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Too based for the average Star Wars fan.
Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off
- Thread starter CowReserach Inc.
- Start date
LORD IMPERATOR
kiwifarms.net
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Going back to the matter at hand, with the news of GameCube games getting remastered on the Switch 2, we may see the Rogue Squadron Trilogy ported over there.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2019
What's everyone's predictions for the next series of Andor?
- It'll be as well made or better, but there might be more forced tieins.
- Luthen won't be a Jedi, but a Jedi child of his died due to Order 66.
- Syril will not be recognised by Andor, the obsession is all oneway.
- Maybe some prison survivors will be found amongst the rebels, but not Kino.
- Brasco and/or Bix get hurt or killed. (currently Cassian doesn't hate the Empire as much as he did in Rogue One)
Clyde Cash's Left Teste
kiwifarms.net
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LORD IMPERATOR
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 4, 2020
Star Wars was written by people who believe in morality, whereas 40K was written by people who don't believe in morality.
One was written by Christian perspective where the good guys are good, and even the bad guys have virtues (Palpatine values order like Sauron), whereas the other was written by godless Britbong fart-huffers who think the very idea of morals and values are a joke, so they have an evil Imperium faction that holds "morals" and "values" which cause them to commit mass genocide, and the other side is just madness for the sake of madness, be they Xeno or Chaos. That's why the Imperium is worse than the Empire; it's not designed logically, it's just designed in a way for Britbong fart-huffers to engage in their worst fantasies about the World Wars, the Black Legend and the Industrial Era.
In lore terms, the Star Wars Empire was written to be a believable faction where people naturally supported it after decades of chaos and decay. It provides ample job opportunities for people who would've been otherwise ignored, it rocks the boat and allows for men of ambition and talent to rise in power and replace the decadent Senatorial nobility, and it provides services and law enforcement to ensure order in society. And they cover up their evils well with a propaganda machine that justifies almost everything they do.
It's also reasonable why it's so powerful and how it fails; the security and enforcement organizations were already there near the end of the Republic, all the Empire did was 'roid them up to size. It's a civilization that came into being as the successor of a state that lasted a thousand generations, so there's all that science and technological advancement that the Empire inherited and improved.
And it fails because both the ruler and his top man died, and everyone else at the top fought each other for the right to seize the throne, destroying most of the Empire's army, which allows the Rebels and their New Republic to take the Empire's place. But it survives, because there's enough centralized leadership to ensure that it does.
Meanwhile, the Imperium is just every Britbong fart-huffer's opinion of the Spanish Inquisition and the Industrial Era, and the other factions are inspired by other books and movies, (which, unlike with Lucas, GW pretends that their stuff is wholly original) smashed together into a pastiche of how everything and everyone is shit, not just the Imperium. The Imperium has several shades of unreasonable madness, its enemies are their own shade of madness and stupidity, there are no good guys, and there's nothing redeemable about anyone. Even if the Imperium wins a great victory at the cost of millions or billions of lives, or if the forces of Xenos or Chaos deal the Imperium a heavy blow, Status Quo is God, and nothing will change from it. People inside and outside the Imperium will continue to live in shit and die in shit, and nothing they do can change that.
If you activated the Halo Array in the 40K galaxy, or used the Sith Emperor's ritual to destroy said galaxy, you're probably doing everyone in it a favor.
Logically, with all the Imperium's problems, it should've collapsed long ago; it just goes on because of writer fiat and because their figures sell the best. The way the lore is written, it's such a convoluted mess that Games Workshop just falls back on the whole "everything/nothing is canon, believe what you will" excuse that Dave Filoni started trodding out when his Bad Batch cartoon retconned Kanan Jarrus' backstory.
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- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
Not a great take on the 40k setting, but then I actually am a fan of both, even if both IP have infuriated me with their decisions. Let's go into details.
1. George did not intend for a Christian morality for Star Wars; he wanted something that could hit anyone. Redemption is not a sole creation of the Abrahamic theology, and it's older than that. The monomyth is old, and can be found in pretty much any culture out there due to how it appeals to us as a species. If anything he took it from a western Buddhist point of view, which is most evidenced by his disagreements and statements on what a balanced force was supposed to mean. This is especially the case when you migrate out of the OT films, which given his contributions to the universe you kind of do.
2. The Imperium in 40k was the product of 10,000 years of decay, after the death of its greatest luminaries and the disappearance of the rest, be it due to failings in will, madness, or other reasons. It is the result of a patch job and making the best of a bad situation by its creators, and in a way it shows an impressive stubborn will in humanity and the desire to last one more day to see a golden dawn that may never come. And despite all of its issues, it should be noted that in good portions of it, at least before the great Chasm that split the galaxy formed, that a good amount of worlds actually knew peace for generations. Democracy still exists on some worlds as well, since it was a binding agency that only expects a military tithe and basic tax load out before leaving the planets be.
3. The Empire has hitches when you staple in the prequels, since the Clone Wars only being three years long isn't really a great way to convey the exhaustion and disgust with the system. There were ten years between Naboo and Geonosis, and it wasn't used well as a structure. You have to dig into secondary books and lore to really see just how many decades of rot, foistered by the Sith and poor decisions made over centuries got the Empire to where it is. It's actually funny, since it's closer to the Imperium in this regard, being a state caused by decline. However it should be noted that again, one lasted in this slow rot, with brief bursts of hope, on scales that match the age of the Old Republic. The empire croaked with the death of just one guy and his apprentice, since it was never meant to last beyond him.
