- Joined
- Aug 16, 2019
Tbh I don’t use grey as a primer because I can never tell if I applied it properly on the grey plastic model base
Warhammer 40k
- Thread starter Great Unclean Chris
- Start date
People priming almost exclusively in black, especially when the majority is going to be brighter colors or those that don't cover so well is something I never understood. There is one up-side to priming with black vs white and it's that if you miss something from below on a model, it's a shadow rather than a bright spot that stands out. Of course when you've made your life three times more difficult by using a black primer, I can see how that might be considered a positive if you've never bothered trying to prime in white or grey.
As other people have said, the primer color impacts the paint you're applying on top, and there's no reason to not make your life easier especially when painting a ton of infantry Painting ultramarines? Prime them blue, save yourself some work(there's other colors that can work as well but at least basic blue would usually be better than black). Painting imperial fists and not concerned with undertones and shit? Prime them yellow.
It's kind of amazing how many people just don't understand this. See it all the time with people complaining about primer, and if you watch their idea of shaking a rattlecan it's super half-assed.
Also this. Just because its dry doesn't mean it's finished curing. Hell, even regular acrylic paints themselves can be rubbed off easily when they seem dry. Personally with a rattlecan or airbrush primer, I generally wait a couple of days before messing with them. I wouldn't know if painting over primer before it's fully cured can keep the primer from curing long term, but having fought with primer due to not leaving it long enough, it just seems safer to let it sit and never have to worry about it.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2021
They're also openly paying for ads in videos now. Saw an auspex tactics video the other day sponsored by them. That's not to say that paying for ads is a bad thing when producing a product, but I'd say it likely confirms the astro-turfing that was previously suspected.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2023
Arch wins again after all.
I really don't see how priming in black makes your life that much more difficult other than missing out on color matching. Unless you're doing contrast paints, two thin layers of base paint is opaque and wont show anything underneath it anyways. My biggest consideration personally is being able to spray what isn't possible to reach with a brush. My Crisis Suits for instance are maybe 1/3 black but on all the joints, vents, and anything that isn't strictly armor plating. Slapping some blue on big flat panels is easier than trying to reach between the legs, the arms, the shoulders, or the neck, and trying to neatly apply black. It's going to get messed up and I'll have to touch it up with the primary color anyways so I don't bother. The only way I could see it being easier to paint is to leave the model in so many sub-assembled parts that I'd just be moving the problem from the painting stage to assembly. For this same reason I'm probably going to pick up a spray can of lead belcher for my Necrons. I want the robotics to be a shiny silver, and the paneling to be a blue/black. Looking at them I don't see how I could possibly reach around all the little details that cross over each other to paint it instead of spraying it.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
Ok, there's a few things to go through with this including some semi-heavy paint sperging:
Even Duncan Rhodes has "admitted" and two thin coats is a starting point, to at least keep people from just glopping paint onto a mini. Some paints can do it in 2, some need more. Just like some paints you need to thin more than others depending on how you're applying them.
if you can't get to parts of a mini with a brush, that's what sub-assemblies are for.
Most paint pigments are not opaque.
