Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

Derrick said:
For some context the letter was composed between 111 and 113 AD, so roughly 78-80 years after the crucifixion (roughly the distance between us today and the end of WWII), as such it is possible that there may have still been a few people alive on Earth who personally knew Jesus as teenagers when this was written.
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As I follow up to this post, I've recent discovered more concrete proof that there were indeed witnesses of Jesus's life and miracles as late as 124 AD.

Writing an apology to Emporer Hadrian's during his to Athens in 124/125 AD Quadratus of Athens (who later starved to death while imprisoned) recorded that there were still witnesses to Jesus's miracles alive even then, which while remarkable is certainly not impossible. Jesus died in 33 AD and if you were, say five or six then, you'd only be 97 or 98 in 124 AD, certainly an old age for antiquity but not impossible. Writing around 150 AD the Greek chronicler, Phlegon of Tralles, wrote a list of Roman citizens over the age of 100 he got from census records called, On Long Lived Persons, so there were defiantly people reaching 100 back then. Here's the full quote from Quadratus.
"But the works of our Saviour were always present, for they were genuine:—those that were healed, and those that were raised from the dead, who were seen not only when they were healed and when they were raised, but were also always present; and not merely while the Saviour was on earth, but also after his death, they were alive for quite a while, so that some of them lived even to our day"

This brings up an interesting question, who was the final witness to Jesus living on Earth/when did they die? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of Church history will be answer that, if the information has been preserved.
 
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The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 90 - It is the possibility of saying 'no' which gives so much charm to the heart when it says 'yes.' A victory may be celebrated only on those fields in which a battle may be lost. Hence, in the divine order of things, God made a world in which a man and woman would rise to moral heights, not by that blind driving power which makes the sun rise each morning, but rather by the exercise of that freedom in which one may fight the good fight and enjoy the reward of victory-for no one shall be crowned unless he has struggled.
 
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Article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...il-injunction-christian-street-preachers-ban/

While I do not mean to relitigate a dead topic, nor do I wish to not show humility by taking a victory lap, I find it interesting that just a few months ago many in this thread told me the ongoing demographic taking of Western Europe from Atheists by Muslims was bad because the new Islamic Majorities might try to past 'anti-proselytization laws' preventing us from spreading our faith. Now only a couple months later it looks like the local secular Governments have gone ahead and passed these anti-evangelization laws I was warned about, at least in this town in Britain they have. (remember spreading the Gospel is something we're required to do; Matthew 28:19-20).


Regardless of all of this I'm going to pray for our Christian brothers in Britain, and I ask everyone in this thread to pray for them to see relief from the ongoing harassment they are facing from their Government, the same Government which is now sentencing them for silently praying in the wrong spot. I would offer some words of encourage to them but given recent events I doubt they'll be able to read it on here.
 

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The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 91 - Our blessed Lord was hopeful about humanity. He always saw men the way He originally designed them. He saw through the surface, grime, and dirt, to the real man underneath. He never identified a person with sin. He saw sin as something alien and foreign which did not belong to man. Sin had mastered man but he could be freed from it to be his real self. Just as every mother sees her own image and likeness on her child's face, so God always saw the divine image and likeness beneath us.
 
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I was reading an old book from the 1780s containing the complete writings of Nathaniel Lardner regarding the historicity of Jesus and old non-Christian documents related to Jesus. 95% of what he wrote about was stuff already known, Tactius, Suetonius, Pliny, basically what I'm sure you've all read before. However about 200 pages in I came across something that peaked my interest, something I hadn't read before I wanted to share.
monument text 1.pngmonument text 2.png