4. Compare the Empire's rapid failure in one generation to the Imperium. Its founder was rendered effectively dead. Over half of his greatest generals, heirs, and administrators died or went mad. His greatest friend and most intelligent normal man and administrator FUCKING DIED. A complete gutting of the admin happened, and guess what happened there. It rallied back, it revived itself, and it took millenia of poor decisions, actual monsters, and outside pressure from outside and within to even force it to buckle. There are good people in the Imperium, one of the most well known guys legitimately has a book series about him. Ciaphas Cain claims that he's simply a filthy coward and cheat, but you can easily see it as a case of him not believing in himself hard enough. Besides the Salamanders chapter of marines, who all willingly throw down their superhuman lives to save normal guys, there are those like the Lamenters, who do the same. And on top of that I personally find the casualty rates in this setting to be closer in scope to actual galactic war than Star Wars, given how hard it is to scale the numbers.
I like each of them for their own reasons. But I will note that my fondness for 40k differs with Star Wars in that I like the sandbox nature you get with the setting and the options to play. Different IP, genre, and style, different reasons. Star Wars does have the superior story simply due to having the main focus on that element of the setting.
1. George did not intend for a Christian morality for Star Wars; he wanted something that could hit anyone. Redemption is not a sole creation of the Abrahamic theology, and it's older than that. The monomyth is old, and can be found in pretty much any culture out there due to how it appeals to us as a species. If anything he took it from a western Buddhist point of view, which is most evidenced by his disagreements and statements on what a balanced force was supposed to mean. This is especially the case when you migrate out of the OT films, which given his contributions to the universe you kind of do.
2. The Imperium in 40k was the product of 10,000 years of decay, after the death of its greatest luminaries and the disappearance of the rest, be it due to failings in will, madness, or other reasons. It is the result of a patch job and making the best of a bad situation by its creators, and in a way it shows an impressive stubborn will in humanity and the desire to last one more day to see a golden dawn that may never come. And despite all of its issues, it should be noted that in good portions of it, at least before the great Chasm that split the galaxy formed, that a good amount of worlds actually knew peace for generations. Democracy still exists on some worlds as well, since it was a binding agency that only expects a military tithe and basic tax load out before leaving the planets be.
3. The Empire has hitches when you staple in the prequels, since the Clone Wars only being three years long isn't really a great way to convey the exhaustion and disgust with the system. There were ten years between Naboo and Geonosis, and it wasn't used well as a structure. You have to dig into secondary books and lore to really see just how many decades of rot, foistered by the Sith and poor decisions made over centuries got the Empire to where it is. It's actually funny, since it's closer to the Imperium in this regard, being a state caused by decline. However it should be noted that again, one lasted in this slow rot, with brief bursts of hope, on scales that match the age of the Old Republic. The empire croaked with the death of just one guy and his apprentice, since it was never meant to last beyond him.
4. Compare the Empire's rapid failure in one generation to the Imperium. Its founder was rendered effectively dead. Over half of his greatest generals, heirs, and administrators died or went mad. His greatest friend and most intelligent normal man and administrator FUCKING DIED. A complete gutting of the admin happened, and guess what happened there. It rallied back, it revived itself, and it took millenia of poor decisions, actual monsters, and outside pressure from outside and within to even force it to buckle. There are good people in the Imperium, one of the most well known guys legitimately has a book series about him. Ciaphas Cain claims that he's simply a filthy coward and cheat, but you can easily see it as a case of him not believing in himself hard enough. Besides the Salamanders chapter of marines, who all willingly throw down their superhuman lives to save normal guys, there are those like the Lamenters, who do the same. And on top of that I personally find the casualty rates in this setting to be closer in scope to actual galactic war than Star Wars, given how hard it is to scale the numbers.
I like each of them for their own reasons. But I will note that my fondness for 40k differs with Star Wars in that I like the sandbox nature you get with the setting and the options to play. Different IP, genre, and style, different reasons. Star Wars does have the superior story simply due to having the main focus on that element of the setting.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
- All is faggot
- Despite the mask, Doomcuck will manage to convey that he is making constant soyface as he revels in his stopped clock moment.
- People will see random memberrries name drops and confuse it for actually building a deep background
- Cope about funding Disney as more abused wives drop the pretense they were pirating
- All those deep important scenes will be forgotten the next time a faggot or nigger sits down to write for Disney
- All will be faggot
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LORD IMPERATOR
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2020
1) The first movie is David vs. Goliath in space. The third movie is the Prodigal Son in space. You have the Jedi preaching compassion and peace, while the Sith lose their souls in the materialistic pursuit of power. The saving power of love is emphasized while the Yin/Yang dichotomy is twisted to serve a Good vs. Evil scenario, instead of Yin and Yang both being positive and needing to be kept in a certain balance. Dude literally took an Eastern way of viewing things and contorted it to fit a Western POV. If the Light and Dark Sides of the Force corresponded to Yin and Yang, the Jedi would preach balance between both, not one destroying the other. A Buddhist point of view this is not.
As for the Prequels, they humiliate the Buddhist idea of detachment; showing it as a NEGATIVE thing that got the Jedi in trouble. Them being so detached from the galaxy's affairs allows the literal Space Hitler/Devil to slowly take control, and their koans of detachment do nothing to allay the worries of their Chosen One, allowing the evil one to turn him against them. They even treat love as an enemy, which caused much grief to their Chosen One. This is how someone from the West would view Buddhist detachment, as it was nowhere near as fucking extreme as the Jedi took it.