Here's a chart for Golden SoFlat Matte
Here it is for their heavy body acrylics
And Golden has photos of the swatches rather than just a hex code digital equivalent for the paint. You can find the same opacity issues from Liquitex's charts as well(at least they have their swatches on the shelf in store like Golden) https://www.liquitex.com/pages/guides-project-sheets-color-charts
Here's a site where you can look up those CI codes for pigments and get more information about them
All of those pigment codes? PY74, PB36, PBK7, etc? Those are referring to the actual pigments themselves. They're the same pigments, or combinations of pigments that the miniature paint brands(Citadel, Vallejo, AK, etc.) are using(with notable exceptions of things like YInMn blue, there's a reason that costs 10x as much as a normal tube of paint) with the maximum pigment loading(this is why some paint colors from artist paint brands cost more with the "series" thing) and least amount of additives possible(ie, crap like chalk, with oil paints it's usually waxes) if you're avoiding the "student" lines of paints(this is also why the $1/bottle craft paints are generally shit). Opacity of miniature acrylic paints is a good trait in contrast/speed paints yes, but it's also an issue for normal base coating paints. Apparently you've never seen the usual disaster that occurs when someone tries to paint a space marine yellow from black, or even yellow hazard stripes on top of black. This also affects a lot of blues, even some whites, and some reds. There's also some silly shenanigans where companies even put a little black pigment into white paint so they can do things like use a zinc white instead of a titanium white(and even that's not going to just immediately cover over black properly). There are some pigments that are opaque(the color index site I mentioned earlier lists a lot of them) but aren't actually produced anymore due to production or demand issues, or were incredibly toxic due to containing crap like Antimony, Arsenic, Lead, Mercury, Cadmium, Chromium oxides, etc. and if not already banned, would definitely get banned(not in shitholes like China of course) if someone bothered trying to produce them again for normal retail sale.
This is also one of the reasons "artist colors" like Kimera got popular, promoting their brands of paint as being single pigment because they're a step closer to properly labeling the paint and can avoid unwanted colors happening when mixing what you thought was a red and blue but for some reason the red had some green in to tweak the hue out of the bottle type shit.
Generally with miniature paint brands, you can eventually figure this out by how well the paint actually works with experience, but it's crap that these companies could and should just be printing on the damned bottle because they know these things internally already anyway. Even Army Painter with their Fanatic line showed off painting a single brush stroke of yellow across a black base, I've got those paints and that's bullshit without using an un-thinned and glopped on physically thick coat of it.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
I swear every single thing I see from the creators and media makes me loathe it, which is a shame because I love the concept and art/minis
If you check the twitter link and scroll up there's another funny bit.
The developers of this have been very up front about the whole hell portal opening in Jerusalem thing. Yet somehow still has morons in their community too fucking stupid to have not understood what that means geographically until they got an official map to look at, at which point they lost their shit.
daniel day
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2021
The general point is that black:
A: can reduce saturation in especially thin/bad coverage colors
B: is unusable with contrast/speed paints
C: makes highlighting and adding light values on a model just fundamentally harder. Going from dark - light is standard practice, but dark gray is a more middling point that better serves a normal lighting position compared to pure black. Shadows can mute colors, but theyre rarely black.
D: similarly to A, but it can affect the colors of certain paints. Painting hot pink, bright yellow, or white over a black undercoat is a fools errand and WILL look like shit. There are no amount of coats that will make those particular paints completely opaque. Even highlights with super bright colors is a pain in the ass.
On the flip side, black primer is very useful if youre:
Doing a Grimdark/very dark style of painting with very dark values, and for newer painters to hide mistakes with little effort. Or if your primary color for the model is already black. (Notable are Drukhari or Raven guard. Even then, if possible, a very dark blue might serve you better if you want especially cool tones)
Using black primer strikes me as the same kind of habit that sees newer painters dunking a model in Nuln Oil, while more experienced painters will use it as a selective shade to darken recesses without desaturating the base coat/whatever its covering. Intent vs ease of us. Theres nothing wrong with either, necessarily, its just something to be aware of.
Purple fur Pomeranian
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2023
Yes, and lost like 80% of their social media following in the process.
Sunflower Samurai
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Yes they did, shameless plug, i did a little update a couple days ago
Lightning's Heraldry
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2019
Well I am back from Adepticon! Had a lot of fun hanging with friends and made lots of new friends too.
Truth is I couldn't give less of a fuck about it, it's rules are too simple for me to want to actually play it compared to the billion+++ other simple skirmish games out there where in those I may not actually get a mid session proselytization from someone who went off their SSRIs for too long and has now decided my particular facial expression is a microaggression against them resulting in me being stabbed repeatedly. If you harbor a sycophant community of mentally unstable and visibly violent retards then I am not interested in whatever the fuck you are offering even if I may have otherwise enjoyed it. This is particularly true when, again, there are half a million skirmish games out there with nigh identical rules.
