Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

indomitable snowman said:
To be fair, he did experience the 1950s more recently than anyone else on the station with his racism visions.
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Not only that, but he also dealt with discrimination when he and Bashir traveled to the year 2024.

Also, I'm just remembering this, but I'm picturing Sisko talking with Odo and learning about the adventure he and the Ferengi had at Roswell, and he's like "You too?"
XYZpdq Jr. said:
yeah as clunky as the idea of "Captain Black Guy is mad because there was racism a billion years ago" reads on paper it played out a lot better in practice than it really had any right to
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To be fair, it was always vague as to whether or not Sisko actually traveled back to the 50s or if it was just a Prophets-induced vision.

Even then, it still handled racism better that that one episode of Voyager did.
 
indomitable snowman said:
To be fair, he did experience the 1950s more recently than anyone else on the station with his racism visions.
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The racism visions were also dumb and should have never happened. Sisko had traditional nigerian memorabilia in his office, I always thought this implied that he had strong and personal cultural ties to his homeland that he carried with him everywhere he went to remind him where he came from.

By contrast, him being obsessed with african americans retroactively means that he's a yakub tier larper like modern day americans who go "Im irish" and hang clovers all over their appartment because that's about the same meaning the memorabillia in his office has for an african american.

It made his character go from a traditionalist chad to a rootless larper.
 
Oilspill Battery said:
The racism visions were also dumb and should have never happened. Sisko had traditional nigerian memorabilia in his office, I always thought this implied that he had strong and personal cultural ties to his homeland that he carried with him everywhere he went to remind him where he came from.

By contrast, him being obsessed with african americans retroactively means that he's a yakub tier larper like modern day americans who go "Im irish" and hang clovers all over their appartment because that's about the same meaning the memorabillia in his office has for an african american.

It made his character go from a traditionalist chad to a rootless larper.
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I was under the impression Sisko had the sorta vague pan-african mush as you might expect from the same Trek that gave us Chipotle and his "many moons ago, Elk and Buffalo rerouted the positron flux inverter through the warp matrix defagulator"
tbh random AFRICA! shit isn't really any more connected to him than some random schmuck in the 50s through some vague spirit journey to Clearly Different People From Famous Sci Fi Authors

In a world of PatStew's British accent saying Merde!, Hikaru Sulu with a name that literally can't exist in any single Asian language, Julian Basir: Champion Of Albion, and the general "lol wtf are you even on about" that the spare ethnic TOS crewmen gave Trelane it's pretty reasonable to just roll with Sisko being some vauge "uhh, africa?"
 
Probably a cross post from the RLM channel.

I had no idea movie 1 had that many different versions floating around out there. It was actually kind of interesting listening to the autists going over it all.
 
botrix_fan said:
Pan pipe music and a-cootchie-moya is the universal Star Trek sign to go make a sandwich.
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Remember the episode where we find out his Indian beliefs were really a cargo cult from delta quadrant aliens visiting earth?
Talk about being far from the bones of your ancestors.
 
Flexo said:
Probably a cross post from the RLM channel.

I had no idea movie 1 had that many different versions floating around out there. It was actually kind of interesting listening to the autists going over it all.
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Almost makes me wonder which version I pirated years ago... But then I'd have to watch the (slow) motion picture again.
 
The Orville was political, but Seth presented it the way classic Star Trek did at its best—respecting viewers enough to be adults and decide for themselves, without giving black-and-white answers. So while it leans liberal, it’s still done in that '90s way. The trans episodes, surprisingly, were cleverly nuanced enough that both conservatives and liberals could walk away satisfied. Liberals because it includes the “she decides if she’s a woman” idea, and conservatives because Topa was really a girl to begin with—so reversing the sex change was framed more like correcting a wrong.

His takes on religion, though, were definitely classic “woke Reddit atheist.” The punches weren’t subtle—it was straight-up “religion is something all civilizations outgrow.” Then names the Krill's god after a car rental service for a dumb joke. Even Trek, which could get pretty militantly atheist, still had interesting futuristic alien religions —like the Klingons and Sto-vo-kor, or the Bajorans and the Prophets.

But to be fair he did make the Krill more interesting later on. Though they definitively started as "christian fundies bad" allegory.

It’s not perfect, but I give Seth credit for trying to present thought-provoking dilemmas, rather than just doing NuTrek’s “modern politics good, strawman conservatives bad” thing. Both are liberal, sure, but how it's done makes all the difference.

While Seth definitely has a bias against religion—and other typical leftist biases come through—I do respect that he usually doesn’t resort to strawmen. He could have, especially considering how hard he goes in Family Guy when mocking the sides he disagrees with.
 