And yes, the opinions of Lucas at the time when the Prequels were made were in line with your normie conservative Christian. Bioware had to hide the gay romance in KOTOR lest it get banhammered at a time when religious conservatives ruled (early 2000s) and they saw gays as disgusting. Lucas similarly condemned pornographic SW art just like most religious conservatives, and he even toned down Han Solo from a guy who ruthlessly kills a Mafia extortionist to a dude who only fired a gun because the enemy fired first. Not only did Lucas share more than a few views with his fellow Christians at the time, but even in terms of negatives, he was a moralfag like the rest of them.
2) The Imperium is written the way it is because the fart-huffing fags who wrote it wanted it to represent all the meanies on the Right; be it the military right, the religious right, or the right-wingers in government. Hence why it's nothing but decay; THAT IS NOT NATURAL. Naturally, humanity would progress, evolve, advance, learn from their mistakes, even rediscover lost arts, the way the Medievals rediscovered Greek and Latin science in the Renaissance. Or perhaps they would evolve and advance in a completely different route compared to their predecessors. Like say, one society was reliant on AI, but the next society becomes reliant on bioengineering, and the next relies upon a mix of both. But that's not what we see with 40K's humanity.
Which is funny, since other sci-fi had societies in decay like the Fallout version of America, which was devastated by nuclear fire after the Great War, and yet they STILL advanced their technology despite getting blasted back to the Dark Ages. Even as tribals run around wearing costumes and new states pop up wearing old armor, the Enclave government that's the remnant of the old USA developed new tech that makes the tech of the old world look primitive, from a virus that can kill everyone in the planet, to newer suits of power armor and newer weapons that make the best that the old USA could offer look like a joke. Then you have the Institute, which was one of old-world America's think-tanks, and they manage to create perfect human clones after the Great War.
The difference is, the Enclave and the Institute are written without the fart-huffing British fags who hate religion and have a mistaken idea of it retarding science and keeping everyone stupid.
3) The Prequels pretty much showed how the Republic was too weak to do shit, which in turn, engenders people to want a more stable, efficient government like the Empire. Even without the books, one could see why people would favor the Empire, and when you do bring in the books, everything checks out. Meanwhile, 40K's lore is mostly the books; in fact, most lore nuts tend to ignore the visual stuff like the movies and official animations in favor of the books, and that shit STILL doesn't make sense, to the point where GW had to declare the lore non-canon because fixing the lore would take forever.
4) Rapid fall? If you're referring to the movies, we never truly saw the Empire fall. They lost a couple top guys, sure, but that isn't a fall. The most we saw was a Special Edition scene clumsily bolted onto ROTJ where you have several Outer Rim worlds and Coruscant going on riot, but that doesn't spell the end of the Empire; that's like losing four planets. And those scenes were hastily added because Lucas was tired of all the people saying that the Rebels would be hated by the galaxy for killing the Emperor. But that doesn't mean the Empire fell. Losing four planets and a couple top guys doesn't mean you lost the fucking galaxy.
If we count the movies, and ONLY the movies, for all you know, the Empire got its shit sorted out, they chose new leaders to take the helm, and the war could've gone on for decades, centuries, or even millennia, with no end in sight. Or maybe the Rebels could've been annihilated by another Imperial leader down the line.
If we DO take in the books and the expanded lore, the Empire continued to fight on long after Endor. Hell, by the end of the Star Wars timeline, they're once again the only power worth talking to, since what's left of the Galactic Alliance is just some admiral playing warlord, and the other leader is a Jedi leader with barely any Jedi left.
All the lore about the Empire showed that the Empire continued to fight on long after Endor, and there were times where they would even score victories, like when they took back Coruscant from the New Republic after Thrawn died, or when they successfully drove out the Yuuzhan Vong from their space while the New Republic failed horribly in that regard.
There were even times where the Empire got dangerously close to becoming even stronger than before, like when Jerec almost took control of the Valley of the Jedi, or when the Sith cultists in the Empire almost revived Marka Ragnos. That would've led to the Empire having Sith rulers who could blow up star systems with a mere whisper or thought, and the New Republic would've been crushed horribly.
SW history even got up to the point where the Empire became a part of the very Alliance it once tried to destroy. They became a key member that was reliable in terms of military assistance and political capital; even stuck with the Alliance when some old Alliance veterans wanted to cosplay as the old Confederacy. There's a reason why they're a superpower in the Legacy Era. They never truly fell; they just evolved and advanced.
As for the Imperium, it makes no sense given how many weaknesses they have. Competing powers between church and state, so many Space Marine chapters (that collectively control up to half the Imperium's total military might) doing their own thing, to say nothing of the fact that their communications and FTL are nowhere near as reliable as the Empire's, so some messages and fleets get lost in transit. You could have a planet of the Imperium fall, and nobody in the Administratum knows about it because the message was never sent. At this point, the Imperium only lasts because the writers want them to last.
It makes no sense for an Imperium that's been in total war mode for so long (10K years) to last that long, whereas I can buy the Galactic Republic lasting for twice as long as the Imperium, because there were times of peace and plenty where people aren't just cannon fodder or wage slaves in a factory; they can spread their legs, reproduce, invent new shit, and have golden ages that would ensure the survival and continuation of the state.
A society that's been in total war mode for so long would've collapsed under the weight of all the stress and problems caused by total war, to say nothing of the infighting, the chaos, and the unreliability of their travel and communication systems, things that should be functioning at tip-top shape to even maintain a society at a stable rate.
As for the Prequels, they humiliate the Buddhist idea of detachment; showing it as a NEGATIVE thing that got the Jedi in trouble. Them being so detached from the galaxy's affairs allows the literal Space Hitler/Devil to slowly take control, and their koans of detachment do nothing to allay the worries of their Chosen One, allowing the evil one to turn him against them. They even treat love as an enemy, which caused much grief to their Chosen One. This is how someone from the West would view Buddhist detachment, as it was nowhere near as fucking extreme as the Jedi took it.