Thanks, I can just play Frostgrave and not have to suffer the nearby existence (much less play against) one of these asylum escapees.
Great respect for seeing someone else also taking up the cause of weaning hobbyists off the hobby tax and distribution of information on how pigments themselves actually work. Even if most hobbyists don't want to move to enamels and oils even just real artists acrylics is a huge step up.
I was signed up for a certain grimdark specialist game (not detailing too much because tbh I do not want to be tied IRL to my farms for obvious reasons) and was actually asked why I wasn't interested or attending any TC stuff since my painting style is easy to recognize and "in line" with much of that kind of thing.
Truth is I couldn't give less of a fuck about it, it's rules are too simple for me to want to actually play it compared to the billion+++ other simple skirmish games out there where in those I may not actually get a mid session proselytization from someone who went off their SSRIs for too long and has now decided my particular facial expression is a microaggression against them resulting in me being stabbed repeatedly. If you harbor a sycophant community of mentally unstable and visibly violent retards then I am not interested in whatever the fuck you are offering even if I may have otherwise enjoyed it. This is particularly true when, again, there are half a million skirmish games out there with nigh identical rules.
Thanks, I can just play Frostgrave and not have to suffer the nearby existence (much less play against) one of these asylum escapees.
Modern cadmiums/chromiums are really not nearly as toxic as the old stuff though and this is especially true for the tiny amounts we use for minis. Do not mistake me as permitting brush lickers to be allowed anything but finger paints and crayons.
Great respect for seeing someone else also taking up the cause of weaning hobbyists off the hobby tax and distribution of information on how pigments themselves actually work. Even if most hobbyists don't want to move to enamels and oils even just real artists acrylics is a huge step up.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2019
They had a few Twitter accounts go “Wow look at this” because they liked the aesthetics and they took it as a personal attack when they went viral just from that alone. I don’t know what they expect. The rules are shallow, not really “trenches” style and they cannot read a room for their lives because
Their own audience they wanted keeps calling them out for being Eurocentric. In a crusades game.If you check the twitter link and scroll up there's another funny bit.
I have my issues with them as a half sprung games concept without zero idea about lore building and half asses rules and skirmish concepts, but continuing to build off that “woke” concept is a killer for them. Complaints about it being xenophobic for a Europe map. Complaints about how including Aztecs is xenophobic. Etc etc. it’s like trench crusade zeroed down in wanting a community of people who just aren’t happy while trying to build a brand. How do you fuck up this badly.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2023
It really is just contemporary Mordheim, which isn't a bad thing but the game is trendy, forgettable slop that will be held up by a few diehards. With all the shooting in the game it benefits from a crowded, ideally urban table. It really is a shame, years and years of build up totally nuked by hot headed social media managers and the original discord mods.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
I've seen a number of YouTubers mention Army Painter dropper bottles bursting when squeezed too hard. This is not the paint clogging the dropper, but the mixing balls getting stuck. Simply giving the bottle a gentle shake, or using the bottle at a 45 degree angle, will prevent this.
At least in that case it's an easy mistake to make.
I saw one video where some paint company the pigment had separated so much they had to mash it with a stick to get it to mix properly. I'm guessing it was sat on a shelf for years.
Another problem with "prime it black" is the main reason for doing it (to leave dark recesses) is undone by thinned paints, and can be achieved much easier with washes.
Northstar Military Figures. Makers of Stargrave and Frostgrave. I simp for them because I like their kits and, like Wargames Atlantic, they are very cheap and provide lots of kitbash potential.
The "cyborg" kit I think would make a good servitor proxy.
One conversion I've seen a bunch online is to combine Frostgrave Demons with sci-fi weapons of choice to make a beastman or abhuman guard army. Or combining Frostgrave Cultists with sci-fi guns for chaos cultists.
