertion that Zelensky really didn't do anything Trump wanted, Trump wanted Ukraine to agree to a 30 day ceasefire and negotiations, Zelensky changed his policy and agreed to both. Trump immediately restarted financial and military aid. There haven't been any blow-ups about the mineral deal since Zelensky said he would sign it, Witkoff is negotiating the details

Putin is slowly moving in Trump's direction on a ceasefire, he has no reason to do that at all except in response to pressure, whether genuinely or to hedge his bets. It's going to take some tardwrangling, and yelling about more sanctions on Russia if it says no is an attempt at tardwrangling in Trump fashion at least. He always starts with bombastic threats and even backs some of them up, that's been his pattern anyway
 
I fail to see how Trump has been "soft" on Russia other than ordering an end to offensive hacking operations, the reality is Ukraine is receiving as much military and financial aid under Trump as it did under Biden which is why Putin is bitching about it. The actual policy of the administration in deeds not words has been indistinguishable from Biden's save that one thing I mentioned
Soft in the sense that he's not wanting to do something that would "tighten the grip" on Russia. Keeping up the status quo as set under Biden doesn't seem worth a pat on the back given the political pressure on him domestically to not just outright give in to Putin.
I am kinda completely mystified at your assertion that Zelensky really didn't do anything Trump wanted, Trump wanted Ukraine to agree to a 30 day ceasefire and negotiations, Zelensky changed his policy and agreed to both. Trump immediately restarted financial and military aid. There haven't been any blow-ups about the mineral deal since Zelensky said he would sign it, Witkoff is negotiating the details
If they wanted the mineral deal signed, they'd just let Zelensky sign it. They already had worked out the details which is why Zelensky had visited the White House to sign it. Further details could have been worked out as they went on.

Zelensky also wanted against negotiations, they've been involved because they wanted them. Trump never changed his mind about that. The argument from the Trump side was that Ukraine shouldn't want security guarantees for a permanent ceasefire to work, which people like Macron then had to pipe up to say makes perfect sense and that Russia shouldn't have a say in whether a sovereign nation allows peacekeepers within it.
 
Edit: For instance Chuck Edwards was a popular one as far as videos of townhalls. Pretty much all Republican congressmen are having to field these questions about Ukraine and DOGE and so on all the time at these town halls which makes them look like assholes. Politically awful situation for them, which would only be worsened if Trump gave concessions to Russia.

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Goodness, why are the good people of Asheville, North Carolina so invested in helping Ukraine?...
Pratt & Whitney’s World-Class North Carolina Turbine Airfoil Production Facility Nears Operational Capability
“Pratt & Whitney’s new Asheville facility is a cornerstone of our industrial transformation and a key investment that will support growing demand for GTF engine-powered aircraft and for the F135 engine, which powers the F-35 Lightning II,” said Shane Eddy, president, Pratt & Whitney.
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stop of long range attacks for 30 days.
Actually, only attacks on infrastructure and energy facilities, hence:
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the reality is Ukraine is receiving as much military and financial aid under Trump as it did under Biden
This is wrong.
Trump already temporarily cut off military aid (all of which authorized by Biden, none by Trump) to Ukraine for no good reason.
He also permanently cut off humanitarian aid to Ukraine, like medical aid, help for restoring energy infrastructure, food, and such.
He stopped various initiatives to investigate Russian crimes and sanctions-enforcement.
He voted with Russia in the UN, against all Western countries. He continuously lies about Ukraine and the EU, and attacks NATO, dividing the front Russia faces and weakening the West's position, another great gift to Russia. He appointed rabidly pro-Russian people to key intelligence positions, who help push Russian lies and undermine Western intelligence cooperation.

So far he has agreed to every Russian demand without asking anything in return, while the Russians have rejected every timid request, without suffering consequences.
When one of the last actual journalists he allows to ask him questions confront him with the Russian contempt for him, the dotard has no idea what they're talking about and gets mad at the person asking the question.

Nothing Ukraine does is ever good enough to overcome that deep-seated mindless animosity the Russians programmed him and his entire movement with, while nothing Russia does is ever bad enough to warrant any kind of pressure, let alone flexing muscles.

This is the absolute state of the US government.
Biden was 1000 times better than this circus of anti-American freaks.
 
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