And yes, the opinions of Lucas at the time when the Prequels were made were in line with your normie conservative Christian. Bioware had to hide the gay romance in KOTOR lest it get banhammered at a time when religious conservatives ruled (early 2000s) and they saw gays as disgusting. Lucas similarly condemned pornographic SW art just like most religious conservatives, and he even toned down Han Solo from a guy who ruthlessly kills a Mafia extortionist to a dude who only fired a gun because the enemy fired first. Not only did Lucas share more than a few views with his fellow Christians at the time, but even in terms of negatives, he was a moralfag like the rest of them.
2) The Imperium is written the way it is because the fart-huffing fags who wrote it wanted it to represent all the meanies on the Right; be it the military right, the religious right, or the right-wingers in government. Hence why it's nothing but decay; THAT IS NOT NATURAL. Naturally, humanity would progress, evolve, advance, learn from their mistakes, even rediscover lost arts, the way the Medievals rediscovered Greek and Latin science in the Renaissance. Or perhaps they would evolve and advance in a completely different route compared to their predecessors. Like say, one society was reliant on AI, but the next society becomes reliant on bioengineering, and the next relies upon a mix of both. But that's not what we see with 40K's humanity.
Which is funny, since other sci-fi had societies in decay like the Fallout version of America, which was devastated by nuclear fire after the Great War, and yet they STILL advanced their technology despite getting blasted back to the Dark Ages. Even as tribals run around wearing costumes and new states pop up wearing old armor, the Enclave government that's the remnant of the old USA developed new tech that makes the tech of the old world look primitive, from a virus that can kill everyone in the planet, to newer suits of power armor and newer weapons that make the best that the old USA could offer look like a joke. Then you have the Institute, which was one of old-world America's think-tanks, and they manage to create perfect human clones after the Great War.
The difference is, the Enclave and the Institute are written without the fart-huffing British fags who hate religion and have a mistaken idea of it retarding science and keeping everyone stupid.
3) The Prequels pretty much showed how the Republic was too weak to do shit, which in turn, engenders people to want a more stable, efficient government like the Empire. Even without the books, one could see why people would favor the Empire, and when you do bring in the books, everything checks out. Meanwhile, 40K's lore is mostly the books; in fact, most lore nuts tend to ignore the visual stuff like the movies and official animations in favor of the books, and that shit STILL doesn't make sense, to the point where GW had to declare the lore non-canon because fixing the lore would take forever.
4) Rapid fall? If you're referring to the movies, we never truly saw the Empire fall. They lost a couple top guys, sure, but that isn't a fall. The most we saw was a Special Edition scene clumsily bolted onto ROTJ where you have several Outer Rim worlds and Coruscant going on riot, but that doesn't spell the end of the Empire; that's like losing four planets. And those scenes were hastily added because Lucas was tired of all the people saying that the Rebels would be hated by the galaxy for killing the Emperor. But that doesn't mean the Empire fell. Losing four planets and a couple top guys doesn't mean you lost the fucking galaxy.
If we count the movies, and ONLY the movies, for all you know, the Empire got its shit sorted out, they chose new leaders to take the helm, and the war could've gone on for decades, centuries, or even millennia, with no end in sight. Or maybe the Rebels could've been annihilated by another Imperial leader down the line.
If we DO take in the books and the expanded lore, the Empire continued to fight on long after Endor. Hell, by the end of the Star Wars timeline, they're once again the only power worth talking to, since what's left of the Galactic Alliance is just some admiral playing warlord, and the other leader is a Jedi leader with barely any Jedi left.
All the lore about the Empire showed that the Empire continued to fight on long after Endor, and there were times where they would even score victories, like when they took back Coruscant from the New Republic after Thrawn died, or when they successfully drove out the Yuuzhan Vong from their space while the New Republic failed horribly in that regard.
There were even times where the Empire got dangerously close to becoming even stronger than before, like when Jerec almost took control of the Valley of the Jedi, or when the Sith cultists in the Empire almost revived Marka Ragnos. That would've led to the Empire having Sith rulers who could blow up star systems with a mere whisper or thought, and the New Republic would've been crushed horribly.
SW history even got up to the point where the Empire became a part of the very Alliance it once tried to destroy. They became a key member that was reliable in terms of military assistance and political capital; even stuck with the Alliance when some old Alliance veterans wanted to cosplay as the old Confederacy. There's a reason why they're a superpower in the Legacy Era. They never truly fell; they just evolved and advanced.
As for the Imperium, it makes no sense given how many weaknesses they have. Competing powers between church and state, so many Space Marine chapters (that collectively control up to half the Imperium's total military might) doing their own thing, to say nothing of the fact that their communications and FTL are nowhere near as reliable as the Empire's, so some messages and fleets get lost in transit. You could have a planet of the Imperium fall, and nobody in the Administratum knows about it because the message was never sent. At this point, the Imperium only lasts because the writers want them to last.
It makes no sense for an Imperium that's been in total war mode for so long (10K years) to last that long, whereas I can buy the Galactic Republic lasting for twice as long as the Imperium, because there were times of peace and plenty where people aren't just cannon fodder or wage slaves in a factory; they can spread their legs, reproduce, invent new shit, and have golden ages that would ensure the survival and continuation of the state.