I was of course immediately intrigued by this. I'm sure you're all aware of the persecution of Christians under Nero, first mention by Tacitus in about 115 AD, however this inscription, assuming "New Superstition" refers to Christianity, would not only be more contemporary evidence for this event, but would also tell us that A) Christianity has stretched as far as Portugal by 64 AD and B) Nero's persecution extended beyond just Rome but to the whole empire. Searching some of his footnotes online lead brought up nothing, however searching the inscription online I was able to find an older source, from Edmund Burton written in 1624
"
NERONI. CL. CAIS. AVG. PONT. MAX.
OB. PROVINC. LATRONIB. ET. HIS. QVI. NOVAM. GENERI. HVM. SVPER∣STITION. INCVLCAB.
PVRGATAM.
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"This moniment is doubly glorious to the Saincts of that age, because it both couples robbers, and them together (for vniust contu∣melie encreaseth dignitie) and because of the eui∣dence which it giues of a more then particular agon. Most happy, O, and most heauenly soules, whom diuine election marshal'd in the front of that battle, and the like grace enabled to reach to the garlands which shall neuer vade, and to weare them trium∣phant in glory, the starres themselues farre vnder. It could bee no ordinarie goodnesse (saith acute TERTVLLIAN) which NERO condemned, and we glory on behalfe of our sufferings, that they had such a dedicator as he. This was the first great Per∣secution, which like a blast did spread the religion it blew. No excellencie hath foundation in delica∣cie, whatsoeuer is soft and tender, neuer attaines to depth, or diuturnitie. Rough, and manly are the onely fit beginnings of things ordained to endure. The originall power of rhe ROMANS had no o∣ther soueraigne properties but these: for such was their founder, ROMVLVS."
I then spent much longer than I care to admit trying to track down this monument to it's source. Eventually, and I'll spare you the details, I was able to determine that the inscription was discovered by Cyriac of Ancona during his travels in the 1440s. Cyriac was what one might think of as the first Archeologist in the modern sense of the word. He traveled around describing old landmarks and recording inscription. Since seemingly nobody cared about this stuff back then he is our only source for thousands of inscriptions, many of the things he saw being later pillaged or destroyed, this was something he himself was keenly aware of, writing about this when visiting a site he had previous visited fourteen years prior.
"But alas! How unsightly a structure we returned to, compared to the one we inspected fourteen years ago! For then we saw thirty-one surviving columns standing erect, whereas now I find that [only] twenty-nine columns remain, some shorn of their architraves… . ruined and dashed to the ground, evidently by the barbarians. On the other hand, those exceptional glorious marble figures of the gods on [the temple’s] outstanding, wondrous façade, remain unharmed in their nearly pristine glory, thanks to the protection of almighty Jove himself ….”

I've seen some people suggest it might have been a forgery, since Cyriac is our only physical witness to the inscription (Juan De Ferras) being the first in about 1700. However this seems unlikely to me since A) Cyriac of Ancona was a Humanist and therefor had no reason to forge a Christian inscription B) Cyriac struggled with Latin and had to pay somebody to help teach him. While he did eveutally get a grasp on the lanague he struggled with Grammar, therefor it seeemd unlikely he would have had the means to forge it C) This was one of thousands of inscriptions he was our only source on, it would be hundreds of years before anybody would bother checking out many of the artifacts he described, and while many were found many more were not. and D) Cyriac is postiviely regarded by modern scholars.


Regardless it's a really neat monument and I'd love to get your thoughts on it. Is it a genuinue reference to Nero's persecution or does "New Superstition" refer to something else? If so it would tell us that
A) Christianity had spread as far as Portugal by the 60s AD and
B) Nero's persecution of Christians was not just limited to Rome but was an Empire wide pogrom
 
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Any of y'all play around with LLMs and theology? I had a great chat with DeepSeek today about the use of specific words from Scripture in Greek philosophy, pragmatos and elegchos from Hebrews 11:1. I've found it a fascinating tool given the depths of its corpus.
 
Derrick said:
While I do not mean to relitigate a dead topic, nor do I wish to not show humility by taking a victory lap, I find it interesting that just a few months ago many in this thread told me the ongoing demographic taking of Western Europe from Atheists by Muslims was bad because the new Islamic Majorities might try to past 'anti-proselytization laws' preventing us from spreading our faith. Now only a couple months later it looks like the local secular Governments have gone ahead and passed these anti-evangelization laws I was warned about, at least in this town in Britain they have. (remember spreading the Gospel is something we're required to do; Matthew 28:19-20).
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I don't think that alone is a plausible reason to think that Muslims are a better choice. If anything, one of the problems of secular states nowadays is a mix of repression of Christianity and support of everything else, primarily Muslims and new age occult/Wicca. Notice that it's the UK, a country that has been struggling with Muslim immigrants for a while, with secular government favoring them over Christians. It wouldn't be the first time Christians are pushed aside in favor of Muslims in Europe, way far from it, they just aren't explicit about that anymore as they used to be around 10 years ago. I can't think of a specific example right now, but news about pushing something Christian out of schools, public places, stores, and elsewhere specifically because it "upsets" Muslim immigrants used to be stated in pretty much every article of that kind. As these populations grew, media started to gaslight general population more in that regard. The more people noticed that something is off about immigrants, the less honest media became about who and what exactly got imported.

