RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

Ultraman Orb Dark said:
I'd say the issue is that we don't know a lot about Ozpin's past lives and what they did, so the truth about his history with Salem isn't as shocking as the show wants it to be.

Ozpin didn't even do anything that evil other than plowing Salem, yet everyone acts like he's a terrible person.
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V5 really fumbled the bag. As did much of the first draft writing.


Ultraman Orb Dark said:
Don't forget how Neo tagged along too for some reason.
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There’s no Roman without Neo. Unless there’s a character that needs added muscle.
 
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Ultraman Orb Dark said:
I'd say the issue is that we don't know a lot about Ozpin's past lives and what they did, so the truth about his history with Salem isn't as shocking as the show wants it to be.
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No the issue is that they are completely ignoring the horrific implications of an outside entity embedding its conscience onto your own and then slowly subsuming you completely, and they further fuck up by making Salem want to literally scour the planet free of all life which means that basically anything Oz does is justified since the stakes for failure is "total global extinction" and in the face of that is there really such a thing as "going too far" so long as any survivors can continue and rebuild?

You can't present Oz as "morally grey" in the face of Salem and her endgame. Oz should have just been the wise teacher who dies to set the students on their own so they can walk their own paths. That's a storytelling convention as old as time and it persists for a reason. Furthermore Salem either shouldn't exist at all because why the fuck would she need to? Or she should be the final season villain that all the heroes and villains need to team up to stop in the Epic Final Confrontation. The Grimm are an environmental hazard, they don't need nor do they benefit from having a leader. Also the Gods are retarded and reductive to the lore and I also hate the Maidens.
 
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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Furthermore Salem either shouldn't exist at all because why the fuck would she need to? Or she should be the final season villain that all the heroes and villains need to team up to stop in the Epic Final Confrontation.
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You know what’s funny? They were really trying to build that up if you ask me. That or they were trying to have Cinder be just as big of an adversary. The only reason they had Salem play a big part was because they were doing the “villain steps in to do things after minions fail” cliche.


Sleazy Car Salesman said:
No the issue is that they are completely ignoring the horrific implications of an outside entity embedding its conscience onto your own and then slowly subsuming you completely,
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ignoring the implications implies that CRWBY thought of the implications in the first place. Press X to doubt.
 
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Random Internet Person said:
ignoring the implications implies that CRWBY thought of the implications in the first place. Press X to doubt.
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We've had this exact conversation before in this thread and I really don't feel like rewriting it. But you're right.
Random Internet Person said:
You know what’s funny? They were really trying to build that up if you ask me. That or they were trying to have Cinder be just as big of an adversary. The only reason they had Salem play a big part was because they were doing the “villain steps in to do things after minions fail” cliche.
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Cinder very clearly was meant to be The Main Villain but something happened along the way where she just became a toady for a bigger villain ad it ruins both her and the Grimm.
 
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Ultraman Orb Dark said:
I'd say the issue is that we don't know a lot about Ozpin's past lives and what they did, so the truth about his history with Salem isn't as shocking as the show wants it to be.

Ozpin didn't even do anything that evil other than plowing Salem, yet everyone acts like he's a terrible person.
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The real issue is that the reveal might as well have been PowerPoint presentation with no real narrative context beyond "we need the characters to know this information now so our characters can have weird angst about it for honestly no sane logical reason".

A far better way would have been from both horses mouths. have Ozpin tell the tale first, except he tells the story in the most positive light possible for him. During a showdown with Salem (or one of her flunkies), they tell their side of it (revealing discrepancies between the two versions) and have that set the foundation for shaking up the teams faith in Oz. Then have the stupid magic genie tell the REAL story of what happened, leading to the blowout against Oz.

Its not hard to write this shit competently.
 
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Chilson said:
Its not hard to write this shit competently.
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You don't even need them to have friction with Oz prior to the genie.

"Salem is probably lying and she's evil, right? Of course her lackey is trying to fuck with us, we trust Oz!"

"Hmm, yes. Very good children (and Qrow). Thank you for having faith in me, remember that Salem is an evil liar and I am your friend."