A society that's been in total war mode for so long would've collapsed under the weight of all the stress and problems caused by total war, to say nothing of the infighting, the chaos, and the unreliability of their travel and communication systems, things that should be functioning at tip-top shape to even maintain a society at a stable rate.
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- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
Again, you're taking pot shots at an IP you don't understand.
You first choose to try and shift the focus on my points on Star Wars since the "bring balance" aspect and why the Dark Side was imbalanced shows that I at least hold water in my take it's a universal experience and not solely Christian; the new age mysticism was strong in the series since the 1970s and proves it borrows from more than Abrahamic takes on existence. Up to and including a karmic balance among life, and the ability of what are essentially Bodhisattvas coming back to guide others into righteous acts. Star Wars can easily be argued it operates on a Mahayana school of thought due to that and its cosmology. The Dark side's oblivion can be compared to say Sheol or Hell, but it also matches Naraka quite well too.
Also the way the Dark Side operates can also be compared and quite strongly I may add to the refutation of the Four Noble Truths that Siddhama found while meditating. It tries to reject that existence is suffering, it revels in attachment to the ephemeral, and it can never enter the road to leave this suffering. You can also see an example of the Jedi following many elements of the Eightfold path as well, including taking ahmisa at least at an initial stance. Pacifism does not need to be inaction; Ashoka of India is a great example of Buddhists being more than able to throw down.
Also the entire point of attachment was not a refutation of Buddhism; it was to show that the Jedi partially misunderstood how it works, since they by this point were so terrified of failing to always think right that they were terrified of rejecting the Noble Truth of attachment to the ephemeral should not dominate the mind. The lesson was to accept that loss can occur and must be accepted. Obi Wan did so with Qui Gon for example, and the reason they have Padawans leave their knights to attain Mastership is an example of successfully understanding this principle.
And I'd probably not try to say anti-gay sentiment is solely Abrahamic: you can simply see how they are handled in South East and East Asia to note that they weren't really treated better there during the same time period. I'd also argue that Lucas started to only see his setting as kid driven only later on, which would explain his changes and insistence on things too.
And again, you prove your ignorance on 40k by not understanding that during those 10,000 years and before that Humanity did recover and fall more than once. In fact, 30k and the Horus Heresy was a grand attempt to restore and revive Humanity. It was a period of massive progress, recovery of old technology, the creation in some cases of new technology, salvation to numerous worlds from the degraded threats of old night. Many technologies were recovered, and many a world taken from falling to barbarism to a height closer to what once was.
The humanity in this period were in a Silver Age, as by this time the Golden Age was over. The instability of warp travel, robotic revolutions, and a death war with the falling Eldar Empire killed that Federation era of the 20th millenia.
Similar epochs can be found up to the 40th millenium, where new devices finally get released back to the people. These often then fall due to crises that they are forced to weather. For example the Imperium recovered from Horus' rebellion, and then had to weather the greatest Ork WAAAAUUGGGH! seen in years beyond counting. They had Terra bombarded by Orks, good chunks of the Imperium torn apart, and they then had to rebuild from that, which they did mind you. And that was just the first of several such crises.
The madness of Gogh Vandire, the Plague of Unbelief, Religious Wars, and more, and through it all, mankind shows that even in the worst situations it will fight for that new day.
Old and new technology often are found and reforged, if at a slower rate due to the Martian Techpriests, who exist as they are due to an apocalypse ripping through their planet. Their conservatism is a result of technology going awry, as well as the betrayal of alien allies, among other aspects. They do not quite know how or why their machines fully work anymore, mainly because those who did were dead and their records lost.
The system is finally tottering and failing due to internal failings from within and without finally being too much, after centuries of effort to stem the tide, and hold the line. Too many faults inside, too many threats to fight outside.
And I wouldn't necessarily try to brag about progress given Star Wars as an IP can be confirmed to have gone through multiple scenarios that caused galactic civilization to crater and crash. The Rakatan Infinite Empire and its many secrets getting lost, and the similar collapses of the Old Republic to the Sith Empire of Old comes to mind. There's also the matter that it's a setting that has ships that match the Imperium in age, since progress as a whole seems to come in fits and bursts, sometimes lost, and sometimes recovered.
And again, you ignored a very important point during your attempt to knife one setting to make the other one look better. I stated and it can be found that many a world, many a sector, and many a subsector of the Imperium does know and experiences peace. Peace for centuries, hell, a few even for a millenia or two.
You see the ugliest and nastiest part of the setting because guess what medium it started as? A war game.
I reckon Star Wars would've had more grist for the mill if it started life as that too, since that's a very different medium than film.
You first choose to try and shift the focus on my points on Star Wars since the "bring balance" aspect and why the Dark Side was imbalanced shows that I at least hold water in my take it's a universal experience and not solely Christian; the new age mysticism was strong in the series since the 1970s and proves it borrows from more than Abrahamic takes on existence. Up to and including a karmic balance among life, and the ability of what are essentially Bodhisattvas coming back to guide others into righteous acts. Star Wars can easily be argued it operates on a Mahayana school of thought due to that and its cosmology. The Dark side's oblivion can be compared to say Sheol or Hell, but it also matches Naraka quite well too.
Also the way the Dark Side operates can also be compared and quite strongly I may add to the refutation of the Four Noble Truths that Siddhama found while meditating. It tries to reject that existence is suffering, it revels in attachment to the ephemeral, and it can never enter the road to leave this suffering. You can also see an example of the Jedi following many elements of the Eightfold path as well, including taking ahmisa at least at an initial stance. Pacifism does not need to be inaction; Ashoka of India is a great example of Buddhists being more than able to throw down.