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Mystery Spy said:
The Orville was political, but Seth presented it the way classic Star Trek did at its best—respecting viewers enough to be adults and decide for themselves, without giving black-and-white answers. So while it leans liberal, it’s still done in that '90s way. The trans episodes, surprisingly, were cleverly nuanced enough that both conservatives and liberals could walk away satisfied. Liberals because it includes the “she decides if she’s a woman” idea, and conservatives because Topa was really a girl to begin with—so reversing the sex change was framed more like correcting a wrong.
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The fact that the "correct" opinion in the Orville as presented was, "trooning out children is morally wrong," (even if that was almost certainly accidental) and that the solution was to detransition her, will never not be based as fuck.

Also the Orville's sense of smug about atheism is nowhere near as insufferable as season 1 TNG.
 
Mystery Spy said:
The Orville was political, but Seth presented it the way classic Star Trek did at its best—respecting viewers enough to be adults and decide for themselves, without giving black-and-white answers. So while it leans liberal, it’s still done in that '90s way. The trans episodes, surprisingly, were cleverly nuanced enough that both conservatives and liberals could walk away satisfied. Liberals because it includes the “she decides if she’s a woman” idea, and conservatives because Topa was really a girl to begin with—so reversing the sex change was framed more like correcting a wrong.
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Something I liked about The Orville was how it handled the conflict with the Moclans outside of the trans allegory. It's established that Moclus is the primary weapons manufacturer of the Union, so they use that to boss the other members around whenever they disagree with their ideals. We don't get much political leverage like that too often in Star Trek.
Mystery Spy said:
His takes on religion, though, were definitely classic “woke Reddit atheist.” The punches weren’t subtle—it was straight-up “religion is something all civilizations outgrow.” Then names the Krill's god after a car rental service for a dumb joke. Even Trek, which could get pretty militantly atheist, still had interesting futuristic alien religions —like the Klingons and Sto-vo-kor, or the Bajorans and the Prophets.

But to be fair he did make the Krill more interesting later on. Though they definitively started as "christian fundies bad" allegory.

It’s not perfect, but I give Seth credit for trying to present thought-provoking dilemmas, rather than just doing NuTrek’s “modern politics good, strawman conservatives bad” thing. Both are liberal, sure, but how it's done makes all the difference.

While Seth definitely has a bias against religion—and other typical leftist biases come through—I do respect that he usually doesn’t resort to strawmen. He could have, especially considering how hard he goes in Family Guy when mocking the sides he disagrees with.
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I actually like the idea of the Krill's mission being sort of like the Crusades in space, but you make a good point there. I'm not even a religious person, and I don't get why science fiction shows always portray religious people as backwards hicks.
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
I was under the impression Sisko had the sorta vague pan-african mush as you might expect from the same Trek that gave us Chipotle and his "many moons ago, Elk and Buffalo rerouted the positron flux inverter through the warp matrix defagulator"
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It was common for upper middle class American blacks in the 90s to have some Africana décor in their homes. Masks, imagery of elephants or giraffes, a print of an elegantly dressed village woman. It's actually a rather dated element of the Sisko character, not a forerunner of wokeness.
 
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ToroidalBoat said:
Which series are "canon" or not now? Can't get a straight tl;dr answer out of Wikipedia or Memory Alpha and the Google search sucked.
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My dear Trekkie, they're all canon.

Even Kurtzman Trek?

Elim_Garak%2C_2375.webp

Especially Kurtzman Trek.
 
MagneticTowels said:
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You know, in Voyager, Paris was established to know a lot about 20th century Earth, and even created a Holodeck recreation of a movie theater. This means that Voyager's crew could have watched the Minecraft movie in the holo-theater.
ToroidalBoat said:
Which series are "canon" or not now? Can't get a straight tl;dr answer out of Wikipedia or Memory Alpha and the Google search sucked.
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Technically, all the shows and movies are in the same timeline. It's the three Abrams movies (Star Trek 2009, Into Darkness, and Beyond) that are set in their own continuity.

The issue is that a lot of the newer shows are prequels, so it's understandable to get confused over the timeline. If you want to go in the chronological order of events, it goes:

Enterprise -> Discovery Season 1 and 2 -> Strange New Worlds -> The Original Series -> The Animated Series -> The Next Generation -> Deep Space Nine -> Voyager -> Lower Decks -> Prodigy -> Picard -> Discovery Season 3, 4, and 5 -> Starfleet Academy
Mr. Racewar1488 said:
My dear Trekkie, they're all canon.

Even Kurtzman Trek?

View attachment 7218104
Especially Kurtzman Trek.
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Thanks for reading that in Garak's voice, brain. I owe you a root beer.
 
XYZpdq Jr. said:
AKSHUALLY if you're really doing chronological order you start ds9 partway through TNG and watch your stardates
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Sayer of the N-Word said:
It was common for upper middle class American blacks in the 90s to have some Africana décor in their homes. Masks, imagery of elephants or giraffes, a print of an elegantly dressed village woman. It's actually a rather dated element of the Sisko character, not a forerunner of wokeness.
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Well said. That’s the rub, isn’t it? Deep Space Nine doesn’t slot cleanly into two-party politics.
 
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