Just to be clear, I'm fully aware of what atheism in general can lead to, I come from a place with communist history which included actual persecution, from forced psych wards to executions. The problem nowadays isn't that clear cut as just "any believer is better than non-believer/anti-believer", so no, Muslims aren't the better option. Especially considering that this, in our times and in the West, is often done in favor of Muslims. And again, they just merely ban street preachers, it's not the only way to spread gospel. And it's better than getting beheaded. Can't really evangelize when you're dead, especially in a world that deliberately suppresses news and facts on Christian oppression. This article didn't change my opinion at all. If anything, it fully goes in line with what I have been observing over years.
 
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Derrick said:
View attachment 7161360
Article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...il-injunction-christian-street-preachers-ban/

While I do not mean to relitigate a dead topic, nor do I wish to not show humility by taking a victory lap, I find it interesting that just a few months ago many in this thread told me the ongoing demographic taking of Western Europe from Atheists by Muslims was bad because the new Islamic Majorities might try to past 'anti-proselytization laws' preventing us from spreading our faith. Now only a couple months later it looks like the local secular Governments have gone ahead and passed these anti-evangelization laws I was warned about, at least in this town in Britain they have. (remember spreading the Gospel is something we're required to do; Matthew 28:19-20).


Regardless of all of this I'm going to pray for our Christian brothers in Britain, and I ask everyone in this thread to pray for them to see relief from the ongoing harassment they are facing from their Government, the same Government which is now sentencing them for silently praying in the wrong spot. I would offer some words of encourage to them but given recent events I doubt they'll be able to read it on here.
Click to expand...
This ties into something I’ve been thinking about for while, which is Part of the reason why the new atheism movement collapsed in on itself (not just because it had no centralized structure) is the same reason as to why it was pretty successful in its early days, people were tired of the Christian Evangelical movement which had no clear defining doctrine other than maintaining the status quo of Evangelical Christianity and maintaining the prestige it had gotten in the 80’s, the new atheism movement also failed because it had no clear goals and the people they were up against Christian’s/Evangelical movements were displaced, so what was the western world, raped of its bulwarks, up against now? People who are so hell bent on conquest and oppression that they would do anything towards that goal, Muslims.

It’s just a thought I’ve been having so I could be wrong
 
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BIG SHOT Autos said:
I don't think that alone is a plausible reason to think that Muslims are a better choice. If anything, one of the problems of secular states nowadays is a mix of repression of Christianity and support of everything else, primarily Muslims and new age occult/Wicca. Notice that it's the UK, a country that has been struggling with Muslim immigrants for a while, with secular government favoring them over Christians. It wouldn't be the first time Christians are pushed aside in favor of Muslims in Europe, way far from it, they just aren't explicit about that anymore as they used to be around 10 years ago. I can't think of a specific example right now, but news about pushing something Christian out of schools, public places, stores, and elsewhere specifically because it "upsets" Muslim immigrants used to be stated in pretty much every article of that kind. As these populations grew, media started to gaslight general population more in that regard. The more people noticed that something is off about immigrants, the less honest media became about who and what exactly got imported.

Just to be clear, I'm fully aware of what atheism in general can lead to, I come from a place with communist history which included actual persecution, from forced psych wards to executions. The problem nowadays isn't that clear cut as just "any believer is better than non-believer/anti-believer", so no, Muslims aren't the better option. Especially considering that this, in our times and in the West, is often done in favor of Muslims. And again, they just merely ban street preachers, it's not the only way to spread gospel. And it's better than getting beheaded. Can't really evangelize when you're dead, especially in a world that deliberately suppresses news and facts on Christian oppression. This article didn't change my opinion at all. If anything, it fully goes in line with what I have been observing over years.
Click to expand...
I often feel that one of the most emotionally resonant, if hand-wavy, arguments in support of Christianity is just how much the worst people in the world hate it specifically, above any other religion.
 
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