Also the entire point of attachment was not a refutation of Buddhism; it was to show that the Jedi partially misunderstood how it works, since they by this point were so terrified of failing to always think right that they were terrified of rejecting the Noble Truth of attachment to the ephemeral should not dominate the mind. The lesson was to accept that loss can occur and must be accepted. Obi Wan did so with Qui Gon for example, and the reason they have Padawans leave their knights to attain Mastership is an example of successfully understanding this principle.
And I'd probably not try to say anti-gay sentiment is solely Abrahamic: you can simply see how they are handled in South East and East Asia to note that they weren't really treated better there during the same time period. I'd also argue that Lucas started to only see his setting as kid driven only later on, which would explain his changes and insistence on things too.
And again, you prove your ignorance on 40k by not understanding that during those 10,000 years and before that Humanity did recover and fall more than once. In fact, 30k and the Horus Heresy was a grand attempt to restore and revive Humanity. It was a period of massive progress, recovery of old technology, the creation in some cases of new technology, salvation to numerous worlds from the degraded threats of old night. Many technologies were recovered, and many a world taken from falling to barbarism to a height closer to what once was.
The humanity in this period were in a Silver Age, as by this time the Golden Age was over. The instability of warp travel, robotic revolutions, and a death war with the falling Eldar Empire killed that Federation era of the 20th millenia.
Similar epochs can be found up to the 40th millenium, where new devices finally get released back to the people. These often then fall due to crises that they are forced to weather. For example the Imperium recovered from Horus' rebellion, and then had to weather the greatest Ork WAAAAUUGGGH! seen in years beyond counting. They had Terra bombarded by Orks, good chunks of the Imperium torn apart, and they then had to rebuild from that, which they did mind you. And that was just the first of several such crises.
The madness of Gogh Vandire, the Plague of Unbelief, Religious Wars, and more, and through it all, mankind shows that even in the worst situations it will fight for that new day.
Old and new technology often are found and reforged, if at a slower rate due to the Martian Techpriests, who exist as they are due to an apocalypse ripping through their planet. Their conservatism is a result of technology going awry, as well as the betrayal of alien allies, among other aspects. They do not quite know how or why their machines fully work anymore, mainly because those who did were dead and their records lost.
The system is finally tottering and failing due to internal failings from within and without finally being too much, after centuries of effort to stem the tide, and hold the line. Too many faults inside, too many threats to fight outside.
And I wouldn't necessarily try to brag about progress given Star Wars as an IP can be confirmed to have gone through multiple scenarios that caused galactic civilization to crater and crash. The Rakatan Infinite Empire and its many secrets getting lost, and the similar collapses of the Old Republic to the Sith Empire of Old comes to mind. There's also the matter that it's a setting that has ships that match the Imperium in age, since progress as a whole seems to come in fits and bursts, sometimes lost, and sometimes recovered.
And again, you ignored a very important point during your attempt to knife one setting to make the other one look better. I stated and it can be found that many a world, many a sector, and many a subsector of the Imperium does know and experiences peace. Peace for centuries, hell, a few even for a millenia or two.
You see the ugliest and nastiest part of the setting because guess what medium it started as? A war game.
I reckon Star Wars would've had more grist for the mill if it started life as that too, since that's a very different medium than film.
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LORD IMPERATOR
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2020
No, I understand the IP perfectly.
You see 40K from the POV of the fans who think the Imperium has to do what it does to survive. The funny thing is, that's their in-universe propaganda. The real issue is, the Imperium is like that because the writers were angry at religious and military conservatives, and so they wrote a faction that represented the worst of both. Of course, down the line, the later authors lost the plot as they just made it about Space Marine power fantasies, kind of like how some SW writers lost the plot about the Light/Dark Freedom/Control plotline and just went with what they felt like. (*cough* Dave Filoni *cough* Karen Traviss *cough*)
Trying to view Star Wars from a Buddhist perspective just ends with the Buddhist scratching his head. The Jedi version of detachment is way too extreme; their views on Light and Dark are irrational, you're supposed to balance out Yin and Yang. Having the Force be restricted to people with special blood makes no sense when everyone technically has ki in the Eastern view. The way the Jedi view detachment as an opposite to love would puzzle many Buddhists, who are fine with detachment, but have no problems with love.
Meanwhile, viewing Star Wars from a western, Christian perspective, everything makes perfect fucking sense. The Force-sensitives aren't just yoga practitioners, they're Maiar with special properties. The Light is Good and the Dark is evil because the former represents compassion and self-control, and the latter represents anger, hate, and giving in to temptation. The Jedi view on detachment is proven to be false; LOVE is what ends up saving people, not detachment, which is in line with the Christian idea that love can save a person from evil, because it is a reflection of the True Love which comes from God, who IS Love. Luke succeeds where Yoda failed, especially when it came to getting Anakin on his side, and that saves the day.
The Death Star is the Goliath to Luke Skywalker's King David. Vader is the Prodigal Son. I can keep going on and on........
Asians have varying ways of handling gays. Shinto Buddhist Japan, for instance, tolerated lesbian relationships to a certain extent, and there's more than a few stories of Buddhist man-boy love that would make even the Catholic priests' sex abuse scandal in the 2000s seem tame by comparison. So no, them treating gays like haram is a very western phenomenon. Sure, modern China might act like gays belong in a concentration camp, but that opinion is not shared by all Asian Buddhist nations. Especially when China today is somewhere between Christian and Communist; both of which are western philosophies, since the CCP eradicated China's historical past in the Great Leap Forward.