"Mrs. Genie, what actually happened?"

"Yeah Oz is full of shit kiddos."

"WE TRUSTED YOU!!!"

Would make the blowout just that little bit more emotionally harmful.
 
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Chilson said:
The real issue is that the reveal might as well have been PowerPoint presentation with no real narrative context beyond "we need the characters to know this information now so our characters can have weird angst about it for honestly no sane logical reason".

A far better way would have been from both horses mouths. have Ozpin tell the tale first, except he tells the story in the most positive light possible for him. During a showdown with Salem (or one of her flunkies), they tell their side of it (revealing discrepancies between the two versions) and have that set the foundation for shaking up the teams faith in Oz. Then have the stupid magic genie tell the REAL story of what happened, leading to the blowout against Oz.

Its not hard to write this shit competently.
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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
You don't even need them to have friction with Oz prior to the genie.

"Salem is probably lying and she's evil, right? Of course her lackey is trying to fuck with us, we trust Oz!"

"Hmm, yes. Very good children (and Qrow). Thank you for having faith in me, remember that Salem is an evil liar and I am your friend."

"Mrs. Genie, what actually happened?"

"Yeah Oz is full of shit kiddos."

"WE TRUSTED YOU!!!"

Would make the blowout just that little bit more emotionally harmful.
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There’s still the part where Salem wants to eradicate all life on the planet by way of bringing about four relics to bring about the judgment of humanity in an attempt to achieve the sweet release of death.

Meaning that anything Ozpin does to stop Salem would ultimately have Ozpin be in the right and justified.
 
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Random Internet Person said:
There’s still the part where Salem wants to eradicate all life on the planet by way of bringing about four relics to bring about the judgment of humanity in an attempt to achieve the sweet release of death.

Meaning that anything Ozpin does to stop Salem would ultimately have Ozpin be in the right and justified.
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True, but I would have written it less as "Ozpin or the end of the world" and more "Ozpin might not be the one you want saving the world".

All I am trying to do is make "Ozpin being at the center of all this and everyone is kind of pissed about it" make sense and be entertaining. Because what we got was flat, boring and didn't make that much sense.
 
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Chilson said:
Might as well just make a new IP at that point...which is frankly the far more healthy thing to do than rewrite this garbage.
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It's why I don't bother reading rewrites or fixes anymore beyond maybe two paragraph at most, unless I think the poster is smart.

It's not just one or two things that are wrong. The apple is legit rotten to the core. All "fixes" you can think of will inevitably devolve to novella length fanfiction because there's no easy way to fix this mess. A reboot is the only real solution.

RWBY Uber fanboys are either delusional thinking Viz will keep bankrolling seasons that won't go anywhere forever. Or a final season/ movie that will magically close all lose ends. The later is not impossible, but way beyond their talent level to pull off effectively imho.
 
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I like Oz and Salem as characters and I could fix RWBY post-Volume 3.
 

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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Overrated.
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What, Soul Eater? What makes you say that?
Sleazy Car Salesman said:
The solution to this issue is simple:

GET RID OF OZPIN AND SALEM

Why replace a tumor with a different tumor?
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Because how else would Monty Oum be able to make his discount shonen anime/JRPG hybrid?

Chilson said:
Might as well just make a new IP at that point...which is frankly the far more healthy thing to do than rewrite this garbage.
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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
Congrats, you've come to the same conclusion we all have years ago.
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Eh, I’d still find rewrites fun if only to see what they change. Also, rewrites are easier than making an IP from scratch, even if it could be just as time consuming.
 
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Sleazy Car Salesman said:
I just don't really like it. Nothing in particular I just think it's kinda generic.
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Not a big fan of Soul Eater either, but I wouldn't call it generic. It has its own style and a moderately unusual plot/setting. The issue it does have though is wanting you to get invested in a combat-centric plot and then divorcing most plot progression from combat. It also focuses overmuch on insanity/darkness power and never actually develops an interesting power system or specific set of abilities for any particular character. It was fun when it was mostly comedy in the beginning but it doesn't stick the landing when it tries to change to a series story.
 
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