There's also a problem that can occur in transit where if the acrylic paint has simply frozen it can basically destroy the paint. Kinda like if you freeze a bottle of booze, the water will freeze and force the alcohol to one side(also known as freeze distillation) but with paint it can get so messed up in one freeze/thaw cycle you'll never get it mixed back up(also assumes the medium itself didn't start to polymerize). Goobertown did a video on it recently(as much of a creepy faggot as he is, he does occasionally post interesting videos) where one of the paints he tried it with was basically dead after the first one, and some didn't have an issue at all. It's probably not color specific so much as it is formulation specific as I've run into this with some paints over the years.
This is true, but they also don't have the same opacity as their original formulations(especially regarding cadmium there's cadmium free substitutes used by paint manufacturers now). Additionally not every version of cobalt or chromium oxide is as toxic as the stuff sold up through the 50s and even 80s either. But also because new pigments have come into use over time like bismuth yellow, and YInMn blue will eventually come down in cost and replace things. But some of the "good stuff" even in the form used as a pigment was absolutely toxic as fuck(there's some artsy fartsy youtube channels these days that go over some of them like this one https://www.youtube.com/@bekahart/videos and their shorts page).
That said, there's other problems with licking brushes even for pigments that aren't just heavy metals. You've got flow improvers, pH balancers, biocides, etc. in paint even though it's "non-toxic" it's still not meant to be ingested. An example of this would be if you look at a Citadel paint pot on the back of the label in incredibly tiny fucking text you'll see CMIT/MIT(I don't believe it's on the washes and contrast paints) and that's a warning that it contains ChloroMethylIsoThiazolinone and MethylIsoThiazolinone to keep mold and bacteria from growing in the paint pots. There was a very early run of citadel technical paints I recall being discussed ages ago (mordant earth and shit like that) which didn't have them and they turned rancid on people in transit(which is a different potential toxicity problem).
So yes, stop licking brushes people.
Fuck cheap enamels(apparently Testors is finally done, but there's still so much inventory sitting around... that's a different topic), but that said the various laquer based paints people have used for scale miniatures for years(tanks, planes, gundams, etc.) and oils are simply more tools for the miniature painting toolbox.
And yes, I like spreading knowledge about other shit that can be used, because why the hell not. I don't make money off of some mini painting company selling an overpriced teaspoon of paint. I'd rather see people learn, improve over time, and see the results. Then there's also other shit like most people relying on the basic color wheel... that's actually been obsolete for the past 80 or so years with the Munsell system doing a better job(it represents color in a 3d space using hue, value, and chroma to define them) and gets used by pigment and paint companies, and so on(it also does a better job of predicting the mixing of single pigment paints, but it isn't as simple and requires math to do but there's tools for that if you actually want to get that deep into it, then there's digital color spaces for monitors, TVs, it keeps on going).
Apparently they announced a couple weeks back that they hired Jervis Johnson to write rules for a new faction, and people cheered. I see it as the team not being creative enough to figure out interesting rules. Not to disparage Johnson, Chambers, etc. but when I see their names attached to projects these days I see it as one of three things:
- They're getting paid out the ass as consultants. Great for them, potentially dumb for your business
- They aren't actually doing anything and are just being used for marketing(again, good for them getting paid)
- You're getting their leftover notes from 20 years ago that they couldn't sell to someone else previously(which again, good for them getting paid for not having to do much work)
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2019
I did check some of the TC rules out of curiosity and when I saw their own take on Crusade, well it wasnt all super different, but wont lie some of the stuff for relics did give a more heavy 40k vibe.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2019
Do you guys prefer that 40k is 40,000 years in the future of Warhammer Fantasy, and that all the races evolved technologically over the years and ascended to the stars, and that the greenskins yelling WAAAAGH for 40,000 years manifested it as a psychic force?
Or do you prefer that Fantasy is just one of the inhabited planets within Imperial space that never evolved technologically?
Or do you prefer that Fantasy is just one of the inhabited planets within Imperial space that never evolved technologically?