I was talking about AFTER 30K and AFTER the Emperor and Horus fought. Naturally, humanity would be able to evolve or advance in their own terms, with or without the Primarchs or the Emperor guiding them. Mankind is naturally resilient and smart. That's why Fallout's fallen society is more logical than 40K's; they're both decayed societies, but human ingenuity is still present in the Enclave and post-Nuclear War America, whereas 40K, they stamp out innovation because the writer wanted to bitch about religion fitting everyone into a mold and burning people at the stake for trying to move out of it.
In 10K years, mankind would've been able to invent newer technology, instead of just repeating old notes. Or, they'd be able to make the old tech in a more efficient way, to the point where what used to be for special forces in 30K would be standard equipment in 40K. For example, remember Han Solo's special hyperdrive which can go 0.5 past lightspeed? In SWTOR, 3700 years before the films, that was a superweapon that can only be created and used by the highest-ranking officials in the Sith Empire. In the OT era, some dickweed who has debts from the Space Mafia can afford to buy and attach such a hyperdrive to an ugly old Corellian freighter.
Just like how back then, human soldiers had special units with crossbows and muskets, and now, most human soldiers have assault rifles. So too should the Imperial Guard in 30K march into battle with lasguns, but by 40K, they'd have phased out the lasguns and mass-produced plasma weapons that they've figured out how to make stable and NOT explode while being used. An IG unit would've run screaming in fear at the sight of Black Legion Space Marines in 30K, but in 40K, they'd react to the same Space Marines with laughter while they bust out the mass-produced plasma guns and effortlessly burn said Space Marines with a hail of plasma fire.
I mean, shit, even the Star Wars movies showed this tech progression. In the Prequels, things were mostly peaceful, and most wars were local affairs. Blasters were at best, laser bullets, as we see in Phantom Menace. But after the chaos of the Clone Wars and the Rise of the Empire, the blaster shots in movies like A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are like small grenades in plasma bolt form. A blaster shot in TPM would just hit like a ping onto a cheap-ass battle droid, as if the thing was hit by a bullet, whereas a blaster shot in ESB would blow a high-end droid like Threepio into pieces.
As for the Rakatans, their tech was lost because they required the use of the Force. So even if it was found, only the Jedi and Sith would be able to use it, and the Jedi would probably destroy it because it's of the Dark side.
Not to mention that, unlike 40K, which is on a total war mode 100% of the time, Star Wars has times of peace that last for hundreds, if not thousands of years, so people can get complacent and military secrets can get lost. Whereas a total war society like the Imperium should be continuously innovating and developing new tech, because their survival depends upon it. Just look at what happened to US when the World Wars and the Cold War hit. Look at all the technological innovations that came about because we were trying to keep up with the other guy to stay on top. Nuclear power, space travel, the FUCKING INTERNET. And the Imperium of Man is in an even more dire situation than us. They should be innovating up the butthole to keep up with all the threats they face.
Star Wars started off as a dark sci-fi story where characters were burned into skeletons, lightsabers didn't cauterize blood from wounds, and main characters will ruthlessly kill to stay alive. Then Lucas settled down, got soft, and wanted to sell Star Wars to kids, so he made it more kid-friendly.
Warhammer 40K, for the longest time, was made for adults, by adults, and only adults could afford those model kits. So their art and stories remained dark and for adults until recently, when kids started getting into things like microtransaction video games, making God knows how many millions of dollars, which explains why Games Workshop is slowly trying to kiddy-fy Warhammer 40K and Fantasy to get kids who have daddy's credit card on hand.
You see 40K from the POV of the fans who think the Imperium has to do what it does to survive. The funny thing is, that's their in-universe propaganda. The real issue is, the Imperium is like that because the writers were angry at religious and military conservatives, and so they wrote a faction that represented the worst of both. Of course, down the line, the later authors lost the plot as they just made it about Space Marine power fantasies, kind of like how some SW writers lost the plot about the Light/Dark Freedom/Control plotline and just went with what they felt like. (*cough* Dave Filoni *cough* Karen Traviss *cough*)
Trying to view Star Wars from a Buddhist perspective just ends with the Buddhist scratching his head. The Jedi version of detachment is way too extreme; their views on Light and Dark are irrational, you're supposed to balance out Yin and Yang. Having the Force be restricted to people with special blood makes no sense when everyone technically has ki in the Eastern view. The way the Jedi view detachment as an opposite to love would puzzle many Buddhists, who are fine with detachment, but have no problems with love.
Meanwhile, viewing Star Wars from a western, Christian perspective, everything makes perfect fucking sense. The Force-sensitives aren't just yoga practitioners, they're Maiar with special properties. The Light is Good and the Dark is evil because the former represents compassion and self-control, and the latter represents anger, hate, and giving in to temptation. The Jedi view on detachment is proven to be false; LOVE is what ends up saving people, not detachment, which is in line with the Christian idea that love can save a person from evil, because it is a reflection of the True Love which comes from God, who IS Love. Luke succeeds where Yoda failed, especially when it came to getting Anakin on his side, and that saves the day.
The Death Star is the Goliath to Luke Skywalker's King David. Vader is the Prodigal Son. I can keep going on and on........
Asians have varying ways of handling gays. Shinto Buddhist Japan, for instance, tolerated lesbian relationships to a certain extent, and there's more than a few stories of Buddhist man-boy love that would make even the Catholic priests' sex abuse scandal in the 2000s seem tame by comparison. So no, them treating gays like haram is a very western phenomenon. Sure, modern China might act like gays belong in a concentration camp, but that opinion is not shared by all Asian Buddhist nations. Especially when China today is somewhere between Christian and Communist; both of which are western philosophies, since the CCP eradicated China's historical past in the Great Leap Forward.
I was talking about AFTER 30K and AFTER the Emperor and Horus fought. Naturally, humanity would be able to evolve or advance in their own terms, with or without the Primarchs or the Emperor guiding them. Mankind is naturally resilient and smart. That's why Fallout's fallen society is more logical than 40K's; they're both decayed societies, but human ingenuity is still present in the Enclave and post-Nuclear War America, whereas 40K, they stamp out innovation because the writer wanted to bitch about religion fitting everyone into a mold and burning people at the stake for trying to move out of it.
In 10K years, mankind would've been able to invent newer technology, instead of just repeating old notes. Or, they'd be able to make the old tech in a more efficient way, to the point where what used to be for special forces in 30K would be standard equipment in 40K. For example, remember Han Solo's special hyperdrive which can go 0.5 past lightspeed? In SWTOR, 3700 years before the films, that was a superweapon that can only be created and used by the highest-ranking officials in the Sith Empire. In the OT era, some dickweed who has debts from the Space Mafia can afford to buy and attach such a hyperdrive to an ugly old Corellian freighter.
Just like how back then, human soldiers had special units with crossbows and muskets, and now, most human soldiers have assault rifles. So too should the Imperial Guard in 30K march into battle with lasguns, but by 40K, they'd have phased out the lasguns and mass-produced plasma weapons that they've figured out how to make stable and NOT explode while being used. An IG unit would've run screaming in fear at the sight of Black Legion Space Marines in 30K, but in 40K, they'd react to the same Space Marines with laughter while they bust out the mass-produced plasma guns and effortlessly burn said Space Marines with a hail of plasma fire.
I mean, shit, even the Star Wars movies showed this tech progression. In the Prequels, things were mostly peaceful, and most wars were local affairs. Blasters were at best, laser bullets, as we see in Phantom Menace. But after the chaos of the Clone Wars and the Rise of the Empire, the blaster shots in movies like A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are like small grenades in plasma bolt form. A blaster shot in TPM would just hit like a ping onto a cheap-ass battle droid, as if the thing was hit by a bullet, whereas a blaster shot in ESB would blow a high-end droid like Threepio into pieces.
As for the Rakatans, their tech was lost because they required the use of the Force. So even if it was found, only the Jedi and Sith would be able to use it, and the Jedi would probably destroy it because it's of the Dark side.
Not to mention that, unlike 40K, which is on a total war mode 100% of the time, Star Wars has times of peace that last for hundreds, if not thousands of years, so people can get complacent and military secrets can get lost. Whereas a total war society like the Imperium should be continuously innovating and developing new tech, because their survival depends upon it. Just look at what happened to US when the World Wars and the Cold War hit. Look at all the technological innovations that came about because we were trying to keep up with the other guy to stay on top. Nuclear power, space travel, the FUCKING INTERNET. And the Imperium of Man is in an even more dire situation than us. They should be innovating up the butthole to keep up with all the threats they face.
Star Wars started off as a dark sci-fi story where characters were burned into skeletons, lightsabers didn't cauterize blood from wounds, and main characters will ruthlessly kill to stay alive. Then Lucas settled down, got soft, and wanted to sell Star Wars to kids, so he made it more kid-friendly.
Warhammer 40K, for the longest time, was made for adults, by adults, and only adults could afford those model kits. So their art and stories remained dark and for adults until recently, when kids started getting into things like microtransaction video games, making God knows how many millions of dollars, which explains why Games Workshop is slowly trying to kiddy-fy Warhammer 40K and Fantasy to get kids who have daddy's credit card on hand.
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- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
Rizzikin Skywalker would mog you.
LORD IMPERATOR
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2020
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2017
Did you see this Variety article (written by Abigail Lee) about Kelly Marie Tran calling Star Wars fans racists again?
(Archived Article)
(Archived Article)
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
Given how they're clearly trying to relitigate a time where they had better reader numbers and were further away from bankruptcy, not really. I didn't even realize that LFL and Variety were so desperate for optics and numbers that they did this until you linked this.
Maybe LFL should put the effort in making fake racist attacks and money into failing companies into hiring competent people that at least aren't malicious. I know journos are cheaper than craigslist whores, so like they'd need to pay more, but the people they pay to run ops like this could be let go too, and you'd then pay the union writer better. I mean they might accidentally make a second Andor or something if they did that.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2021
Lego and Disney continuing the trend of "we can't say the name of that one ship in Star Wars".
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2024
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2022
Lol there's a 3 and a half hour video defending the trans clone trooper.
Kharash
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2022
Funny how this keeps happening because just like with John Boyega what I remember is Ryan Johnson catching all the flak instead of the actors. Only for them to throw the fans under the bus anyway.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2024
I see the usual SJW buzzwords: come out, queer, racism. Blaming Star Wars fans again is so old news and pathetic. I hope she enjoys her ever-declining relevance.
I'd be bitter too if my character in a movie sucked so much that my action figures were collecting dust for a long time in stores, even being discounted to a dollar and being given away as a Valentine's Day gift didn't work at all.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2022
I do a check of a nearby Ollie's every couple of months:
This pilgrimage is my only way of appreciating Star Wars when all that's left is schadenfreude.
My store doesn't have Rose left but there's still plenty of Holdos, plus a smattering of all recent Black Series figures and a wide selection of simple toys based on that recent animated show - I can't even keep track of all the drek Disney spits out to it's ever-contracting audience.
This pilgrimage is my only way of appreciating Star Wars when all that's left is schadenfreude.